4:77's & 35's...some stats...

[Ldub]

Since getting my 4:77's & locker finally wrenched into the machine, I have had to re-calibrate all the associated numbers so that I can evaluate changes in mileage, odometer etc.

First, I borrowed a GPS unit from my Boss & put a small dot on the lens of the speedo corresponding to 55-60-65-70 & 75 mph.

OK, now I know how fast I'm really going.

Next, I took a little 30 mile cruise, while my co-pilot, Hunny Girl, wrote down the beginning & ending mile markers, & the corresponding trip odo values.

Then, crunched the numbers & came up with nearly 7% (6.94) margin of error.

My old margin of error, figured the same way, was about 16% with the stock (4:30) gearing.

My current rpm @75 mph is 2800.

I will be updating this with my findings regarding mpg in the future, but my initial guess is that my mileage is getting better. As the fuel ga is moving to the left @ a slower rate @ previously known mileage values...:dance:
Also, while maintaining a cruising velocity of 75 mph, I am experiencing neutral intake pressures, sometimes even slight vacuum, where before at the same speed, I was always under 3-4 psi boost. That's gotta help.

For those trying to make sense of these convoluted calculations:

The mileage on the trip odo will be multiplied by .07, that number is added to the miles on the trip odo, then that total (actual miles driven) is divided by the number of gallons used.

[LittleBeast]

THANKS!!!!!

I will be getting the 35's as soon as my 33's wear out (they have already lasted over 2 years and 60k miles), and since I already have 4.78's in front and rear this will help a lot!

Do you still get the driveline vibrations? I have ordered the Indy4x lower links to correct the pinion angle after lifting to see if this fixes this. Thanks again for the info :-)

[Ldub]

Do you still get the driveline vibrations? I have ordered the Indy4x lower links to correct the pinion angle after lifting to see if this fixes this.

Yep, I'm experiencing some DL vibe, especially @ 55mph.
I know it's coming from the rear, because it was noticeable before I installed the front axle/driveline.
I'll be very interested to hear your results.

[samneil2000]

You guys make me jealous. How are your CV boots holding up with maximum lift? Other than that, and some high angles on them, there's really nothing major going on. I wonder if the rear axle shafts are strong enough for the 35's and offroading - not to mention supercharging.
Are your A-arms resting on the bottom stops or do you have a little space left for down-travel?

Edit - Yall both have diff drop brackets, so your angles probably aren't any worse than mine... Crap, I need a bonus so I can go shopping for VX parts. haha

[Ebenezr]

Your driveshaft and universal rotation is now faster at 55 (not that you didn't know this) so was there vibe before at 65??? oops you said it was noticable

[Ldub]

I wonder if the rear axle shafts are strong enough for the 35's and offroading - not to mention supercharging.
Are your A-arms resting on the bottom stops or do you have a little space left for down-travel?



There is some down travel left in the front because of the ball joint flip & the addition of low pro bumps from Indy4x.

I've seen more than a few posts here & there on the web that indicate the Isuzu corp 12 bolt compares in brawn to a Dana 44.

[Ldub]

Your driveshaft and universal rotation is now faster at 55 (not that you didn't know this) so was there vibe before at 65???

Yep.
Also, I re indexed the drive shaft/third member connection 180 deg, on the chance that it would help, but alas, not so much...:(

The funny part of that is:
I had backed into my parking spot (on a slight incline) & was about to proceed with the "laying on of the wrenches", when Marlins experience (http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=21026&highlight=VX+ran) flashed into my brain.
I then pressed the wheel chocks into service...:mbrasd:

[Ebenezr]

Yep.
Also, I re indexed the drive shaft/third member connection 180 deg, on the chance that it would help, but alas, not so much...:(

The funny part of that is:
I had backed into my parking spot (on a slight incline) & was about to proceed with the "laying on of the wrenches", when Marlins experience (http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=21026&highlight=VX+ran) flashed into my brain.
I then pressed the wheel chocks into service...:mbrasd:

YES understood. You do not want to be a human wheel chock. but U joints are noted for singing at 55 MPH.

[Triathlete]

Our 12 bolt rears are actually stronger than a 44 and pretty close to a dana 60 iirc. They are getting popular with the dark side (jeep guys).:D

[LittleBeast]

My first thought was u joints with the vibration, but after having the driveshaft professionally rebuilt with new u joints and all and seeing no real lasting improvement, I am convinced most of the dl vibration after lifting is due to the new different angle of the pinion in the 3rd member side.

As far as down travel goes I am the same with ldub with the ball joint flip and ultra low bumps on the front, so i do have some down travel left at rest, but you would be surprised to note that the first thing to make contact now is the bolts that connect the front cross member to the frame.

[Ebenezr]

My first thought was u joints with the vibration, but after having the driveshaft professionally rebuilt with new u joints and all and seeing no real lasting improvement, I am convinced most of the dl vibration after lifting is due to the new different angle of the pinion in the 3rd member side.

As far as down travel goes I am the same with ldub with the ball joint flip and ultra low bumps on the front, so i do have some down travel left at rest, but you would be surprised to note that the first thing to make contact now is the bolts that connect the front cross member to the frame.

When you say "professionally rebuilt" was your driveshaft rebalanced??

[VXorado]

After a good conversation with Matt from indy4x yesterday, I am reducing that extra lift I added last weekend for my new 35s and installing a 3" body lift to make up the difference. I have ball joints flipped, low profile bump stops & a 2" drop but to get the appropriate height you need to get close to max ifs down travel (about 4"). The body lift should give me some room in the wheel wells for 35s while leaving the suspension with some room to move. I'll let ya know how it goes.

Oh and I'm jealous of those 4.77s dub & littlebeast. I just bought a 12 bolt with an arb locker & 4.56 gearing so I guess I'm giving up on finding those mythical 4.77s.

[samneil2000]

What about those really low 5.xx something gears that were being sold here a while back. They might be a good match for 35's...

[LittleBeast]

What about those really low 5.xx something gears that were being sold here a while back. They might be a good match for 35's...

Yes but the fronts 5.38's are near impossible to find. You can get the rears pretty easily though. Those that have the 5.38 fronts tend to know that they can get a lot for them :-(

And yes they did the high speed balancing when they rebuilt the driveshaft. Nice shop here in Houston.

[VXorado]

Yes but the fronts 5.38's are near impossible to find. You can get the rears pretty easily though. Those that have the 5.38 fronts tend to know that they can get a lot for them :-(


Right unless you do a SAS. Probably less work to do a SAS than to source these rare Isuzu gears...:(

Its too bad that 4.56 is the lowest readily available gearing option, its really the only downfall to the Isuzu 12 bolt. IMO if gearing wasn't an issue, I would take a 12 bolt over a D44 anyday, the strength is comparable (as Billy said) & 3rd member axles are much easier to work on.

[PK]

The mileage on the trip odo will be multiplied by .07, that number is added to the miles on the trip odo, then that total (actual miles driven) is divided by the number of gallons used.

There ya go Mate, fixed it for ya.:yesy::yeso:

Sorry Larry.
I am a pedantic prick when it comes to calculations.:o:o:p

PK

[nfpgasmask]

Weird, 7% is the number I came up with (and subsequently have programed into my Scan Guage II) to calculate my actual speed with my 2" lift and 265 tires.

Dub, you should consider the Scan Guage becuase you can program it and have it read out your actual speed.

I'm sure you are loving that locker. Putting the Aussie in my Trooper made a HUGE difference offroad.

:thumbup: Bart

[Ldub]

There ya go Mate, fixed it for ya.:yesy::yeso:

Sorry Larry.
I am a pedantic prick when it comes to calculations.:o:o:p

PK

No worries Mate, I appreciate the hedzup...:thanx:

I wen go back & fix um, so nobody get it wrong.

[Ldub]

Weird, 7% is the number I came up with (and subsequently have programed into my Scan Guage II) to calculate my actual speed with my 2" lift and 265 tires.

Dub, you should consider the Scan Guage becuase you can program it and have it read out your actual speed.

I'm sure you are loving that locker. Putting the Aussie in my Trooper made a HUGE difference offroad.

:thumbup: Bart

Yep...7.3% is what I get on the Miata tire calc when using your tire size vs OEM.

But you know me well enough to know of my eternal skepticism of the accuracy of everything...:uhohgray:

So I have no choice but to do a road trip while Hunny keeps track of the mile markers...:yesgray:

Also, when calculating (on intrweb tire calcs) the difference between stock & 35's, I found a 1-2% discrepancy in their % values.
I'm sure they use a baseline calc, & there are certainly differences in actual size from one manufacturer to the others. Possibly due to tread depth etc.
When I switch over to my 18's, I'll be double check'n it all again...:yesgray:

Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to eval the difference the locker makes off road. But she DOES leave some very nice equal length digs when I NAIL IT in the gravel parking lot @ work...:smilewink

I'm hoping to do some extensive testing up north (http://www.ironrange.org/recreation/atv-ohv/ohv-park/) this fall...:dance:

ESPECIALLY on ski jump hill (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHyr9sQt7Mc)& upper money talks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0IWRoyanQ8)...:yesgray:

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=14353&highlight=ski+jump+hill

[Triathlete]

Then when your done playing there maybe you can find something with a little difficulty to really test it on!:bwgy:

[Ldub]

Then when your done playing there maybe you can find something with a little difficulty to really test it on!:bwgy:

If it crawls up ski jump, I'll feel pretty satisfied...:yesgray:

As you well know, pics never do justice to steepness/difficulty.

As Steve mentioned, ski jump is not only moderately steep, but usually very LOOSE in the traction department...:smilewink

I've been there on days when, IIRC, no one made it up.

[rowhard]

locker finally wrenched into the machine,.

so where did you finally find it, or would you rather not say:bgwb::bwgy:

[nfpgasmask]

so where did you finally find it, or would you rather not say:bgwb::bwgy:

Aussie Lockers can be bought direct from Indy4x.com, its the 4.77s that are hard to locate....

Bart

[Ldub]

so where did you finally find it, or would you rather not say:bgwb::bwgy:


Aussie Lockers can be bought direct from Indy4x.com, its the 4.77s that are hard to locate....

Bart

There's a little back story to this that Bart hasn't heard...yet...:yesgray:

In the final hrs of moving out of our old apt, the locker in question was sitting on the L-R floor, wrapped in a plastic grocery bag.
Well, you know how it goes sometimes...in a hurry to get out of the old place & start moving in to the new.
For whatever reason, the locker was left sitting on the L-R floor. I didn't even miss it, until I went to gather up all the bits for the install.
I was able to locate all the peripheral stuff...shims, new bearings, ring gear bolts, etc, but NO locker. (It was pre installed in an open carrier that I bought used from Indy)
I eventually searched EVERYWHERE, went through the garage 3 times, the apt at least twice, even looked in some RIDICULOUS places, like under the bed & under the bathroom sink...:rolleyesg

Finally, as a last ditch effort, I called my old landlord.

He said that the guy who did the repainting of the old abode had it, but didn't know for sure where he was, as he had since moved out of state.

Knowing that the old L-L was not the most motivated fellow I've ever met, I offered him $100.00 if he could track it down.

Yeah...the right thing to do would have been to call me when it was found, but that's not in the cards for some types of folks...:upsetgray

In any event, I called him up about a week later, & guess what...:dance:

He had the locker, & I drove over & picked it up.

I'm pretty sure the old L-L had it the whole time, & was just hoping to extort $ome jing from your's truly, but it was still cheaper than ordering a new one.

So...in the end, I have the mo$t expen$ive Aussie Locker on the N American continent...lucky me...:slap:

[nfpgasmask]

Ahhhh, I see. For a minute I was concerned that Aussie Lockers were hard to find now!

Bart

[tom4bren]

For whatever reason, the locker was left sitting on the L-R floor.

I think we did that with one of our cats one time.

[Triathlete]

I think we did that with one of our cats one time.

In a plastic bag?:winky:

[tom4bren]

In a plastic bag?:winky:

Pick the right answer:

1. I have no response to that.

2. Actually Dad 'accidentally' shut it in one of the kitchen cabinets (found the following day when getting the next load).

3. My zombie kitty experiment was an utter failure.

[Ldub]

Ahhhh, I see. For a minute I was concerned that Aussie Lockers were hard to find now!

Bart

They ARE...if you're me...:slap:


Pick the right answer:

1. I have no response to that.

2. Actually Dad 'accidentally' shut it in one of the kitchen cabinets (found the following day when getting the next load).

3. My zombie kitty experiment was an utter failure.

All of the above...ding-ding-ding...GOOD answer...Big money...:smilewink

[Ldub]

First mileage ciphers...:thumbup:

After burning through a half tank, I filled up today.

Initial mileage looks promising, with a combined (mostly city, maybe 1/4 highway) mileage of over 13.

That would have been 10-11 before.

Can't wait to do some highway only tests.

[Ebenezr]

Did I understand this right...You left an Aussie locker behind on the living room floor when you moved....?? Did you have a fever? Maybe you forgot to eat that day? Were you up all night? (What were you smokin?) Did you need grief counseling??

and T4B I think you left that cat in a bag I choose answer 4.

:rolleyesg:_brickwal:slap:

[Ldub]

Did I understand this right...You left an Aussie locker behind on the living room floor when you moved....?? Did you have a fever? Maybe you forgot to eat that day? Were you up all night? (What were you smokin?) Did you need grief counseling??

:rolleyesg:_brickwal:slap:

Yeh...you heard right...:mbrasd:

It was just "1-na those days"...:_confused.:slap:

[rowhard]

Did you need grief counseling??

I called him on the day he realized he couldn't find it, it was more like suicide watch:disturbed

[Ebenezr]

I called him on the day he realized he couldn't find it, it was more like suicide watch:disturbed
Ba ha ha ha ha ha.

[Ldub]

I called him on the day he realized he couldn't find it, it was more like suicide watch:disturbed

Thas an understatement...:eekgray:

Oh yeh...FWIW on the subject of mileage.

I changed the fuel filter, washed & oiled the air filter, cleaned the MAF & IAT, & changed oil & filter today...:_wrench:.:yesgray:

I STILL reak of petrol, even after a VERY thorough shower...http://2wapworld.com/smilies/stink.gif

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT68WfDQfe-cdyCRR5dCUF1dLZ9WcuR4VHR6z6weRlWmwGgi-ui6A http://1389blog.com/pix/Stinky.gif

[tom4bren]

...even after a VERY thorough shower

I have no response to that.

[Ldub]

BTW, Tom, as a point of info.

I was able to attach the cross member drops & cross member with 1/2" gr 8's.

They fit perfectly through the holes in the frame, though due to hole alignment issues, I only got 1 of 2 into the frame connection, with the 2nd hole utilizing one of the old stock bolts.

As always...overkill is the best kill...:smack:

[nfpgasmask]

Dub, stupid question, is there a way that you know of to identify a set of 4.77s just by looking at the 3rd member? Like counting teeth, etc? I may have stumbled onto a set that are cheap enough that I might just have to buy them for prosperity's sake (or maybe I'll install them in my Trooper with an ARB Air Locker :evil:).

Bart

[Ldub]

Dub, stupid question, is there a way that you know of to identify a set of 4.77s just by looking at the 3rd member? Like counting teeth, etc? I may have stumbled onto a set that are cheap enough that I might just have to buy them for prosperity's sake (or maybe I'll install them in my Trooper with an ARB Air Locker :evil:).

Bart

Yep... count the number of teeth on the ring gear, count the number of teeth on the pinion, divide ring number by pinion number.

:luck: on picking up a set of "unicorn tears"...:yesgray:

[nfpgasmask]

Yep... count the number of teeth on the ring gear, count the number of teeth on the pinion, divide ring number by pinion number.

:luck: on picking up a set of "unicorn tears"...:yesgray:

Unicorn tears....and here I thought they were just hen's teeth!! I have a lead....that's all, so when they arrive at my doorstep, then I will do the :dance:. I possibly found them while working on this project:

http://forum.planetisuzoo.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56197&p=476987&hilit=black+interior#p476590

BTW, thanks for the info on the gears. :)

:rotate: Bart

[Ldub]

Unicorn tears....and here I thought they were just hen's teeth!!

As time marches on, they become more rarer-er...:yesgray:

LAST yr it was hens teeth, THIS yr it's unicorn tears, NEXT yr, it'll prolly be welfare birth control, or something equally as rare...:laughing:

[nfpgasmask]

As time marches on, they become more rarer-er...:yesgray:

LAST yr it was hens teeth, THIS yr it's unicorn tears, NEXT yr, it'll prolly be welfare birth control, or something equally as rare...:laughing:

LOL, just keep yer fingas crossed for me!!! ;)

Bart

[Ldub]

BTW, thanks for the info on the gears. :)

:rotate: Bart

No prob...:thumbup:

Keeping fingers crossed...:yesgray:

[LittleBeast]

Everytime I read this thread it makes me more happy that I picked them up when I did.

[nfpgasmask]

OK, so the VX has 4.30s with a LSD in the rear. For the few of you out there who swapped in 4.77s, was the difference noticable? I know you are locked in the rear now, Dub, but in a straight on acceleration situation on dry tarmack, how do the 4.77s feel different?

Just curious.

Bart

[Ldub]

Dub, but in a straight on acceleration situation on dry tarmack, how do the 4.77s feel different?

Just curious.

Bart

:yesgray:

Butt dyno feels like about 15-20 more HP.

[tom4bren]

So there's a significant increase to low end performance. Is there any loss in high end performance?

[Ldub]

So there's a significant increase to low end performance. Is there any loss in high end performance?

How would I know...:_confused

I haven't taken it to the top end since the first week I got it, just to see how far the needle would go...:naughty:

But I'd guess that it would still top out around 110-115, as it's pretty close to the orig gearing. (7% diff)

Prolly not a good idea to take meaty beaty big & bouncy off road tires up to that speed anyway...:smilewink

[BigSwede]

I wonder if the rear axle shafts are strong enough for the 35's and offroading

The rear 12-bolt is plenty strong, I never had a problem wheeling with 35s. The front CVs are more of a concern, although a little sanity with the skinny pedal goes a long way.

[BigSwede]

Weird, 7% is the number I came up with (and subsequently have programed into my Scan Guage II) to calculate my actual speed with my 2" lift and 265 tires.

Yep, that's about right, although actual tire sizes will vary a bit, despite what the sidewall says. I used 7% when I had the old 99 Trooper and 265/75s.

[ZEUS]

So there's a significant increase to low end performance. Is there any loss in high end performance?
I was better able to maintain speed up steep grades with the 4.77's. Throttle response was prolly 1.1% greater as well. :smilewink

[Ldub]

I was better able to maintain speed up steep grades with the 4.77's. Throttle response was prolly 1.1% greater as well. :smilewink

I'll never forget the time I took you back to your camp in Moab.

After I gave the ol' girl a good kick in the slats, you looked at me & said: "you're gonna LOVE gears"...:yesgray:

[tom4bren]

How would I know...:_confused

I haven't taken it to the top end since the first week I got it, just to see how far the needle would go...:naughty:

But I'd guess that it would still top out around 110-115, as it's pretty close to the orig gearing. (7% diff)

Prolly not a good idea to take meaty beaty big & bouncy off road tires up to that speed anyway...:smilewink

Point taken but what I was thinking about was the increased rev at highway speeds. I forgetted that your gearing with big meat took you back to close to stock performance.:)

[nfpgasmask]

So realistically, what do you folks in the know think the perceived difference would be going from 4.54s to 4.77s? Is it too close to even make much of a difference? Or will there be some apparent gains? And no, I am not talking about the VX. I am talking about the Trooper. Something came in the mail today and it might just be Unicorn Tears (with a few hen's teeth in there as well).

:D Bart

[LittleBeast]

I would say yes. It is quite a difference. It makes the VX accelerate amazingly well for having larger tires. And I just got 17mpg my last road trip this last weekend. Best ever after the lift and tires and all. Maybe has to do with all new pulleys on the engine haha :-)

[nfpgasmask]

I would say yes. It is quite a difference. It makes the VX accelerate amazingly well for having larger tires. And I just got 17mpg my last road trip this last weekend. Best ever after the lift and tires and all. Maybe has to do with all new pulleys on the engine haha :-)

I know the difference is good with the VX (going from 4.30s to 4.77s) but I am talking about going from 4.54s to 4.77s with my Trooper.

Bart

[nfpgasmask]

BTW, I took this pic in my garage tonight.

http://www.isuzugeek.org/forumpics/trooper/477s.jpg

I haven't counted teeth yet, but they came outta this:

http://www.isuzugeek.org/forumpics/trooper/sadrs.jpg

:cool!: Bart

[BigSwede]

Bart, 4.56 to 4.77 is a 4.6% change.

By way of comparison, going from stock 245/70 (29.5") tires to 265/75 (~32") is about a 7% change.

[nfpgasmask]

Bart, 4.56 to 4.77 is a 4.6% change.

By way of comparison, going from stock 245/70 (29.5") tires to 265/75 (~32") is about a 7% change.

Thanks, Swede. So you think there will be a somewhat noticeable change?

Bart

[BigSwede]

"somewhat noticeable" sounds about right...

[VXorado]

Thanks, Swede. So you think there will be a somewhat noticeable change?

Bart

No, no, no Bart, not worth the difference. Don't worry, I can take those 4.77s off your hands :p.

Seriously though for your Trooper's tire size its not really worth it. I struggled with this going to 4.56 from 4.30 for my 35s & its really wasn't enough difference for the time, effort & money. For VXs or an auto Trooper it makes more sense to swap a 5-speed & get the ~3.75 1st gear. As you know, I stumbled upon an ARB 12 bolt 3rd with 4.56 so I ended up deciding to regear while upgrading to lockers.

IMO, those gears are worth too much $$$ for the a small benefit you'll get in the Trooper. Nice work finding those...

[BigSwede]

Whereas, for the VX, going from 4.30 to 4.77 is close to an 11% change...just sayin...

[samneil2000]

In other words, it's not worth it Bart, so just sell them to me... :)

[SilverBullet75]

Ok. You guys got my attention now.
I have "play money" and am in upgrade mode with my VX.

I'm amazed at the off the line ability that my VX has WITH 33's (more that it's not that much different from stock), so if it'll improve with 4.77s, I'll start looking.

Now, I don't have much knowledge in this area, so please forgive the "dumb" questions:

1. Do I have to regear the front as well as the rear?
2. Does it require any special tools or experience, or can I do it myself (I'm a capable do-it-yourself'er).
3. How do the numbers work? With 33's, do I want a higher number or lower (4.77 vs. 4.56 vs. 5.38, etc...)? Note: I'm not a hard core wheeler... 90+% street...
4. Should I re-gear before I diff-drop, or does it matter?
... I'm sure there'll be more questions.
thanks for any help!
---JIM---

[yellowgizmo99]

1. yes on front as well

[JoFotoz]

Your first issue will be finding gears......


......lots are looking, they are like hens teeth!

jo

[VXorado]

1. Do I have to regear the front as well as the rear?Yes
2. Does it require any special tools or experience, or can I do it myself (I'm a capable do-it-yourself'er). You'll need the gears professionally installed into the 3rd member, installing in the axles is fairly easy
3. How do the numbers work? With 33's, do I want a higher number or lower (4.77 vs. 4.56 vs. 5.38, etc...)? Note: I'm not a hard core wheeler... 90+% street... The only choices are 4.77,4.10,4.56
4. Should I re-gear before I diff-drop, or does it matter? At the same time because you need to drop the diff to install the gears
... I'm sure there'll be more questions.
thanks for any help!
---JIM---

I'm installing 4.56 gears this Spring because I bought an ARB locker installed into a 12 bolt 3rd with 4.56 gearing. I wouldn't install the 4.56 without the locker- too much work for little gains. 4.77 is a great upgrade but very hard to find... I gave up after a year of looking.

[VXorado]

To clarify...

Stock 4.30 axle shaft revolutions per 1 wheel revolution

Upgrade 4.56/4.77 axle shaft revolution per 1 wheel revolution

[Ldub]

To clarify...

Stock 4.30 axle shaft revolutions per 1 wheel revolution

Upgrade 4.56/4.77 axle shaft revolution per 1 wheel revolution

Don't you mean DRIVE shaft revo's per wheel revo...?

Or have I had too much Jack...:confused:

[Ldub]

Ok. You guys got my attention now.
I have "play money" and am in upgrade mode with my VX.

I'm amazed at the off the line ability that my VX has WITH 33's (more that it's not that much different from stock), so if it'll improve with 4.77s, I'll start looking.

Now, I don't have much knowledge in this area, so please forgive the "dumb" questions:

1. Do I have to regear the front as well as the rear?

YES

2. Does it require any special tools or experience, or can I do it myself (I'm a capable do-it-yourself'er).

That's really hard to say for sure, read "Little Beasts" write up on changing gears & see what you think.

3. How do the numbers work? With 33's, do I want a higher number or lower (4.77 vs. 4.56 vs. 5.38, etc...)? Note: I'm not a hard core wheeler... 90+% street...

The higher the number, the lower the gearing = the higher the number, the quicker the acceleration.

4. Should I re-gear before I diff-drop, or does it matter?

You should do both at the same time, since you have to drop the front axle to do either...:yesgray:.:_wrench:

... I'm sure there'll be more questions.
thanks for any help!
---JIM---

Just reprising some answers from the gang, & adding a bit of my own experience...:_wrench:

This (http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showpost.php?p=240926&postcount=52) says something...:smilewink

And this should help you decide wether you have the :_wrench: skills required...:yesgray:

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=15864&highlight=gear+swap

However, I WILL say, that I had never changed out a 3rd member before I owned a VX...:smilewink

This might help a little too...

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=21141&highlight=speed+sensor

[VXorado]

Don't you mean DRIVE shaft revo's per wheel revo...?

Or have I had too much Jack...:confused:

I was just testing you... keep drinking, its working for you :).

Drive shaft not axle shaft. My mistake.

[Ldub]

I was just testing you... keep drinking, its working for you :).

You have nothing to worry about...:yesgray:

Since you don't live in my nape of the woods...:laughing:

I'yem a guna kep havin sum john daniels til I sleepzzzzzzz gud, then I'm guna wayk up & light sume cottonwuud treez on fyr...:yesgray:..:thumbup:

(Should be a good 2 day burn)..:dance:

[BigSwede]

If the gears are already in a third member, you can swap the third in without requiring professional gear set-up. One of the nice things about the third member design.

[BigSwede]

Oh, and stock 245/70 = 29.5" diameter, so 33" represents 11.8% difference from stock. Ideally you want a similar change in gearing.
4.30 to 4.56 = 6.0%
4.30 to 4.77 = 10.9%

So 4.77s are pretty ideal for 33s.

[LittleBeast]

If the gears are already in a third member, you can swap the third in without requiring professional gear set-up. One of the nice things about the third member design.

I would have done this, but I wanted the LSD from the OE 3rd on the rear, so I had the rear 3rd rebuilt with OE LSD for $200. Fronts I just slapped right in there. I still have not done that write up yet, haha, whoops I have all the pics maybe I should do that soon.

[nfpgasmask]

So wait, you can move our LSD clutch packs into a rear 4.77 3rd member?

Bart

[Ldub]

So wait, you can move our LSD clutch packs into a rear 4.77 3rd member?

Bart

You need to bolt the ring gear to the LSD carrier, (where the clutch packs live)

Then you will have to have the gears set up by a pro.

[nfpgasmask]

Hmmmm. :evil:

Bart

[LittleBeast]

Yes, and not only that but I went on search overload when I found out that a turbo Isuzu Impulse had a 10 bolt LSD in the rear that will fit perfectly into a set of 4.77's on the front of the VX as well ;-)

All the junkyard Impulse Turbo's that I found were missing the diff though :-(

[Maddawg]

I'm amazed at the off the line ability that my VX has WITH 33's (more that it's not that much different from stock), so if it'll improve with 4.77s, I'll start looking.

http://i49.tinypic.com/5n43ko.jpg
That's a 1.6" increase on the radius (about 10% reduction in accel). I think? Seems to me that would be very noticeable.

[Ldub]

That's a 1.6" increase on the radius (about 10% reduction in accel). I think? Seems to me that would be very noticeable.

Today, as I was running errands, it came to me...(light bulb moment)

The difference in acceleration feels to me, like about the difference between the A/C off vs A/C on...but just a little better.

[Maddawg]

Today, as I was running errands, it came to me...(light bulb moment)

The difference in acceleration feels to me, like about the difference between the A/C off vs A/C on...but just a little better.

Are you running 33's with stock gearing?? I always have A/C on in the desert.

[Ldub]

Are you running 33's with stock gearing?? I always have A/C on in the desert.

Dude...:confused:

Did you do due diligent research? (as in : read the thread)

I'm roll'n 35's & 4:77's...:smilewink

Also, the fact that you always run your A/C, isn't germane to my statement...:_thinking

I was trying to explain my perception of the difference in acceleration between stock & 4:77 gearing...:fyi:

[SilverBullet75]

http://i49.tinypic.com/5n43ko.jpg
That's a 1.6" increase on the radius (about 10% reduction in accel). I think? Seems to me that would be very noticeable.

I have 33's w/stock gearing. I like LDubs analogy about the A/C.
BUT, i realized a caveat recently. It depends on exhaust! When I posted that the off the line feel was not that different than stock, I had a much more open exhaust than I do right now. Back then I had a Cherry Bomb Vortex muffler (similar to Flowmaster 40). Recently I added a SuperTrapp with 24 disks to tame it a little. It gave better tone and higher RPM torque due to back pressure increase, but low-end torque dropped a little. It bogs SLIGHTLY from a stop if throttle is aggressive. Once up to 2300ish RPM and WOT, it screams (as much as a 3.5 can...).
But, less restricted... yes, much better off the line.

[Maddawg]

Dude...:confused:

Did you do due diligent research? (as in : read the thread)

I'm roll'n 35's & 4:77's...:smilewink

Also, the fact that you always run your A/C, isn't germane to my statement...:_thinking

I was trying to explain my perception of the difference in acceleration between stock & 4:77 gearing...:fyi:



Who's not reading? My question was directed to SilverBullet75. And I got your comparison, but seeing as I run with the A/C on all the time, that would be double s**t for me. Air on and stock R&P with 33" tires........get it? Double s**t, Maddawg driving around with the windows down in 105 deg temp in order to gain acceleration, lol. I do diligent research all right, I just have CRS! But thanks anyway!!

[Maddawg]

I have 33's w/stock gearing. I like LDubs analogy about the A/C.
BUT, i realized a caveat recently. It depends on exhaust! When I posted that the off the line feel was not that different than stock, I had a much more open exhaust than I do right now. Back then I had a Cherry Bomb Vortex muffler (similar to Flowmaster 40). Recently I added a SuperTrapp with 24 disks to tame it a little. It gave better tone and higher RPM torque due to back pressure increase, but low-end torque dropped a little. It bogs SLIGHTLY from a stop if throttle is aggressive. Once up to 2300ish RPM and WOT, it screams (as much as a 3.5 can...).
But, less restricted... yes, much better off the line.

Thanks SilverBullet! I just went back to a stock muffler after going half deaf with the Flowmaster 40. The only experience I've had with the SuperTrapp was on my Baja and my dirt bike, I think I was running about 12 or 16 discs on them. Just talking ya know.

[Ldub]

Who's not reading? My question was directed to SilverBullet75. And I got your comparison, but seeing as I run with the A/C on all the time, that would be double s**t for me. Air on and stock R&P with 33" tires........get it? Double s**t, Maddawg driving around with the windows down in 105 deg temp in order to gain acceleration, lol. I do diligent research all right, I just have CRS! But thanks anyway!!

Check the tude at the door please...:smilewink

I replied in a effort to relate my perceived difference between stock & 4:77's...you know, to help you out.

If you had actual comprehension of what was said, you would be able to figure out that the DIFFERENCE in acceleration, with & without the A/C on, is what I was referring to...you DO know that acceleration is slower with the A/C sapping some of the power...right?

:fyi:...You quoted me when asking this question...so I thought the query was directed @ me...:_confused

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/QUESTION.PNG

If you even had comprehension of the TITLE + author of this thread, you wouldn't have quoted me, OR asked that question.

Can't hardly wait to be of help again...

[Maddawg]

:grino::grino::grino::grino::grino::grino::grino: So is the honeymoon over or are we establishing the pecking order here? C'mon Ldub smile. XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOX.

[Ldub]

:grino::grino::grino::grino::grino::grino::grino: So is the honeymoon over or are we establishing the pecking order here? C'mon Ldub smile. XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOX.

:smilewink...:flower:

no P-O establishment intended, was just getting frustrated with your replies...:rotate:

Here's to your A/C having a long & cool life...:_beer:

[pbkid]

What are you doing awake at these wee hours of the day dub?

[Ldub]

What are you doing awake at these wee hours of the day dub?

Replying to you...:smilewink

I'm usually up by 7-7:30 AM, & awake by 9.

[tom4bren]

Tmi

tmi


tmi

[Ldub]

Tmi

L0L

tmi

L0L

tmi

L0L




:laughing:

[LittleBeast]

How did I forget about this thread :-)