Is This the End?

[vt_maverick]

A week or so ago I mentioned that the engine may have died in our Axiom. To be sure I had it towed to my dad's shop in NC to have them take a look, and as it turns out, all it needed was a good tune-up, timing belt job, and a few other odds and ends to get her back on the road. So earlier in the week we drove down to NC to pick it up, spent a few days with the parents, and then drove both vehicles back yesterday evening. I had our two-year old in the VX, and my wife had our newborn in the Axiom. She was following me.

We live off of a long and winding country road that snakes it's way through the mountains, with lots of grades and blind curves. It was about 10:00 PM when I entered one of those curves, started up the hill, then saw a pair of headlights whiz by me at ridiculous speed. I was temporarily blinded but when my eyes readjusted (and we're talking a split second here) there was a second car sliding down the hill, already sideways, with his passenger side coming right at us. There was nothing to do - he was blocking both lanes, and coming so fast that by the time I saw him there was no time to react. I was going probably 40-45 MPH, and I imagine he was sliding at the same (or perhaps faster) speed. The airbags deployed, the impact stopped us cold and spun him into the ditch, and everything went black.

Thankfully everything was black because there were no lights, not because I was unconscious. No street lights, no interior or exterior lights on my car, and no lights from the other guy's car (his were pointed into the ditch). And then I heard Mahalia start crying from the backseat. It's hard to describe the fear that grips you when you can't see your child, only hear them cry in the darkness without any way to turn on a light. Thankfully I'm pretty tall so I just turned around in my seat, unhooked her harness, and pulled her onto my lap. I carried her over to Sonya's car and we checked her over (as did the paramedics a little later) and found nothing. No bumps, bruises, scratches, absolutely nothing. As for me I had a burn and slight bruise on my wrist and a minor bloody nose (both caused by the air bag I'm sure) but was otherwise okay. So after I handed Mahalia off to Sonya I walked over to the other car.

His engine was still running when I walked up, but no one was in the driver's seat. At first I thought maybe they had already gotten out, but I realized I was the only one there. I walked around to the passenger side and in doing so, saw a child seat turned upside down in the backseat. For whatever reason I just had the sense that no one was in it and I was right - apparently he was carrying it loose and there wasn't a child strapped into it (thank God). I did see someone leaned against the passenger door, so I started pounding on the glass to get his attention. I didn't want to open the door and have him fall out, so I walked back around and opened the driver's door. It took me a minute to process what I was seeing, but I soon realized that the guy in the passenger seat was the driver, and that he was not wearing his seat belt when we hit. He had been thrown first into the windshield, blowing a chunk of it out into the field, and then back into the passenger door. I could only see the left side of his face, which was cut in several places, especially around his eye. Blood was dripping from his chin and pooling on his shirt. I started shaking his leg and saying "Hey buddy! Hey buddy are you with me?!?" No response. I could hear him breathing, but it sounded like he was snoring and congested. Sonya called 911 and when I described his condition I was told 9 units were descending on our location (we didn't know exactly where we were but they triangulated our cell phone signal) along with a Medivac helicopter.

About this time it occurred to me that Dakota, our Husky-Germany shepherd mix, was riding in the back of my VX. Because the Axiom was out of commission I had removed the pet barrier and Tone box from the cargo area so that I could lower the backseat to load our newborn. That meant, for better or worse, there was more room for her to be thrown than she would have had with the barrier in place. I opened the door and she peeked out at me, hopped to the ground, and then trotted up the road where I loaded her in the back of the Axiom. Something cut her just below the tear duct and she had a chunk of blood and skin that was still partly attached. But as luck would have it there was a vet on-scene and she checked her out for us. No other injuries, including to the eye just above the cut. She was very very lucky - I found all sorts of stuff in the back that had been thrown out of my rear door cargo box.

Help arrived within just a few minutes, and they immediately started cutting into his windshield and making preparations to get him on a stretcher. As I was giving my statement I could hear a helicopter flying low overhead, searching in the dark for a pre-designated landing zone on the side of the mountain. I vaguely remember watching an army of people lift him out the car, strap him onto the gurney in sitting position, and then roll him by me on their way up the road to the helicopter. For the first time I could see the side of his face that had hit the windshield, and it looked like hamburger meat. Both of his eyes were covered in blood and swollen shut, and he had cuts everywhere. I overheard one of the paramedics say that he had a deep laceration over his lip, and that he was losing a lot of blood. As this was all happening, a second officer walked up to the one who was taking my statement and asked if wanted an accident scene investigation. The first guy shook his head and said it was "pretty cut and dry" and it was "obvious what happened here." I said "really?" and he told me that the guy was clearly intoxicated. I didn't smell it when I opened the car, but then again I didn't get close enough to smell his breath. I assume the paramedics who lifted him must have smelled and reported it.

What I don't yet know is who he is or what he was doing. The paramedics said he told them his name was Jeff and that he was 25, but the cops couldn't find any ID for him anywhere. What the tow truck operator (who I happen to know because he's also my mechanic) said he heard was that the car wasn't registered to him at all, and that when the police called the owner on file, they said it was their daughter's vehicle and didn't know why she wasn't in it. I haven't seen a missing person alert today, so I assume she probably just went with her friends to a movie or something. But the question of who the guy is, why he was driving someone else's car, and what exactly he was doing when he lost control are still a mystery.

I visited the crash site this morning and I think I have a good idea on the last part. For the longest time I couldn't understand why he would be sliding sideways; coming from his direction, the road undulates up and down for a half mile or so but stays in a straight line. It's possible he was trying to dodge a deer or other animal, but that seems unlikely because he was very close to the first car that passed me. You would think that there wouldn't be enough time for a deer to step out between the two, and that if one did he wouldn't have had a prayer of dodging it. And there was no damage to the front of his car, so it looks like he was clean when he started to spin. From the beginning Sonya and I suspected he was either racing or chasing the guy in the first car because of their speed and proximity, but Sonya was the one who suggested that maybe he went airborne coming over the top of the hill.

I don't know if any of you guys have ever had the misfortune of unexpectedly going airborne in a car, but the thing you realize is that you must absolutely keep your front wheels pointed perfectly straight in the direction you're flying, or when they make contact they'll likely pull you in whatever direction they're facing. This effect is even more pronounced in a front-wheel drive car (like the Nissan Sentra he was driving), since those wheels would "dig in" as soon as they made contact. So I have a feeling that he was drunk, racing with his friend down a winding road on a dark drizzly night, and trying to correct his landing when I came around the curve. I can only imagine his horror as my headlights suddenly filled the interior of his car with light, just before my passenger side bumper plowed into his rear quarter panel, pushing the door a good third of the way into the car. It's hard to believe anyone not wearing a seat belt could survive such a crash, and honestly right now I don't know if he did. I'm waiting on a call from the sheriff's office to give me an update on who he was, who the car is owned by, and what if any insurance covers them, so I'm planning to ask about his health as well.

So here are the pics you all may or may not want to see:

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3291/IMG00312-20111001-1538.jpg

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3291/IMG00313-20111001-1538.jpg

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3291/IMG00314-20111001-1539.jpg

[JoFotoz]

Obviously the fact that you, your two year old, and the dog are fine is the main thing...
...thank goodness for that, and lets hope the other guy is too, whatever his story turns out to be.

As for your VX....its gotta be heartbreaking.

jo

[vt_maverick]

So I thought I'd take a sec to type up some observations for you guys based on my experience that you might want to consider when you drive and mod your own VX.


Tie *** down. And I don't just mean big stuff - we have one of the over-the-headrest DVD players, and I found it lying on the driver's side backseat when it was mounted on the passenger side front headrest. It's a miracle it didn't hit Mahalia.
Cargo boxes facing INTO the cabin need lock mechanisms or their contents will fly out in an accident. I found a canister of bungee straps on the backseat as well, and they were actually inside of the rear door cargo box before the accident. That means the box door flew open, the canister launched out, probably hit the headliner, and then landed on the back seat. Makes me SO glad I didn't have our infant on that side.
At least as far as front impacts go, the VX is a tough little beast. The whole front of my VX is obliterated but my daughter and I walked away with barely a scratch. The front windshield didn't even so much as crack, nor did any of the other windows. The airbags deployed exactly as they should and did their job well. And the front bumper bar that we mock as being scrawny and rust prone prevented his car from touching my front tire and wheel. I can't speak for a side impact (thank God) but I have to believe this is a pretty safe vehicle, especially to be a 2-door.
Carry flares with you at all times. I usually do, but as I said I had the Tone cargo box out temporarily while we were using the VX as the family hauler, so they were sitting in my garage. That meant that when we crashed there was no way of alerting traffic coming our way, and it very nearly resulted in two vehicles hitting us as they sped their way down the road.
You can have a VX addiction and still keep things in perspective. At the time it happened, and even now as I write this, I find it hard to be angry at the other driver, at God, or anyone or anything between. People make mistakes, and cars (even ours) are just objects that entertain us. I'm heartbroken that my VX is probably totaled, but it doesn't make me angry or furious - just sad and disappointed. I really had hoped to pass it down to Mahalia someday, but right now I'm just glad that she'll be around to pass something to.


Ask more questions if you think of anything you're curious about. But please do not ask me if I want to sell anything. I'm not that okay just yet. :)

[vt_maverick]

I called my insurance earlier tonight and filed a report, but not a claim. As I understand it I have the right to file against either my insurance or his, depending on who's at fault and what each side covers. The issue will be just who is responsible if he was in fact not authorized to drive that vehicle. Does the owner's insurance company pay for it, even though there were no insured drivers in the vehicle? If it's considered stolen, do I get anything besides my own policy? These are all questions I'll get the answers to in the next few days. In the meantime...

There are mods to think of. Big, shiny, pretty mods, and smaller things as well. We all know that insurance companies don't think much of their value, so before I let an adjuster take a look (they won't until you actually file a claim - they wait if you only file a report) I started removing and swapping parts. Here's a list so far:


Borbet CW3 Rims & Yokohama AVS/T Tires - They were on the vehicle when it crashed, but all four are just as good as before it happened. I swapped my OEM chromies for them but kept the Isuzu caps for later.
Roof rail caps - Got 'em.
JAMAS rear door cargo box - Got it.
Trooper rear seat cupholder - Got it.
OEM cargo mat - Got it.
Hexomat cargo and rear seat mats - Got 'em.
rowhard fiberglass rear skid plate - Got it.
Crossbars and Thule 696 - Not on the car when it wrecked, hanging safely from the wall in my garage. :)
Yakima roof-top cargo box and Rola hitch cargo box - Not on the car when wrecked, sitting in the garage.
Tone cargo box - Not in the car when it wrecked, sitting on the garage floor.
OEM nose mask - Not on the car when it wrecked, stored safely in the OEM box in the garage. :)
VXC shift plates - 4WD shifter plate cracked when I removed it, so I'm going to leave them
Passenger seat extenders - Got 'em.
LEDs - Got 'em.
N1 carbon fiber mirror covers - Left them, passenger side is badly chipped and they're kind of meaningless separated. Plus Boarzhead can probably do a better job with his hydrographics process.
Step bars - Got 'em.
Kilby skid plates - Got 'em
JDM Mud Guards - Never got a chance to install them so they are safely in the garage. :)


I will sell some stuff over the next few weeks to kick-off the "Replace Maverick's VX Fund" but I haven't decided what yet. But the step bars, OEM nose mask, OEM cross bars (picked an extra set up at the yard the other day), and VXC shift plates are probably a good bet.

[VXR]

those pics are terrible your poor VX:(

glad you and your family are OK.

[VX KAT]

OMG! What a harrowing event! Thank God y'all are OK.
I can only imagine how sore you're going to be about tomorrow. My very best wishes for all. :flower:

Anything I can do for you, just shout Ashley...you know I'm great at makin' phone calls!

[Exclamation]

Absolutely horrible that your VX is gone ): but glad that you, your family, and your dog is alright. Wishing you well on your quest for the new VX!!!

[vt_maverick]

Ask more questions if you think of anything you're curious about. But please do not ask me if I want to sell anything. I'm not that okay just yet. :)

Maybe my last post about the mods I managed to save confused the point, so let me be clear: I DO NOT WANT PMs ASKING TO BUY MY STUFF. If you want to express your condolences put them here, not as the polite introduction to a "dibs" PM. This is NOT a For Sale thread.

[mantis465]

glad to hear you are ok... it is a shame to loose a vx in such good shape but it did its job and kept you, your daughter and mans best friend safe.... faithfully right up to the end.

best of luck in your search for another VX

[Riff Raff]

Ditto on all of the previous comments-- glad you and all of your family members are okay, but truly sad to see your beloved VX in such disarray. Keep us posted as things progress with the insurance and such. Hang tough, VT!!!

[RAZ]

Wow I am glad you and your family are ok

[OHVX'er]

Glad you and your family made it out OK, sorry for your VX you took great care of it.

[H3_VX]

Very happy you and fam are ok. There are plenty of other vx's out there for sale right now. You'll find another, but mainly your family and yourself are the most important. Its too bad it seems like alot of vx's are getting totaled lately. Luckily no serious injuries though. EVERYONE BE CAREFUL OUT THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ebenezr]

This is awful and I'm glad you and your daughter and dog are ok.

[RickOKC]

Just... horrifying. I'm so glad to hear you and your family are safe. I hope you and your daughter still feel ok this morning.

[H3_VX]

If that person was intoxicated, they had better have the insurance to buy you a new vx. I can't stand drunk drivers.

[Cobrajet]

First off, I was glad to read that you and your family (inlcuding Dakota) are okay! The VX once again proves itself on a collision.

It was sad reading your posts as I know how much time you put into your VX, just to have it all go away in a flash. I've been there with my Torino. I saved everything worth saving and transplanted it to a new Torino body, but it was never the same. My suggestion...go Dragon! Close the Foxfire chapter and start a new one.

[Moncha]

Ash,
I'm just glad you and your daughter are still around and ok. I've dealt with tragedy in this form since I was of the single digit age and I know and have seen what could have happened... I'll pray for your continued safety and hope everything works out for you..

[VXorado]

Its great that you're looking into the positives of an accident you had no control over. Your family walked away & thats most important... and now you can have fun looking for a replacement to your beloved VX.

[Ldub]

Awwwww DUDE...:(

That hurts to look at.

Glad that you & yours fared well, you're handling this in an admirable manner...:thumbup:

I'm afraid FAR better than I could manage.

Sincere condolences for your loss, but better a VX RIP than a person or pet.

Keep us posted of any needs or help that the fam can provide.

[VX crazy]

Glad you guys are ok! Let me know if you need anything, depending what I have left from my wrecked vx........

[VXjunky]

Sooooooooooooooooooo...sorry

[atilla_the_fun]

vt_maverick! I'm sorry this happened to you and your family! Those dark roads can really be killer. Take solace in the fact that 1) you will be paid off at NADA value or the cost of replacing the vehicle with another VX within driving distance (from a dealer) 2) There are a few foxfires for sale on the east coast. When it is all said and done, it may be best to buy the car back from the insurance for spares if you feel you can salvage most of it for your next VX? Not all insurance companies are blind to mods, you just need to present them with a packet of receipts for everything, and maybe even similar mileage and wear VXs on craigslist and auto-trader.

How did your passenger tire survive when it looks like your passenger headlamp was vaporized?

[Mile High VX]

Wow Ashley what a terrible experience for you and your entire family.

That God you are all safe and sound.

Keep your head up man...good things will come your way.

If you need anything I'm just a PM away.

[vt_maverick]

Thanks for all the well wishes guys, I definitely woke up a lot more sore this morning than yesterday. But that could be because I stood outside in the rain for 3 hours watching my beloved Hokies fall on their face on national TV. :noy: The perfect ending to a perfect weekend. :facepalm:

There is something I could use help with - does anyone still have an active AutoCheck account? I have a VIN I want to run...

[H3_VX]

Thanks for all the well wishes guys, I definitely woke up a lot more sore this morning than yesterday. But that could be because I stood outside in the rain for 3 hours watching my beloved Hokies fall on their face on national TV. :noy: The perfect ending to a perfect weekend. :facepalm:

There is something I could use help with - does anyone still have an active AutoCheck account? I have a VIN I want to run...

Find another Foxfire?

[vt_maverick]

Now where would the fun be in that H3? ;)

[vt_maverick]

How did your passenger tire survive when it looks like your passenger headlamp was vaporized?

The force of the impact sheared part of the steering linkage in half (I think it was the tie rod) so the passenger front tire turned outward, saving the tire and wheel from being punctured and bent as they would have been if they had remained pointed forward.

Very lucky, but I do have two spare Borbets tucked away in the garage for a rainy day (night) anyway. :)

[rowhard]

Glad you, your daughter, and dog are okay. Know how much you loved your VX.

[yellowgizmo99]

Ash, sorry to read about this. Glad to hear you and all the family are alright. I know the feeling about the car when I had the wreck with my MR2, loved it but it did its job and left me just sore and it totaled.

[Impi]

Wow, I am stunned................

First of all, Amen to the fact you are all okay. You are truly blessed.
Your account of the whole episode kept me riveted to my pc screen. I could picture the whole event taking place as you described it.
My thoughts are with you. Those are some heart breaking pics man:_crying:

I hope all works out for you moving forward.

[TexVeX]

GOSH! That's a rough looking wreck there. Worse impact and damage than was done to mine last month in the bouncing rollover caused by me not maintaining control after a blowout at 60 mph. I am so glad you are all ok though. It seems that the VX is good at keeping folks alive in most crash situations. That's one reason why I'm so stuck on this vehicle myself. Best of luck to you in dealing with the tough parts of the situation. I had a terribly rough go of it the first week after my crash and I truly feel for ya.

[vt_maverick]

I've been there with my Torino. I saved everything worth saving and transplanted it to a new Torino body, but it was never the same. My suggestion...go Dragon! Close the Foxfire chapter and start a new one.

That's sage advice Greg, and I was talking about this with Sonya earlier in the afternoon. I've always thought about having a Dragon someday, but it was always with the expectation that there would be a Foxfire right beside it. It's hard to imagine having a different color, not because it wouldn't be my VX but because it wouldn't be my color. I think if they had made a stock burnt orange color I might be tempted to switch, but for now I think I'm going to continue to look for Foxfires. No timeline, just keep my eyes open.

It is kind of odd how disconnected I feel from my VX now, but I think it's because I've realized what I loved and was addicted to was the spirit of the vehicle and the community that follows it. I love the design, love the minuscule "aftermarket," enjoy the tedious process of searching, finding, and installing mods to make it my own, and as much as anything else, love sharing those passions with a group of like-minded folks. So I think the VX itself is just the "thing" at the center of it all, and since it can ultimately be replaced, everything will be okay.

Now don't you guys go away or I will have a complex. :)

[TexVeX]

I'm right here with ya. Suffering with ya too. Some days I am fine and some days I am guilty of still pining over my loss. I have no vehicle now. And the situation I am in makes it tough to get another. But I have to dream big or I'll just stay down in the dumps. I'll be rooting for you as much as I am for me to get the perfect replacement VX.

[workmeistr]

I'm so very sorry to read this, Ash, it made me sad to read it and I started to get emotional reading the story knowing your daughter was in the car. What a vehicle, and what a owner to not hold a crudge for the egregious act. The VX was the exact vehicle you needed at that exact time. For that reason, I am so very happy for you and yours. Take care, take some time off, then look for another VX when you're ready, and know it will be one of the safest choices you can make within reason. Take care, Ash. 'Bren.

[deermagnet]

This is just awful news. I'm so glad you guys are OK. Just think about what's really important in life.

Mark Griffin

[VXjunky]

qoute......"
There is something I could use help with - does anyone still have an active AutoCheck account? I have a VIN I want to run...".....gettin back on the horse?...kudos

[rsteinmetz70112]

I'm glad everyone is OK.

That just Sux.

As far as recovering make sure you get all of the information on the other "driver". Considering the information so far it's entirely likely the other "driver" is judgment proof and uninsured. The Owner of the vehicle may try to claim they aren't responsible because they didn't authorize the "driver". Even your insurance company my try to limit their liability. You might want to get a lawyer or public adjuster involved, to protect you. You might be able to get some kind of settlement over pure property damage, if there is insurance. The fact that the "driver" had no ID is ominous.

[tom4bren]

Wow Ash, this was tough to read. At least we'll be able to properly set up your hitch on the new beast:)

Best wishes & prayers from our family to yours.

Tom

[samneil2000]

Glad you guys made it through that safe and sound!

[WormGod]

First off, glad you and family are ok. Not so much about the VX. :(

Having gone through something VERY similar, you might be looking at a battle depending on how you and ins approaches it. Whoever the car belongs to can EASILY (and sounds like they already have) say the driver did not have permission to drive it. This will relieve the registered owner of fault, thus rendering their insurance untouchable. There are avenues to try to go after the driver, but chances are slim since his insurance can pull the we insure "THIS" car, not the one he was in.

I went through that for 3 years here after my accident, though matters were a bit more difficult since the drunk driver in the vehicle that hit me was DOA. In the end, I ended up taking the claim from my own insurance (State Farm). Sucked, but I also was not penalized for it.

Best of luck to ya.

[AndyC]

Wow - just read this post - sorry to hear, but glad you and your family are ok.
Hope all works out for you.

[circmand]

Glad everyone survived. I am aware of what you are expreiencing more pain the next day. I flipped my Honda Civic. (About 6 complete rolls) I had the seat belt on. Came through fine didn't even go to the hospital. The next AM sore on chest and back. Pulled muscles from holding on to the steering wheel for dear life. As for insurance I doubt the owner who it was stolen from is covered but check and see if it was a boyfriend or something. You can go after the assets of the theif but make sure they have assets before wasting money. Also your insurance company may be better funded to get after the thief.

[MSHardeman]

WOW, what an amazing story. It sounds like everything happened so fast, I'm surprised that you were able to remember so much from the accident itself. I'm sure it was one of those instances where time slows to a stop and everything is just crystal clear.

I'm so glad that you, your daughter and the dog came through this harrowing ordeal relatively unscathed.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do regarding the VX, and of course we'll always be here to help in any way we can.

[nocturnalVX]

I was logging on to say thanks for all the birthday wishes, but had to reply to this. I'm very sorry to hear that your VX was taken out by somebody doing something so stupid. I'm very glad that your daughter & yourself didn't suffer the same fate. Good luck finding your next VX (no matter what color), and don't worry... we will be right here!

[nfpgasmask]

I hate threads like this, but I am glad you guys are all ok. The VX, like you said, is just a car and that's not important, but know that there are still others out there to be had if you want to get back in one. Again tho, the good thing is you are all ok.

Bart

[tom4bren]

... and don't worry... we will be right here!

Yah, we can run but we can't hide ... he knows where I live:_brickwal

[Etfren]

Sorry to hear about your rig, but good to hear your family (including the 4 legged member) are alright. Like others have said, thank your VX for saving you, but there are plenty more out there just waiting for a great home.

[PittVXr]

Sorry to hear about your accident. Glad to hear everyone made it out in one piece. Please, if you have not already, make an appointment to see a doctor. Too often the full extent of your injuries won't show up for a few days. Make sure you and the kid get a check up, just to be sure. With the amount of adrenaline pumping through your body at the time of the accident, you don't start to feel everything for a day or two.

[jhigareda]

Glad you your daughter are okay man. The machine did its job and protected what's important.

[Scott Larson]

So sorry for the loss of your beloved VX but delighted to hear that you and the family are A-OK! Have you heard yet as to the condition of the other driver? Best wishes to you and yours...:yesy:

[Gussie2000]

I am sorry that you went thru all this just because of someone who didn't care a dime about people's life.

Thank god you & family walk away in one piece,hopefully you'll be back with another VX whatever color you choose from.

In situations like this where a "driver" becomes a threat to people on the road and eventually hurst,kills or causes damages i feel no simpathy whatsoever & can't care less whatever happened to him.

I hope your insurance "hunts" for every single possible penny from this guy so you can get another VX when time allows you to do so.

Damn it ! it's hard to see your VX in this conditions,another one of the breed bit the dust

Keep us posted ash :(

[atilla_the_fun]

I am sorry that you went thru all this just because of someone who didn't care a dime about people's life.

Damn it ! it's hard to see your VX in this conditions,another one of the breed bit the dust

Keep us posted ash :(


...AND THEN...THERE WERE 2493..

[vt_maverick]

Thanks for the support guys, it really is comforting to know that others understand your loss. No new info on the other driver, I'd say the sheriff's office is being somewhere between mildly uncooperative and bureaucratically belligerent at this point. The receptionist told me they would get it typed up and available "sometime, maybe today, maybe tomorrow" and that the only way to know would be to just keep calling. I guess maybe she thinks my BMW got scratched by someone's car door or something. :rolleyes:

I may be missing something here, but what exactly is the advantage of going after their insurance vs. filing a claim with your own? Gary, would definitely like your input on this one. My understanding is that if I don't go after his insurance, my insurance company will do it after I file with them. It sounds like my premiums may go up either way, so what is the advantage of waiting around to hound the other guy?

I work from home when I'm not on travel (that makes sense right?) so I don't need to run out and get something else right away. I want to make sure I'm making the best decision.

Thanks!

[ZEUS]

DAMN IT! That sucks Mav! Obviously, I am glad you are all ok but it sucks how often bad things happen to good people... and then gets worse. I hope everything pans out well for you in this situation!!!!!!!

[pointup]

Sorry,

[rsteinmetz70112]

what exactly is the advantage of going after their insurance vs. filing a claim with your own?

If you are made whole in the end it should make no difference to you. The legal principal is called Subrogation, your insurer can go after anyone they think caused them to pay you. Usually they don't bother because the cost of pursuing broke defendants isn't worth it.

The worst situation is when both drivers have the same insurance company. You are both then screwed.

If you aren't getting everything you think you should you ought to consult an attorney. I don't know anything about the laws in your jurisdiction, but in my experience the mere appearance of a lawyer will make a significant difference. This may help with the Sheriff as well.

I don't understand why the Sheriff is being obstructive, I'd think they'd want you to testify about the "drunk" "driver".

I AM NOT A LAWYER BUT DEAL WITH THEM ALL THE TIME.
MY ADVISE IS THEREFORE ILLEGAL.

[MeowMix]

Just now read this thread for the first time -- my goodness what a tragic, descriptive story. Though it could have been far more tragic. Mav, I'm so glad and relieved to hear that you and your family (including the furry one) are all okay. Your optimism and the compassion you have for others is commendable...even I don't know that I would be anything less than furious if a drunk driver took from me my beloved proton.

...I'm sorry to hear about your VX; though as much as you loved her, she apparently loved you back just as much, as she did a stellar job of protecting you and your family in her last act...and that's what is most important in this situation. :yesy:



I've realized what I loved and was addicted to was the spirit of the vehicle and the community that follows it.

:thumbup: Best sentence I think I've ever quoted on this site...I know I for one will never own anything but a VX for this very reason.

Good luck in your search for a new foxfire; I'll keep my eyes open in the inland NW for you. ;Dy;

[Buffy]

First off I am glad to hear you and your family are ok. Cars are just objects that come and go but family is precious and cannot be replaced when they are gone. I have had the unfortunate experience of being in a not at fault wreck as this. My insurance covered my vehicle and went after the other drivers involved (yes 2 idiots = 1 totalled 7 month old 1 ton truck). That happened back in 2000 and is still an opened case at the insurance company which surprised me. My insurance company went after the other insurance companies to recoup their costs. The bad part was both their combined coverage didn't amount to enough to cover the truck. In my case my insurance did not go up. I just got raked over the coals (lost my butt) on the value they put on the truck.

Again, very glad to hear your family is doing well!

[WormGod]

It basically comes down to "at fault". If, and it sounds like he will be, the other driver is ticketed claimed to be "at fault" by the police investigation and report, he is liable for damages. Meaning, his insurance company. I know some states have "no fault" claims and have to use their own insurance for damages.

NJ was like this when I lived there, and it sucked.... especially when you have a car totaled by another driver, who is ticketed for running a stop sign. I had no car, was dropped by my insurance, and got knee surgery. Go figure.

Depending on how your state handles it, you simply need their other driver's insurance info so you can file a claim with them for your damages to be repaired. I don't think that will happen in this case though, since it it sounds like the car was not his and the owners claim he had no permission to be in it. THAT is where the suck comes in. You will probably have no choice but to file the claim on your own policy. Like someone stated in an earlier post, it is actually a good time to get some legal consultation. Again, it really comes down to how your state allows insurance to operate and an accident lawyer would know better than anyone.

[vt_maverick]

Good point on the lawyer - there are certainly enough ambulance chasers out there that offer free consultations.

[VX KAT]

Good point on the lawyer - there are certainly enough ambulance chasers out there that offer free consultations.

Yes, it's worth a free consultation for sure.....but keep in mind, if the attorney is one of the many "mills" out there, (any that advertise!) they're not viewed very highly by the claims adjustors. And the insurance will think they can low-ball you on any issue$ because your attorney is from a "mill". A "mill" is an operation where they "turn 'em and burn 'em"....they take many many cases, and settle them very rapidly to keep up a good cash flow, and not always very indicative of the true value of a case. Caliper, skill level and reputation of plaintiff attorneys are well known by claims adjustors and defense attorneys.

Because you don't have any immediate, obvious "bloody" injuries, AND the other guy appears to be uninsured and/or problematic....the "mill" type firms will not be that interested in your case, too much work and uncertainty. I'm sure you've already thought of this, but you and Mahalia should be examined, especially Mahalia if there was a seat belt or car seat or anything any where near her abdomen.

You can call your own insurance and ASK if this scenario will cause them to raise your premiums. Be very specific in describing the issues, and like wise, make sure your insurance gives you very specific info and examples of when they WOULD raise your premium. That's what I did for my Las Vegas accident with the Lexus.

I ended up filing it with my own, as I was assured no increase would result since the cab driver was ticketed and deemed 100% at fault.

But since I handled claims, I then took it over myself and dealt with the insurance adjustor for the cab's insurer.

** But since your "other party" here is questionably insured and may or may not have had permission to use the car....I'd file it with and let your insurance handle it right away. And you can monitor and shadow it closely. **

[Scott Harness]

WOW! just read this...so sorry...Glad everyone is okay!

[vt_maverick]

So... nobody has an AutoCheck account eh?

[tom4bren]

Ash,

In VA, the police have 72 hours to file the report. It's no suprise they are taking their time especially considering that they may be also looking into criminal charges against the other driver. BTW, you don't need the police report to start a claim. Go ahead and get your insurance company involved regardless of the legal path you choose.

Tom

& no, I don't have an AutoCheck account ... sorry.

[vt_maverick]

Talked to the guy that towed both of our cars (also my mechanic) today. The first thing he asked me when I walked in the door was "I've heard a couple different stories on what happened, so now I want to hear yours." I asked him to tell me what he'd heard first, and he said the guy's mother came up to the shop on Monday to look through the car. She told him that he lost his eye, was in surgery for 5 hours to fix all the damage to his face, and needed several pints of blood to make it through the night. Apparently he's now awake, and told her that though he had been drinking / was drunk, I was the one who T-boned him. :confused: So the mechanic asks me if I T-boned him, and I said "Hell yeah I T-boned him, because he was spinning sideways across my lane!" I sketched what happened on a notepad for him, and he agreed that my version made far more sense than anything she was trying to say. My mechanic thinks that's the story they're considering going with at his trial, which means I'd probably have to testify to what happened. Can't imagine he's going to get far with that, he was drunk and I was sober, and Sonya witnessed the whole thing.

Anywho, I'm going to drive down to the sheriff's office tomorrow because they STILL haven't gotten back to me on the accident report. I went by the garage today and picked up my Kilby plates, nerf/step bars, and LEDs. Didn't have the tools I needed to remove the seat extenders, so I'll get those in the morning. That just leaves the VXC shift plate around the gear shifter (already got the one from the 4L/TOD shifter). Once I get those last few items I'll call a few body shops to see if I can get an estimate before the adjuster comes out. Just wish the sheriff's office would get back to me, I could have filed with my insurance days ago. :rolleyes:

[VX KAT]

I wouldn't wait any longer Mav......call 'em.

[vt_maverick]

Probably will do it tonight - just need to get those few last mods out and then I'll call. Think you're right Sue, if he and his mom are that delusional / deceptive about what really happened I think they'd probably say anything to avoid liability. Gotta figure GEICO's lawyers will tear him up a lot more than anyone I could afford to hire.

[tom4bren]

The police report should be the 'be-all, end-all' on applying the poo poo to the other guy's version of the story. It'll be a no brainer that you were in your lane when the accident happened & the fact that he was sideways in the road will close the case.

When I got sammiched in Wifey's Amigo, the kid at the rear of the accident went around telling everyone that I caused the accident because I was all over the road. The fact that all 4 vehicles were in a perfectly straight line with a single point of impact from the rear ... well that told the true story.

[WormGod]

Considering Bud Wiser was his only witness, I doubt he has a leg to stand on. Let him talk. Every drunk can justify their actions, after the fact.

Your duties for the day:

1 - CALL A LAWYER ALREADY! (I had one on in my hospital room the second I was taken from trauma to ICU. Luckily, my lawyer is a family friend though).

2 - Get that report! What sort of po-dunk town do you live in? Tell Cleatus to get a move on! :p

Oh, and don't worry, it will never go to court. Insurance companies lose too much time and $$ in courts. They much prefer settlement and if that doesn't flow, it is usually resolved in facilitative mediation.

[tom4bren]

Oh, and don't worry, it will never go to court. Insurance companies lose too much time and $$ in courts. They much prefer settlement and if that doesn't flow, it is usually resolved in facilitative mediation.

True Dat.

Based on the guys medical bills, it's likely that the cost of replacing your VX is just a drop in the bucket.

It sux that the kid lost an eye & is likely to have permanent facial scars but ... he did it to himself.

[rsteinmetz70112]

I missed something.

In your original post you said the car was the Owner's Daughter's.
In the update you say the Drivers Mom went by to look at the car.

Is this guy related to the Owner?

As far as what Mom said I wouldn't worry. She wasn't there and therefore can't testify, except to say "My Boy is a Good Boy and Never Did Anything Wrong" and we all know "Good Boys Always Tell Mom the Truth". There should be physical evidence of his spin.

Also since she went by apparently Mom had some kind of permission. I doubt the shop would let just anyone rifle through a wrecked car. If he truly didn't have permission or if they were considering criminal charges I'd assume the local LEOs would be all over it.

Good Luck and don't get too bogged down in this. I hope this all works out for you soon.

[vt_maverick]

Okay, I FINALLY got the accident report this afternoon. Here's what it says:

Although they have a license # down for him it says "N" under the DL section - that either means his license had been revoked, or that he just didn't have it with him.
They are charging him under VA 18.2-266 - Driving Under the Influence
He did not own the vehicle and was not listed on the owner's insurance as far as we know
The cops estimate he was traveling 63 in a 55 when he went into the spin/skid
They also estimate I was traveling 55 in a 55 (that's BS though, I definitely was not going that fast - but the important thing is that it's within the limit)
I am not being charged with anything
The report has check marks indicated for "Fail to Maintain Proper Control" and "Drinking - Obviously Drunk" (this is apparently a gradient that starts at impaired)
The report says that no test was administered to determine his alcohol level - this seems ominous to me...

There is a fantastic diagram on the last page that depicts exactly what I've been verbally describing. Interesting to note is that the cops believe he traveled off the right shoulder of the road right at the top of the hill, overcorrected to his left, and thereby put his car into the spin. If I get time I'll scan and post it.

So yeah, the report should (hopefully) leave no doubt with insurance or anyone else as to who is at fault. I was never worried about the guy's mom, obviously she wants to believe he isn't the victim of his own stupidity and since she wasn't there it doesn't really matter.

Now to call insurance and get a feel for my options (not committing either way at this point).

[vt_maverick]

I missed something.

In your original post you said the car was the Owner's Daughter's.
In the update you say the Drivers Mom went by to look at the car.

Is this guy related to the Owner?

My understanding is that the owners of the car are the parents of the girl the driver was dating. It was her car but no doubt he drove it from time to time. The person who came down to the garage was the driver's mother.

I'm pretty sure my mechanic buddy doesn't get paid enough to try and keep people out of wrecked cars that don't belong to them. Besides, they all just sit out front of the garage anyway. Talk about sad, I pass my wrecked VX every time I drive to town now. :(

[Gussie2000]

You got all needed to start your claim against their insurance company.
Get your insurance involve to support you and of course a lawyer to back you up.

Their insurance will try to low ball you and don't accept any settlement 'till you get what you deserve,period.

Good luck !

[Grif]

Ok just read this thread... been busy with other non-VX stuff for a couple weeks.

Sorry Ash, that is just horrible. I'm glad of course that your loved ones are OK (besides the VX of course).

I re-upped for Autocheck, so what you need bro?

[RickOKC]

Another issue this brings up... what the heck is the deal with the younger set not wearing seat belts?!?!?

We never used them when I was growing up, but as soon as the laws went into effect in the late 1980s everybody I ever encountered all started buckling up 100% of the time. I was about 20 years old when the laws were passed and 25 years later I have never failed to ride in or drive a vehicle without wearing a belt. It only took a few weeks before it became an automatic thing that I never thought about again.

Why do so few of the 20-somethings (and teens) TODAY not wear them? I read story after story about Driver A walking away from an accident due to seat belt use and Driver B going to the hospital or dying cuz they were driving "nekkid." This is a generation that should have never lived in a "seat belt optional" world -- I just don't get it. Anybody have any insight?

[RickOKC]

1. Although they have a license # down for him it says "N" under the DL section - that either means his license had been revoked, or that he just didn't have it with him.

I wonder if you could web-search his name in the public records to find his police record (that's something that is available in OK.) I would not be surprised in the least to learn his license was suspended due to a previous DUI (another thing I read in the newspaper on a regular basis.) :rolleyes:

[Ldub]

This is a generation that should have never lived in a "seat belt optional" world -- I just don't get it. Anybody have any insight?

It must interfere with texting...:yesgray:

If it were legal to roll down my window & bag my limit of "text monkeys", I'd have no problem with it.

[RickOKC]

If it were legal to roll down my window & bag my limit of "text monkeys", I'd have no problem with it.Until it's legal, I'll swear under oath that you were at my house at the time and I was assisting while you were working on my VX.*

* Disclaimer: Oh crap. I just realized who I'm talking to. The above unsolicited offer of perjury only applies if "bagging" refers to reaching in to an offenders vehicle, snatching the cellular device out of their hands and smashing it on the ground as they look on in shock because that should not only be legal, but also encouraged. Just sayin'. Please do not consider this as legal advice or perform these actions until they actually become legal. If fact, now that I've thought things through, I fully rescind my previous offer of perjury until all of this becomes legal so that I'm not actually committing perjury. Yeah, I know... "wuss." Contact your elected officials to demand stiffer penalties to texters and help return the roads to those who take driving seriously. Offer void in Rhode Island; I don't know why but Rhode Island always seems to bar stuff so I thought I better mention it here just in case. Tell "Jack"... "Goober says, 'hey'."

[ZEUS]

It's simple to me - it's an unconstitutional law. Maybe I am more protected with a belt, maybe not - depends on the wreck. I support pro-choice in many things. Besides, population control needs all the help in the world... pun intended.
Another issue this brings up... what the heck is the deal with the younger set not wearing seat belts?!?!?

We never used them when I was growing up, but as soon as the laws went into effect in the late 1980s everybody I ever encountered all started buckling up 100% of the time. I was about 20 years old when the laws were passed and 25 years later I have never failed to ride in or drive a vehicle without wearing a belt. It only took a few weeks before it became an automatic thing that I never thought about again.

Why do so few of the 20-somethings (and teens) TODAY not wear them? I read story after story about Driver A walking away from an accident due to seat belt use and Driver B going to the hospital or dying cuz they were driving "nekkid." This is a generation that should have never lived in a "seat belt optional" world -- I just don't get it. Anybody have any insight?

[rsteinmetz70112]

My understanding is that the owners of the car are the parents of the girl the driver was dating.

Thanks for filling in the blanks, It's about what I expected.

I wonder what the girl's parent feel about this?

[vt_maverick]

Okay guys, do me a favor and don't debate stuff in this thread - I'll be happy to start a new one for you. Thanks. :o

So turns out this guy is a real piece of work. Here's the case history I found on him just by searching the closest three counties alone:


11/21/2003 - Reckless Driving - Reduced to Improper Driving
04/04/2004 - Failure to Obey Stop Sign - Convicted
05/03/2004 - Defective Brake Lights - Convicted
08/01/2004 - Underage Purchase / Possession of Alcohol - Convicted
08/02/2006 - Misdemeanor Assault - Convicted
12/16/2007 - Armed Burglary Entering Building to Rape, Unlawful Wounding / Shoot/Stab in Commitment of a Felony - Reduced to Brandishing a Fire Arm and Assault and Battery
03/19/2009 - Phone harassment - Dismissed
09/02/2009 - Public Intoxication - Convicted
09/09/2009 - Inhaling Drugs, i.e. Smokin' the Reefer - Dismissed
07/02/2010 - Public Intoxication - Convicted
09/15/2010 - Public Intoxication - Convicted / Misdemeanor Assault - Dismissed
09/30/2011 - DWI - 3rd Within 10 Years, Driving with Suspended / Revoked / Restricted License - TBD


Virginia's website doesn't let you run a full rap sheet by a person's name, so you have to go into each jurisdiction and search individually. We know this list probably isn't anywhere near complete as evidenced by the fact that he's being charged with his 3rd DWI within 10 years and I can't find the other two (means they probably happened elsewhere in Virginia).

The law requires the judge to sentence him to no less than 3 months in jail and a $1000 fine if convicted. Hardly seems appropriate for a guy that seems to define the term "habitual offender." :noy:

[RickOKC]

Okay guys, do me a favor and don't debate stuff in this thread - I'll be happy to start a new one for you. Thanks. :o High five! We don't need more drawn out arguments here nor do I have any interest in participating in them. I may be wrong, but I think Zeus & I are actually in agreement - he simply made a comment based on an (overemphasized) part of what I wrote (due to my meandering thoughts and poor writing skills) yet we are in agreement on that, too! :thumbup: :)

Wow, I wasn't expecting the rap sheet to be THAT bad, but the habitual DUI stuff was no surprise. The real surprise will be if he actually gets the minimum "mandatory" sentence.

[rsteinmetz70112]

Look like you have it under control.

I'm not going to add anything except since he obviously couldn't get insurance you need to get a lawyer for yourself.

[VX KAT]

- he simply made a comment based on an (overemphasized) part of what I wrote (due to my meandering thoughts and poor writing skills) too! :thumbup: :)


But Rick if your writing skills are so poor, why do I understand them so clearly....:goof::_thinking
.
.
.
.
.
oh, sorry, my thoughts were meandering...:goof:....back on topic...

.
.
.
You can also discuss it with your insurance company. That's what I did with my accident in January. After I determined it didn't meet ANY criteria that would allow them to raise my rates, I reported it to both the cab driver's insurer as well as my own.

I then, basically picked their brain on how the insurance worked, exactly. You can also ask how these different scenarios could play out, and what course of action is best in each scenario. By different scenarios I mean, 1) legal owner claims drivers stole their vehicle, 2) legal owner doesn't have any coverage that would cover driver, etc....etc...

I absolutely hate auto insurance for some reason, goes back to when I was taking a graduate course in insurance...when I got to the Auto insurance class, I ended up dropping out and went and got an MBA...at least I understand how that stuff works! :laugho: So, I really took advantage of asking questions to my own insurance co, getting up to speed, and then I took over handling the claim.


Also, you'll want to know specifically how your State handles each element of the damages. (For example, my accident occurred in Nevada, yet I reside in AZ, but the laws of Nevada prevail because that's where it occurred. They're telling me there's no "Diminished Value" in Nevada...oh joy....:rollo:.....you can't believe how the carfax/autocheck score dropped due to this accident. Whether we like it or not, Carfax/Autocheck data has an impact on resale value. I'm still fighting with them over this. :_brickwal I'm not real keen on taking a $12,000 drop in resale value due to the other party's negligence. Even though I haven't realized that loss YET, it's still part of the damages to me/vehicle.)


My accident also involved a ticketed offense on the other driver, and a police determination of their 100% fault. Actually, the cabbie's insurance/claims adjustors were falling all over themselves to pay for the car repairs, my medical bills, they forwarded us a check to cover our $1,000 deductible on our policy, all due to the 100% liability/fault hanging over them. You're now in the same scenario, so keep that in mind and mention it often...especially since your fact set is far worse than mine. Alcohol, more physical damages to your vehicle, potentially an unlicensed driver, potential unauthorized use of vehicle, etc...etc..etc..


Ashley with just that snapshot of info you've found, I'd discuss that info at length with your insurer and try to get a gauge on what kind of responses/info you get back from them. If they don't seem as concerned as you are about the possible complicating matters in this, you should at least consult a reputable attorney.

One other thought....It appears from what you've said, there's minimal physical damages and injuries, (thankfully!) so don't be surprised if an attorney isn't that "interested" in taking your case....their bread and butter is in personal injuries sustained.....not the property damage.
But I would at least want to discuss the situation with a knowledgeable attorney so you know how to proceed to make sure you get ALL the appropriate reimbursement for the value of your truck etc...
And of course you still want to make dang sure Mahalia's abdomen etc is OK. Definitely get a doctor visit for her and you too, just to check you guys out. It's been what, 5 -6 days....there still could be some residual issues like strains that could manifest themselves.

You're a very analytical and methodical guy, you'll digest all the info and chart a course that's best. You'll just need to shadow it and follow it closely as your insurer handles it. It's just a giant hassle, that will go on for a long time, and make you crazy....all for something that was a result of somebody else's really bad judgement! :_brickwal

[WormGod]

"The report says that no test was administered to determine his alcohol level - this seems ominous to me..."

Worry not, it was administered at the hospital. Just means the police did not do it. The hospital has to take blood for record and simply to be sure what they are working with since he was going into surgery. It will be in an insurance report, no doubt, just not on the initial police report. You will be able to find that out later too. They will need it too so that they can press the DUI charge on him or it wont stand up in court.

You sound like you "may be" holding the golden ticket though. The only issue you may run into is the fact that it was not his vehicle. You will have to wait and see if the "owner" claims he did not have permission to use it. If not, that is the only battle you may be looking at.

How come it's never billionaires that hit us? Set me up "comfortably" for the rest of my life and all....

[RICHARD PAYNE]

Wow, how really scarry; your heart must have skipped two beats. Glad everyone is ok.

[vt_maverick]

Called GEICO and they say this qualifies as a "no fault" accident and that my premiums won't increase as a result of filing against my own insurance. :D I spent a good amount of time on the phone with their claims department trying to get a good understanding of the ups/downs of filing against my policy or against theirs, and this is what they said:


File Against My Policy - GEICO will cover storage fees at the garage, rental car if I need it, the cost of the tow, repairs if possible, etc etc etc. All that will happen very quickly because I have a policy with them, but I will have to pitch in my $500 deductible before anything really gets going (unless it's totaled, at which point my deductible is deducted from the final payout). GEICO will pursue reimbursement with the other insurance company and will refund me my deductible if/when they get reimbursed. Interesting note here, if GEICO pays me $7500 they will invoice the other company for $8000, and even if they get less than that, my $500 refund comes off the top (they absorb any loss).
File Against the Other Insurance Company - The only real advantage here is that IF you're willing to wait for reimbursement, you won't have to put up your deductible to get things fixed (if that's possible). But the problem is the waiting, which in this specific case could be even worse than normal. The claims agent confirmed that the issue of owner permission to drive certainly could be a sticking point with the other insurance company, and that they probably won't do anything until they interview everyone involved in the event. Given that the other driver was arraigned on Friday and may or may not be in jail right now, it could take a LONG time to get his statement. Bottom line here is that I don't have a policy with the other company, so they have every motivation to drag the process out forever. And at the end of that long waiting period, the payout will very likely be the same or less than what GEICO would pay much much sooner.


So I've gone ahead and filed a claim with GEICO and should meet with the adjuster at the garage by Tuesday or Wednesday. Never having been through this before, I was under the impression that they just give you the NADA book value and that's the end of it. But as the claims agent was describing the whole process of valuation and total loss payout she said something that I don't know she realized she said: that the check gets cut and mailed out within 7-10 days after a price/value is negotiated. I didn't pursue it further because I figure it's a question for the adjuster, but it sounds like some himming and hawing may be in order. I suppose that stage is where folks sometimes get lawyers involved - if the agent tries to give you a crap value for your truck.

So that brings me to another question for the crowd: what would you guys say I should look for as a ball park value for my VX? It had 73K on the clock and a few dents/dings/chips/scratches on the body, mostly on the leading edge of the hood.

Opinions appreciated. :yesy:

[Ldub]

on valuation, but I'm glad to hear things are moving forward...:thumbup:

:luck: with the process...:yesgray:

[rsteinmetz70112]

What would you guys say I should look for as a ball park value for my VX?

I'd start with current/recent ads for VX's with similar mileage. There are so few VXs that I don't think any of the standard references are reliable. Plus there has been an increase in all used care prices in recent months. There was even an article in the WSJ about it.

I'd note that all of the ones Richard currently has for sale have more mileage than yours.

Insurance is supposed to "make you whole". Based on Richards prices I'd ask for $9,900 + tax title license and shipping.

[vt_maverick]

Thanks for the input, I'm going to be putting together a pretty comprehensive documentation set before I meet the adjuster this week. Comps (my own FS ads here are helpful in retrospect), receipts for mods, NADA and KBB estimates, etc. - basically anything and everything that would help make the case that it's not worth the $5425 NADA Rough Trade-In value (that's the bottom end of NADA's scale, so I'd like to think that's the minimum he would offer).

No guesses from anyone else? C'mon guys, I hope nobody's worried about hurting my feelings here... ;)

[vt_maverick]

Just snapped these yesterday, thought you guys might be interested to see how the other car fared in the crash. I've never been a proponent of buying massive vehicles to be more safe, but boy does this make me double think ever owning something as small as a Suzuki X-90. If this is what a two-door SUV can do, what would an Explorer or 4Runner have done?

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3291/medium/IMG00317-20111007-1714.jpg

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3291/medium/IMG00316-20111007-1714.jpg

[VX KAT]

:freek::freek::freek::freek:
I'm REALLY impressed with the VX! Granted, it had the full front end with engine and all vs. a rear door, wheel, rear fender to take the impact, but still, very impressive. I gotta go back and read your description as I thought it would have been his driver's side based on how I recall the description.

[TexVeX]

Wow, that's a lot of damage.

Funny you mention what you know I'm thinking of getting. :looko:
Yeah, Maybe I have a death wish. Ok, bad joke.
But I do know the risks. Honestly I'd prefer to never drive anything but a vehicross on account of how a wreck would have to be super bad to hurt someone in a VX. (assuming they are properly buckled in) One of the reasons I keep crying over the loss of mine was its coolness and another the fact that I had a vehicle, but one really BIG, big reason for all the tears is the loss of the safe factor in most crashes. Gosh I will always LOVE the VehiCROSS!
Would this type of mod help me at all in a crash?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Texcavy/wreck/x-90/x-rollcage-med.jpg

[vt_maverick]

Depends on the type of accident Tex. For a front impact or rollover a big bumper and cage might help. But a side impact from a taller vehicle like the VX would probably put the driver's side door into the passenger's side seat.

[BigSwede]

When my 99 Trooper got totaled, the insurance company basically offered me Kelley Blue Book value for it.

[rsteinmetz70112]

Rough Trade-In value???

They should at least offer Clean Retail, to give you a chance of replacing your VX.

I once challenged the adjuster to find a comparable car at the settlement offered.

[Y33TREKker]

Just read this thread - sorry to hear, but glad you and your family (including the four legged ones) are ok.

Hope everything works out for you.

[vt_maverick]

Well just finished part one of my homework for tonight, which is generating KBB and NADA values and searching for every available 2000 VX in the country to assess pricing. I've always said the thing that made my VX special was the color, and I think that may be the best argument to make to the adjuster. There are exactly (4) Foxfire VX's for sale in the entire country right now (all of them 2000's btw), and three have more mileage than mine. Based on the ads and pricing below, if insurance is indeed intended to "make you whole" it seems like there's certainly an argument to be made for $10,000.

NADA Values
Clean Retail - $9,625
Clean Trade-In - $7,200
Average Trade-In - $6,375
Rough Trade-In - $5,375

Kelly Blue Book Values
Suggested Retail - $9,625
Private Party Excellent - $8,175
Private Party Good - $7,750
Private Party Fair - $7,050

Foxfire VX 1 - 55,000 miles - $10,900
Foxfire VX 2 - 90,000 miles - $11,900
Foxfire VX 3 - 92,400 miles - $9,750
Foxfire VX 4 - 117,460 miles - $9,495

My VX - 73,000 miles - $?????

As always, thoughts and suggestions are welcome. Now off to part 2 of the assignment, tracking down receipts for the mods that were destroyed in the accident (HIDs, front marker and turn signal LEDs, VXC front skid plate, Stongard lens protectors, etc.).

[WormGod]

Hard to put a price on something you have so much time and energy invested into. Heart and soul. :(

You were already informed of your VX being totaled? Plans on replacing with another VX or moving on?

[vt_maverick]

Talked to the adjuster this morning and he won't be able to take a look until tomorrow, so I don't know for sure that it's totaled. But there's a visible crease in the passenger's side frame rail and significant damage to the unibody all around the engine bay. Even if the structural damage is fixable there's no guarantee the engine still runs. Chances don't look good at this point.

Working on finding a replacement in case it is totaled. Will know more on that front soon.

[VXjunky]

if you do end up hunting for a replacement......have you thought about the ultra lowmileage one that pops up every so often in San Francisco....kinda hi dollar but the low mileage and a serious cash offer may get the seller mootivated...yes i realize its not a foxfire

[atilla_the_fun]

Talked to the adjuster this morning and he won't be able to take a look until tomorrow, so I don't know for sure that it's totaled. But there's a visible crease in the passenger's side frame rail and significant damage to the unibody all around the engine bay. Even if the structural damage is fixable there's no guarantee the engine still runs. Chances don't look good at this point.

Working on finding a replacement in case it is totaled. Will know more on that front soon.


The driver's side is in good condition, for a foxfire of its age! Unfortunately the passenger side needs... new paint.. For cars of our vintage, any frame damage from frontal impacts are total-eriffic. =( There would just be too much work to fix everything and make sure the engine runs well, and that everything else in the engine bay is back to normal.

I held out hope that my Eagle was not totaled after a similar front T-BONE collision (also not my fault) until the adjuster literally started laughing at me over the phone when I asked if it was totaled or not. I was paid over NADA value because there are fewer and fewer Talons around.

[rsteinmetz70112]

I think you've got it. Looks to me like $10,000 is about the right price.

Good Luck

By the way I wouldn't put too much hope on your insurance recovering anything from the other guy. I doubt they'll put too much effort into it. The cost of doing it isn't worth it.

[vt_maverick]

Yeah, not too worried about hurting the other driver at this point - the guy already lost an eye and probably has a lot of facial scarring, plus the police called me this morning to let me know I would be receiving a subpoena to testify at his trial soon.

They will go after the owner's insurance company, but the extent to which they do so... who knows.

[circmand]

Not the haha kind but the wierd kind

The insurance company will nickle and dime you and try to pay as little as possible. But that same money isnt worth it when they have to do the work of hunting the guys assets down and getiing reimbursed.

[vt_maverick]

if you do end up hunting for a replacement......have you thought about the ultra lowmileage one that pops up every so often in San Francisco....kinda hi dollar but the low mileage and a serious cash offer may get the seller mootivated...yes i realize its not a foxfire

White (Victory or otherwise) is probably my least favorite color for a car. Works for sports cars in Miami, just not my thing. No way am I going to trade my favorite color and a low remaining loan balance for my least favorite color and a much higher loan payment.

You would think that someone would have bought it by now though, even at that price.

[rsteinmetz70112]

Checking NADA Valuation, I noticed that under the Clean Retail the NADA site says that vehicles in exceptionally good condition and exceptionally low mileage may be worth significantly more than Clean Retail. (The is no similar note under Clean Trade In :) )


VXs for Sale - Mileage - Asking Price - NADA - Over Under
Foxfire VX 1 - 55,000 miles - $10,900 - $9637 - +$87
Your VX - 73,000 miles - $?????? - $9550 - $0
Foxfire VX 2 - 90,000 miles - $11,900 - $8925 - -$712
Foxfire VX 3 - 92,400 miles - $9,750 - $8725 - -$912
Foxfire VX 4 - 117,460 miles - $9,495 - $7900 - -$1737


Comparing the NADA Clean Retail prices of the different VX's for sale out there shows that NADA at least places a pretty high premium on low mileage. For example the one Richard has with 90,000 miles is worth according to NADA $712 less than yours, assuming comparable condition. On the other hand the VX with 55,000 miles is only worth $87 more than yours but has 18,000 fewer miles. Oddly the 2,400 miles difference between 90,000 and 92,400 is worth $200.

I assumed that all of them were 2000 model year. using the actual model year may change the results somewhat. Richard's happens to be a 2000 also.

[vt_maverick]

Yeah I went back and edited my original post a few minutes ago, oddly ALL the Foxfires currently for sale are year 2000 models. What a weird coincidence, certainly makes for an easy comparison.

Three of the four have clean AutoCheck histories, the odd man out being Richard's which has frame damage listed. You almost have to remove his VX from the comparison because it's such a statistical outlier, both in terms of documented history and price.

[rsteinmetz70112]

Although Richard does do a very through prep job, and gets people to pay for his work. Leaving out the high priced VXs from someone who specializes in them seems to be counterproductive in this situation. Don't negotiate with yourself.

Note that all of the asking prices are significantly higher than NADA. I'd be tempted to call a couple (or tell the adjuster to call them) and see if they would take NADA, but then I get obsessive.

I am always nervous about buying any used car because I don't know the history. I have paid more to repair a car I knew than it was theoretically worth, because I was confident of the rest of the car. It worked out for me.

[WormGod]

Well, lets just say, I may know of a S/C'd ebony. Located mid-atlantic.

[VXjunky]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDN9y2vTdUs

[Gussie2000]

$10,000 is the number you should play around with the adjuster.

[tom4bren]

Yeah, not too worried about hurting the other driver at this point - the guy already lost an eye and probably has a lot of facial scarring, plus the police called me this morning to let me know I would be receiving a subpoena to testify at his trial soon.

They will go after the owner's insurance company, but the extent to which they do so... who knows.

The one thing that you do NOT want to do is start to feel sorry for this turkey. He has caused you significant 'pain & suffering' and could possibly cause you financial loss as well. You were involved in an accident that was NOT an accident. He deliberately drove a vehicle while impared knowing that under the best of circumstances, he'd get away with it ... but with his track record most probably he'd be pulled over AGAIN ... but under the worst circumstance, he'd kill someone. Drunk drivers never plan to kill anyone but nobody will ever convince me that they don't recognize the possibility exists.

Have I ever driven drunk? Yup, Once. I was able to recognize my own imparement (even in my stupor) that I swore I never would again ... & I haven't.

In my opinion, this guy's loss of an eye and facial scarring is a light penalty considering that he did everything in his power to kill you & your daughter.

OK, I'll get off the soapbox now. On to more entertaining topics. I'll have the upgraded hitch ready for you as soon as you are back in a VX.:)

[Gussie2000]

The one thing that you do NOT want to do is start to feel sorry for this turkey. He has caused you significant 'pain & suffering' and could possibly cause you financial loss as well. You were involved in an accident that was NOT an accident. He deliberately drove a vehicle while impared knowing that under the best of circumstances, he'd get away with it ... but with his track record most probably he'd be pulled over AGAIN ... but under the worst circumstance, he'd kill someone. Drunk drivers never plan to kill anyone but nobody will ever convince me that they don't recognize the possibility exists.

Have I ever driven drunk? Yup, Once. I was able to recognize my own imparement (even in my stupor) that I swore I never would again ... & I haven't.

In my opinion, this guy's loss of an eye and facial scarring is a light penalty considering that he did everything in his power to kill you & your daughter.

OK, I'll get off the soapbox now. On to more entertaining topics. I'll have the upgraded hitch ready for you as soon as you are back in a VX.:)


X2

I feel no sympathy for those who allegedly goes behind the wheel and causing pain,damages and loss of people's life.

He lost an eye ? I guess he deserved that,lucky enough it was only material damages.

[vt_maverick]

Trust me I don't feel bad about it at all. I won't say that the guy "got what he deserved" but as you said Tom he definitely made choices that determined his own fate (drinking, no seat belt, probably driving too fast, etc.). I was just in the right place at the wrong time, although you never know, if I hadn't hit and stopped him he might have hit the ditch sideways and rolled over in the field a few times. No seat belt + rollover = high likelihood of being killed rather than maimed.

[vt_maverick]

Met with the adjuster today, seemed like a nice and very knowledgeable guy. He said he'd done 3 or 4 VX's in his 7 years on the job, including one when he was actually training to become a certified adjuster. I was surprised when he volunteered that he knew how rare they were and how hard it would be to replace mine, especially since it looked to be in good shape before the accident. He confirmed that the valuation process IS a negotiation between he and I, so there must be some room for wiggle. Obviously that was very encouraging to hear.

I also learned something very interesting about the total loss (yes it is now officially a total loss) process in Virginia. In what has to be a rare act of wisdom by lawmakers, Virginia law forbids insurers from assessing the value of total loss vehicles because it represents a conflict of interest. In other words, the insurance company is liable to cover the damages or total value of the car, so it is absolutely in the insurer's best interest (as we've discussed at length in this thread) to undervalue the car. So instead of allowing that to happen, Virginia mandates that insurers take pictures of the vehicle, record all pertinent information (mileage, year, VIN, etc.) and send that information to independent 3rd party companies who specialize in valuing used vehicles. The adjuster said the company that they are required to use will take that information, research the book value for the vehicle, then pull comparable listings from used car sites to determine the real cost to replace the vehicle. He said it usually takes a day or two to get the price projection back, at which point we can begin negotiating a final value.

Overall I'm very encouraged.

[JoFotoz]

Thats pretty good news ...especially if it comes to negotiating.

Third party valuation sounds good...and the adjuster seems clued in already.

Do you have an option to retain (purchase?) the 'remains'..
...or maybe take a SMALL reduction in payout... and keep it for spares?

If thats something you'd consider of course...:_thinking

jo

[vt_maverick]

Good question Jo, forgot to add his comments on that topic. I did ask about the possibility of buying it back for spare parts, and he said the process is as follows:


We clear it with my lienholder first (he said banks/credit unions could be "difficult" on the topic of allowing their borrower to buy the vehicle - maybe they're concerned people might wreck their vehicles in order to get out from under a loan payment?)
GEICO posts pictures and a description of my VX on a national salvage auction site and solicits bids from yards for 3 days
At the end of the three days I can buy the truck for the same amount as the highest salvage yard bid
If I choose to buy it back, GEICO just subtracts the salvage price from the total value of the vehicle (less the outstanding loan payoff of course)

A basic example for clarification: VX is valued at $10K, I owe the credit union $5K on it, and the highest salvage yard bid is $1K. GEICO cuts a check to the credit union for $5K and a check to me for $4K and then I tow the VX back to my place.

I'm going to call my credit union tomorrow morning, and assuming they're okay with it (I really think they will be, it's a small town CU and I've been a member for over a decade) I'll have GEICO press forward with getting salvage bids. I can always refuse to buy it if the bid is too high, but there is a LOT of stuff on my VX that's in good shape and would make for either great spares or lucrative sales.

[JoFotoz]

That sounds like it could be a good deal, you'll essentially get to buy it ( if you want ) for wholesale value...

...as that is all the scrap/breakers yards will offer.

Fingers crossed for a great end result for you from this mess :thumbup:

jo

[rsteinmetz70112]

Wery Encouraging. Count your Fingers and Toes :smilewink.

I have a question. Will the insurance company allow you to remove any added accessories before they try to sell it? Surely they add little value as parts, but may have value to you in your next VX .;)

Not to suggest anything illegal or fraudulent but a "stalking horse" bidder for salvage might be in order.

On the other hand if the salvage bids are below what you could get from parting it out (plus the costs) it might be in your best interest to buy it back and part it out. You know better than any Internet bidder what you can sell and how much you can get. In the end you can probably sell what's left to a salvage yard after you have parted out the "goodies". That of course will take a lot of effort on your part.

In any event I hope your negotiation works out.

[Etfren]

Speaking from experience, a VX that has been in a front end crash easily has 2k left in parts that can be sold. Plus I'm sure there is some stuff you would like to save for spares or transfer immediately to your new VX.

[vt_maverick]

Wery Encouraging. Count your Fingers and Toes :smilewink.

I have a question. Will the insurance company allow you to remove any added accessories before they try to sell it? Surely they add little value as parts, but may have value to you in your next VX .;)

Way ahead of you here - check back on the first page, I've already stripped off all the mods that weren't destroyed and could be easily removed. I decided to leave the Tone hitch because of the tongue weight problems I was having, the WeatherTech front floor mats because they don't fit very well, and the SBC window brackets and popper kit because they'd be a pain in the *** to remove. But I get to submit my receipts for those items to the 3rd party appraisers for consideration on top of the vehicle itself, so that's good. I pulled all that stuff last week because once the adjuster snaps pics of the vehicle you can't pull anything else off. Otherwise you'd be ripping off the insurance company because they'd being paying you for mods that are no longer on the vehicle.


Not to suggest anything illegal or fraudulent but a "stalking horse" bidder for salvage might be in order.

Not sure what you mean here. I get first right of refusal on buying the vehicle so it's not like anyone can outbid me, I just have to match the highest bid.


On the other hand if the salvage bids are below what you could get from parting it out (plus the costs) it might be in your best interest to buy it back and part it out. You know better than any Internet bidder what you can sell and how much you can get. In the end you can probably sell what's left to a salvage yard after you have parted out the "goodies". That of course will take a lot of effort on your part.

Yup, that's the idea. It really all depends on how high the salvage bid comes in and what kind of condition my next VX is in when I buy it. If the salvage bid is > $2K and my next VX is near mint, it's probably not worth it. But if the bid is $1500 and my next VX has worn seats or faded cladding, it could be a really good idea to hold onto it. We'll see.

[vt_maverick]

Way ahead of you here - check back on the first page, I've already stripped off all the mods that weren't destroyed and could be easily removed. I decided to leave the Tone hitch because of the tongue weight problems I was having, the WeatherTech front floor mats because they don't fit very well, and the SBC window brackets and popper kit because they'd be a pain in the *** to remove. But I get to submit my receipts for those items to the 3rd party appraisers for consideration on top of the vehicle itself, so that's good. I pulled all that stuff last week because once the adjuster snaps pics of the vehicle you can't pull anything else off. Otherwise you'd be ripping off the insurance company because they'd being paying you for mods that are no longer on the vehicle.

Well just totaled up my receipts for the mods that were either destroyed or I chose not to remove. If you include shipping and installation labor (a few things I had professionally installed) the total comes to $2,024.95. Without installation labor it's closer to $1,400 or so. I couldn't believe it was that high since I already removed the vast majority of my stuff. Oh well, hopefully this will drive the final payout up even more.

[rsteinmetz70112]

Don't forget that you will have to pay tax title and license on you new one as well.

[atilla_the_fun]

Well just totaled up my receipts for the mods that were either destroyed or I chose not to remove. If you include shipping and installation labor (a few things I had professionally installed) the total comes to $2,024.95. Without installation labor it's closer to $1,400 or so. I couldn't believe it was that high since I already removed the vast majority of my stuff. Oh well, hopefully this will drive the final payout up even more.

!!! Don't tell the wife!

[vt_maverick]

Just got off the phone with the adjuster. He's still waiting to hear back on salvage bids and for authorization from GEICO to include my mods in the final price, but he did give me an opening offer for the vehicle (still subject to negotiation and does not yet include mods).

$9,977.25

I want more than that of course, but that's very encouraging.

[rsteinmetz70112]

Sounds encouraging indeed. Does that include all the costs of purchasing a new vehicle?

[VXjunky]

mav...what was the mileage on your VX?

[vt_maverick]

No that's just the assessment of the value of my VX itself, it doesn't include the costs of acquiring a replacement, the cost of all the mods that were destroyed, the cost of the car seat I had to replace, etc etc etc. That's just a starting point, now he and I get to talk through what those other items should add on top of the base figure. He's on vacation tomorrow so we won't talk more until Monday.

Junky - My mileage was right at 73K.

[VXjunky]

id a-thunk more $$$, given the low mileage....coincidentally right where mine is

[Mile High VX]

Hey if we all group together and put our VXs up for sale at 15K maybe Mav can get what his is truly worth...:)

[vt_maverick]

Lol... now that's using your head Earl!

[vt_maverick]

id a-thunk more $$$, given the low mileage....coincidentally right where mine is

IIRC Dealer/Clean Retail for an 00 with 73K was around $9700 in both NADA and KBB, so it's not that low. But I would argue that my VX was in very good condition for its age (especially the undercarriage which was largely devoid of rust) and had a few thousand $$$ worth of mods that should push it higher.

[JoFotoz]

I think thats a great starting figure given the bits you already "rescued" !

You gotta think there is a 10%- 15% negotiation window in there..

..so something around 11K may be possible.

Good luck with it ....:thumbup:

Jo

[vt_maverick]

Hadn't heard from the adjuster since last Thursday (he was out of town Friday through Monday and I was traveling Monday and Tuesday) so decided to give him a follow-up call today. He said that NONE of the salvage companies he surveyed has made an offer yet; he says they almost to a one said "What's that again? I don't know, I'll have to do some research and call you back."

So there's opportunity and risk here. The opportunity is that I might be able to buy it back on the cheap if no yards want it. The risk is that if no one makes an offer, GEICO may decide to use their "salvage value matrix" (that's what he called it) which sounds like an NADA equivalent for salvaged vehicles. He said he's trying to avoid that route because it almost always lists values higher than what salvage yards are willing to pay. :( I'm thinking about having my mechanic (and the guy who towed my VX from the scene) make him a "ghost" offer. The insurance guy says it doesn't matter to him what the value is, he just needs an offer to work with. Hmmm...

He also hasn't heard back from "corporate" about whether the mods will be covered so he's going to give them another call this afternoon. He's supposed to call me back tonight to give me an update on both issues, so I'll pass that along.

Hope this is educational for you guys, I just figure keeping a running log of my conversations with the insurance company could help someone know what to do or ask in the future if they find themselves in the same position.

[samneil2000]

Good luck!

[JoFotoz]

Do you know where an offer can be made...

.. I'll put a reasonable one in!

jo

[vt_maverick]

Well guys the results are in. All of the salvage yards declined to bid, so the insurance company asked the auction house they use to do an internal assessment, which came back at $1400. That's a little higher than I had hoped but I won't argue that with them - I'll just ask for a few hundred more in the overall vehicle value than I had planned (this is almost the exact reverse of buying a car with a trade-in). What do you guys think? I need to give him an answer within the next few days.

The adjuster also confirmed that my accessories / mods ARE COVERED under my policy (read your policy folks, it may come in handy someday) but that he is still waiting to get word back on whether he is supposed to pay ACV (actual cash value - essentially the total from my receipts) or depreciated value. He said he was almost certain it was ACV, which would be a nice chunk of extra change. Very happy to hear that.

:)

[rsteinmetz70112]

So have you picked out your new VX yet?

[VXjunky]

also...is a firefox the only thing you'll settle for?

[JoFotoz]

If you have the space to store her, dismantle her for parts...

...then I'd say YES.

Especially if you are going to buy another one.. of course you are!!

Glass, cladding & body panels that survived, interior/seats, rear door, wheels, third members etc etc...
...are worth it alone.

Never mind the fact that you'll have a spare engine, g/box and t/case.. :thumbup:

:_beer:

Jo

[vt_maverick]

So have you picked out your new VX yet?

Close, still negotiating. Hoping to close the deal in a few weeks, still have to make a trip to see it in person.


also...is a firefox the only thing you'll settle for?

I keep telling myself no, but then I find myself not even clicking other ads in AutoTempest. :o I do want another Foxfire, preferrably a 2000 (because the AC compressor is cheaper and there were fewer of those) but I'd be proud to own a 2001 as well.

I know it doesn't matter much to a lot of folks, but the color is just what makes it for me. :yesy:

[VX KAT]

Close, still negotiating. Hoping to close the deal in a few weeks, still have to make a trip to see it in person.



I keep telling myself no, but then I find myself not even clicking other ads in AutoTempest. :o I do want another Foxfire, preferrably a 2000 (because the AC compressor is cheaper and there were fewer of those) but I'd be proud to own a 2001 as well.

I know it doesn't matter much to a lot of folks, but the color is just what makes it for me. :yesy:

I totally understand the color thing...:bgwb:...and an '01...hey I resemble that remark!
.
.
.
.
seriously, it's all good, and hope it all works out for ya!

[VXjunky]

im with you Kat...id accept nothing but a 1987 el camino....got a thing for last year production models

[Mile High VX]

[QUOTE=vt_maverick;242011]Close, still negotiating. Hoping to close the deal in a few weeks, still have to make a trip to see it in person.


[QUOTE]

Hey if your coming to CO and need a ride just let me know... if I'm in town it would be my pleasure.

[AndyC]

Yeah there is something with the 2001 FireFoxes - last of the line :)

[workmeistr]

Concur, even though I never really sold Ashley on my wheel color choice:
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/medium/workmeistr_05-22-11_Wheels_Thule_696.JPG (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/20863)

[iott2551]

There is a lesson in all of this. Insurance is a necessary evil and everyone tries to get the best rates possible. This generally works out just fine when insuring a Toyota Camry or a Honda Civic or any vehicle that is available for a dime a dozen. Fair market value, replacement cost and so on are easily determined. Insuring something rare though, like a VX or something antique(ish) like a 87 El Camino is trickier. Sure there are NADA guidelines but realistically, once a vehicle becomes 'rare', one cannot just go out and get another one that easy. The fair market value is based on good averages across a state or the nation. Three or four available vehicles for sale do not translate into a good statistic for value. Ours are specialty vehicle which were rare from the start. Now 10 years after final production, given that a lot of them are probably totaled, the pool for assessing a fair value is more difficult than ever. One might discuss this with ones insurance carrier to see how one's policy addresses this. Carriers do have specialty policies available that value antiques or rare vehicles differently than your Honda Civic. It may cost a little more, but should the unthinkable happens, you wouldn't sit there explaining why they shouldn't look at your VX as a 10 year old import with 75000 miles. I mean if it was the LAST VX in existence and in good shape, even at 200000 miles it would be worth more simply because of the rarety. Just sayin...talk to your carrier and see if someone totaled your VX, how would they look at it and if you don't like what you hear, see if there are alternative insurance plans.

[vt_maverick]

Talked with the adjuster again today... GEICO will pay ACV for my mods so that should be a little over $2K on top of the value of the car. He said the only thing we're waiting on now is for the assessment company to determine the final value of my VX. They already suggested $9,977.25, but the adjuster (without any prodding from me) asked them to take a second look based on the rarity of the color. He said he wasn't sure how much more they might add, but that he definitely agreed with me that there should be some additional compensation for that aspect.

I also committed to buying my VX back for parts - I figure I'll hold onto it until I get a new VX to see if there's anything I need, then go from there.

[rsteinmetz70112]

I know it's been a PITA but it seem to be working out for you.

I hope you get your replacement soon.

[vt_maverick]

Thanks. As I think someone predicted earlier in this thread, getting all this squared away and finding a new VX really has become a second job.

[Petos]

Just read this, vt_maverick, will echo what the rest are saying, the main thing is that you and your beloved ones are ok..



At least as far as front impacts go, the VX is a tough little beast. The whole front of my VX is obliterated but my daughter and I walked away with barely a scratch. The front windshield didn't even so much as crack, nor did any of the other windows. The airbags deployed exactly as they should and did their job well. And the front bumper bar that we mock as being scrawny and rust prone prevented his car from touching my front tire and wheel. I can't speak for a side impact (thank God) but I have to believe this is a pretty safe vehicle, especially to be a 2-door.

I think our car is good withstanding the side impact as well... we here in Russia had a VX accident with right side collision when the driver lost control of his vehicle at full speed on a highway... thankfully, our car has a frame, and that might have saved his life.. see the first picture in the attached..
http://forum.4x4club.ru/index.php?showtopic=75267&st=0

[vt_maverick]

Just got off the phone with the adjuster who is bringing the check by now. The numbers shake out like this:

Total Value w/ Mods: $14,674.08
Salvage Price: $1,400.00

I owe about $4500 on the VX so even after paying off the loan I'll be getting a healthy check. FWIW, I bought my VX in April of 2008 with 22K miles for $14K. About $1,600 of that insurance total value is mods, so figure that means my VX just "sold" in November of 2011 with 73K miles for about $13K. Might be the best evidence yet that our VX's are just around the corner from becoming valuable collectibles.

I'd like to take a second to say a big THANK YOU to Richard Payne of Detailed Driven Autos. GEICO originally offered a little less than $10K, but the adjuster told me that I might be able to appeal that value if I could get a dealer to write up a quote for what he would sell my VX for on his own lot. Though I didn't end up buying a VX from Richard, he still agreed to write up a detailed quote including tax, title, tag, shipping, etc. that I could use against GEICO. And as it turns out, GEICO decided to pay EXACTLY the value on Richard's quote.

So Richard, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR HELP!!! :thumbup: :D :yesy: :clap:

[VX KAT]

AWESOME TO HEAR ASH! I'm getting tubed on my Lexus accident so rarely do we hear of even remotely "positive" outcome$ from accidents caused by others.....

[vt_maverick]

Yeah I know I'm really blessed, although I have to believe that part of the insurance company's flexibility is probably based on the fact that I was the victim of a multi-offense drunk driver.

[VXjunky]

Ash
thats awesome news...Kat not so much

[vt_maverick]

I don't think so:

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?threadid=21682

:D :rotate: :cool!: :naughty: :_beer: :clap: :dan_ban: :dance: :jump: :LineWave: :thumbup:

[VXjunky]

whats left of the corpse (gross word)?

[HubEZ]

Seeing this breaks my heart

[vt_maverick]

whats left of the corpse (gross word)?

I traded her to Greg (Buffy) in exchange for his services in installing my 5-speed. He originally hoped to restore her as a race truck or diesel swap but his buddy confirmed the frame was beyond repair. So Greg parted her out to a bunch of folks here and then had her crushed. :( Hard to imagine that, glad I wasn't there to see it happen. But I'm happy to know that she'll live on in other member's rigs. :thumbup: