Solutions to Window & Cup Holder

[samendalk]

So I got my Vx 2 weeks ago and I've begun to try to fix/upgrade all the issues

The 1st two I tackled are the window binding & cup holder problems.

I have a temporary & permanent solution for the window problem

Temporary: I used the mount from a gps unit with a suction cup. I stick it to the window and hold on to it to guide the window up & down. I can take it off easily if i wish, but i leave it on.

http://i.imgur.com/IedJvh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/wUanah.jpg

For a permanent solution, the problem appears to be that the metal bracket that goes up and down the tracks and attaches to the window is only gripping the tracks on the left side but not on the right.
On the right side it follows a the track but it doesnt grip it, so if it were pushed back it comes off the track easily.
If this can be fixed by adding a piece that grippes the track like it does on the left side, this issue can be permanently fixed.
I am working on this and if anyone can make this, plastic or metal, that would be great.
here are some pictures showing how it comes off the track.

http://i.imgur.com/BjkgXs.jpg

right side of track
http://i.imgur.com/w4TP4h.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Sy6Jfh.jpg

left side of track
http://i.imgur.com/HkMOOh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/zL9hJh.jpg

So contact me if you can fix this or i'll update if i find a fix


Cup holder.
I purchased this very simple cup holder from auto zone.
I broke off the bottom piece and i used double sided tape on the back to secure it to the center console. It works great.

http://i.imgur.com/hWfzMh.jpg

[vt_maverick]

Sam - Have you read any of the window repair threads yet?

[samendalk]

yes, I actually purchased the metal brackets but my platic pieces are not broken, that is not the problem

The other problem people noted was the rubber guides needed lubrication, that also didnt solve the problem.

[Marlin]

His problem is the same as mine. The plastic tabs have worn on the track. I also found out that the trooper tracks are not the same as the VX, although I didn't check to see if that little arm might work, or at least the plastic.....I will get back to you.

[VX KAT]

yes, I actually purchased the metal brackets but my platic pieces are not broken, that is not the problem

The other problem people noted was the rubber guides needed lubrication, that also didnt solve the problem.

I didn't see you mention it, but many have also widened the metal rail/track the leading edge of the glass runs in, to reduce friction/ pressure on the glass. I used pliers and opened up the C-shape metal track until it was wider at the edges, particularly near the top as that's where I could see it was binding.

I also had the SBC brackets installed even though my plastic clips weren't broken. I use pure silicon spray to lubricate the rubber channels.


Here's a fix using a bungee cord (Joshi & SlowPro48 have successfully done this):
http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showpost.php?p=226963&postcount=9


I recall there was one owner (Bulldoggie, and then tysamigo) that neither of the above helped. He tried putting some metal washers in a stack, maybe 1/2" or so, to act as spacers and push the bottom of the glass outward, and of course that made the upper part of the glass tilt inward more. I believe that solved the tilting and jumping the track issue. I recall he just kept adding washers (thickness) until the angle was optimized.
http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showpost.php?p=100318&postcount=38



And just cuz I have them all together, I'll include them here. Maybe there's a thread or two you haven't seen that might help. Hope one of these works out for you.

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=14739&highlight=window+binding

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=16083&highlight=window+binding+fix

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=8043&highlight=widen+track+window

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=11541&highlight=window+binding

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showpost.php?p=93758&postcount=4

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=5604&highlight=window+binding+fix

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?threadid=10278

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showpost.php?p=66217&postcount=26

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showpost.php?p=66280&postcount=27

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showpost.php?p=73547&postcount=31

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showpost.php?p=100318&postcount=38

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=4374&highlight=window+binding+track

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=5845&highlight=window+track

http://www.antiquecaterpillar.org/vx/Technical/Window.asp

http://www.antiquecaterpillar.org/vx/Technical/Window_Bert.asp

[atilla_the_fun]

Im thinking of using a long strand of the male half of a velcro strip - and gluing it to the both sides of the leading edge of the windows. That should reduce the friction from the old rubber to glass that actually causes these issues in the first place. Its either that or buy some OEM track felt and replace the rubber with it. That rubber is the devil! Opening up the front track to reduce friction will work, but will slightly increase road noise/water seepage

[Riff Raff]

Cup holder.
I purchased this very simple cup holder from auto zone.
I broke off the bottom piece and i used double sided tape on the back to secure it to the center console. It works great.

http://i.imgur.com/hWfzMh.jpg


Very clever for a cup holder, but it's not quite finished. You should also hack-saw off the top flat vertical extension portion of the cup holder evenly flush with the top of the horizontal "circular arms". Thus, you'd just have only the remaining horizontal "circular arms" stuck-on with the double-sided tape at the 12 O'clock (forward) position.

By also removing the top flat vertical extension portion of the original cup holder would allow you to easily access the Console Push-Buttons (very important) and make for a much cleaner installation without looking shoddy.

After you hack-saw off the top flat vertical extension portion of the cup holder, either sand smooth the top cut jagged edge and/or put a piece of Black Electician's Tape along the top cut jagged edge to protect against any future cuts or personal injury. Then your cup holder mod would be complete/finished.

:bgwb:

[samendalk]

VX KAT: thanks for the links, i'll browse them

atilla: let us know how it works, for me i'll focus on how the bracket hugs the track, it think thats the problem

Riff Raff: you're right, i was going to do that but decided i might regret it, now i want to do that, so i'll have to take it off and do it as smoothly as possible. I'll retake a pic afterwards.
by the way i didnt break off the bottom on purpose but it turned out to work even better without it.
and the good thing is that its very secure yet it can be taken off in the future should i need to.

[VX KAT]

Im thinking of using a long strand of the male half of a velcro strip - and gluing it to the both sides of the leading edge of the windows. That should reduce the friction from the old rubber to glass that actually causes these issues in the first place. Its either that or buy some OEM track felt and replace the rubber with it. That rubber is the devil! Opening up the front track to reduce friction will work, but will slightly increase road noise/water seepage

That reminds me .......somebody, a long time ago, can't recall who (Tom4Bren maybe?), completely cut off the vertical forward rubber part of the track (that fits into the metal channel I widened), and replaced it with OEM track felt or weatherstripping FELT type material. I can't recall all the details of how it was attached...have to try to dig up that thread. I believe it was for that exact same reason, less friction, no lubrication needed. IIRC it worked and worked well!

[johnnyapollo]

JoeBlack was working on a delrin replacement for those clips that would apply tension to both sides and prevent the clips from wearing like yours. He went so far as to prototype out of wood (I actually cut the parts for him on my bandsaw and we tried it on the passenger door of my Proton). It worked well but needed a little tweaking - that's as far as he got. Joe's been working to set up his farm down in Florida and get his Avionics license, so is no longer available for mods. Since he's pretty much abandoned this forum, perhaps someone else could pursue that line of research?

-- John

[tom4bren]

That reminds me .......somebody, a long time ago, can't recall who (Tom4Bren maybe?), completely cut off the vertical forward rubber part of the track (that fits into the metal channel I widened), and replaced it with OEM track felt or weatherstripping FELT type material. I can't recall all the details of how it was attached...have to try to dig up that thread. I believe it was for that exact same reason, less friction, no lubrication needed. IIRC it worked and worked well!

Yup KAT. That was me. Pix seem to have disappeared from my gallery but I'll see if I still have the originals.

Basically, when I got the VX, the weatherstrip on the drivers window bunched up & tore. So, I cut it off where the front track goes virtical (basically the top of the tweeter pod) & removed the entire front section. I then just glued some felt to the sides of the channel. It was intended for a temporary fix that worked well enough that I never went back and did a permanent repair (even though I have a replacement weather strip sitting in the garage ala KAT).

I also meant to add a second layer of felt to the inside edge of the channel to get a tighter fit ... but again, the repair worked so well that I was reluctant to mess with it.

Originally, I intended to also lay a layer of felt in the bottom wall of the channel (where the edge of the glass would ride) but found that wasn't needed either.

Now, the passenger window is another situation entirely. I'm having the same problem samendalk is encountering. Those ^&^%$&^% track guides are FUBAR. I've tried to add spacers to shove the mechanism against the track. It worked for a while but is no longer working. I'm contemplating the bungie cord fix but would prefer replacement track grabbers.

[samneil2000]

My original track/regulator was messed up. Both those teeth on the front side were broken off (I think due to window tilt). Also the weather stripping was cut at around the tweeter level and there was nothing in the track below the window opening. Road noise was horrible and water would seep in but not too bad.

I replaced the weather stripping with some used OEM stuff I found on ebay. Then the window tilted really bad. I then tried to fix that issue with a screw and the "screw-hole" off a screw-hole tie wrap. I snipped it off the tie wrap and put a screw threw it and then screwed it in part way into the metal bracket. I left the "screw-hole" above the track and hoped to use it as a guide. I never could get it to work like I wanted, so I bought a replacement regulator off of ebay and replace it. That one had the teeth that my original one was missing, but it tilted too (and yes, I have the SBC brackets, that was my first mod).

That takes me to now... a month or three ago I added the WeatherTech deflectors and added two small bungees. One at the back pulling down, and one at the front pulling up. I still had to guide the window when rolling it up, holding down on the back just a bit. This weekend I jumped in my VX and the driver's window won't even roll back down. I don't know what happened, if the motor went out or if the window is seized or what... :(

Here's a pic that shows where I added the screw with plastic cap:
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/window.jpg
And this is what the weather stripping looked like when I got my VX
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/CIMG5282.JPG

[samendalk]

samneil: your screw idea is kinda what i'm gonna try to create
but i'd like to take off the bracket and create something that will last.

we'll see.

[Bulldoggie]

I recall there was one owner (Bulldoggie, and then tysamigo) that neither of the above helped. He tried putting some metal washers in a stack, maybe 1/2" or so, to act as spacers and push the bottom of the glass outward, and of course that made the upper part of the glass tilt inward more. I believe that solved the tilting and jumping the track issue. I recall he just kept adding washers (thickness) until the angle was optimized.
http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showpost.php?p=100318&postcount=38



I used the washers to keep the horizontal window guide arm from separating from the guide track. like your picture shows. Since the amount of separation is different for all, the amount of washers varies.
there are pictures in my gallery showing this detail.
I test the alignment by checking how the glass rests on the mount while it is unbolted in various up/down positions.
the glass should rest on the center of the top of the mount while the mount is snug to the track.

In other words; the glass runs in fixed guides front and rear.
When the mount separates like yours, the track is not aligned, so the glass pulls the mount away from the track.
It is not a problem with the track guides!

[Bulldoggie]

and yes! this alignment of the track fixes the window from pushing outward of the weatherstripping, while going up.
When the mount is pulling away from the track, it is also pulling the bottom of the glass inward, forcing the top of the glass to tilt outward.

the other fixes are for the window binding/tilting at the front by the mirror.

[Bulldoggie]

For a permanent solution, the problem appears to be that the metal bracket that goes up and down the tracks and attaches to the window is only gripping the tracks on the left side but not on the right.
On the right side it follows a the track but it doesnt grip it, so if it were pushed back it comes off the track easily.
If this can be fixed by adding a piece that grippes the track like it does on the left side, this issue can be permanently fixed.
I am working on this and if anyone can make this, plastic or metal, that would be great.
here are some pictures showing how it comes off the track.

http://i.imgur.com/BjkgXs.jpg

right side of track
http://i.imgur.com/w4TP4h.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Sy6Jfh.jpg

left side of track
http://i.imgur.com/HkMOOh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/zL9hJh.jpg



DO NOT make the arm grip the track!!
if you try, you WILL break the Tabs on the glass!
THIS tension is what breaks them!

DO shim the track closer to the glass so the glass rests on the track "Arm" with NO tension!

The metal bracket, with the window bolts; is what I have been referring to as the regulator "Arm"

[atilla_the_fun]

Yeah.. this whole system is pretty f-d up. Would it have hurt Isuzu to have a normal scissor mechanism What is the mechanism on the trooper?

[samendalk]

Great tip Bulldoggie

thats certainly a different way to look at it.
I think you're right, so i'll give it a shot hopefully tomorrow, i'll come back with the results.

[Bulldoggie]

The window tilting down by the mirror while raising, is a whole 'nother Ball game.
For that issue, I suggest the many other posted fixes.
For that issue is caused by too much friction in the front glass guide!
a) too much friction from the front weatherstrip
~also a big factor in regulator speed!
b) Glass adjusted too far forward
c) Regulator track not aligned vertically with the angle of the rear window guide.
d) All the above and including the track arm shimming! Although b and c are almost the same...

[Bulldoggie]

The metal window tabs fixes the broken window tabs and keeps the windows working.
But, in my opinion
the TENTION that broke them in the first place is still there!
Just my 2 cents!

[rsteinmetz70112]

The metal window tabs fixes the broken window tabs and keeps the windows working.
But, in my opinion
the TENTION that broke them in the first place is still there!
Just my 2 cents!

Wouldn't metal tabs be better able to handle the tension?

[VX KAT]

Wouldn't metal tabs be better able to handle the tension?

yup, that's the theory for the metal SBC brackets, but Bulldoggie is correct, the tension/friction on the leading edge of the glass can still be present, so (in my case) I have to still keep the front vertical rubber track well lubricated with pure silicone spray a few times per year. My windows have never jumped the track, tilted or raised up uneven, so that is an additional issue some need to address.

p.s.....are you closer to finding/buying a VX yet, know you've been looking for a while?

[Bulldoggie]

Wouldn't metal tabs be better able to handle the tension?

YES!
but the tension will go somewhere else;
like the nylon guide on the track, the one that does grab. (Wraps around the edge of the track) would be the next part to fail.
The weatherstripping would wear uneven from the glass exerting pressure on one side as it goes up and down. would be a concern.
The window tilting in the front has many documented cases of weathersrtipping wearing though by the mirror.
But I'm not trying to scare anyone away from using them.
I do maintenance for a living, it's my job to look for reasons why things don't work like they should.

[samendalk]

I tried adding washers to the top of the track but that forced part of the regulator onto the glass.

still working on it.

[Bulldoggie]

I tried adding washers to the top of the track but that forced part of the regulator onto the glass.

still working on it.

I'm guessing, that you know, that is too many!


The most important adjustment;
Is for the window glass to "rest" on the top of the regulator Arm's center pad (white nylon) while the glass is unbolted!!!
(so the window is in a "relaxed" state)

This needs to be checked with the Arm, even with the top track bolts
and again with the Arm, even with the bottom track bolts
and then checked again and again. (in the middle too)
in case shimming one, effected the other!
You might want to start at the bottom.

Once you see the arm able to stay under the glass all the way from the bottom to top without the glass bolted you will have the right amount of shims (washers)
Then you can bolt the glass to the Arm!

[H3_VX]

So am I to understand from this thread that the motor is not the real issue? I just don't want to spend $400 on a fix that won't even do anything.

[Marlin]

Nope, not at all. It is a poor design/alignment issue. That plastic guide wears since the window isn't aligned, eventually it could burn out the motor if you forced it up without helping enough times. If it makes that bogged down sound, and dims your lights, thats a sign the motor is working too hard:)