Its the last day of the month....

[JoFotoz]

....and :fyi: , the site support donations are way off.

No pressure..just say'in....:o

Not looking to debate or validate one view or another.

Jo

.

[Ldub]

but at least you didn't get called "self aggrandizing" or "elitist" or anything...:laughing:

But look on the bright side of life mate...:yesgray:

You prolly will...:slap:

[JoFotoz]

Ya know what Dub.....

.....I get your UBER donation thing.

I REALLY agree with you on that...REALLY!

I Don't get it...seriously......I DONT GET IT......

BUT..whatever...we thrive because of THIS SITE.

Let me repeat....WE THRIVE BECAUSE OF THIS SITE.


But..apparently we have to be a TAD circumspect ...
...on our nudge/poke/WTF..how CAN YOU NOT DONATE.....!

....$20 a year for ALL THE INFO you get.

OMG..seriously!!


Yea..I crossed the "NO DEBATE" line....My bad.

BUT.....its a no BRAIN'ER.

$120 this month raised...$300 REQUIRED.

..
...Ya all wanna log on and see a blank page........NO!!!

Side Bar....Scott/Moncha has....would not, never will solicite funds.
BUT..that dont mean this is a FREEBIE!

So...if I/we pisss people off by asking for donations......

.
..SO BE IT !

I get WAY more than $20 a years worth from this site.....

...and maybe even GIVE back $20 bucks of input.


This site is a HAVEN for VX fanatics....


....please...support it.

:p

[Scott Harness]

Just listening to/knowing you two guys is worth a NICKEL a day!:p

[RickOKC]

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/images/icons/icon9.gif Well...that went over like a fart in a space suit...
Rocketman spacesuit scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbAF1EExpek&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL2335CBB67683E83B)
(jump to 1:20)

Enjoy! :laughy:


...and maybe even GIVE back $20 bucks of input.
I just make dumb jokes. I'm probably under-paying. :o

[H3_VX]

As soon as I can spare $20 I will donate. I agree that $20 a year is not much, but too many things have come up for me lately to be able to pitch in. Patience young jedi. :) I was actually planning on making a donation in September until my wife got pneumonia. I need the money for pharmacy visits now. I'll try to send my $20 in October. I seriously appreciate whoever keeps this site up. :)

[Ldub]

Ya know what Dub.....

.....I get your UBER donation thing.

I REALLY agree with you on that...REALLY!

I Don't get it...seriously......I DONT GET IT......

BUT..whatever...we thrive because of THIS SITE.

Let me repeat....WE THRIVE BECAUSE OF THIS SITE.


But..apparently we have to be a TAD circumspect ...
...on our nudge/poke/WTF..how CAN YOU NOT DONATE.....!

....$20 a year for ALL THE INFO you get.

OMG..seriously!!


Yea..I crossed the "NO DEBATE" line....My bad.

BUT.....its a no BRAIN'ER.

$120 this month raised...$300 REQUIRED.

..
...Ya all wanna log on and see a blank page........NO!!!

Side Bar....Scott/Moncha has....would not, never will solicite funds.
BUT..that dont mean this is a FREEBIE!

So...if I/we pisss people off by asking for donations......

.
..SO BE IT !

I get WAY more than $20 a years worth from this site.....

...and maybe even GIVE back $20 bucks of input.


This site is a HAVEN for VX fanatics....


....please...support it.

:p

WELL SAID BRO...


I seriously appreciate whoever keeps this site up. :)

That's the be$t part...since Da Boss accepts no $ from outside adverts, we ALL have the chance/privilege to contribute to the financial upkeep of this site...:yes:

I dunno bout all the rest of y'all, but doing my part always makes me feel good...:yesgray:...or maybe THIS is a more appropriate "feel good" smilie for me...:dan_ban:
The concept of contributing to something bigger than oneself appeals to me.

In return, we get to share info & learn from each others experiences, without having to wade through ads for tires/batteries/accessories/etc.

[Ldub]

I think I hear it coming...http://images.zaazu.com/img/hear-hear-hearing-ears-smiley-emoticon-000672-facebook.gif

[Y33TREKker]

It's obvious that, even after so many similar discussions on the subject, some of you still aren't self-aware enough to even realize when you're doing what you say you're not doing.

Seriously, making posts like the ones in this thread then feigning ignorance about coming across as self-aggrandizing?

It's no wonder human progress occurs so slowly.

And I can do that too.

I could have easily predicted that we hadn't seen the last of these types of self-aggrandizing threads.

[H3_VX]

It's obvious that, even after so many similar discussions on the subject, some of you still aren't self-aware enough to even realize when you're doing what you say you're not doing.

Seriously, making posts like the ones in this thread then feigning ignorance about coming across as self-aggrandizing?

It's no wonder human progress occurs so slowly.

And I can do that too.

I could have easily predicted that we hadn't seen the last of these types of self-aggrandizing threads.

I needed to look up self-aggrandizing. LOL!

[Y33TREKker]

I needed to look up self-aggrandizing. LOL!
That's ok, we realize you're relatively new here. Take your time.:p

[JoFotoz]

self-ag·gran·dize
? ?[self-uh-gran-diz, self-] Show IPA

noun

increase of one's own power, wealth, etc., usually aggressively

==========



I am at a loss to fathom how my own power is bolstered..
...and giving $20 hardly increases my wealth.
As for aggressively......OH PUH-LEASE.......a list of those that benefit from,
but don't donate $20 to this site....would be aggressive :smack:

This is a kid gloved 'nudge'...and frankly those that feel their posting input
(or other warped rationale ) somehow excuses them from an actual
monetary donation, are in reality, the ones afflicted with a large dose
of self aggrandizement

Lets face it,...at anywhere between 10-18 MPG, and given the costs involved/gas mileage etc......

......nobody that owns a VX should begrudge a mere $20 to help maintain this awesome site.


.
:_steering

Jo

.

[H3_VX]

self-ag·gran·dize
? ?[self-uh-gran-diz, self-] Show IPA

noun

increase of one's own power, wealth, etc., usually aggressively

==========



I am at a loss to fathom how my own power is bolstered..
...and giving $20 hardly increases my wealth.
As for aggressively......OH PUH-LEASE.......a list of those that benefit from,
but don't donate $20 to this site....would be aggressive :smack:

This is a kid gloved 'nudge'...and frankly those that feel their posting input
(or other warped rationale ) somehow excuses them from an actual
monetary donation, are in reality, the ones afflicted with a large dose
of self aggrandizement

Lets face it,...at anywhere between 10-18 MPG, and given the costs involved/gas mileage etc......

......nobody that owns a VX should begrudge a mere $20 to help maintain this awesome site.


.
:_steering

Jo

.

Ah, I see. So people think you are aggressively trying to increase your power and wealth. :p

[Ldub]

I think I hear it coming...http://images.zaazu.com/img/hear-hear-hearing-ears-smiley-emoticon-000672-facebook.gif


It's obvious that, even after so many similar discussions on the subject, some of you still aren't self-aware enough to even realize when you're doing what you say you're not doing.

Seriously, making posts like the ones in this thread then feigning ignorance about coming across as self-aggrandizing?

It's no wonder human progress occurs so slowly.

And I can do that too.

I could have easily predicted that we hadn't seen the last of these types of self-aggrandizing threads.

And THERE it is folks...:dance:

Than-KEW VERY much...:thumbup:

The COOL part is...I think he referred to us as humans...sort of...WOO-HOO...:thanx:

[Ldub]

And I can do that too.

I could have easily predicted that we hadn't seen the last of these types of self-aggrandizing threads.

Well...uhhhhhhh...neener-neener-neener then...:laughing:

You should take your insanely massive powers of prediction & make some money in the market...:luck:

Maybe start out slowly, with some penny stocks.

[Y33TREKker]

So...one comment from me results in all that? Kind of rules out any notion of self-aggrandizing on my part doesn't it. :p

Something else you all might want to look up is "self-fulfilling prophecy". Some of you know full well what posting the same old types of comments in these threads will result in, yet you do it anyway and then feign ignorance. As I said though, it's not that hard to predict. An apparent need for drama is an all-to-common affliction these days...just look at the amount of "unscripted" television available today and all the people who can't seem to live without it. ;)

[JoFotoz]

Say what..:confused:

I would suggest that predicting your reply is the diametric opposite of feigning ignorance.

:_thinking..

jo

[PK]

Settle down guys - please.

There will always be those that -
Want to donate, and do so.
Want to donate, but have higher priorities for their limited cash right now.
Don't want to donate.


Thanks to Scott's (Moncha's) generosity and hard work, this site is open to all of the above.

That doesn't mean that a gentle nudge to remind people of a shortfall in the monthly target should divide our group, or be hit with unjustified criticism.

Similarly, let our other less fortunate friends live in peace and without recriminations.

Let the donations flow from those that can, and let the reminders show up when there is a deficit.

I am sure that Scott will give us a warning well before we open up to a blank page.

PK

[Y33TREKker]

Say what..:confused:

I would suggest that predicting your reply is the diametric opposite of feigning ignorance.

jo
Of course that's what you'd suggest given all you've said in this thread. I stand corrected though, it is possible that you're NOT feigning ignorance. :p

[Ldub]

So...one comment from me results in all that? Kind of rules out any notion of self-aggrandizing on my part doesn't it. :p

Something else you all might want to look up is "self-fulfilling prophecy". Some of you know full well what posting the same old types of comments in these threads will result in, yet you do it anyway and then feign ignorance. As I said though, it's not that hard to predict. An apparent need for drama is an all-to-common affliction these days...just look at the amount of "unscripted" television available today and all the people who can't seem to live without it. ;)

It takes two sweetness...:flower:

If ya dinna wanna tango, ya wunna come to the dance...:yesgray:

[Y33TREKker]

...without recriminations....
That's the part that always seem to get conveniently forgotten. Promoting donations has always been entirely understandable. I personally just always found it ironic that this all started with some taking offense at my getting too personal with my observations on the matter and "psyche" evaluations of certain participants, when they've apparently still never considered the fact that by throwing around some of the derogatory labels they were in the beginning, they were doing the very same thing, and that they did it first.

Selective memory is a very powerful thing sometimes.

[Y33TREKker]

It takes two sweetness...:flower:

If ya dinna wanna tango, ya wunna come to the dance...:yesgray:
When have I ever declined the offer to dance sweetness?

Selective memory strikes again. ;)

[Ldub]

That's the part that always seem to get conveniently forgotten. Promoting donations has always been entirely understandable. I personally just always found it ironic that this all started with some taking offense at my getting too personal with my observations on the matter and "psyche" evaluations of certain participants, when they've apparently still never considered the fact that by throwing around some of the derogatory labels they were in the beginning, they were doing the very same thing, and that they did it first.

Selective memory is a very powerful thing sometimes.

Are you serious?

Unca PK, Larry & Jo started it...:(

Ooooo, I'm Stinging all over...:laughing:

Please continue the dance...I mean, twist & spin...:rolleyesg

[Ldub]

When have I ever declined the offer to dance sweetness?

Selective memory strikes again. ;)

You can't even come up with your own veiled insults now?...:_confused WTF?

I guess a better analogy might have been...

Don't complain about sore feet, while continuing to dance...:yesgray:

[Y33TREKker]

Are you serious?

Unca PK, Larry & Jo started it...:(

Ooooo, I'm Stinging all over...:laughing:

Please continue the dance...I mean, twist & spin...:rolleyesg
Well, at least you're finally admitting that your comments are insults.

Yes I am serious. I can't help it that your selective memory is preventing you from recalling all the threads similar to this one in the past. Talk about twist and spin.

And this is what you consider dancing? I've changed my mind. I think I will decline this one as all you seem interested in doing is going out of your way to deliberately step on my toes...as usual. ;)

Have a nice evening and enjoy the "dance".

[Ldub]

Well, at least you're finally admitting that your comments are insults.

I said "veiled" insults...:yesgray:
They appear completely different on the surface...:smilewink

Yes I am serious. I can't help it that your selective memory is preventing you from recalling all the threads similar to this one in the past. Talk about twist and spin.

I believe I just was...:_thinking

And this is what you consider dancing? I've changed my mind. I think I will decline this one as all you seem interested in doing is going out of your way to deliberately step on my toes...as usual. ;)

OK...:yesgray:

[Ldub]

I think I hear it coming...http://images.zaazu.com/img/hear-hear-hearing-ears-smiley-emoticon-000672-facebook.gif

[H3_VX]

You people are all too funny, and all of you obviously graduated magna cum laude. :)

[Ldub]

and all of you obviously graduated magna cum laude. :)

Not me man...I just barely got a HS diplo...thank goodness for shop classes...:_wrench:

No...I get all of my eloquence, my suave demeanor, & gracious humble facade, + all my smarts, from the internet...:yesgray:


:laughing:...:laughing:...:laughing:

(disclaimer)
I don't posses any of those qualities, but I took a test on the internet that said I do...:rolleyesg.:_thinking

[H3_VX]

Not me man...I just barely got a HS diplo...thank goodness for shop classes...:_wrench:

No...I get all of my eloquence, my suave demeanor, & gracious humble facade, + all my smarts, from the internet...:yesgray:


:laughing:...:laughing:...:laughing:

(disclaimer)
I don't posses any of those qualities, but I took a test on the internet that said I do...:rolleyesg.:_thinking

LOL, internet tests are good enough in my book. Hell, the only thing I learned in school was that I wasted 12 years of my life. Its funny and ridiculous at the same time. I didn't go to college and a bunch of my friends did and now I make more money than they do and don't have a crushing school loan debt. Oh well.

[Ldub]

LOL, internet tests are good enough in my book. Hell, the only thing I learned in school was that I wasted 12 years of my life. Its funny and ridiculous at the same time. I didn't go to college and a bunch of my friends did and now I make more money than they do and don't have a crushing school loan debt. Oh well.

"want fries with that?" comes to mind

I don't make much money, but I'm not a slave to debt any more either...:dance:

[pbkid]

:badhorse: <-- beat that dead horse.

sorry dub and jo, you know i love you two, but damn the arguing gets old.

[JoFotoz]

Yer right Jack..the arguing serves no purpose.

I happily :whiteflag: on that score.

But I firmly stand behind the sentiment and intent of the original post here......
...and would/will do the very same if a similar large monthly shortfall
in donations occurs.



jo

[pbkid]

I just know that ive heard the same response from scott each time this subject arises. That-

No one is obligated to donate to the site, scott will happily continue to do whatever is needed to keep this site up and running.

Of course any donation is appreciated, but certainly not expected.

Each member of the site should feel free to participate in donation or not.



And yes, Im aware that the donations DO help scott, which im sure he appreciates, but not necessary and no one should be haggled.

Thanks for the friendly reminder for everyone, but it should remain at that, friendly reminder for the masses.

(sometimes it just feels like this subject is like arguing politics or religion )

[VXR]

And THERE it is folks...:dance:

Than-KEW VERY much...:thumbup:

self-aggrandizing:yesb:

[H3_VX]

"want fries with that?" comes to mind

I don't make much money, but I'm not a slave to debt any more either...:dance:

LOL, no. None of them work at McDonalds. Although, McDonalds actually pays well where I live.

[Moncha]

Not me man...I just barely got a HS diplo...thank goodness for shop classes...:_wrench:


And he still has all of his fingers.. At least time I looked ;)

[Moncha]

I just know that ive heard the same response from scott each time this subject arises. That-

No one is obligated to donate to the site, scott will happily continue to do whatever is needed to keep this site up and running.

Of course any donation is appreciated, but certainly not expected.

Each member of the site should feel free to participate in donation or not.



And yes, Im aware that the donations DO help scott, which im sure he appreciates, but not necessary and no one should be haggled.

Thanks for the friendly reminder for everyone, but it should remain at that, friendly reminder for the masses.

(sometimes it just feels like this subject is like arguing politics or religion )

Well said Jack, you last line is why I stay out of the subject... Too that, I have no opinion :)

[Y33TREKker]

self-ag·gran·dize
? ?[self-uh-gran-diz, self-] Show IPA

noun

increase of one's own power, wealth, etc., usually aggressively

==========

I am at a loss to fathom how my own power is bolstered..
...and giving $20 hardly increases my wealth.
As for aggressively......OH PUH-LEASE.......a list of those that benefit from,
but don't donate $20 to this site....would be aggressive :smack:

This is a kid gloved 'nudge'...and frankly those that feel their posting input
(or other warped rationale ) somehow excuses them from an actual
monetary donation, are in reality, the ones afflicted with a large dose
of self aggrandizement

Lets face it,...at anywhere between 10-18 MPG, and given the costs involved/gas mileage etc......

......nobody that owns a VX should begrudge a mere $20 to help maintain this awesome site.


Jo

.
Well I have to say, those were some convenient (for you) definitions you chose to list. There are others though:

noun. - The act or practice of enhancing or exaggerating one's own importance, power, or reputation. (But again...it's not like anyone has ever actually been counting...right? :p )

And some that even include the entire description with nothing deleted:

noun - the act of making oneself more powerful, wealthy, etc., esp. in a ruthless way

Now while I'm sure we'd all acknowledge that the "ruthless" part would be something of an exaggeration, given past comments, SOME of you could admittedly be considered well on you way.

As far as those that benefit from this site, why is it that things like my suggestion a long time ago for a pro-rated system based on site usage, and the link I provided last time listing Total site Post Count by Member never seem to be found worthy of further discussion? Some people these days seem to get so upset at the idea of subsidies for high quantity users, but I guess some types of subsidies are OK?

And the "kid-gloved" part is simply your opinion...and frankly...is exactly the kind of feigned ignorance I was referring to. You obviously remembered from the most recent thread of this type that I'd stated my donations to this site took the form of devoting my time, knowledge, and effort to helping other site members troubleshoot problems they're experiencing (helping them to save $$$), so do you really expect anyone to believe you bringing that very thing up in this thread was a coincidence?

Downplay it all you like, but as it's apparent that my contributions will never be enough to satisfy you and some others given the stances you've taken, there ARE those who've been appreciative of my time, knowledge, and efforts, and feigning ignorance of those things remains as transparent as it always has. Warped rationales go both ways.

[Y33TREKker]

Well said Jack, you last line is why I stay out of the subject... Too that, I have no opinion :)
I agree that it was well said too.

And as I've also said before, I've never seen it posted anywhere on this site that making monetary donations entitles a donating member to adopt an unfriendly manner with no possibility of consequence. So, just as all members are entitled to start these types of threads and make the types of unfriendly comments sometimes seen within, so are all members entitled to respond in kind (pun intended ;) ).

[Ldub]

Well, at least you're finally admitting that your comments are insults.

Yes I am serious. I can't help it that your selective memory is preventing you from recalling all the threads similar to this one in the past. Talk about twist and spin.

And this is what you consider dancing? I've changed my mind. I think I will decline this one as all you seem interested in doing is going out of your way to deliberately step on my toes...as usual. ;)

Have a nice evening and enjoy the "dance".


I think I hear it coming...http://images.zaazu.com/img/hear-hear-hearing-ears-smiley-emoticon-000672-facebook.gif


Well I have to say, those were some convenient (for you) definitions you chose to list. There are others though:

noun. - The act or practice of enhancing or exaggerating one's own importance, power, or reputation. (But again...it's not like anyone has ever actually been counting...right? :p )

And some that even include the entire description with nothing deleted:

noun - the act of making oneself more powerful, wealthy, etc., esp. in a ruthless way

Now while I'm sure we'd all acknowledge that the "ruthless" part would be something of an exaggeration, given past comments, SOME of you could admittedly be considered well on you way.

As far as those that benefit from this site, why is it that things like my suggestion a long time ago for a pro-rated system based on site usage, and the link I provided last time listing Total site Post Count by Member never seem to be found worthy of further discussion? Some people these days seem to get so upset at the idea of subsidies for high quantity users, but I guess some types of subsidies are OK?

How'd ya like to make a little wager...:naughty: You a bett'n man?
How bout I'll bet my donations are directly in line with my post count, you bet against me, loser kicks in a C-note.

And the "kid-gloved" part is simply your opinion...and frankly...is exactly the kind of feigned ignorance I was referring to. You obviously remembered from the most recent thread of this type that I'd stated my donations to this site took the form of devoting my time, knowledge, and effort to helping other site members troubleshoot problems they're experiencing (helping them to save $$$), so do you really expect anyone to believe you bringing that very thing up in this thread was a coincidence?

Downplay it all you like, but as it's apparent that my contributions will never be enough to satisfy you and some others given the stances you've taken, there ARE those who've been appreciative of my time, knowledge, and efforts, and feigning ignorance of those things remains as transparent as it always has. Warped rationales go both ways.

I think I finally got it...when others donate cold hard ca$h, it's self aggrandizing...when you go on about what a font of wisdom you are,(even though we all know you don't like to "toot your own horn") it's a donation...
I think I just had a light bulb moment...:thanx:

And speaking of "feigned ignorance"...:rolleyesg

If you've been paying even the slightest attention to the realities of cause & effect, you would have already noticed that when you stir the pot, a lotta times you'll "get some on ya"...:laughing:

[Ldub]

Downplay it all you like, but as it's apparent that my contributions will never be enough to satisfy you and some others given the stances you've taken, there ARE those who've been appreciative of my time, knowledge, and efforts, and feigning ignorance of those things remains as transparent as it always has. Warped rationales go both ways.

Ya know what?

I just had another "light bulb moment"...:dance:

Nobody, not ONCE, has ever ever ever ever ever even slightly made any mention of you in one of these posts...not once.
You may have been quoted or replied to, but until you voice your opinion, you're never in any way even made mention of.

So HOW did this become ALL ABOUT YOU?...sheesh, tell me more about that self aggrandizement stuff...:rolleyesg.:laughing:

[ZEUS]

Can we charge Trek in a pro-rated fashion for having the most posts in threads pertaining to site support? He obviously somehow considers what he says in these threads "a contribution to the site", just as he does in attempts to help someone troubleshoot problems. So help him contribute here where it is really needed - funding. However, he tries to say those who are the most pro-active in reminding folks of the need to donate to the site are also those who first threw stones. "He started it, Mom!" Folks, we are talking 5 years ago!!!!!!! Who gives a shoe?! What Trek fails to acknowledge (hopefully) is his constant "do-gooder deeds" in these threads only go toward disuading non-donating members from donating! And what gets my goat is he finds pride in doing so while placing himself atop a pedestal for it!! These threads only go this direction because of YOU, Trek. You need to realize that you have been talking to TWO people in this thread - Jo and Dub - and yet you are recklessly lumping together a group of phantom VXers who have said nothing here.

To that end, you are also helping no-one by religiously calling the kettle black! Just in this thread:

"It's obvious that, even after so many similar discussions on the subject, some of you still aren't self-aware enough to even realize when you're doing what you say you're not doing." BLACK POT!

"It's no wonder human progress occurs so slowly." BLACK POT!

"Something else you all might want to look up is "self-fulfilling prophecy". Some of you know full well what posting the same old types of comments in these threads will result in, yet you do it anyway and then feign ignorance." BLACK POT!

"An apparent need for drama is an all-to-common affliction these days." BLACK POT!

"I think I will decline this one as all you seem interested in doing is going out of your way to deliberately step on my toes...as usual." BLACK POT!

"The act or practice of enhancing or exaggerating one's own importance, power, or reputation. (But again...it's not like anyone has ever actually been counting...right? )" BLACK POT!

Jack said it perfectly, without bias nor ego. Yet, realize this; Jo and Dub are good friends and they typically talk amongst themselves here in an open forum while consuming fun beverages. They both have HUGE personalities that come across in their posts. Guys, you know I love you both. If reminders are going to be given do what you need to do to support that cause at it's fullest. The fun banter amongst friends gets lost on those hell-bent on announcing their spiteful resentments toward what you just said or have said 5 YEARS AGO!! This goes against the overal goal of the original post.

[Moncha]

As far as those that benefit from this site, why is it that things like my suggestion a long time ago for a pro-rated system based on site usage, and the link I provided last time listing Total site Post Count by Member never seem to be found worthy of further discussion? Some people these days seem to get so upset at the idea of subsidies for high quantity users, but I guess some types of subsidies are OK?



I never gave it any additional thought as, in most of these types of threads, I don't read them because I know the end results. Same as the political, religious and any other thread that brings other's opinions out of the woodwork. I have no time nor interest for reading what always turns out to be the same bla, bla, bla...

Even though you will not see me ask for donations outside of the Monthly Goal meter and the link to the Donations page, I will not stop someone from posting if they so choose. Unless I'm a complete dolt, I've not seen where any posting was made pointing out specific people for not making a donation nor their equality on the site.


....and :fyi: , the site support donations are way off.

No pressure..just say'in....:o

Not looking to debate or validate one view or another.

Jo

. (No edits)

the above quote doesn't say anything specific outside of the level of donations is low. It does however, state there is no desire to take the thread to it's usual demise. Why it has to go down these paths, I cannot figure.

It is ok, that you prefer to donate your time and knowledge rather than money. The late great Ben Franklin said, Time is Money... I understand that as I weed through the site, trying to keep it clean and somewhat organized and updated.

I'm sorry if I did not know that you helped someone else, so that I may bring the proper recognition that you deserve. However, you do realize, in most cases, repeat donators (Supporters) do not get any recognition either, as the system only lists those that create a new "Subscription" unless overridden manually by me.

I will vouch that we have high volume users who "subsidize" the site outside of regular "subscription" donations and do so without quibble and never ask for recognition. There are even some who donate in others' names and wish to remain anonymous. The generosity (financial, knowledge, manual labor and skills) of members on this site by far exceeds anything I have ever seen.

I've played with different levels and types of "membership" but when it boils down to the gravy, it's just not worth it. It only leads to confusion and angst. We have enough of already.

As a presently employed detective, I deal with peoples perceptions on a daily basis. To see well intentioned posts always turn into this mess because of perception kills me. It makes me feel the site is nothing more than a cheap whore and I have to ask myself, is it worth it anymore?

As we approach out 10th year of existence, I will be pondering lots of thing regarding the site and the previous question will be on the top of the list.

Being the admin, I can only thank EVERYONE for being part of this family, for your support no matter the type and that I hope that in some way, this site has brought some sort of enjoyment to your life.

[Ldub]

And he still has all of his fingers.. At least, last time I looked ;)

And toes too...:smilewink

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/GET_WELL_SOON_BOSS.JPG

[VXR]

Can we charge Trek in a pro-rated fashion for having the most posts in threads pertaining to site support? He obviously somehow considers what he says in these threads "a contribution to the site", just as he does in attempts to help someone troubleshoot problems. So help him contribute here where it is really needed - funding. However, he tries to say those who are the most pro-active in reminding folks of the need to donate to the site are also those who first threw stones. "He started it, Mom!" Folks, we are talking 5 years ago!!!!!!! Who gives a shoe?! What Trek fails to acknowledge (hopefully) is his constant "do-gooder deeds" in these threads only go toward disuading non-donating members from donating! And what gets my goat is he finds pride in doing so while placing himself atop a pedestal for it!! These threads only go this direction because of YOU, Trek. You need to realize that you have been talking to TWO people in this thread - Jo and Dub - and yet you are recklessly lumping together a group of phantom VXers who have said nothing here.

To that end, you are also helping no-one by religiously calling the kettle black! Just in this thread:

"It's obvious that, even after so many similar discussions on the subject, some of you still aren't self-aware enough to even realize when you're doing what you say you're not doing." BLACK POT!

"It's no wonder human progress occurs so slowly." BLACK POT!

"Something else you all might want to look up is "self-fulfilling prophecy". Some of you know full well what posting the same old types of comments in these threads will result in, yet you do it anyway and then feign ignorance." BLACK POT!

"An apparent need for drama is an all-to-common affliction these days." BLACK POT!

"I think I will decline this one as all you seem interested in doing is going out of your way to deliberately step on my toes...as usual." BLACK POT!

"The act or practice of enhancing or exaggerating one's own importance, power, or reputation. (But again...it's not like anyone has ever actually been counting...right? )" BLACK POT!

Jack said it perfectly, without bias nor ego. Yet, realize this; Jo and Dub are good friends and they typically talk amongst themselves here in an open forum while consuming fun beverages. They both have HUGE personalities that come across in their posts. Guys, you know I love you both. If reminders are going to be given do what you need to do to support that cause at it's fullest. The fun banter amongst friends gets lost on those hell-bent on announcing their spiteful resentments toward what you just said or have said 5 YEARS AGO!! This goes against the overal goal of the original post.

BLACK POT!

[pbkid]

To that end, you are also helping no-one by religiously calling the kettle black! Just in this thread:

"It's obvious that, even after so many similar discussions on the subject, some of you still aren't self-aware enough to even realize when you're doing what you say you're not doing." BLACK POT!

"It's no wonder human progress occurs so slowly." BLACK POT!

"Something else you all might want to look up is "self-fulfilling prophecy". Some of you know full well what posting the same old types of comments in these threads will result in, yet you do it anyway and then feign ignorance." BLACK POT!

"An apparent need for drama is an all-to-common affliction these days." BLACK POT!

"I think I will decline this one as all you seem interested in doing is going out of your way to deliberately step on my toes...as usual." BLACK POT!

"The act or practice of enhancing or exaggerating one's own importance, power, or reputation. (But again...it's not like anyone has ever actually been counting...right? )" BLACK POT!

Jack said it perfectly, without bias nor ego. Yet, realize this; Jo and Dub are good friends and they typically talk amongst themselves here in an open forum while consuming fun beverages. They both have HUGE personalities that come across in their posts. Guys, you know I love you both. If reminders are going to be given do what you need to do to support that cause at it's fullest. The fun banter amongst friends gets lost on those hell-bent on announcing their spiteful resentments toward what you just said or have said 5 YEARS AGO!! This goes against the overal goal of the original post.

Justin, you said POT 6 times in this post.... but didnt reference Mary Jane once....... pretty impressive ;)

[VXR]

Larry & Jo started it

these two causing trouble?

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/BigSwede/Moab%202010/IMGP0195.jpg

Never...

[Etfren]

Well said Zeus!

Trek, never have you been singled out in these type of threads, yet you reply to them and start this mess like it was posted only to aggravate you and make you feel bad about not donating. If you feel that your knowledge is enough of a donation to the site, that's perfectly fine. There's no pressure to donate, but their certainly are some advantages.

I signed up because I wanted a bigger PM inbox and the ability to have my own avatar. Thanks to having a bigger PM inbox I was able to keep all my PM's sorted and sell a ton of parts from the VX I was parting and it made the $20 for site donation well worth it. I'm still planning to donate some of those profits back to the site 'cause without this place I wouldn't have been able to sell those small miscellaneous parts that would be difficult and time consuming to sell on Ebay or CL. Gotta put some of that money back into my new VX first though. :P




I'm sorry if I did not know that you helped someone else, so that I may bring the proper recognition that you deserve. However, you do realize, in most cases, repeat donators (Supporters) do not get any recognition either, as the system only lists those that create a new "Subscription" unless overridden manually by me.

I will vouch that we have high volume users who "subsidize" the site outside of regular "subscription" donations and do so without quibble and never ask for recognition. There are even some who donate in others' names and wish to remain anonymous. The generosity (financial, knowledge, manual labor and skills) of members on this site by far exceeds anything I have ever seen.

I enjoy seeing T4B selling things and asking that the sale price be donated to the site rather than to him, that's awesome. Don Moore was interested in a part I had and I saw he had donated that month, so I sent it to him for free. There are a lot of ways people donate to the site outside of the yearly $20 for a member subscription.

[Ldub]

these two causing trouble?

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/BigSwede/Moab%202010/IMGP0195.jpg

Never...

Well done...:thumbup:

I'm very impressed & pleased that you've been able to move on up the evo, & actually learned to form sentences & use pictures...TOP NOTCH!...:yesgray:

:confused: & http://www.vehicross.info/forums/images/smilies/yesblue.gif, are getting a LOT long in the toof.:laughing:

[ZEUS]

Justin, you said POT 6 times in this post.... but didnt reference Mary Jane once....... pretty impressive ;)
HAHAHA - Thanks, I did start jonesin tho! Then Dub and I started talkin on the tele... all down hill from there. :p

[Y33TREKker]

I never gave it any additional thought as...
I should have made it more clear that I was only referring to those that go out of their way to take their monetary donations as apparent license to make moral judgements on the character of others. I've lost count of how many times everyone (not just me) who does not donate to this site has had it implied that they deserve no respect whatsoever for not doing so. It's happened in many of these threads...including this one. So as far as my trying to answer questions/help others troubleshoot problems then asking for some sort of site recognition that everyone else can see, I've never asked for that anyway. I've only brought it up as a way of illustrating that there are other forms efforts to keep a website alive can take for those who apparently think that money is the only thing that makes the world go 'round.

It's just always seemed very convenient to me that the members I was referring to are those who spend the most time here, but will never seem to acknowledge that all that time they spend here could in any way relate to them having a more vested personal interest than others for keeping this site alive.

To the people who are STILL trying to imply that my comments in threads such as this are meant to discourage site donation, I've given up trying to explain how that is never what I've been saying because if they haven't understood by now, it seems very doubtful that they ever will...and IMO, it's simply because they don't WANT to understand.

To the people who are STILL trying to imply that my comments in threads such as this are meant to draw attention to myself, I'll try to explain again. My comments are actually meant to focus the attention on you and your attempts to focus the attention on your monetary contributions. Admit that's part of what you're doing or not, you should actually be thanking me. :p

And sure, Jo started this thread out innocently enough, but when the second post made reference (no edits) to past occurrences I've been a part of even though I was not referred to by name, I hardly see how my subsequent responses could be considered unwarranted.

I'll say it again. Selective memory.

[VXR]

:confused: & http://www.vehicross.info/forums/images/smilies/yesblue.gif, are getting a LOT long in the toof.:laughing:

as is this:


i AM the turd in your punchbowl....

[Ldub]

I should have made it more clear that I was only referring to those that go out of their way to take their monetary donations as apparent license to make moral judgements on the character of others. I've lost count of how many times everyone (not just me) who does not donate to this site has had it implied that they deserve no respect whatsoever for not doing so.

I've never made any moral judgement of you or your opinion, I just don't agree with you, simple as that.

there are other forms efforts to keep a website alive can take for those who apparently think that money is the only thing that makes the world go 'round.

What is used for currency where you live?, pine cones? In the real world, where the rest of us live, server fees, upgrades, etc. are paid for in cash munny...:yesgray:

I've given up trying to explain how that is never what I've been saying because if they haven't understood by now, it seems very doubtful that they ever will...and IMO, it's simply because they don't WANT to understand.

If that were the case, I wouldn't be replying to you right now. Perhaps it's your "selective comprehension" of generating funds to keep this site up & running that need to be examined. You DO realize, that you're the only one who gets his undies all up in a tizz when lagging donations are brought to everyone's attention, not just yours, right?

To the people who are STILL trying to imply that my comments in threads such as this are meant to draw attention to myself, I'll try to explain again. My comments are actually meant to focus the attention on you and your attempts to focus the attention on your monetary contributions. Admit that's part of what you're doing or not, you should actually be thanking me. :p

More twist & spin, :thanx: for the lesson on how to talk in circles...:thumbup:

And sure, Jo started this thread out innocently enough, but when the second post made reference (no edits) to past occurrences I've been a part of even though I was not referred to by name, I hardly see how my subsequent responses could be considered unwarranted.

I'll say it again. Selective memory.

And again, And again, And again, And again, And again, ...:rolleyesg

[BigSwede]

You guys are funny... :rotate:

[JoFotoz]

WOW, I wave the white flag


Yer right Jack..the arguing serves no purpose.

I happily :whiteflag: on that score.
jo


....and get shot in the back as I walk away.

;puke2;

jo

PS..nice to see the donations rocking already this month..just sayin'...

....no finger pointing/single-ing out, or other abstracts....:snooz:

[Ldub]

PS..nice to see the donations rocking already this month..just sayin'...

....no finger pointing/single-ing out, or other abstracts....:snooz:

Yeh, but I think I caught a whiff of self aggrandizignation...:laughing:

[Y33TREKker]

WOW, I wave the white flag

....and get shot in the back as I walk away.

;puke2;

jo

I've never made any moral judgement of you or your opinion

OH PUH-LEASE


You DO realize, that you're the only one who gets his undies all up in a tizz when lagging donations are brought to everyone's attention, not just yours, right?
Of course that's the way you're going to try to portray my responses. You obviously don't know of all the people who have thanked me in personal emails for calling you out on your BS though. I'm just the only person here dumb enough to think that if I keep explaining things, you'll finally understand.

[Ldub]

OH PUH-LEASE


Of course that's the way you're going to try to portray my responses. You obviously don't know of all the people who have thanked me in personal emails for calling you out on your BS though. I'm just the only person here dumb enough to think that if I keep explaining things, you'll finally understand.

Yeh, & the PM's I receive asking "whats that Ashton Hatfield's problem anyway?", are all in my imagination...:yesgray:

But I digress, go back, lick your web wounds, & post another :waag: tomorrow.

[ZEUS]

STOP!!!!!! Ugh... this is disgusting!!! I find it dreadful that with all the latest replies none of them have addressed the most important reply of them all! Don't just glance over it; take notice to what Scott has said and consider EVERYONE in need of some accountability and some maturity here.

It is ok, that you prefer to donate your time and knowledge rather than money. The late great Ben Franklin said, Time is Money... I understand that as I weed through the site, trying to keep it clean and somewhat organized and updated.

I've played with different levels and types of "membership" but when it boils down to the gravy, it's just not worth it. It only leads to confusion and angst. We have enough of already.

As a presently employed detective, I deal with peoples perceptions on a daily basis. To see well intentioned posts always turn into this mess because of perception kills me. It makes me feel the site is nothing more than a cheap whore and I have to ask myself, is it worth it anymore?

As we approach our 10th year of existence, I will be pondering lots of things regarding the site and the previous question will be on the top of the list.

Being the admin, I can only thank EVERYONE for being part of this family, for your support no matter the type and that I hope that in some way, this site has brought some sort of enjoyment to your life. Take heed and just freaking realize already the greatest contribution you can make right now is to admit your OWN faults and work toward a resolution. This is a great and wonderful forum to be a part of and threads like this are started to aid in it's continuance. Remember that intent.....

[Ldub]

STOP!!!!!! Ugh... this is disgusting!!! I find it dreadful that with all the latest replies none of them have addressed the most important reply of them all! Don't just glance over it; take notice to what Scott has said and consider EVERYONE in need of some accountability and some maturity here. Take heed and just freaking realize already the greatest contribution you can make right now is to admit your OWN faults and work toward a resolution. This is a great and wonderful forum to be a part of and threads like this are started to aid in it's continuance. Remember that intent.....

You sir, are right as rain, as were Jack & Moncha before you.
In the past I've tried to state my opine & then step away. I dunno why I've allowed a single antagonist to get under my skin this time, but I did, & I have sole ownership of that...my fault.

I'm sorry...:flower:
And by that I mean: what kind of a sorry SOB would allow himself to be dragged down into the muck of the "nothing ever gets resolved by replying to these threads" mud puddle. I guess "my kind" would be the answer...:(

I hope you all will accept my apology, & we can move forward from here to a more enjoyable forum experience...:flower:

FWIW, said antagonist now has the honor of being the first ever to be put on my "ignore list"...you're welcome...:yesgray:

[Y33TREKker]

Yeh, & the PM's I receive asking "whats that Ashton Hatfield's problem anyway?", are all in my imagination...:yesgray:

But I digress, go back, lick your web wounds, & post another :waag: tomorrow.
When did anyone say you didn't receive any such PM's? Regardless, you assuming I don't think you actually receive such PM's is just another example, because as with all the other things I've referenced, I do know it's a definite possibility you just aren't self-aware enough to realize when you're making the assumptions you do or how they could be seen as making asses of us BOTH <-- (that means you too...by your own hand)

It should be obvious by now that the types of comments you post are the problem. Explain and explain as I do though...

So, you're not the only person here who can ascribe "selective comprehension".

[Y33TREKker]

STOP!!!!!! Ugh... this is disgusting!!! ....
Sorry Zeus, I didn't even say hello before. I have to ask though, don't you think it's funny too that you should condemn everyone is this thread now AFTER you took an opportunity yourself to post a few opinions of your own? That was like Jo making a full page comment directed at me, waving the white flag before I have an opportunity to respond, then implying I'm a coward for unsportsmanlike conduct when I reply later. But those types of practices by Jo and Dub are not moral judgments?

As I said before your last comment (which apparently ignored the fact that I'd made a direct response to what Scott had said), I agree that Jo started this thread out innocently enough and with good intent, but it didn't take Dub long AT ALL to do his same-old-same-old, or, for Jo to join right back in and follow suit.

And speaking of Dub, wait for it................................................ .. ;)

[BigSwede]

I'm just trying to figure out why you have such a problem with this type of post, other than the fact that you apparently don't know what self-aggrandizing means.

And so help me, if you say "they started it", I'm going to send you to bed without supper.

[Moncha]

Steve, you make me laugh....

On another point, I'm gonna lock this thread here soon... I don't care who started it nor who's gonna finish, just please STFU. Life is not worth it, everyone, give it a rest I feel like I'm standing in the living room of a domestic.

[nfpgasmask]

I feel like I'm standing in the living room of a domestic.

:laughing: Anyone catch the new South Park last night? Reading this thread kinda makes me feel like Stan...

http://www.nofuture.com/stancrap.jpg

Do I really have to eat my waffles?

Bart

[samneil2000]

Ha ha Bart. Do you feel like everything's gone to crap? Maybe you have asbergers?

[VXR]

STOP!!!!!! Ugh... this is disgusting!!!


don't you think it's funny too that you should condemn everyone is this thread now AFTER you took an opportunity yourself to post a few opinions of your own?

father of gods:laughb:

[nfpgasmask]

I think a few of us need one of these.... :laughing:

http://www.zazzle.com/bad_juju_tshirt-235425272489847780

Bart

[nocturnalVX]

...everyone, give it a rest I feel like I'm standing in the living room of a domestic.

That's funny bossman! I'm using a day off of work to catch up on VX.info stuff (and padding my post total), but I am not going to look through 5 pages of this. I'll just go watch COPS.

:badhorse: :disturbed

[Y33TREKker]

I'm just trying to figure out why you have such a problem with this type of post, other than the fact that you apparently don't know what self-aggrandizing means.

And so help me, if you say "they started it", I'm going to send you to bed without supper.
And I just explained that...again.

It should be obvious by now that the types of comments you post are the problem. Explain and explain as I do though...

Maybe you know the history of these donation threads over the last year or so and maybe you don't, but if you don't, you should really familiarize yourself before making such comments yourself because :fyi: doing so makes you appear as if you're just another member here who only sees others how you want to see them.

And I don't know about you, but I found it highly ironic that you would pop in here as you did offering your two cents and treating me like a child with the "they started it" and "no supper" comments (like you're the only adult here), then claim that I'm the person who doesn't know what self-aggrandizing means.

[Y33TREKker]

Steve, you make me laugh....

On another point, I'm gonna lock this thread here soon... I don't care who started it nor who's gonna finish, just please STFU. Life is not worth it, everyone, give it a rest I feel like I'm standing in the living room of a domestic.
Well whatever you do, be sure to let Dub get in the last word before locking it since that seems to be the thing he considers most important in these things. It certainly doesn't seem to be actually listening to differing opinions or viewpoints.

[BigSwede]

Yes you explained it. Nevertheless, it just seems like a whole lot of hot air (hot electrons?) over nothing of consequence.

[Y33TREKker]

Yes you explained it. Nevertheless, it just seems like a whole lot of hot air (hot electrons?) over nothing of consequence.
You could be right. While someone making moral judgements aimed at me is something I usually don't take lightly (as illustrated by my responses in these threads), it IS also important to always consider the source of such judgements, because just as praise coming from someone I don't respect means little to me, neither for the most part does their ridicule. So speaking of consequences, living with the occasional insult is fine by me so long as those promoting the status quo don't get their panties in a bunch from me making a few observations of my own.

[vt_maverick]

Two people I barely know that live on opposite ends of the country are checking out VX's for me tomorrow, and even more have offered advice and solace in my darkest hour of need.

While not required, my annual $20 donation remains one of the best investments I make each year.

[Y33TREKker]

Two people I barely know that live on opposite ends of the country are checking out VX's for me tomorrow, and even more have offered advice and solace in my darkest hour of need.

While not required, my annual $20 donation remains one of the best investments I make each year.
Apparently, it needs to be explained again.

What does any of that have to do with the way some members go about soliciting donations for this site?

Hell, if there was a Foxfire near me that you were interested in knowing more about, I'd go look at it for you too even despite all the misguided opposition (like your last comments) you've directed at me in these threads. And some of you guys keep claiming that I'm the only person here only hearing what they want to hear. Amazing.

[Scott Harness]

I hear donating $$ lets you sleep better,clears acne and makes you a better person.:yesb: and clears your conscience!:p

[vt_maverick]

Apparently, it needs to be explained again.

What does any of that have to do with the way some members go about soliciting donations for this site?

Hell, if there was a Foxfire near me that you were interested in knowing more about, I'd go look at it for you too even despite all the misguided opposition (like your last comments) you've directed at me in these threads. And some of you guys keep claiming that I'm the only person here only hearing what they want to hear. Amazing.

Sorry for the thread jack then Trek, I guess I should have posted that comment in my crash thread instead. It wasn't in any way directed at you or intended to reference previous conversations, because frankly I really don't have the time or interest right now to take part in a debate that's been had a hundred times before. I was just overwhelmed at the support folks here have provided me over the last few weeks and thought I'd share my recent experience in a thread that was originally about helping to support the site.

I'll give you a shout if I see a Foxfire near you. I recall how detail-oriented you were from the Borbets I found - that will be helpful for vehicle inspections.

[Y33TREKker]

Sorry for the thread jack then Trek...
Why the apology? It's not my thread after all.

My mistake this time though, although I'm sure you would also admit that given your previous participation in these similar past threads, the intent of your comments and them being made at this time could be interpreted either way.

As I said in your thread though, glad to hear everyone was ok and hope everything works out.

[mindaugas]

Sorry, I didn't read this whole thread, but what do you guys pay for hosting? I work for a host and we're only charging $10 a month, I could get a free account setup if u advertise the logo and link us somewhere. I won't mention the name so u guys don't take this as a shill since I'm an ex-owner :P

[VXR]

I didn't read this whole thread

perhaps you should have...

[LittleBeast]

I could get a free account setup if u advertise the logo and link us somewhere.

What is free about that? We will not pay the price of cluttering up our site for a "free account". This site is not free in anyway, but we will keep it running regardless, some people come and go, but some of us are in it for the long haul.

As far as advertising and links? Come on. No thanks, defeats the purpose :-)

We are all natural here, if there is a need for site support we will fill it. No matter how many free loaders we pick up along the way, it is our joy to make up for their lack of support :-) That is why we will keep on keeping on! We really are "Going Father!"

[Scott Harness]

What is free about that? We will not pay the price of cluttering up our site for a "free account". This site is not free in anyway, but we will keep it running regardless, some people come and go, but some of us are in it for the long haul.

As far as advertising and links? Come on. No thanks, defeats the purpose :-)

We are all natural here, if there is a need for site support we will fill it. No matter how many free loaders we pick up along the way, it is our joy to make up for their lack of support :-) That is why we will keep on keeping on! We really are "Going Father!"

X...wait for it... infinity:yesb:

[Ldub]

What is free about that? We will not pay the price of cluttering up our site for a "free account". This site is not free in anyway, but we will keep it running regardless, some people come and go, but some of us are in it for the long haul.

As far as advertising and links? Come on. No thanks, defeats the purpose :-)

We are all natural here, if there is a need for site support we will fill it. No matter how many free loaders we pick up along the way, it is our joy to make up for their lack of support :-) That is why we will keep on keeping on! We really are "Going Father!"


X...wait for it... infinity:yesb:

60% by the 14th...:dance:.:thumbup:.:dan_ban:.:thumbup:.:danc e:

[Y33TREKker]

...No matter how many free loaders we pick up along the way, it is our joy to make up for their lack of support
So some will still make comments like this, even after it's been explained so many times, then still imply that it's others who still just don't "get it".

Classic.

That "joy" part was a nice touch too.

[mindaugas]

You guys focused on the free offer but I was also offering a normal account. You don't even have to choose my company, ANY other host out there is going to be less than $300.


corporate sponsorship to offset server, software or development costs, all of which are very expensive.

What sort of development and server costs are going on to warrant this monthly cost? The site is using dead software and the original theme. So all the cost must be in the server itself, and $300 a month is a hell of a nice dedicated server.

[vt_maverick]

Even if Scott is hosting the site on his brother's cousin's nephew's best friend's server for free, $3600 a year is a pittance for the admin service he provides. Somebody has to pay the hosting bill, perform basic site maintenance, etc etc etc.

[Ldub]

Even if Scott is hosting the site on his brother's cousin's nephew's best friend's server for free, $3600 a year is a pittance for the admin service he provides. Somebody has to pay the hosting bill, perform basic site maintenance, etc etc etc.

:_thinking...Hmmmmmmm...sounds like YOU "get it"...:yes:.:thumbup:

[H3_VX]

I know I'm relatively new here, but this thread is extremely depressing. This is the first time I have ever seen a thread like this on any car enthusiast forum I have ever been on, and I have been on tons of em'. Can we all just please talk about VX's? Pretty please!

[Ldub]

I know I'm relatively new here, but this thread is extremely depressing. This is the first time I have ever seen a thread like this on any car enthusiast forum I have ever been on, and I have been on tons of em'. Can we all just please talk about VX's? Pretty please!

No like = no click...:smilewink

[H3_VX]

No like = no click...:smilewink

Just trying to get everyone to get along. I think I will fail. LOL! :bgwb:

[JoFotoz]

Yea, this thread has taken a few rough turns!


I know I'm relatively new here, but this thread is extremely depressing. This is the first time I have ever seen a thread like this on any car enthusiast forum I have ever been on, and I have been on tons of em'. Can we all just please talk about VX's? Pretty please!

The thing is, in order to "just please talk about VX's?"...

...we need this site, and this site has to be funded .

Its obviously your choice to contribiute , or not...
...just as a reminder that funds are required, is my choice :p

jo

[Ldub]

Just trying to get everyone to get along. I think I will fail. LOL! :bgwb:

Yeh, no offence meant...:flower:

Wait'll the 2012 election if you wanna see a thread to avoid...:yesgray:

[Moncha]

You guys focused on the free offer but I was also offering a normal account. You don't even have to choose my company, ANY other host out there is going to be less than $300.



What sort of development and server costs are going on to warrant this monthly cost? The site is using dead software and the original theme. So all the cost must be in the server itself, and $300 a month is a hell of a nice dedicated server.

Yes, there are "Cheaper" servers and hosting available. I've dealt with a bunch of those and we had problems with lots of outages and even loss of data. It's kind of like doctors, mechanics and barbers, just because you like them doesn't mean they work well for everyone.

I researched and came up with a good solid solution. It is a nice "True" dedicated server, our very own box, not shared by anyone, the owner even upgraded our box to a better one from our original due to the length time we've been a client. We're running a dual Xenon, 64 bit, 8GB ram, 600GB raid 5 with a 100Mb Pipe and a TB of bandwidth. Overkill? Yep but I would have it that rather than what we have put up with in the past. The company has been great to work with and the uptime proves it. Unlike other sites that throttle their members, we don't.

The software has been maintained at this version due to it's stability and security. Not that I am not working on upgrading to a newer version but, it seems as soon as I'm ready to release, another update gets put out. I will not put out something that has critical flaws and risk jeopardizing our data.

If you are looking for new features they will be coming soon. In a way, If it aint broke..... Geeez, I feel like I'm on trial here...

[H3_VX]

Yeh, no offence meant...:flower:

Wait'll the 2012 election if you wanna see a thread to avoid...:yesgray:

oh boy, i try to avoid anything about politics.

[LittleBeast]

So some will still make comments like this, even after it's been explained so many times, then still imply that it's others who still just don't "get it".

Classic.

That "joy" part was a nice touch too.

Quoted from Merriam-Webster:

clas·sic adj \?kla-sik\

Definition of CLASSIC
-serving as a standard of excellence : of recognized value <classic literary works>
-traditional, enduring <classic designs>
-historically memorable <a classic battle>
-authentic, authoritative

Wow, thanks for the compliment :-) :thumbup::thanx:

I did not imply that anyone "did not get it", I stated very plainly that some of us don't mind paying the bills around here, and encouraging others to join us in the pleasure of supporting and enabling this site to exist. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. A service is being provided and some pay for it. I would hate to see how you interact with a toll booth operator, or a girl scout selling cookies, or someone raising money for any cause really.

But my "classic" opinion is the one that keeps this site running, and if everyone in your words "did not get it" like you, then this site would not exist. But thanks for saying that being a Site Supporter is "classic", I tend to agree and I think that it is this "classic" mindset that has kept many organizations going and I think this mindset has a few classic slogans:
-there's no such thing as a free lunch
-someone has to keep the lights on in this place
-no free rides in life
-there is a price for everything
-you don't get something for nothing

This really is just an economical issue: (quote from Wikipedia)
"No free lunch demonstrates opportunity cost. Greg Mankiw described the concept as: "To get one thing that we like, we usually have to give up another thing that we like. Making decisions requires trading off one goal against another." The idea that there is no free lunch at the societal level applies only when all resources are being used completely and appropriately, i.e., when economic efficiency prevails. If not, a 'free lunch' can be had through a more efficient utilization of resources. If one individual or group gets something at no cost, somebody else ends up paying for it. If there appears to be no direct cost to any single individual, there is a social cost. Similarly, someone can benefit for "free" from an externality or from a public good, but someone has to pay the cost of producing these benefits."

Or this could be seen as a scientific issue: (quote from wikipedia)
"In the sciences, no free lunch means that the universe as a whole is ultimately a closed system—there is no magic source of matter, energy, light, or indeed lunch, that does not draw resources from something else, and will not eventually be exhausted. Therefore the no free lunch argument may also be applied to natural physical processes in a closed system (either the universe as a whole, or any system that does not receive energy or matter from outside). (See Second law of thermodynamics.) The bio-ecologist Barry Commoner used this concept as the last of his famous "Four Laws of Ecology"."

But regardless, whatever way you look at it, yes classic indeed :smilewink:winkgray:

[VX KAT]

I researched and came up with a good solid solution. It is a nice "True" dedicated server, our very own box, not shared by anyone, the owner even upgraded our box to a better one from our original due to the length time we've been a client. We're running a dual Xenon, 64 bit, 8GB ram, 600GB raid 5 with a 100Mb Pipe and a TB of bandwidth. Overkill? Yep but I would have it that rather than what we have put up with in the past. The company has been great to work with and the uptime proves it. Unlike other sites that throttle their members, we don't.

The software has been maintained at this version due to it's stability and security. Not that I am not working on upgrading to a newer version but, it seems as soon as I'm ready to release, another update gets put out. I will not put out something that has critical flaws and risk jeopardizing our data.

If you are looking for new features they will be coming soon. In a way, If it aint broke..... Geeez, I feel like I'm on trial here...

Good GAWD! Isn't it just plain time to STOP this? When Scott, the guy that gives us the ability to have this cool site, feels like he's on trial!
Sad, embarrassing and really depressing!




Even if Scott is hosting the site on his brother's cousin's nephew's best friend's server for free, $3600 a year is a pittance for the admin service he provides. Somebody has to pay the hosting bill, perform basic site maintenance, etc etc etc.

I agree totally, and many others do as well......and some don't and that's just the way it is, and that's fine too!



You guys focused on the free offer but I was also offering a normal account. You don't even have to choose my company, ANY other host out there is going to be less than $300.

What sort of development and server costs are going on to warrant this monthly cost? The site is using dead software and the original theme. So all the cost must be in the server itself, and $300 a month is a hell of a nice dedicated server.

WHO CARES? And if WE feel like sticking around here even though it's got "dead software", etc.... then that's all well and good, nobody's got a gun to your head or your wallet! And surely you can't give a rat's butt about how I blow MY MONEY!
And I would never be so rude as to question the "target" monthly goal. It's not mandatory to contribute, and Scott's said that in about a 1000 different posts. If somebody doesn't agree with that amount or the way the site is run, then they can always make their own decision to stay or leave, and it's totally regardless of donor status.



So some will still make comments like this, even after it's been explained so many times, then still imply that it's others who still just don't "get it".

Classic.

That "joy" part was a nice touch too.


Yes, TREK, we've read and re-read your explanation(s) many times in this thread. We've certainly "heard" your point as well as those of the other posters.




And isn't it really time to lock this thread now?
Sure I can just stop clicking on this thread and stop reading it, but I guess the eternal optimist in me is just trying to prevent hard feelings and such from developing, just like H3 was trying.

Leave it be, nobody here is going to change anybody else's mind....so why not just skip the repetition ad nauseam and hard feelings? We all know there are far funner things in life to expend our energy on.....

Let's just focus on the fun stuff and the VX we all love so much!.....it's way more enjoyable! :thumbup:

OK, flame away....:flame::flame::laugho:

[pbkid]

Wait'll the 2012 election if you wanna see a thread to avoid...:yesgray:

hahaha so true!!!




If you are looking for new features they will be coming soon. In a way, If it aint broke..... Geeez, I feel like I'm on trial here...

When is something not 'broke' scott? :)

I feel like Moab really took a toll on my Runner this previous year... As I dig deaper and deaper, i keep finding broken parts lol. :_beer:

[VXR]

:rollb2:
:_thinking...Hmmmmmmm...sounds like YOU "get it"...:yes:.:thumbup:

sounds like you don't:nob:


Good GAWD! Isn't it just plain time to STOP this?



isn't it really time to lock this thread now?


yes lock it quick no one should be allowed to disagree with you

[Ldub]

:rollb2:

sounds like you don't:nob:

:confused:...:laughing:

Living life as a "trek toadie" agrees with you...:thumbup:

[JoFotoz]

OMG ..

Those of you who think you put more in here than you get out..

.....more power to you.

Kudos ......:p

But , having listened to the arguments...
... I dont have to "get it"..I never will...no matter how many times its "EXPLAINED"

We enjoy this SITE..because "folks contribute"..

How many of you feel you get more out of this site...

..than a mere $20 a year COULD EVER pay you back...

..I'm with ya!,,,Its THAT SIMPLE TO ME...


NUFF SAID !!...

I agree with L/Beast...I feel CLASSIC ...and embrace all of his definitions!

Jo.

.
.
So trying to stay quiet...not achieving that goal so much!
I have saved many $'ss because of this site..

.
.

[VXR]

OMG ..

Those of you who think you put more in here than you get out..

.....more power to you.

Kudos to you....:p

But , having listened to the arguments...
... I dont have to "get it"..I never will...no matter how many times its "EXPLAINED"

We enjoy this SITE..because "folks contribute"..

How many of you feel you get more out of this site...

..than a mere $20 a year COULD EVER pay you back...

..I'm with ya!,,,Its THAT SIMPLE TO ME...


NUFF SAID !!

Jo

Well NOW we understand thank YOU:yesb:

[JoFotoz]

AWESOME.....you're very welcome.


Well NOW we understand thank YOU:yesb:

..and, if you ( we (sic) ) now understand,..

..I take it you are in???...yes?

jo

[VXR]

AWESOME.....you're very welcome.



..and, if you ( we (sic) ) now understand,..

..I take it you are in???...yes?

jo

for this???

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/BigSwede/Moab%202010/IMGP0195.jpg

no thanks...

[JoFotoz]

So..by all means base your "no thanks" on a (super) Fun photo...

..after hours of us helping others / and ME being helped..

...and a great time on the Stoop with all who came.

So be it.....in or not...it's your choice.

jo

[VXR]

So..by all means base your "no thanks" on a (super) Fun photo...

jo

I just thought it was funny...

[JoFotoz]

Yup...I agree..it is funny...actually..I'd rate it awesome...
...one of my favorites...and even more so if you were there...
...and ...BEWARE...very indicative of the "Stoop"..!!!


I just thought it was funny...


But, I guess my question still begs an answer...

... ..are ya in?

jo

[VXR]

if you were there...


I was there not at the "stoop" though

[JoFotoz]

Yup..thats in the (Sues camera) record..!!


I was there not at the "stoop" though

But...the question remains.

ARE YA IN?

Your choice....

Outta here..4 now!

Jo

[VXR]

Yup..thats in the (Sues camera) record..!!



But...the question remains.

ARE YA IN?

Your choice....

Outta here..4 now!

Jo

R U A used car salesman:_thinking

[Y33TREKker]

Well LittleBeast, did you also look up the definition of "selective comprehension" that was brought up earlier in this thread? While a specific definition was never listed, you at least provided a good illustration of the phrase.

And some of you can continue to claim I'm among those who still doesn't "get it" as long as you like, but it's still obvious that even after all the times I HAVE explained what I'm saying, your latest responses have proven that hearing does not equal understanding(or maybe that should just say accepting?).

As far as anyone feeling like they're being put on trial on this website, how do some of you think new visitors to the site/potential new members are going to initially view such name-calling and "are you one of us" displays? Seriously, this is the kind of talk I hear from my niece when she talks about the drama occurring between some of her junior high classmates.

[Y33TREKker]

Deleted double post.

[nfpgasmask]

I can't believe you guys are still going on about this. It is utterly pointless now and seemly just an exercise in futility (or a creative writing class, you pick).

Bart

[VXR]

:confused:...:laughing:

Living life as a "trek toadie" agrees with you...:thumbup:

:confused:

[Y33TREKker]

I can't believe you guys are still going on about this. It is utterly pointless now and seemly just an exercise in futility (or a creative writing class, you pick).

Bart
As is people periodically popping in just to say the discussion is pointless. Well I for one am embarrassed to think that potential new members who don't know any better may automatically lump me in as possessing the same name-calling, juvenile "if you're not one of us you're stupid" mentality as expressed by some in these threads.

You're obviously free to choose to go along with that no questions asked if you like, and while you may be right about the futility of illustrating how it makes some appear, I personally think it's worth the effort to continually strive for better.

[BigSwede]

Lighten up, Francis.

[Ldub]

Lighten up, Francis.

:laughing:.:laughing:.:laughing:

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/francis.jpg

"Any of youse guys starts some $k1+ about site support...I'll kill ya"

[JoFotoz]

So far..this month...

..its seems none of the new posters/members ( $220 already!!) are not "LUMPING" anyone..anywhere.

...let alone "if you're not one of us you're stupid"
(to boot... one of the most egregious "paraphrases" I have EVER SEEN ..EVER!!)

So..no worries on that score.

What they are doing ..is stumping up a mere $20 a month.

Is that a good thing????

I guess that depends on YOUR point of view.


Jo
.
.

[JoFotoz]

Yes and no Bart...


I can't believe you guys are still going on about this. It is utterly pointless now and seemly just an exercise in futility (or a creative writing class, you pick).

Bart


YES...its devolved..( but, yea..creative!!!..sort of...)

No..it is important......the site needs support.

Without those that financially support this site.........is it still here..???...or silent???

And....( pause for a breath !).....for those that feel they offer better than money...
....they would have no one to hear their words of wisdom....

......but for those that financially contribute.

That really is...the bottom line.


And ya know what...the day I get to tell myself that my input is worth even ONE dollar...

....shoot me Bart....quietly..in a corner...at the stoop!

E-NUFF.....from me.
I started this thread with good intent....and I swerved..my bad.
I dont need to say anymore...no more "explaining" required.
(even if I get "called out"..again!)

We can/will disagree....my side of the "discussion" is clear.

We are all lucky to have this site....
...and I believe that those that feel the same,
.... will contribute and help make it THRIVE.
.

jo

[LittleBeast]

Well said Jo :-)

[tom4bren]

I agree that this thread should be locked. Not because it's such a controversial subject - but because it has become cyclic to the point of nausium.

I'm happily in the group that feels that this forum is a huge asset to me and am happy to pay the annual dues to keep it up and running. If this site were to ever go away ... I don't even want to think about that!!!

Those who don't feel that they should contribute (financially at least), I can respect your decision while not agreeing with it. Consider your free access a gift from the 300 or so members who do keep the site running with financial contributions (yes, I made up the 300 #, I have no idea how many contribute on a regular basis).

[Y33TREKker]

More comments illustrating once again that hearing, does not equal understanding. :winky:

[nfpgasmask]

I think people replying to this thread should have to fill out one of these before they submit their response:

http://img.tfd.com/cde/_CAPTCH5.GIF

because I swear robots are replying now.

Bart

[LittleBeast]

More comments illustrating once again that hearing, does not equal understanding. :winky:

Thank you for defining all of your posts on this thread in one post, really nice of you.

Well thanks for telling us what to expect from all of your posts, we appreciate it, and by we I mean everyone who financially contributes and thus keeps this site up and running :-)

[BigSwede]

More comments illustrating once again that hearing, does not equal understanding. :winky:

I'm curious, is there any way of asking for financial contributions that would be acceptable to you?

Man, pledge drives on public television must drive you nuts.

[vt_maverick]

I'm just glad the site is still alive. Thought maybe Scott finally went all Michael Bolton on the server after reading this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0_S_EdZ_I8

[VXR]

Thought maybe Scott finally went all Michael Bolton on the server after reading this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0_S_EdZ_I8

PC Load Letter:madb:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUUptX0i55g

[VXR]

pledge drives on public television must drive you nuts.

I hate those things:yesb:

[VXR]

I agree that this thread should be locked

of course you do:rollb2:

[tom4bren]

of course you do:rollb2:

Sorry Dude, I spent my formitive years in Tennessee. You'll hafta 'splain yourself a little better than that.

[Moncha]

I'm just glad the site is still alive. Thought maybe Scott finally went all Michael Bolton on the server after reading this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0_S_EdZ_I8


PC Load Letter:madb:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUUptX0i55g

That's what guns and little bits of C-4 are for!! I love the smell of burnt PCB in the morning...

And I do kinda like the idea of the TV fundraising drive... Hmmmmm

[Ldub]

Man, pledge drives on public television must drive you nuts.

I was thinking the exact same thing, yesterday while driving home from work, while listening to MPR...during a pledge drive...:yesgray:.:laughing:

[samneil2000]

Sorry Dude, I spent my formitive years in Tennessee. You'll hafta 'splain yourself a little better than that.

Are you saying there's something wrong with us Tennessee-uns? My uncle grandpa says I'm smart!

[tom4bren]

Are you saying there's something wrong with us Tennessee-uns? My uncle grandpa says I'm smart!

Not at all.

Borne in Maine
moved to New Hampshire
then Kentucky
then Weisbaden
then Aukamm
then 3 places in Florida
then Pennsylvania
then Tennessee
then Georgia
then Tennessee
then Georgia
then Tennessee
then Georgia
then Tennessee
then Georgia
then 2 different places in Virginia

Don't rekin I could talk smack about anyone without degrading meself.

[VX KAT]

of course you do:rollb2:


Sorry Dude, I spent my formitive years in Tennessee. You'll hafta 'splain yourself a little better than that.

Oh, I think I can help ya out brutter Tom......it seems, anything associated with me is tainted...:evil:..... MMUUUHHHAAWWHHAAAWWAAA :naughty:....and since you're one of my Nutz brothers and agreed with me about locking this thread, you're getting lumped into that .... :thumbup: ...:rotate:...
:disturbed



Not at all.

Borne in Maine
moved to New Hampshire
then Kentucky
then Weisbaden
then Aukamm
then 3 places in Florida
then Pennsylvania
then Tennessee
then Georgia
then Tennessee
then Georgia
then Tennessee
then Georgia
then Tennessee
then Georgia
then 2 different places in Virginia

Don't rekin I could talk smack about anyone without degrading meself.

Dang T4B, you've gotten around.....that 'splains alot....I think.....:goof:
.
.
.....OK, I'll help ya here too.......:slap:

[tom4bren]

.....that 'splains alot....

'cept for the confusion years where I was moving between TN & GA every 3 months ... I got really good at it though. All of my worldly possessions could fit in the trunk of my car.

At least I'm in good company.

[Y33TREKker]

Thank you for defining all of your posts on this thread in one post, really nice of you.

Well thanks for telling us what to expect from all of your posts, we appreciate it, and by we I mean everyone who financially contributes and thus keeps this site up and running :-)

I'm curious, is there any way of asking for financial contributions that would be acceptable to you?

Sorry Dude, I spent my formitive years in Tennessee. You'll hafta 'splain yourself a little better than that. (I know this wasn't directed at me specifically when your wrote it t4b, but your most recent comments have so...)

Dang T4B, you've gotten around.....that 'splains alot....I think.....:goof:


So what you all are apparently saying is that in an effort to try to understand what I've been saying, you've not bothered to go back and read the explanations I HAVE provided on numerous occasions in these threads, yet you're still trying to say that the ball is in my court to explain what it is I've been saying?

I guess my last comment should have been changed to read.

More comments illustrating once again that not even attempting to hear can obviously only equal never understanding. :winky:

[VX KAT]

(I know this wasn't directed at me specifically when your wrote it t4b, but your most recent comments have so...)

So what you all are apparently saying is that in an effort to try to understand what I've been saying, you've not bothered to go back and read the explanations I HAVE provided on numerous occasions in these threads, yet you're still trying to say that the ball is in my court to explain what it is I've been saying?



:_thinking :confused: Umm, are we reading the same words? I was talkin' 'bout T4B moving around /relocating a lot in his lifetime....was nuthin' 'bout hearing, understanding or 'splainin' anything..... :_thinking

[tom4bren]

(I know this wasn't directed at me specifically when your wrote it t4b, but your most recent comments have so...)

I must really be dense today 'cause I don't recall making comments directed at anyone specifically:_thinking

If you are referring to post #121, then you've misinterpreted what I meant for the general public to hear. I do understand your original points - I just disagree with them ... AND I was talking to the general audience, not anyone in particular.

[BigSwede]

So what you all are apparently saying is that in an effort to try to understand what I've been saying, you've not bothered to go back and read the explanations I HAVE provided on numerous occasions in these threads, yet you're still trying to say that the ball is in my court to explain what it is I've been saying?

No, I've read it. What I have gathered is you seem to feel some sort of intolerable social obligation is placed on you by requests for donations..."moral judgements" you perceive as being placed on you for not donating. So my question still stands: Given that the site does need actual money to exist, what means of requesting donations for such money would be acceptable to you? This is a serious question.

Oh by the way, I haven't contributed either. I don't want you to think I am coming at this from some position of perceived moral superiority.

[Ldub]

No, I've read it. What I have gathered is you seem to feel some sort of intolerable social obligation is placed on you by requests for donations..."moral judgements" you perceive as being placed on you for not donating. So my question still stands: Given that the site does need actual money to exist, what means of requesting donations for such money would be acceptable to you? This is a serious question.

Oh by the way, I haven't contributed either. I don't want you to think I am coming at this from some position of perceived moral superiority.

X2...do tell trek..:_confused

As MANY here on the forums, that I consider good friends, also are NOT site supporters, I'm having a hard time to figure out where you get the idea of persecution &/or moral judgement...:confused:

Is it all about you?

Have you noticed, that with very few exceptions, YOU are the only one following the beat of that single drum?

[VXR]

I must really be dense today 'cause I don't recall making comments directed at anyone specifically

Well I think this was directed at me:


Sorry Dude, I spent my formitive years in Tennessee. You'll hafta 'splain yourself a little better than that.

no?

[VXR]

:_thinking :confused: Umm, are we reading the same words?:_thinking

:_thinking Umm, nope:rollb:

[Y33TREKker]

No, I've read it. What I have gathered is you seem to feel some sort of intolerable social obligation is placed on you by requests for donations..."moral judgements" you perceive as being placed on you for not donating. So my question still stands: Given that the site does need actual money to exist, what means of requesting donations for such money would be acceptable to you? This is a serious question.

Oh by the way, I haven't contributed either. I don't want you to think I am coming at this from some position of perceived moral superiority.
And given you're quoted statement, how you've gathered it is in fact not as I've explained it. That that hasn't stopped you (and others who also still haven't gathered it correctly) from making responses implying I'm the person who doesn't understand what's being said though is only one of the types of responses I've been referring to.

In what seems to have become an exercise in futility though:


Given that the site does need actual money to exist, what means of requesting donations for such money would be acceptable to you?
Requesting donations that include no implied "moral judgements" directed at those who do not donate for whatever reason.

Seriously, is that hard to understand what's being implied by some who donate saying that THEY do so because it's the "right thing to do" while in the same breath describing those who don't as not "getting it"?

Simple as that, and what it would seem MOST would innately consider "acceptable".

The question you SHOULD be asking of some of the members here is why they seem to have such a problem NOT being able to do that.

The problem you'll encounter based on my experiences in these threads (and again, some of these latest responses to even my last comment) seems to be finding even one of the members who do so who is apparently even self-aware enough to realize that they're doing it.

In what seems to have become an exercise in futility though...wait for it...;)

[VXR]

Requesting donations that include no implied "moral judgements" directed at those who do not donate for whatever reason.

Seriously, is that hard to understand what's being implied by some who donate saying that THEY do so because it's the "right thing to do" while in the same breath describing those who don't as not "getting it"?

Simple as that

X2 well said:yesb:

[VXR]

Have you noticed, that with very few exceptions, YOU are the only one following the beat of that single drum?

:confused:

[Scott Harness]

What is that definition of insanity?
Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.:bgwb:

[Moncha]

What is that definition of insanity?
Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.:bgwb:

Yep, and I'm done with the craziness...

146, now 147 posts in a seemingly innocent, good hearted post.

Here's the final deal... If you choose to just be a member of the site, whether you create threads, reply to posts, create How-Tos, write reviews, test drive for others, donate financially, donate in other ways, choose not to donate in any way, troll, choose to not actively participate in anything, choose to actively participate in everything, sit and be quiet, beat your chest or what ever floats your boat.

It is all gratefully appreciated. I cannot express in simple words, how much, it's just not possible.

Outside of Administrative duties on the site, no one has any hierarchical status over anyone else.
The only perceived status change is if someone donates financially, the color of their username changes. If I could figure a system that would track every good deed done on the site and change their username color to match, I would. 'aint gonna happen. I could run through and read every post and contact everyone to track that information but that would be a full time job. I already have one and three part time jobs so, I don't need another.

If the majority rules, I can abolish the "Site Donor recognition" part of the site and make it anonymous. There are however, other ways to tell if someone donated such as the amount of photos they have in their gallery, etc. So, I could abolish that as well, or I could just make it even across the board, everyone gets the same benefits but, then where's the incentive for making donations or in their truer name "Site Subscriptions".

I believe that the true culprit here in this thread is PERCEPTION. No matter your perception on ANYTHING that was said in this thread, the simple FACTS of this site are;


Without the VX, there would be no reason for this site.
Without you as a participant, there would be no reason for this site.
Participation in any form is encouraged and apprciated
NO ONE is any better than anyone else, no matter your perception.
As long as the rules of the site are honored, ANYONE is welcomed here.
Open debate on any subject matter is encouraged as long as the rules of the site are followed. (Hence the long life of this thread)
ANYONE who violates the rules is subject to discipline.


Since this thread is getting monotonous digression is recommended.

[tom4bren]

Well I think this was directed at me:



no?

Nope. In this case you were wrong. I honestly didn't understand your post. It was written like I had hidden meaning in my post. I 'splained it fairly simply that I thought that the thread should be locked because it had made multiple 360's & was going nowhere.

Trust me ... there's not much going on upstairs. What I write is what I mean.

Oh BTW. TN is God's country. I would never make any disparaging remarks about the people down there ... God bless their little hearts.

[BigSwede]

And given you're quoted statement, how you've gathered it is in fact not as I've explained it.
"Moral judgements" was your statement, not mine.


That that hasn't stopped you (and others who also still haven't gathered it correctly) from making responses implying I'm the person who doesn't understand what's being said though is only one of the types of responses I've been referring to.
Um, OK.


Requesting donations that include no implied "moral judgements" directed at those who do not donate for whatever reason.
This is an online forum. Nobody here is in position to judge anybody, other than as a peer would in any social situation.


Seriously, is that hard to understand what's being implied by some who donate saying that THEY do so because it's the "right thing to do" while in the same breath describing those who don't as not "getting it"?

Simple as that, and what it would seem MOST would innately consider "acceptable".

You seem overly sensitive to simple salesmanship. You are being sold all the time. From TV ads implying you are smart for driving car X, to Girl Scout selling cookies, to public radio pledge drives, you are being sold. Requests for donations are the same thing. People are trying to convince you there is something of value in exchange for your money.

What you seem to feel is some sort of judgement is nothing more than salesmanship. The fact that the salesmen in question are "volunteers" doesn't give them any special status, unless you make it so.

[Monstertrucker]

After reading the entire thread over the last hour or so, I have, for what it's worth, a couple of observations as a relative newcomer and having no pre-conceived opinions about anyone on here, (nor do I sit in judgement of anyone as a result of reading it);

1) Slightly off topic - whatever that was :p - but nevertheless worth a mention; the general standard of English far exceeds that of my fellow U.K. residents, (on MkIVSupra.net at least), as does the intellect of the posters on here and their equally high standard of typing. After a year of trawling through countless pages of often unabbreviated, mis-spelt text speak contrasted by unfathomably creative literary genius by the more educated members than I, it makes a very refreshing change to be able to follow a thread as easily as this one, confusing as it was at times. Thank you all! :)

2) Perception is indeed the issue here. Everyone has their own world-view but it's in our interests to put ourselves in another's shoes and strive to understand exactly why someone might see things differently. Simply accept that differences are inevitable and respect eachother's right to hold another viewpoint. That is, afterall, why God if you will, created relativity in the first place! Celebrate your uniqueness and honour it in others.

I, for example, fully sympathise with Scott's stance on the matter of funding and his reasons for the current system. I would however, for the purposes of clarity if nothing else, should he choose to explain in more depth the way it's calculated, question the wisdom of essentially relying on 15 members each month to contribute $20 and the existing members that aren't due for annual 'renewal' to take up the slack when there aren't enough new members, in a club that by definition, has a limited vehicle/owner base.

I mean, do the numbers add up?

It's not a matter of whether it's worth it. Of course it's worth $20 a year to a regular member and more, as has been pointed out in this thread. It's more a mathematical problem. For example,

A) How many members are 'due' for an average month and can be 'expected' though not in any way obliged to contribute and how many actually do?

B) How many new members can you expect to join and then contribute for that average month?

C) Who's going to make up the shortfall when, not if it occurs from time to time, hence the reminder thread/s?

Either it is absolutely fine to not hit the target from time to time or it isn't. If it isn't okay to come up short, a system must be devised by which 'due' members are either solicited or gently prodded to contribute and/or reserve members can be called upon when necessary by prior arrangement. I think the former would be more popular, even if it means raising the $20 annual subscription charge.

I for one, would not mind seeing a couple of banners from contributing traders, for example, 'sponsors', if you will, as per the Supra Forum I mentioned. On there, we quite often 'nudge' individuals to cough up when they hit their first 30 posts and those that are stayers, happily pay the joining fee. If they don't, they're banned from posting until they do! Those that only come on for a quick bit of advice are encouraged to join and if they don't, it's not a problem, at least not financially. :)

[nfpgasmask]

Monstertrucker, I just read your reply and tried to imagine it with an English accent. :laughing:

Good to have you aboard, I wish we had more international representation. :)

:_beer:

Bart

[Y33TREKker]

...The only perceived status change is if someone donates financially, the color of their username changes. If I could figure a system that would track every good deed done on the site and change their username color to match, I would. 'aint gonna happen. I could run through and read every post and contact everyone to track that information but that would be a full time job. I already have one and three part time jobs so, I don't need another.

If the majority rules, I can abolish the "Site Donor recognition" part of the site and make it anonymous. There are however, other ways to tell if someone donated such as the amount of photos they have in their gallery, etc. So, I could abolish that as well, or I could just make it even across the board, everyone gets the same benefits but, then where's the incentive for making donations or in their truer name "Site Subscriptions"...
And speaking of perceptions, I would like to clarify that neither of those things was being suggested specifically (or even implied indirectly) in ANY of my comments.

[Y33TREKker]

"Moral judgements" was your statement, not mine.
Um, I realize that. And if you STILL don't think any moral judgements have been made or implied by the types of statements I gave the example of, then we'll just have to continue to agree to disagree on what we consider moral judgements.

Um, OK.
Ya know, you're nodding your head like you understand, but I have to admit, I still have my doubts.

This is an online forum. Nobody here is in position to judge anybody, other than as a peer would in any social situation.
Well I suppose that makes it all A-OK then.

You seem overly sensitive to simple salesmanship. You are being sold all the time. From TV ads implying you are smart for driving car X, to Girl Scout selling cookies, to public radio pledge drives, you are being sold. Requests for donations are the same thing. People are trying to convince you there is something of value in exchange for your money.

What you seem to feel is some sort of judgement is nothing more than salesmanship. The fact that the salesmen in question are "volunteers" doesn't give them any special status, unless you make it so.
Simple salesmanship? Apparently, even after it's explained ONCE AGAIN, you STILL either choose to only see things how you want to see them, or simply didn't understand again. My comments haven't been addressing "requests for donations", they've been addressing "HOW THOSE DONATIONS ARE REQUESTED".

If that's not simple enough, perhaps it'd be best to just stop and ponder it for awhile, then pick up where we left off when our usual suspects inevitably start this stuff up again next time. I know I'm not going anywhere anyway...so please...take your time.

[LittleBeast]

I know I'm not going anywhere anyway...so please...take your time.

Yes you sure are not going anywhere near the donate screen or the subscribe button anyway, no matter what anyone says...so we will take our time, I mean it is not like you pay to hear our comments so I guess we should take all the time in the world :winko:

Too bad I can't make any comment about why you should donate or subscribe because then I would be labeled by you a "usual suspect".

As always sarcasm is implied here I hope you know that :yeso: Cheers VX brothers

[VXR]

Yes you sure are not going anywhere near the donate screen or the subscribe button anyway, no matter what anyone says...so we will take our time, I mean it is not like you pay to hear our comments so I guess we should take all the time in the world :winko:

Too bad I can't make any comment about why you should donate or subscribe because then I would be labeled by you a "usual suspect".

As always sarcasm is implied here I hope you know that :yeso: Cheers VX brothers

good one:rollb2:

[Ldub]

Too bad I can't make any comment about why you should donate or subscribe because then I would be labeled by you a "usual suspect".

As always sarcasm is implied here I hope you know that :yeso: Cheers VX brothers

It's not so bad really...:yesgray:

Keeping things in perspective is the key.

It's only an opinion, held by someone you already disagree with, so...:_confused...:laughing:

[BigSwede]

Simple salesmanship? Apparently, even after it's explained ONCE AGAIN, you STILL either choose to only see things how you want to see them, or simply didn't understand again. My comments haven't been addressing "requests for donations", they've been addressing "HOW THOSE DONATIONS ARE REQUESTED".

It's funny, because both of us apparently feel the other guy is a dolt for not understanding the issue.

While I feel I do understand the root of your issue, it is true that I don't understand why you think it is such a big deal.

Enough. This story has become tiresome. Now is the time on Shprockets ven ve dance. :dance:

[Y33TREKker]

Yes you sure are not going anywhere near the donate screen or the subscribe button anyway, no matter what anyone says...so we will take our time, I mean it is not like you pay to hear our comments so I guess we should take all the time in the world :winko:

Too bad I can't make any comment about why you should donate or subscribe because then I would be labeled by you a "usual suspect".

As always sarcasm is implied here I hope you know that :yeso: Cheers VX brothers
I know you SAY sarcasm is always implied, but I still have my doubts because another way to view that is that you're now just covering your *** for all your past comments. Denial is always easy, and since no one seems to be going anywhere, it's obvious it can also sometimes be lengthy.

[Y33TREKker]

It's funny, because both of us apparently feel the other guy is a dolt for not understanding the issue.

While I feel I do understand the root of your issue...
Well that you understand what I've been saying has obviously not been proven.

...it is true that I don't understand why you think it is such a big deal.
I've already explained that. But I agree. Enough. This story has become tiresome.

[Y33TREKker]

Originally Posted by LittleBeast
Too bad I can't make any comment about why you should donate or subscribe because then I would be labeled by you a "usual suspect".

It's not so bad really...:yesgray:

Keeping things in perspective is the key.

It's only an opinion, held by someone you already disagree with, so...:_confused...:laughing:
Very convenient that NOW you two are suddenly so concerned with labels being thrown around.

[Ldub]

Very convenient that NOW you two are suddenly so concerned with labels being thrown around.

HOW ON EARTH was that misconstrued as me being concerned...:confused:

I have FAR more concern for the lost nutritive value of stuff that falls out of my beard on any given day...:slap:

Sheesh...talk about "not get'n it"..:_thinking

[VXR]

HOW ON EARTH was that misconstrued as me being concerned...:confused:

I have FAR more concern for the lost nutritive value of stuff that falls out of my beard on any given day...:slap:

Sheesh...talk about "not get'n it"..:_thinking

:confused:

[Moncha]

Ok, this is tiresome... Y33TREKker, you can have the last say so, if you get in before I close the thread. We're scaring the children!

[Scott Larson]

Finally...Thanks Scott!! :yesy:

[Y33TREKker]

HOW ON EARTH was that misconstrued as me being concerned...
Geez, now I have to explain THAT too? This looks more and more hopeless by the minute. :p

[Y33TREKker]

Ok, this is tiresome... Y33TREKker, you can have the last say so, if you get in before I close the thread. We're scaring the children!
I agree, it has been tiresome. But what's scary is that it appears as if you're now singling me out as being the only person who has been responsible for contributing to the continuation of this fiasco.

So speaking of children, you're obviously entitled to have your favorites (most "parents" do even if they never really admit to it), but in my experience, when you do it, who you side with says just as much about you as it does the "child".

I have no misconceptions here, I'm well aware that you allowing me to have the final say in this thread clearly illustrates that you obviously have the final say on your site. But as you're considering the importance of the funding that helps you keep this site operational, I'd simply ask that you also consider the overall attitude you're promoting for this site by siding with who you do, and whether that attitude is the type that makes others view this site as "worth" continuing to visit. As I said in this thread before, just because I've been one of the few in these threads voicing disgust at the tactics of salesmanship employed by some when requesting donations, the personal emails I've received from others illustrates that I'm not alone in that disgust.

In the end though, no one is claiming otherwise, the final choice of whether to shoot the messenger regarding how others promote your site for you is of course yours. Thanks for all you do.

[Scott Harness]

You HAVE to be kidding me!;wtf;

[vt_maverick]

https://forums.playfire.com/_proxy/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmembers.rennlist.com%2Fsharkskin %2FSmiley_Misc-InBeforeTheLock.gif&hmac=55286c3861863c989b889321e4cb1739

FWIW I'd be willing to sign up to pay more each year if it meant threads like this weren't allowed to continue in the first place.

[samneil2000]

https://forums.playfire.com/_proxy/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmembers.rennlist.com%2Fsharkskin %2FSmiley_Misc-InBeforeTheLock.gif&hmac=55286c3861863c989b889321e4cb1739

Ohhhh I'm really cutting it close then! :bgwb:

[Moncha]

I wasn't singling you out as the only person responisble for continuing this mess, I was actually giving you the final say with no regards to the message that you may bring before I closed the thread.

If I "side" with the "children" as in your definition, I would have chosen someone else to have the final say.



My definition of "Children" in that statement was/is the newer members of the forum. Hence, "we're scaring the children."


If you haven't seen by now, I do not choose sides. I am as neutral in these, and the other "debate" threads as I can be and look forward to not participating. Being in active law enforcemnt, I know the problems that it brings when a public figure brings his own opinions and views into battle. Me being the enforcment of this site fairs no different.

The only time I "side" is when someone is getting picked on unfairly and/or unwarranted. I could have chosen to close this thread long, long ago but, I encourage people to debate by not giving direction within said thread. How else will things every get settled between opposing forces. There are times when no one can or will digress and the argument goes on forever with no productive resolve so, then I take action.



I do however, defend myself and/or the site. Therefore, I post my opinion of the situation and reply accordingly. I don't arbitrarily go around posting or closing threads and deleting post so as to only show one side of anything. Yes, I do have final say if I so choose (Only stands to reason, I am the admin) but, can you or anyone else, ever recall me pulling that privilege to further an agenda other than maintaining peace and order.

Outside of the censor, and enforcing the rules of the site, I wait for public opinion to come forth when It comes to dealing with matters. And even then, I weigh whether it warrants action according to the rules of the site.

So, now I will have the final say.

There are folks that like to promote that there is an opportunitty to make a site donation, how you read and understand said promotion is up to you.

There are folks that like to call out the folks that like to promote the opportunity to make a site donation, how you read and understand the calling out is up to you.

There is no pressure, there is no standard and there is no judgement from the controllers of this site (Me and anyone else having more than moderation abilities), to take part or not take part in an opportunity to make a site donation.

I will be ammending the site to acknowledge the difference between "Site Subscription" whereas you recieve extra benefits as layed out in the "Support VX.info" link (http://www.vehicross.info/modules.php?name=Donations) and an actual financial donation whereas you as the donor expects nothing in return. During this thread I realized my bad.

My apologies for allowing this thread to go forever and sink like the Titanic.