Head on with a cop!

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

So I'm driving on the back roads behind my house. I have my new GF in the passenger seat and we are just going to Starbucks and I wanted to take the fun route there rather than the paved road. I'm coming around a blind turn that I've mastered the fishtail on and "bam".. A SVPD black and white is coming around the same turn. I slam on my breaks and so does he. His car stops on a dime and mine grinds to a halt into his brush guard- battering ram on his front bumper. It's a very surreal feeling to get in a car accident with a cop. We get out and check damage and he calls the highway patrol to make a report and half the police force shows up to stand around to see the big show.I think the funny part for me was with all those cops not one asked me if I'd been drinking! I had 4 cocktails on the beach about 5 hours before and a big meal so I was most likely under the limit but seems like something a small army of cops might ask? The other funny thing, a cop called me yesterday, 3 days after the collision and asked me my insurance policy number. I gave them all my info including that and no one wrote it down? I must admit the cops were very cool, probably nicer than if I got in a fender bender with a civilian but I was a little surprised by the lack of police work they did regarding me smacking into one of them head on!
So my beloved VX is at the body shop with an estimated repair cost of just under 3 grand. The front driver side cladding was compromised and my front fender will need to be replaced. They were able to find new parts for everything and I had full coverage on my car and the cop car of course as well. I guess I was hoping for a bit of advice or helpful hints about dealing with the body shop as far as things to look for and be aware of from other members who have had front end body work. Any thing I should be looking out for?

[LittleBeast]

I would suggest not admitting on a public forum that you were under the influence while driving. I am not a police officer but we do have members on the force here. I also would suggest never driving if you have had something to drink. I have lost family members to A-holes like you that think just a drink or two will not impair your driving. If you know me I never call names, but this is one thing I am passionate about and I would definitely get in your face in person on this one. No excuse for having a few drinks and driving, grow up and do not post your shortcomings/illegal activity on a public forum.

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

I had a few drinks at noon.. The incident was like at 7 o'clock at at night and I had a big dinner and did not feel the least bit impaired. A good half day had gone by so I don't think alcohol was a contributing factor in this crash or I'd hope a small army of cops would be able to assess that! It must have been the pound of cocaine I snorted after I smoked some joints after the glue I was sniffing after dinner!

[TheGanzman]

I had a few drinks at noon.. The incident was like at 7 o'clock at at night and I had a big dinner and did not feel the least bit impaired. A good half day had gone by so I don't think alcohol was a contributing factor in this crash or I'd hope a small army of cops would be able to assess that! It must have been the pound of cocaine I snorted after I smoked some joints after the glue I was sniffing after dinner!

See - THERE's your mistake! If you had just had a shot of heroin before you left, you would have been all calm, and not tried to take that corner like a hotshot! Let this be a lesson to you!;)

[nfpgasmask]

That almost happened to me on a trail once, except with a Sandrail and not a cop. We missed hitting eachother by an inch or so....

Bart

[LittleBeast]

It is really sad that you think that driving under the influence of anything is a joking matter. Maybe one day your perspective will change, I hope it will not be because of the terrible consequences of driving impaired, but I am glad your true feelings about driving under the influence have come out due to your joking tone and immature approach to a serious and illegal activity. One day you might grow up, I hope it doesn't take a death by a drunk driver in your family to do it, but sadly it seems that it might.

[vt_maverick]

A nonfactor apparently worth mentioning in a "Wow I may have gotten away with it" manner. Totally not a big deal at all, which is why I mentioned it. But why are you mentioning it? I mean it's not a big deal - but let me joke about it some more.

As for advice: I assume your VX isn't driveable? If it is you should let multiple body shops assess the damage, and if it isn't there's not a lot you can do other than to take it to a different shop after the repairs are done to make sure it was done correctly.

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

See - THERE's your mistake! If you had just had a shot of heroin before you left, you would have been all calm, and not tried to take that corner like a hotshot! Let this be a lesson to you!;)

I agree... But seriously I was sober at the time of the accident.I had 4 of those little club cocktails on the beach that day, ate a subway sandwich down there, and then a big sushi dinner a few more hours went by then got in my car. I was not stumbling or slurring my words and I was sober as a judge at the time of the crash. At least 6 hours had gone by since my last drink and I had lunch and dinner. The cop taking the report was close enough to me to smell alcohol if I was emitting it, but I was shocked he did not ask me " have you had anything to drink today ? " I would think that would be a standard question and I would have gladly took a field sobriety test if asked. I also agree with the previous post that drunk driving sucks and kills people and think drinking and driving is a serious crime! Did I have drinks earlier that day.. Yes.. Was I impaired at the time of the collision... No

[tom4bren]

I'll not comment about driving under the influence. I don't do it & I don't condone it. I'll take your word that ALL effects had worn off.

I'll also not comment on fish-tailing around blind curves ... just doesn't seem like a good idea to me. Let me guess - it's the first time you've EVER seen another vehicle on that road.

I will wish you good luck on your repairs. The only thing that I'll comment on is that the replaced cladding will probably not match the old. May want to check to see if insurance will pay for any kind of restoration process on the plastic to get them to match.

Before it goes to the paint booth, see if you can inspect the repairs & look particularly at the interface points (like hood to fender, & door to fender seams) to make sure they are all straight and true.

I'm guessing that they'll inspect the frame for bending & perform an alignment. If they don't, insist on it.

[BigSwede]

You can, on average, metabolize about a drink an hour. So in the circumstances you describe, you probably were not impaired...by alcohol anyway. Not sure about the sushi.

[circmand]

I was once in a vehicle accident with the small town's mayor. He pulled out in front of me when he had a stop sign and I did not. The cops never even questioned who was at fault, the mayor was not pleased.
On the other subject of driving under the Influence. You should not do it. Because by the time you fdeel it you are way pass the legal limit. I doubt you had any effects left but the DUI laws as opposed to safety all all about revenue and political appeasement of a powerful voting bloc. You want safety pass the DUI law sure, but also distracted driving with cell phones that studies show are just as bad as DUI. Pass laws against driving tired or eating while driving or reading and/or watching TV. Require old people who have had an accident (or anyone really) since they last renewed their licenses to retake the entire test to see if they should still be driving. Require people who buy an RV to get a license for the 34 foot vehicle and tow car they have never driven before. Why do motorcyclists need a special license but Rvers do not? Speaking of motorcylists require a helmet if they expect medical treatment after an accident. How about seat belts on school and metro buses? All of these things factor into safety but only a small segment of people who can be made out as scapegoats are the ones paying. I hate for anyone to lose a family menber to a drunk driver but would you feel any better if it had been a teen on a cell phone or an old person who should no longer be driving? But politicians do not want AARP on their butts so let the old people who cant see past their hood still drive.

[JAMAS]

I had 4 cocktails on the beach about 5 hours before and a big meal so I was most likely under the limit but seems like something a small army of cops might ask?

I believe there was a misreading/misunderstanding that is causing all of this hullabaloo....I added what I believe to be the misread phrase in red

There are several things that factor into the alcohol metabolic rate, but I think its usually its roughly 1 hour to 1 drink for the inebriation to go away.

I could be wrong, but that's my educated guess.

[Osteomata]

Well thank god we have identified an entire area of human behavior that is off limits to joking, and pointed it out in a deeply moralizing manner.

[circmand]

Well thank god we have identified an entire area of human behavior that is off limits to joking, and pointed it out in a deeply moralizing manner.

One area, You cant joke about women, blacks, or any minority, You cant joke about the rich, the fat, the stupid, or the unemployed, Also dont make fun of old, the children, or the mentally disabled. Its wrong to make fun of criminals, religion or politics. Hell except for white males and smokers and the Nascar you cant make fun of nothing

[FlyingV77]

you also forgot about the weight of the person. that 1 drink 1 hour rule, also states per 100 lbs of the person. or thats what the TABC says.

so if your 200 lbs, you can in theroy have 2 drinks per hour...

as for any advice, claim it was the cops fault and say you have back and neck pain. cops are always driving distracted, and often drunk.

have fun with your potential winfall!

[vt_maverick]

The 1 drink per hour rule is actually a huge myth, as FlyingV77 said it varies by weight but also greatly by what's in your drink. The rule as most people quote it applies to a 3% ABV can of beer, NOT a cocktail or mixed drink.

Good reading:

http://www.seattle-duiattorney.com/blog/one-drink-per-hour-rule-to-avoid-a-holiday-dui/

[FlyingV77]

3% beer?!? Are you from oklahoma?
Real beer is 5-6% or more!
Here it based on a 12oz beer or a shot from a 7/8 jigger of 80 proof.

[RickOKC]

The 1 drink per hour rule is actually a huge myth, as FlyingV77 said it varies by weight but also greatly by what's in your drink. The rule as most people quote it applies to a 3% ABV can of beer, NOT a cocktail or mixed drink.

Good reading:

http://www.seattle-duiattorney.com/blog/one-drink-per-hour-rule-to-avoid-a-holiday-dui/
Thanks for that message, VT!

I was going to stay out of this, but....

The BIGGEST issue (that nobody likes to hear) is that our bodies are all different and we metabolize alcohol differently. One drink per hour is an AVERAGE, not "The A Rule Set In Stone That Applies To Everybody"... it's an AVERAGE. My workmates and I chipped in for a cheapie breath analyzer and the the results were surprising. I learned that if I drink half a 3.2 beer every hour, my BAC is about .06! That's DUI country. My buddy down the hall weighed the same but a full beer per hour put him at .03. That would still earn a DWI.

Available choices:
* Spend $40 for a tester and learn your limit
* Ignore everything you don't want to hear and make a guess.

Scared the hell out of us. We used to all get together for a couple beers on Friday after work - that ended immediately! And before someone accuses me of encouraging people to "dodge the system," let me assure you that's not my intent. I just can't imagine that anyone who knows the facts about their own personal limit would ever consider driving after consuming any alcohol at all. Ignorance is bliss, reality is frightening!

[FlyingV77]

Those meaters can be off. Thry this experament. Have some one drink a few shots or gargel with some mothwash that contains alcihol. Have him blow into the breathalizer. Then hand it off to someone who hasent had anything to drink. What you find out may surprise you!
Cops down here know about this and have set up sober people and desinated drivers...

[VXR]

Require people who buy an RV to get a license for the 34 foot vehicle and tow car they have never driven before. Why do motorcyclists need a special license but Rvers do not?

X2


You cant joke about women, blacks, or any minority, You cant joke about the rich, the fat, the stupid, or the unemployed, Also dont make fun of old, the children, or the mentally disabled. Its wrong to make fun of criminals, religion or politics. Hell except for white males and smokers and the Nascar you cant make fun of nothing

and X2 with a :thumbup:

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

Heres a cool fact ... Women do not have an enzyme men have for breaking down alcohol. So if a man and woman who weigh the same drink the same amount the woman will be F'd up longer and stronger than the man. Candy is dandy but liqour is quicker!

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

Heres another cool fact, those dumb cops forgot to write down my insurance policy number.. This cop must be the laughing stock of his department.. Isn't that like car accident 101? He keeps calling but in the spirit of rebellion I'm gonna ditch his calls for a while.. I was fully insured but cops have made my life hell over stupid sht like window tint and my VXs bluish lighting ... I'm calling it payback!

[BigSwede]

Thanks for that message, VT!
The BIGGEST issue (that nobody likes to hear) is that our bodies are all different and we metabolize alcohol differently. One drink per hour is an AVERAGE, not "The A Rule Set In Stone That Applies To Everybody"... it's an AVERAGE.
As I said, on average...

[ZEUS]

Damn Wasabi, that sucks! That almost happened to me once in high school before I even drank. I would cover this loop in an undeveloped area and was on my 3rd or 4th lap of the day. Luckily, I had a gut feeling before going into this one last drift and I slowed way down. Right then a cop came around the corner.

Good luck with the repair! I think Mark Hardeman has a lead on a stronger bumper unit that goes behind the cladding. If yours needs replaced, perhaps check into what Mark has to say...

[LittleBeast]

Heres another cool fact, those dumb cops forgot to write down my insurance policy number.. This cop must be the laughing stock of his department.. Isn't that like car accident 101? He keeps calling but in the spirit of rebellion I'm gonna ditch his calls for a while.. I was fully insured but cops have made my life hell over stupid sht like window tint and my VXs bluish lighting ... I'm calling it payback!

Wasabi, after hearing all the details sounds like alcohol was a none factor, that is good to hear. I am also glad you and everyone involved is safe, I am sorry for my first few posts being a little A-hole-ish, but dui is something that hits close to home and I get fired up as you can notice. I think it was just that your first message came across as if you had gotten away with something, just like this last message trying to stick it to the police. That is just not the way I see things. I am sure this specific police officer had little to nothing to do with your minor problems with window tint and colored lighting, and if we have problems with legislation or how it is enforced that is why we have freedom of speech and petitions and our ability to vote. I appreciate and commend the service our policemen do for us even though every once and a while I feel like they screwed me over on a ticket or something, when push comes to shove I am very proud of our system. Is it perfect? No as many of you have pointed out. But we are free, and spoiled compared to the rest of the world.

In short sorry for my first rant I am glad alcohol was not a factor, and I hope you get everything sorted out with the repairs :-)

[VXR]

if we have problems with legislation or how it is enforced that is why we have freedom of speech and petitions and our ability to vote

:laughing:

[LittleBeast]

:laughing:

I really hope you are not laughing at the freedoms that our forefathers fought and died for, and our service men and women are still risking their lives to ensure we retain.

[VXR]

I really hope you are not laughing at the freedoms that our forefathers fought and died for

absolutely not I respect and admire them I am laughing at the fact that you believe the their system is still in place and working:yesb:

[LittleBeast]

absolutely not I respect and admire them I am laughing at the fact that you believe the their system is still in place and working:yesb:

It is slowly being taken out from under our feet because we have not appreciated it and we have not used the system at all. Although those in power are trying their best to not honor the Constitution it is our duty as voters to give them a wake up call and remind them of our foundations. It is not a perfect system nor will any system that has people involved in it, but it is still the best in the world.

[VXR]

It is slowly being taken out from under our feet because we have not appreciated it and we have not used the system at all. Although those in power are trying their best to not honor the Constitution it is our duty as voters to give them a wake up call and remind them of our foundations. It is not a perfect system nor will any system that has people involved in it, but it is still the best in the world.

X2:yesb:

[FlyingV77]

The 3 box rule....
To be used in this order
1 the balot box
2 the soap box
3 the ammo box

[Osteomata]

The 3 box rule....
To be used in this order
1 the balot box
2 the soap box
3 the ammo box

Wait... shouldn't there be soap box usage before the elections? And.. what if you have to use an ammo box as your soap box due to a general... soap box shortage? So the order could be completely reversed!

[Marlin]

absolutely not I respect and admire them I am laughing at the fact that you believe the their system is still in place and working:yesb:

x2. Once we started giving our money away to "citizens" and non citizens alike, receiving nothing in return, we lost our way completely. We have the illusion of freedom. Are you really free? Tell me something that you are actually free to do, without a license, permission, constraints and so on....nothing. Can't even drive the vehicle that I own without paying fees, getting a license, following other's rules and so on.

Keep on believing in freedom, the NWO is counting on it. I am counting on Box #3 coming into play very soon, after all, it is what our country was founded on.

[FlyingV77]

the soap box meaning protests, for when the elceted officals ignore the voters. I forgot to includd the jury box. For jurry nulifacation. Ment to be used by the people to nulify bs laws.... can't belive I messed up that bad on that post.

[FlyingV77]

So the path of the boxes would be like this.
Elect some one or a group, they ignor the will of the people so they protest. If they contine to ignore the will of the people then jurrys can nulify laws. If that still doesn't work and elceted offical continue to ignor the people revolt.
The government knows this and is takeing this prosses away. Gun bans. Lawyers get didbared if they mention jurry nullifcation. "Free speach zones". And lastly making the votes not count..... has that ever happen?

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

I'd like to know why my car front ending a cop has become a political thread?
I don't know what the cops are like in your town but in my town they are not there to " protect and serve" as much as to bolster my local economy be writing as many ridiculous tickets as possible to bolster my town and state with it's sagging economy!
Now that no one is working, income taxes are down.. Anyone wanna guess how towns, counties and states gonna make up for that lost income?
By bilking the citizens with exorbitant fees garnered from more tickets and raising your licensing and registration fees.
If it gets any worse I'm gonna be like mad max on the road ,

[ZEUS]

Wasabi, I remember a time when you would not post anything unless it was politically related so it kinda seems natural that it would go this way. However, since there is a democrat in office and things still suck your tone and approach seem to be waaaaay different.

[HOT_WASABI_JUNKIE]

Wasabi, I remember a time when you would not post anything unless it was politically related so it kinda seems natural that it would go this way. However, since there is a democrat in office and things still suck your tone and approach seem to be waaaaay different.


If I made sandwiches for 8 years, do you really think you could eat them all in two years?
I doubt it.
GWB dropped a steamy ton of bowel movement in Obamas lap and now he hides out safely behind his ranch gates. Obama has not been what I hoped for, I think he should have addressed the economy before healthcare and did not deserve a Nobel peace prize just for being black.
I really don't think McCain/Palin would have changed this country for the better either.
If McCain was too dumb to pick a suitable, non mentally challenged running mate he has no business in the oval office, ESPECIALLY at his age.

[FlyingV77]

It was jut the dems turn to win... THEY are the ones that run things. The repubicans and demoraps are two sides of the same coin

[VXR]

The repubicans and demoraps are two sides of the same coin

X2:yesb:

[tom4bren]

Just read this thread from front to back.

DANG ... there's 10 minutes of my life that I'll never get back.

At least I had the freedom to waste it on whatever I chose.

[circmand]

If I made sandwiches for 8 years, do you really think you could eat them all in two years?
I doubt it.
GWB dropped a steamy ton of bowel movement in Obamas lap and now he hides out safely behind his ranch gates. Obama has not been what I hoped for, I think he should have addressed the economy before healthcare and did not deserve a Nobel peace prize just for being black.
I really don't think McCain/Palin would have changed this country for the better either.
If McCain was too dumb to pick a suitable, non mentally challenged running mate he has no business in the oval office, ESPECIALLY at his age.

BO has not only eaten 8 years of sandwiches in 2 years he wants another 8 years worth for the next 2 years as well. I do not see how you continue to blame GWB for the way things are considering when BO took office we were better off in every way of measurement. It was only the last 2 years of GWB term when the Democrats won the house and Senate that things started getting worse and that was because the Democrats won the House and Senate. Then when BO got there they had all 3 levels and things got even worse.

[BigSwede]

Reagan started this runaway deficit train and the Bushs continued to push it down the track. Obama has made the deficit worse, out of desperation when the economy nearly went over the edge due to Republican deregulation of Wall Street. IMO he has barely had a chance to do anything but react to existing problems.

That's the way it looks from here anyway. And I am not a Democrat.

[circmand]

Reagan started this runaway deficit train and the Bushs continued to push it down the track. Obama has made the deficit worse, out of desperation when the economy nearly went over the edge due to Republican deregulation of Wall Street. IMO he has barely had a chance to do anything but react to existing problems.

That's the way it looks from here anyway. And I am not a Democrat.

Given the shape liberal MN is in. Did all the wrong things in the state that the liberals in DC did. Then the people get all upset at the person trying to fix it because now the piper needs paid for years of bad policy. Are you aware that during BOs tenure unemployment and underemployment is over 16%? And that duringthat same period the Federal Government not only got larger but the number of people making over $100,000 a year increased dramatically? You solve the deficit by spending less not more. The percentage of taxes compared to the GNP is at the highest it's ever been and the solution is to make it higher? Thats what the liberals are saying. Of course more government control and government spending is their solution to everything from skyhigh unemployment to failing schools. A recent study actually shows the rate of turnover in Govt jobs is less than 1%. Anything less than 3% is keeping worthless employees.

[Osteomata]

It strikes me as unnecessarily simplisitc, even absurd, to lay the annual budget deficits and long term national debt at the feet of either, rather than both, modern national parties and their leadership. Both parties are spend mad, just generally on different things, although they are both willing to bleed us all for the projects and line items that support their own reelection bids. Both parties also have minority voices that have long called for fiscal sanity and even been willing to make potentially dangerous (in terms of reelection) concessions to get it, although they clearly approach how to get there from different revenue and expenditure perspectives.

I think my conservative friends tend to downplay the danger that two groups of freshmen GOP House members represent: those who believe that defaulting on the national debt is actually not a bad thing, and the less crazy but unreasonable ones that will not exchange in negotiation even slight revenue increases in exchange for significant spending cuts, say a 75/25 percent split.
AND
I think my progressive and liberal friends too quickly paint the entire tea party with a crazy brush for their insistance on addressing a very real and dangerous long term fiscal solvency problem, when it is continueing with the status quo of the last couple of decades that is the true path of insanity.

As for BO himself, his economic model is pretty mainstream, and the majority of professional economists do seem to think that stimulus during recession is, if not the ideal, then at least pretty defensible as a tactic. I think the "cars for clunkers" was incredibly stupid from any perspective other than "we all like free stuff", but the majority of his budget and monetary policies have been pretty mainstream, hardly controversial at all outside of the amplified arena of partisan politics.

The future national debt problem is solvable with significant defense cuts, raising the social security retirement age by two years phased in starting a few years from now, and medicare means testing. Get the GOP to go along with the first, the Dems the last, and good luck with the middle one. But all three will be required.

[vt_maverick]

Yeah! It's time for Political Buzzword Bingo! We're off to a good start but here's some phrases we're still missing:

Dick Cheney, Gitmo, Big Corporations, birth certificate, defense spending, Pelosi, 9/11, Patriot Act, bail-out, ObamaCare, Bush (now Obama) tax cuts

Mix those in with some sweeping generalizations and overall blamestorming and you've got our "national dialogue." ;puke:

I'll throw one in though that I do personally believe in. For most Democrats and a lot of other folks there is NOTHING that Barack Obama can do wrong that wasn't either completely or in large part caused by George W Bush. I wonder if those same folks would give John McCain the same pass.

[circmand]

Yeah! It's time for Political Buzzword Bingo! We're off to a good start but here's some phrases we're still missing:

Dick Cheney, Gitmo, Big Corporations, birth certificate, defense spending, Pelosi, 9/11, Patriot Act, bail-out, ObamaCare, Bush (now Obama) tax cuts

Mix those in with some sweeping generalizations and overall blamestorming and you've got our "national dialogue." ;puke:

I'll throw one in though that I do personally believe in. For most Democrats and a lot of other folks there is NOTHING that Barack Obama can do wrong that wasn't either completely or in large part caused by George W Bush. I wonder if those same folks would give John McCain that same pass.

I would settle for them explaining how GWB was both totally incompetant yet able to fool everybody to do everything he wanted them to. While at the same time creating Hurricane Katrina

[tom4bren]

Downsizing the military can help to lower the deficit but will play havoc on the economy. Imagine if you will, a Government ban of the fast food industry. It would have a similar effect on the economy/unemployment.

Remember BO's plan to help the deficit by freezing the DOD Civilian pay? In approximately 10 years, it could defray approximately 2% of the deficit. Now that's affirmative action for ya.

Yah, it's a sore spot for me ... I are one.

[Scott Larson]

Did any of you guys hear about Hot Wasabi Junkie having a head-on with a cop?:p

[Osteomata]

I here you Tom, and yet the majority of the realisitc defense spending roll backs involve savings from less interventionist policies, winding down Afghanistan and Iraq troop levels, and some focused acquistioin cuts. "Downsize the military" is a phased in item that would wreak havok with the economy no more than "downsize the medical care industry" and less than "not doing anything other than kicking the can down the road" until the debt is unsustainable as a percentage of GDP. Since US national defense spending accounts for about 42% of world defense spending and that we spend more than the vast majority of other countries combined, its hard for me not to see this is one of the areas that we will need to cut if we really want to get a handle on the national debt. Given that I work with DOD civilians every day, I am sympathetic to complaints about pay freezes, but if inflation is nearly non existant why shouldn't DoD pay be frozen in an era where you have a very secure job with pay levels that arguable rose during the recession and overall size of the federal civilian employee job pool also rose? 2% is not a lot, but it is a statistically significant number and a non-permanant pay index freeze could be part of a larger package.

[vt_maverick]

Because whatever savings it creates are, as Tom said, minor and highly debatable. Remember that freezing pay isn't just a matter of dollars and cents; you do that long enough and your best young talent will leave the civilian sector to work for private contractors, who will charge the government significantly more for that person's knowledge and skill sets. On the other hand we spend RIDICULOUS amounts of money on pet weapons and systems projects that are years and hundreds of millions of dollars behind schedule. You want to squeeze the DoD budget in a substantial way? Make commands justify every line item of their budget and provide harsh accountability for overbudget and overschedule projects.

I'm telling you from first-hand knowledge that the potential there is MUCH better than 2%.

[VXR]

Remember that freezing pay isn't just a matter of dollars and cents; you do that long enough and your best young talent will leave the civilian sector to work for private contractors

Only if those contractors are hiring:yesb:

[vt_maverick]

It's a shell game. You piss off a guy at your Agency A, I hire him for a project over at Command B, when that contract is up in 6-12 months I sell him back to you for 2x his prior hourly rate. Squeezing salaries is like turning the thermostat up a few degrees; sure it will help over the long haul, but will it save you enough money NOW to stay in business? But I do agree that there is a LOT of glut in the civilian sector - problem is nobody has the balls to fire the RIGHT people, they just lay off the most recent / least tenured hires, thereby ensuring the lazier guy stays employed forever.

I promise you there is no more socialistic organization than the US government.

EDIT: Want to make it clear that I don't consider Tom to be on of the "lazier guys" who stays forever. We need more guys willing to haul bombs in their personal vehicles for free. :)

[rsteinmetz70112]

A lot of real savings in military spending could be made if the congresscritters would allow basing to align with actual needs. We spend many billions on unneeded bases to keep jobs in congressional districts. Closing some of these unneeded money pits would save money and probably reduce government payroll. Some members only like military spending if it's in their districts.

[Osteomata]

As a pretty recent military retiree currently serving as a defense contractor, and keeping an eye out for a DoD GS position, I generally agree with last three posts while still contending that freezing federal pay is pretty reasonable if you have little or no cost of living increase, 9% unemployment, a history of pay increases during the recession, and a growth in this specific job force during the same period. We ought to be looking at all areas to effectively reduce our deficit and debt, with no sacred cows left undiscussed.

[tom4bren]

All good points.

But ...

There is no goose that lays a golden egg. They need to look at a wholistic approach. Every Government spendature needs to be evaluated and scrutinized.

Freezing the pay of DOD civilians is a start & we've gotten used to that criticism (& jokes) over the years. The amount saved is minimal though and probably so insignificant that the total is within measurement error.

Remember also that the national debt is tied DIRECTLY with the standard of living. If you want the good life, not only do you have to buy it but you have to also get everyone else to buy into it as well to support the infrastructure that goes with it.

[BigSwede]

Given the shape liberal MN is in. Did all the wrong things in the state that the liberals in DC did. Then the people get all upset at the person trying to fix it because now the piper needs paid for years of bad policy.
I may be wrong, but it seems like you are agreeing with me.


Are you aware that during BOs tenure unemployment and underemployment is over 16%? And that duringthat same period the Federal Government not only got larger but the number of people making over $100,000 a year increased dramatically? You solve the deficit by spending less not more. The percentage of taxes compared to the GNP is at the highest it's ever been and the solution is to make it higher? Thats what the liberals are saying.
I am NOT disagreeing with you. But you are missing my point - much of the increased spending recently occurred in an attempt to save the economy from a Great Depression-like event. Clamping down on spending was tried by the Hoover administration last time, and it did not work. People who say stimulus spending and bailouts are failure (Republican political candidates, often) because the economy is stagnant fail to allow for the possibility that things might have been much, much worse without the spending.

But, even if this spending saved us from greater pain in the short term, the question becomes - will this bite us in the *** down the road? Probably. Pick your poison.


A recent study actually shows the rate of turnover in Govt jobs is less than 1%. Anything less than 3% is keeping worthless employees.
I am currently working (as a contractor) in a federal building. About half the people I see walking around strike me as marginally employable in the private sector. A superficial assessment to be sure, but it agrees with your stats.

[vt_maverick]

But, even if this spending saved us from greater pain in the short term, the question becomes - will this bite us in the *** down the road? Probably. Pick your poison.

And this is the problem. Decades of choosing the short-term fix without addressing the long term problem. It's not a matter of "picking your poison" - sometime, somewhere we HAVE to pick the short-term pain. We wait until we're almost out of (other people's) money before we address the issue, and even then all most politicians want to address is how to bridge us to the next crisis. I'm tired of Band-Aids, they need to fix the problem.

[BigSwede]

This is probably the greatest weakness of a democracy. Politicians are motivated by short term concerns (get re-elected), rather than the long-term good.

[RickOKC]

Not directed at anyone in particular, just stating a long held belief....

My opinion: another weakness is that people get caught up in "my team" vs "their team" and "winning." Nobody gets points for voting for the person they think is going to win instead of who they really really want to win, but some do it anyway. Hey, knock yourself out, go crazy in regards to your favorite sports team. But this is actually important and shouldn't be reduced to some goofy "us vs. them / see, I'm right" attitude. Be serious, take it seriously and spend more time listening and learning instead of trying to prove yourself right. Heck, try to find something to prove your opinion wrong and see what you learn. Always try to see things from the other side. Or walk around like Charlie Sheen telling everyone how you're "WINNING!"

Tiger Blood Rick, signing off.

(and winning!)

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

My solution to getting this country back on track:

1)Elect Ron Paul for President
2)Get rid of the FEDERAL RESERVE and have this country print & distribute its own money like it did for most of its existance. (You do know that the Federal Reserve isn't actually a Federal Institution...its a private banking conglomerate run by the biggest, greediest bankers out there!)
2.5)Go back to a Gold-based/backed currency, not continue with the FIAT one we have now. (do an audit of Fort Knox...you'd probably be surprised @ what is actually in there.)
3)Take 1 page out of Clinton's Presidency & strive for balanced budgets. Flush the rest of the pages down the toilet.
4)Stop going to war at the drop of a hat over every worldly problem...in short...this country needs to stop being the World Police Force.
5)Give this country some of its Pride back by sending Astronauts to Mars. The trickle-down effect alone of derived technology necessary to achieve this will work its way into the private/corporate sector and we all win with it entering our lives and businesses.
6)Stop sending jobs overseas. What happens when you kill the Golden Goose? Without decent paying jobs...who has money to buy houses, fridges, cars, motorcyles, etc..etc...etc...
7)Offer illegal aliens a chance to become US citizens the right way...go through the already existing immigration laws & processes. Once your in..you can work to achieve a better life for yourself. If you don't make the cut...your but is sent via the U.S. Postal Service back to Mexico. (This gives the Postal System a boost...okay....just kidding about this one..lol.)

And as far as running into the cop...how can you go from "They were really good about it..much better than hitting a civilian" all the way over to: "not returning his calls...he should have gotten the info the first time....this is for all the times they busted my balls about window tint..etc..etc.."

It seems to me that you should be grateful they treated you with respect & dignity and were good about it...you should give what you get in my book.

[Osteomata]

Well in the spirit of friendly discussion:
I can definately get on board with #3, #4, and your path to citizenship reasonableness in #7.
I defended Ron Paul to my more liberal friends, and against the main stream conservative during the last election, but that support was despite, not because of his gold standard fetish. I just don't think it has a real place in modern economics, but I really don't think we will resolve that issue here, so I just toss it out there as "I disagree".
As for #5, it seems to me to be distinctly in conflict with your otherwise small government, free market support.
For #6, how do you propose to do that? Have the federal government make the employment decisions of corporations subject to State approval? That problems is a symptom, not a cause.

[VXR]

Stop going to war at the drop of a hat over every worldly problem...in short...this country needs to stop being the World Police Force

X2:yesb:

[Bob Barker]

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p127/jonbradley_photos/Hijack-In_progress.jpg

[Bob Barker]

I guess it's not really breaking new, or in progress as much as been done, but it's the first I found on Google :laughing:

[BigSwede]

4)Stop going to war at the drop of a hat over every worldly problem...in short...this country needs to stop being the World Police Force.

We don't, really. We only go when our interests are at stake. Usually oil, or terrorism. There are plenty of places where horrible genocides have taken place and we have ignored it, other than lip service.

[crager34]

Quote:




Originally Posted by LittleBeast

It is slowly being taken out from under our feet because we have not appreciated it and we have not used the system at all. Although those in power are trying their best to not honor the Constitution it is our duty as voters to give them a wake up call and remind them of our foundations. It is not a perfect system nor will any system that has people involved in it, but it is still the best in the world.




X2:yesb:

If this was the case AND people actually believed it, there would be change in the government.

p.s. I haven't got the multi quote thing down yet.