VT_Maverick's 5 Speed Swap [Text View]

Buffy

12/28/2011, 06:46 PM

Ok, the transformation has begun. I've received most of the parts from Jerry to do the swap, the actual clutch is still on its way. I got the old auto trans out today and plan on myabe getting the pedals swapped out tomorrow and get the flywheel installed too. Once the clutch gets here it is time for the next step. I am still scratching my head on the wiring as there are a ton of wires on the auto and not so many on the manual. I will get it figured out soon, no worries Ashley! So now for some pictures....

Here is the patient ready for surgery..

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901397/fullsize/100_2007.jpg

Flywheel, pedals, clutch master, slave cylinder, new clutch bolts, new trans mount, and new flywheel bolts...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901393/fullsize/100_2004.jpg

The AR5 manual trans...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901395/fullsize/100_2005.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901396/fullsize/100_2006.jpg

I was pleased to see no rust and all bolts came out easily, except the exhaust bolts which required some heat to losen up...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901398/fullsize/100_2008.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901399/fullsize/100_2009.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901400/fullsize/100_2010.jpg

vt_maverick

12/28/2011, 06:50 PM

So pumped... and I told you guys he would post pics! :)

Buffy

12/28/2011, 07:02 PM

Some general shots during the tear down...

TOD unit...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901401/fullsize/100_2011.jpg

Console is out...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901403/fullsize/100_2013.jpg

Note to self.... don't forget the little ground wire.... :p

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901404/fullsize/100_2014.jpg

AR5 -vs- 4L30

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901405/fullsize/100_2015.jpg

Talk about a wiring mess....

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901406/fullsize/100_2016.jpg

TOD is much larger than the transfer case that was in the Trooper...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901407/fullsize/100_2017.jpg

Look Ma no tranny!...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901408/fullsize/100_2018.jpg

I will be making a trip to the junk yard tomorrow to see if I can find some interior pieces to go around the shifter. The under boot from the Trooper will work BUT the interior trim piece will not. I am hoping something from an Amigo or Rodeo will work. The end goal is for VT_Maverick to have a VX that looks like it originally came from the factory with a 5 speed.

Scott Larson

12/28/2011, 07:15 PM

Too cool guys, I'm pumped to see how it all works out. Best of luck with the swap!! Keep those pics and info coming...

Triathlete

12/28/2011, 09:50 PM

vt_maverick

12/29/2011, 01:03 AM

Billy do you have contact info for Allen? I believe Greg has been trying to reach him unsuccessfully for the past few weeks.

etlsport

12/29/2011, 05:35 AM

The center console from a mid-late 90s rodeo or passport will work

samneil2000

12/29/2011, 06:14 AM

What's the weight difference between the two trannies? I figure the manual should be a few lbs lighter, plus the weight of the fluid.

Triathlete

12/29/2011, 07:32 AM

Billy do you have contact info for Allen? I believe Greg has been trying to reach him unsuccessfully for the past few weeks.

Might try offrodenut@aol.com

vt_maverick

12/29/2011, 09:32 AM

The center console from a mid-late 90s rodeo or passport will work

Yeah I was looking at pics online last night and the 95.5-97 Rodeo/Passport console should work. IIRC the center console around the shifters was really wide in the Trooper which is why it doesn't fit.

VXorado

12/29/2011, 12:10 PM

Woohoo, thanks for posting the swap with pics!!!! I'm planning on doing the swap next fall and the info is very helpful, keep it going :).

Billy do you have contact info for Allen? I believe Greg has been trying to reach him unsuccessfully for the past few weeks.

I have his updated email & phone # if you want, the aol address is old. Just PM if you want & i'll look it up.

vt_maverick

12/29/2011, 01:46 PM

Can you PM it to me and Buffy both? He's the one who really needs to talk to him (about the wiring especially).

Vendetta

12/29/2011, 01:51 PM

Man, if you guys do this right and put together a little how-to, there could be more than a few "donations" in the cards.

As engines and trannies start going, this would provide a great way to not just fix them up, but make them feel like a whole new experience. For my part, I'd try to mate a more powerful engine while I'm at it. Too bad I just friggin' replaced mine.

vt_maverick

12/29/2011, 02:06 PM

I know in our discussions the goal was first and foremost to increase reliability. Replacing the wimpy 4L30 with an Isuzu-sourced, beefier, and cheaper to maintain transmission eliminates half of our major reliability problems while likely increasing fuel economy by a few MPGs as well. The next logical step would be to swap out the oil and gas gulping engine, with the easiest option being an Isuzu-sourced engine that is compatible with the AR5 transmission, hence why Greg is looking at diesel options. Assuming he can get a non-problematic engine to work (per PK's comments) that would give us a much longer life engine that's also more fuel efficient (we're thinking 25-30 MPG + between a diesel and manual). Granted it won't have the muscle or sexiness of a GM V8 swap, but it would (theoretically) be much more fuel efficient and reliable. As you can see there are a number of technical hurdles to solve with all Isuzu components, so you can only imagine what would be involved in a full drivetrain swap. And it's anybody's guess how reliable (and expensive) that might be.

Etfren

12/29/2011, 02:27 PM

If you have any wiring issues you might give Allen (bigmeatvx) a shout. If I remember right he said his wiring was plug and play except a couple wires that controled the trooper shift light/vx tod light.

I got a ton of paperwork from Allan when I bought it and I think I remember seeing a wiring diagram of some sort that was for the tranny swap or something like it. I know he wired up the trooper shift indicator light to the "check trans" light.

Guess this means I won't have the only 5-speed VX anymore. Can't wait to see the results!

vt_maverick

12/29/2011, 02:50 PM

Don't worry, you'll still have the only 99 5-speed! 2000 and 2001 are drive by wire per Jerry Lemmond, so the wiring will be somewhat different anyway. But we'd love to have whatever you've got! Can you scan and email them to us? I can shoot your our emails via PM, or you could even post them here if the resolution is high enough to be readable.

***EDIT - Nevermind on the drive-by-wire thing, see post #19 below***

Buffy

12/29/2011, 04:30 PM

Ok, I got a little more done today but not as much as I had hoped. I hit several junk yards today looking for a Rodeo console to use but struck out. I did, however, score a nice set of asisn manual hubs. :smilegray

I did get the dash removed and the clutch pedal installed today. I also removed the hard line from the Trooper and got it installed. The cool part is the mounting tabs for the lines is installed on the VX. I am having to get a different clutch master cylinder sent to me as the one I need has a 10 mm nut and the one I received was a 12 mm, no big deal though. I have plenty to keep me busy. The clutch assembly arrived this afternoon and I was working on getting it installed but for the life of me could not find my clutch alignment tool! :upsetgray :upsetgray

When the project is done and I am satisfied with everything, I will created a word document with pictures and commentary if everyine thinks it will be of use to the community.

So here are some pictures...

Starting to take the dash apart...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901488/fullsize/100_2019.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901489/fullsize/100_2020.jpg

If you look at the center of the picture you can see the blockoff plate and the mounting studs for the pedal assembly...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901490/fullsize/100_2021.jpg

Here I have removed the auto bushing from the rear crank...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901491/fullsize/100_2022.jpg

Ok, trivia time, this is the tool Jerry lent me to remove the bushing. A very simple too that fits perfectly into the bushing, injects grease and has a surface to tap to force the bushing out. Extra credit to whoever can name this former Isuzu part turned tool....

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901492/fullsize/100_2023.jpg

Buffy

12/29/2011, 04:35 PM

Here are a few pictures of the clutch and flywheel....

New pilot bearing...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901493/fullsize/100_2024.jpg

Installed, just tap it in until it bottoms out...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901494/fullsize/100_2025.jpg

New flywheel installed, bolts torque to 47 ft pounds...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901495/fullsize/100_2026.jpg

Factory clutch plate....

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901496/fullsize/100_2027.jpg

Factory pressure plate, man is this thing heavy duty!...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901498/fullsize/100_2028.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901499/fullsize/100_2029.jpg

Buffy

12/29/2011, 04:37 PM

Don't worry, you'll still have the only 99 5-speed! 2000 and 2001 are drive by wire per Jerry Lemmond, so the wiring will be somewhat different anyway. But we'd love to have whatever you've got! Can you scan and email them to us? I can shoot your our emails via PM, or you could even post them here if the resolution is high enough to be readable.

This must be a Trooper thing because yours still has a throttle cable. This is good in our case because I can just take the computer out of the Trooper and install it, no need to have the one in your VX reflashed.

Triathlete

12/29/2011, 04:48 PM

That tool looks like a drive shaft ujoint!?!?

Buffy

12/29/2011, 04:52 PM

That tool looks like a drive shaft ujoint!?!?

Good guess but has nothing to do with the drive line.

vt_maverick

12/29/2011, 06:01 PM

This must be a Trooper thing because yours still has a throttle cable. This is good in our case because I can just take the computer out of the Trooper and install it, no need to have the one in your VX reflashed.

Sweet! :thumbup:

vt_maverick

12/30/2011, 10:44 AM

Greg struck out at the local yards trying to find the shifter surround trim, and I'm not having much luck online. Maybe you guys can help? We need the piece around the shifters in the pictures below, must be from a 95.5-97 Isuzu Rodeo or Honda Passport with manual transmission and 4WD. Prefer black if someone can find it, but we can always paint a gray one.

http://images.autotrader.com/scaler/544/408/images/2011/12/6/311/797/23557568734.311797846.IM1.08.565x421_A.562x421.jpg
http://cimages.carsforsale.com/268892/30C7CAC7-F8F8-4CB8-A71F-24D85F42840E_6.jpg
http://cimages.carsforsale.com/268892/30C7CAC7-F8F8-4CB8-A71F-24D85F42840E_8.jpg

JAMAS

12/30/2011, 12:59 PM

Call here (http://www.formelmotors.com/). They are listed to have a '97 5speed 4x4 Rodeo

These are listed to have the same model....

http://www.weberautoparts.com/
http://www.brasscastleimports.com/

also these... are 96s or 97s
http://www.nestersautoworks.com/
http://www.whiteyswrecking.com/
http://www.lamarautosalvage.com/

All should have 5speed 4x4 Rodeos in the correct year range.

Good Luck

Scott Larson

12/30/2011, 01:11 PM

Your bearing removal tool looks like it started life as the casting for a brake proportioning valve...

VXorado

12/30/2011, 02:56 PM

http://images.autotrader.com/scaler/544/408/images/2011/12/6/311/797/23557568734.311797846.IM1.08.565x421_A.562x421.jpg

Seems like you could just cut out the center section of the VX shifter console and it would look similar. I've looked for the same thing at the junkyard for my future swap and the center console won't match a rodeos shifter where we have the change tray.

vt_maverick

12/30/2011, 07:44 PM

Thanks guys, Earl found one in a yard in Denver that looks like what we need. Oddly it came off a PRE 95.5 Passport, so it appears that while the dash changed midyear the center console did not. Won't know for sure until we get it though.

Seems like you could just cut out the center section of the VX shifter console and it would look similar. I've looked for the same thing at the junkyard for my future swap and the center console won't match a rodeos shifter where we have the change tray.

Good to know, sounds like cutting may be required for either to work then.

Buffy

12/30/2011, 08:47 PM

Answer: The "tool" started out life as a diesel fuel injector for the Isuzu 223 motor. Hard to believe but that is what it was.

I will post more pictures tomorrow as it has been a long day. It took me several hours of grinding and test fitting to get the cases to fit together properly. That transfer case gets heavy after picking it up a dozen or so times, I am worn out! I have the brake pedal assembly out now and will be installing the manual assembly tomorrow as well as the clutch hydrolic system as well.

Speaking of the clutch master cylinder here is what I discovered. You can use either the Trooper or Rodeo clutch master cylinder. The only difference between the two is the size of the line, with the Rodeo line being a larger diameter. If you use the Rodeo unit then you will nee to take the hard line from the Rodeo and modify it to work with the VX as the Rodeo has the slave cylinder on the passenger side. If you go with the Trooper unit then you can use the hard line which bolts directly in place without modification and will look factory. Now the kicker.... an OEM unit for the Rodeo is about $80.00 and the Trooper north of $300.00!! OUCH!!! Just something to consider when you decide to go down this road.

Pictures to come tomorrow. I am hoping to tie most of the lose ends tomorrow and install the trans on Sunday. Wish me luck!!

Scott Larson

12/30/2011, 09:04 PM

Thanks Buffy, I thought it looked like a pressure fitting of some kind, makes sense!

VXorado

12/30/2011, 11:31 PM

Now the kicker.... an OEM unit for the Rodeo is about $80.00 and the Trooper north of $300.00!! OUCH!!! Just something to consider when you decide to go down this road.

Pictures to come tomorrow. I am hoping to tie most of the lose ends tomorrow and install the trans on Sunday. Wish me luck!!

Thats strange that the Trooper master cylinder would be that much more than the Rodeo :confused:. Good to know for the budget, which one did you go with?

Good luck this weekend & keep us posted :thumbup:

vt_maverick

12/30/2011, 11:42 PM

Well since we have an entire Trooper sitting there it was really $80 vs. $0 for now. (The $800 I dropped on that Trooper is looking better every day. ;)) Besides it'll make it much easier to remember what came from where when I'm in a shop without my computer in a few years... :)

Buffy

12/31/2011, 06:11 AM

As promised picture time!!

Clutch installed, I spent several hours searching for an alignment tool and had to settle for a universal unit. Note to self, Isuzu clutches DO NOT include and alignment tool. Advanced Auto can order you one for $1.49.

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901668/fullsize/100_2032.jpg

The AR-5 and the 4L30E side-by-side...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901669/fullsize/100_2033.jpg

The AR-5 had a stud at the top that I had to remove. This bolt hole was not used...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901670/fullsize/100_2036.jpg

Here you can see the interference I encountered between the cases...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901671/fullsize/100_2037.jpg

You can see where the cases were rubbing together whiched was making it difficult fitting them together...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901672/fullsize/100_2038.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901673/fullsize/100_2039.jpg

The shifter plate had to be clearanced as well...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901674/fullsize/100_2041.jpg

This will give you an idea of the amount of massaging it took to get the cases together. It took several hours as I only wanted to remove just enough to make things work. I lost count of how many times i put the cases together to get it how I wanted.

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901675/fullsize/100_2043.jpg

SUCCESS!!!!!

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901676/fullsize/100_2045.jpg

Buffy

12/31/2011, 06:21 AM

Once I got the cases sorted out I turned my attention to the brake pedal. It is a pain to get out but got easier once I losened the steering column to firewall bolts. Here are the two assemblies side-by-side...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901677/fullsize/100_2047.jpg

Here is the dash carnage, Easy Ashley... I'll get it back together today! :smilewink You do not have to swap the brake pedal out to do the swap. The pedals would be a little close but useable but my end goal is a factory appearance so out it came!

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901678/fullsize/100_2048.jpg

When they built the VX they obviously used the Trooper RS floor pans. This is the same tab the 4 door Trooper uses to connect the hard hydrolic line to the soft line of the slave cylinder. This is why the Trooper parts are more of a plug-and-play factory appearing vs the Rodeo parts.

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901679/fullsize/100_2049.jpg

Buffy

12/31/2011, 10:37 AM

I got an early start today so here are some pictures....

Here is the Trooper clutch master cylinder and hard line installed...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901698/fullsize/100_2050.jpg

Here is what the tab I showed earlier is used for. If I were doing the swap I would opt for the Trooper parts.

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901699/fullsize/100_2051.jpg

Do yourself a big favor and install the clutch master cylinder BEFORE installing the pedals. It is almost impossible to get to the top nut with the pedal in place...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901700/fullsize/100_2053.jpg

The interior is looking better....

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901701/fullsize/100_2054.jpg

Ok Ashley you can breath a sigh of relief...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901702/fullsize/100_2055.jpg

The computers are lables MAN or AUTO...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901703/fullsize/100_2056.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901704/fullsize/100_2057.jpg

You will need to swap the mounting brackets over. The VX mount is on the bottom...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901705/fullsize/100_2059.jpg

Vendetta

12/31/2011, 10:53 AM

Following this thread with increasing amazement, interest and respect for the talent! Keep up the great work.

Where is this all happening (city/state)? I'd like to know how far I'll have to go when the time comes. ;-)

vt_maverick

12/31/2011, 11:03 AM

You and me both V. City/state is Burlington, NC (it's in his profile at the top of each of his posts) which fortunately is only about 3 hours away from me.

BigSwede

12/31/2011, 03:35 PM

I think this is going to be a very cool swap.

That manual looks just as big as the auto, FWIW...maybe that says something...or not.

Buffy

12/31/2011, 08:01 PM

The trans is mated to the motor!!! I have not installed the rear cross member as I am not liking how the gas lines are working out. I am considering taking the line out of the Trooper and swapping it with the one in the VX. It is made to mount to the trans and routes around the shifters.

VXorado

12/31/2011, 08:18 PM

The trans is mated to the motor!!!

You're on a roll & will be shifting through 5-speeds in no time.

Buffy

01/01/2012, 05:36 PM

I tied up most of the mechanical loose ends today. I was going to use the Trooper hard gas lines but could not use it because the lines have different wanys of connecting to the common chamber. Also note worthy is I decided to go with the Trooper exhaust because if I had used the VX exhaise system I would have had to start moving wires at the PCM and I really didn't want to get into that. I will research it later to get an idea of what is required. So without further ado here are some more pictures...

The new throwout bearing...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901874/fullsize/100_2060.jpg

Shift arm and throwout bearing assembled. After the transmission is installed the bearing snaps into the clutch. I was able to do this by pulling the shift arm towards the back of the truck. It took very little effort to snap in place...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901875/fullsize/100_2061.jpg

I had to modify the dust cover that sits behind the started slightly. On the auto the dust cover is held in by a bolt screwed into the trans housing. On the manual the bolt goes all the way though the housing. I marked the plate and drilled a hole through the plate and mounted everything up. The drill bit in the picture is where the bolt passes through the housing.

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901876/fullsize/100_2062.jpg

Bolt installed...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901878/fullsize/100_2064.jpg

Slave cylinder mounted...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901877/fullsize/100_2063.jpg

I switched to allen head bolts due to the close tollerences between the cases...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901880/fullsize/100_2066.jpg

Shifters and rubber boots installed...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901881/fullsize/100_2067.jpg

Rear drive shaft installed...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901879/fullsize/100_2065.jpg

Trooper exhaust installed...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901882/fullsize/100_2068.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901883/fullsize/100_2069.jpg

vt_maverick

01/01/2012, 06:39 PM

So looks like the Trooper exhaust matched up to the muffler without modification then?

VXorado

01/01/2012, 07:05 PM

Also note worthy is I decided to go with the Trooper exhaust because if I had used the VX exhaise system I would have had to start moving wires at the PCM and I really didn't want to get into that.

Whats the difference in the Trooper exhaust vs VX exhaust that involves the PCM? O2 sensors?

Buffy

01/01/2012, 07:08 PM

Yea it matched up nicely. I need to go get a gasket for that juncture. The one I had was too small. I had a couple new gaskets for the manafolds already so I just stuck those in there. An added bonus on project left overs. :smilegray

Buffy

01/01/2012, 07:10 PM

Whats the difference in the Trooper exhaust vs VX exhaust that involves the PCM? O2 sensors?

I has to do with how the computer reads them. If I used the VX head pipes it would have thrown codes. I spoke with Allen (BigMeatVX) and this is what he was telling me.

VXorado

01/01/2012, 07:15 PM

I has to do with how the computer reads them. If I used the VX head pipes it would have thrown codes. I spoke with Allen (BigMeatVX) and this is what he was telling me.

Thats good info, I remember Allan had something about the trooper exhaust in his write up but it was unclear what the issue was. Glad you got in touch with him :thumbup:.

JAMAS

01/03/2012, 08:37 AM

This is a good thread to read. Nice to have this option in the back of my head if the transmission ever goes out.

WormGod

01/04/2012, 06:56 AM

Ya, now if someone would just do it for me. My garage isn't large enough to turn wrenches well in and none of my trusted shops wants to tackle it. Most citing it isn't high on their "want to to list" or "it's going to take to much of their time due to R&D". I respect both excuses. :(

Buffy

01/04/2012, 07:20 AM

Over all it hasn't been that difficult. Some parts are time consuming like mating the cases together. I figure I will have spent around 40 +- hours doing the swap. A possible compromise would be to just have a shop pull out the auto and install the manual. From there it is fairly straight forward. Shouldn't be any R&D required once I finish the documentation. No fabrication or welding needed, I did have to drill 1 hole in a dust cover but that is it. I was concerned the Trooper shifter would be too tall but as it turns out fits perfect.

I will document the wiring needed to finish off the build here soon. Been under the weather the past couple days. :(

vt_maverick

01/04/2012, 07:54 AM

Sorry to hear that Greg, hope you feel better!

eternal21

01/04/2012, 08:43 AM

Cris

01/04/2012, 08:53 AM

Good luck with your Vx trans swap you might want to look into a trooper with the manual trans has everything your looking for even a on/off button for the TOD system.

eternal21

01/04/2012, 09:02 AM

Good luck with your Vx trans swap you might want to look into a trooper with the manual trans has everything your looking for even a on/off button for the TOD system.

That's where the transmissions came from.

Buffy

01/04/2012, 10:19 AM

I've been sitting on my AR5 and respective flywheel for about a year. Now that some other things in my life are starting to settle a bit, I'm going to get this tackled in the early part of this year. This thread is a boon, so thanks!

IIRC, BigMeat said something about still needing to figure out the cruise control. I hope that will be addressed in this thread, as well.

Keep up the bodacious work!

I see you are in Austin. I am planning on being in Austin for a visit sometime in February or March. I lived in the Austin area for about 12 years.

I think I have the cruise portion figured out. We will see if my idea works when I get feeling better.

VXorado

01/04/2012, 10:50 AM

Good luck with your Vx trans swap you might want to look into a trooper with the manual trans has everything your looking for even a on/off button for the TOD system.

You lose TOD with the Manual Trooper as its only a 2wd-4hi-4lo. Also you get a 2-1 low gear (:thumbdn:) on the transfer case with the Trooper. Keeping the VX transfer case with this swap is key.

eternal21

01/04/2012, 12:12 PM

I see you are in Austin. I am planning on being in Austin for a visit sometime in February or March. I lived in the Austin area for about 12 years.

I think I have the cruise portion figured out. We will see if my idea works when I get feeling better.

Cool. Let me know! If you're interested, we can grab a beer or dinner while I pick your brain *lol*

Triathlete

01/04/2012, 04:42 PM

You lose TOD

I can't wait to axe my TOD and get a real transfer case!
But you are partially wrong...Troopers were available with TOD.

VXorado

01/04/2012, 07:01 PM

I can't wait to axe my TOD and get a real transfer case!
But you are partially wrong...Troopers were available with TOD.

If I recall correctly, Troopers with autos have TOD & Troopers with manuals get a non-TOD transfer case.

BigSwede

01/05/2012, 06:51 AM

If I recall correctly, Troopers with autos have TOD & Troopers with manuals get a non-TOD transfer case.

I think this is correct...it was in 99 anyway when I bought my first Trooper. I still have the brochure somewhere...

WormGod

01/05/2012, 07:37 AM

If I recall correctly, Troopers with autos have TOD & Troopers with manuals get a non-TOD transfer case.

Correct.

I prefer TOD personally but I loves me a manual. Talk about a dilemma....

Buffy

01/05/2012, 07:41 AM

Correct.

I prefer TOD personally but I loves me a manual. Talk about a dilemma....

According to BigMeatVX the TOD still works the same with the 5 speed! I am excited to see how things will work once all the wiring is done.

Mile High VX

01/05/2012, 08:17 AM

I see you are in Austin. I am planning on being in Austin for a visit sometime in February or March. I lived in the Austin area for about 12 years.

I think I have the cruise portion figured out. We will see if my idea works when I get feeling better.

I'll be there the week of Feb 27th and again the week of March 12th...

Triathlete

01/05/2012, 12:35 PM

If I recall correctly, Troopers with autos have TOD & Troopers with manuals get a non-TOD transfer case.

I stand corrected...my brain for some reason was not seeing auto vs. manual, it was in the gray area :)

Etfren

01/05/2012, 05:55 PM

According to BigMeatVX the TOD still works the same with the 5 speed! I am excited to see how things will work once all the wiring is done.

Yup, TOD works just fine, as does 4-lo (and low it is in first gear!) and his TOD on/off switch for some RWD VX fun! :smilewink No idea if he ever got the Cruise working 'cause I never use it anyway and haven't driven the truck in a few months.

Sorry about never getting that wiring diagram posted. I found it, but my scanner isn't working for some reason. I can take some pictures of it if you think it might be helpful but it sounds like you are getting it worked out fine on your own.

Plus I'm a little busy with my own project. Finally got my garage cleaned out and started working on pulling my Dragon VX's blown engine and swapping in the 02 Axiom motor. Planning to do a write up on it when I'm done.

blacksambo

01/05/2012, 08:05 PM

Great work. Did you know Isuzu built at least five VX's with manual shift and TOD??? Yes, that's right, rally competition models. You can verify this plus learn a thing or two by consulting the VX parts book. Sections 2-20 and beyond detail the pedals etc. If you don't have access let me know, I'll have my wife scan and post the manual transmission pages. Good luck.

vt_maverick

01/05/2012, 09:30 PM

If you have the time that would be great!!!

vt_maverick

01/05/2012, 10:30 PM

VXorado

01/06/2012, 02:42 AM

So since we know an AR-5 mates to an Ecotec engine is it conceivable that you could swap that engine instead? Discuss... :)

You have boggled my mind with this statement.

VXorado

01/06/2012, 02:53 AM

Buffy

01/06/2012, 04:54 AM

Sorry about never getting that wiring diagram posted. I found it, but my scanner isn't working for some reason. I can take some pictures of it if you think it might be helpful but it sounds like you are getting it worked out fine on your own.

If you can take a picture of the diagrams it would be great. I can take all the information I can get at this point. If nothing else to make sure I am thinking correctly. :)

Buffy

01/06/2012, 05:04 AM

blacksambo

01/06/2012, 07:39 AM

Also, did you know that the VX auto tranny was used on '91-'92 3 series BMW's? So there's another engine option.

You guys should be talking to Bruce Garland in OZ. He built several manual shift VX's for competition, like the Australian Safari Rally etc.

vt_maverick

01/06/2012, 09:00 AM

No thanks, not trying to make my engine less reliable AND more expensive to fix. :p

blacksambo

01/06/2012, 01:19 PM

Good point. Merely letting the gang know all the options out there.

Etfren

01/06/2012, 01:29 PM

Another nice thing about the manual swap is getting a better crawl ratio because the AR5 has a lower first gear than our auto.

Stock VX crawl ratio: 2.86 (1st) x 2.48 (T-case) x 4.30 (axles)= 30.5

Manual VX crawl ratio: 3.75 (1st) x 2.48 (T-case) x 4.30 (axles)=39.9

Sounds like the difference is noticable???

Yup, its got a super low first gear. I haven't wheeled much in a stock VX, but I can tell you I was going down a really steep hill at about 3-4 MPH just letting it cruise down in 1st. Going uphill it pulls really well too.

If you can take a picture of the diagrams it would be great. I can take all the information I can get at this point. If nothing else to make sure I am thinking correctly. :)

I'll see what I can do today and put them up in my gallery.

vt_maverick

01/06/2012, 08:11 PM

Good point. Merely letting the gang know all the options out there.

Just razzin' you a bit sambo - really appreciate the input and look forward to reading the material once you get it scanned. Thanks!

vt_maverick

01/06/2012, 08:22 PM

You have boggled my mind with this statement.

Because it's that dumb of an idea? Or because it's unthinkable to go "down" to a four-banger? :confused:

eternal21

01/07/2012, 12:33 AM

Just learned something... the same AR-5 manual that we're swapping into my VX was also used on the Pontiac Solstice GXP. That car featured a dual-turbo 2.0 L I4 Ecotec engine that made 260 hp and 260 lb-ft torque while getting 19/28 MPG. The VX is heavier by almost a thousand pounds, but you'd drop a good chunk of that just by going from a V6 to an I4...

So since we know an AR-5 mates to an Ecotec engine is it conceivable that you could swap that engine instead? Discuss... :)

Very much so, just wiring the instrument cluster would be the biggest concern. Add'l info: there is also a 2.4 non turbo engine, and it would also appear that the aforementioned 2.0 is the same engine in the Cobalt SS and HHR SS, as per ebay auction 130586906920.

I, for one, in order to increase gas mileage would strongly consider a 2.0L w/a 5MT, especially since there are aftermarket parts to boost the power of the 2.0L.

89Vette

01/07/2012, 08:53 AM

Another nice thing about the manual swap is getting a better crawl ratio because the AR5 has a lower first gear than our auto.

Stock VX crawl ratio: 2.86 (1st) x 2.48 (T-case) x 4.30 (axles)= 30.5

Manual VX crawl ratio: 3.75 (1st) x 2.48 (T-case) x 4.30 (axles)=39.9

Sounds like the difference is noticable???

If this was already posted, please accept my apology. (I read thru the whole thread but don't remember it.)

What's the ratios of the highest gear? The knowledge base says VX trannies have a .72 OD. Is this M5 going to lower hwy RPMs?

VXorado

01/07/2012, 10:28 AM

Because it's that dumb of an idea? Or because it's unthinkable to go "down" to a four-banger? :confused:

No its a pretty clever question and after thinking about it for a while, I didn't have a good answer.

Heavy VX= bad canidate for a 4 cylinder :(

I4 smaller/lighter than 3.5L= good weight shed for VX :)

I4 turbos= possible annoying turbo lag (maybe not since there's 2) :confused:

I4 more HP= that's all good :)

I4 better MPG= also all good :)

Sky/Solstice short production run= that engine could cost big $$$ :(

Too many pros/cons to make a stance. I think its a great idea as long as the extra 45HP goes to the wheels. Then again the MPG alone may make the swap worth it.

VXorado

01/07/2012, 10:37 AM

If this was already posted, please accept my apology. (I read thru the whole thread but don't remember it.)

What's the ratios of the highest gear? The knowledge base says VX trannies have a .72 OD. Is this M5 going to lower hwy RPMs?

No worries, its not posted... until NOW :bgwo::

Aisin AR5 Transmission
1st:3.75
2nd:2.26
3rd:1.37
4th:1.00
5th:0.73
R:3.67

4L30E
1st: 2.86
2nd: 1.62
3rd: 1.00
4th: 0.72
Rev.: 2.00

To answer your question, the OD is about the same but think about all the extra power you'll have going in reverse!

89Vette

01/07/2012, 10:45 AM

eternal21

01/07/2012, 02:40 PM

Often top HP numbers don't tell the whole story. For a 2-ton vehicle, torque is an important consideration. It doesn't matter how much HP you generate if it takes 20-seconds getting it from 0-25mph. (IOW if that HP doesn't happen until higher rpms)

Hmmmmmmmm....interesting article http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2009-pontiac-solstice-gxp-coupe-short-take-road-test There's an upgrade for that 2.0 I4 which consists of an ECU flash and a new MAP sensor. Results: 290hp and 360 lb/ft tq.

The 2008 2.0 engine produces the 260hp @ 5300 rpms, and 260lb/ft tq @ 2000rpms. Considering the VX makes its hp/tq numbers @ 5400rpm and 3000rpm respectively, I think we would be all right ;)

(Source of info: Wikipedia)

vt_maverick

01/07/2012, 03:04 PM

No its a pretty clever question and after thinking about it for a while, I didn't have a good answer.

Heavy VX= bad canidate for a 4 cylinder :(

I4 smaller/lighter than 3.5L= good weight shed for VX :)

I4 turbos= possible annoying turbo lag (maybe not since there's 2) :confused:

I4 more HP= that's all good :)

I4 better MPG= also all good :)

Sky/Solstice short production run= that engine could cost big $$$ :(

Too many pros/cons to make a stance. I think its a great idea as long as the extra 45HP goes to the wheels. Then again the MPG alone may make the swap worth it.

Couple things that I think mitigate the highlighted concerns above. First, if an I4 makes more HP and torque than our 3.5 V6 and weighs less it should be all good. Second, the GXP engine is shared amongst the Solstice, Sky, HHR, and Cobalt so there should be plenty of engines out there. I haven't priced them yet though.

Hmmmmmmmm....interesting article http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2009-pontiac-solstice-gxp-coupe-short-take-road-test There's an upgrade for that 2.0 I4 which consists of an ECU flash and a new MAP sensor. Results: 290hp and 360 lb/ft tq.

The 2008 2.0 engine produces the 260hp @ 5300 rpms, and 260lb/ft tq @ 2000rpms. Considering the VX makes its hp/tq numbers @ 5400rpm and 3000rpm respectively, I think we would be all right ;)

(Source of info: Wikipedia)

I saw that too, and here's an interesting note. Although the AR-5 is only rated at 260 lb-ft of torque, if you have a certified GM dealership install this turbo upgrade it does not void your factory powertrain warranty. So does that mean the transmission will handle that much more power? Or does the GM warranty not cover the clutch or other parts? In either case GM must believe it will be reliable enough not to piss off upgrade customers.

vt_maverick

01/07/2012, 03:08 PM

Very much so, just wiring the instrument cluster would be the biggest concern. Add'l info: there is also a 2.4 non turbo engine, and it would also appear that the aforementioned 2.0 is the same engine in the Cobalt SS and HHR SS, as per ebay auction 130586906920.

I, for one, in order to increase gas mileage would strongly consider a 2.0L w/a 5MT, especially since there are aftermarket parts to boost the power of the 2.0L.

+1, my thoughts exactly (mileage AND power without adding the weight of extra cylinders). I wonder if you could just replace the VX instrument cluster with a Solstice / Sky / HHR / Cobalt cluster? You'd lose the TOD lights and odometer, but maybe something could be worked out? I suppose it depends on how integrated the clusters are.

Buffy

01/07/2012, 04:06 PM

Feeling better and got a bit more done.

Completed pedals and interior...

https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/902428/fullsize/100_2080.jpg

I took my dremel and opened up the stock console some to accommodate the shift pattern. I am still trying to find a shift boot for this...

https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/902429/fullsize/100_2081.jpg

I took the connectors for the auto and taped them to the harness. Here is the harness ready to be installed...

https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/902430/fullsize/100_2082.jpg

Here is where all the majic happens. I am having a connector sent to me and will make a harness for the clutch switch, backup light switch, and hopefully cruise...

https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/902431/fullsize/100_2083.jpg

I ran the breather tube for the transfer case up into the engine compartment...

https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/902432/fullsize/100_2084.jpg

The big challenge is getting the wires run and connected to the correct O2 sensor. Another challenge is keeping wires away from the hot exhaust parts.

Mile High VX

01/07/2012, 04:11 PM

I am still trying to find a shift boot for this.

Should arrive on Monday along with all of the interior parts from the Passport...hope it all works out well...:bwgy::smilewink:bgwo::bgwb:

VXorado

01/07/2012, 04:15 PM

Can you use the wiring harness from the Trooper? You had to change the ECU, right?

Also it looks like the manual shifter fits in the VX console, thats a nice easy solution.

Buffy

01/07/2012, 04:22 PM

You have to use the harness from the VX due to the wiring for the TOD. Yes, I used the computer from the Trooper.

VXorado

01/07/2012, 04:25 PM

Okay, that makes sense.

vt_maverick

01/07/2012, 04:41 PM

Very cool, glad to hear you're feeling better.

Earl - I will send you payment tonight as we discussed. Sorry for the delay!

Mile High VX

01/07/2012, 04:57 PM

Very cool, glad to hear you're feeling better.

Earl - I will send you payment tonight as we discussed. Sorry for the delay!

No problem sir...I know you been enjoying time with the family and that always comes first...:yeso::yesb::yesgray::yesy:

Etfren

01/08/2012, 02:04 PM

For some reason I am having issues with putting them in my gallery, but I got them in my photobucket so here are the pictures I promised.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/Etfren/Cars/IMGP5634.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/Etfren/Cars/IMGP5633.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/Etfren/Cars/IMGP5632.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/Etfren/Cars/IMGP5631.jpg

Buffy

01/08/2012, 04:41 PM

I have the main harness installed and all the O2 sensors connected. To connect the last O2 I had to spilt the O2 wires out and make a separate housing. The last VX O2 sensor on the passenger side will now be the last sensor on the driver side, this is because we used the Trooper head pipe. I fabbed a heat shield out of the old starter shield. I am pleased it will protect the wiring.

Here I am separating the O2 wiring from the stock wiring harness...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/902482/fullsize/100_2085.jpg

Here is where I "Y" the harness...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/902483/fullsize/100_2086.jpg

Here you can see where I routed the new O2 harness...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/902484/fullsize/100_2087.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/902486/fullsize/100_2088.jpg

The connection is made above the transfer case...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/902487/fullsize/100_2089.jpg

The finished install...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/902488/fullsize/100_2090.jpg

This is the passenger side of the transmission. The sensor with the blue connector is the backup light sensor...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/902490/fullsize/100_2092.jpg

Chopper

01/08/2012, 04:51 PM

Buffy

01/08/2012, 05:13 PM

I'm late to the thread....sorry.
Did you hang the third pedal? How tight was/is the footwell for you? I have size 13s....I need room, But the box seems big enough...yes? At a glance it seems straightforward enough.
A Deadpedal would be nice too....but that ain't happening with the clutch

I installed both the clutch and brake pedal from a manual shift Rodeo. It is a little tight in the foot well but I have very long legs. Size 13s might be a challenge I would find a manual Rodeo and check that out, the VX would be the same. Hanging new pedals is straight forward, just a lot of sharp corners to deal with. One headace was getting the security computer(s) remounted out of the way. I ended up velcroing them to the ac housing and it worked out pretty nicely.

vt_maverick

01/08/2012, 08:34 PM

Did you hang the third pedal? How tight was/is the footwell for you? I have size 13s....I need room, But the box seems big enough...yes? At a glance it seems straightforward enough.
A Deadpedal would be nice too....but that ain't happening with the clutch

I installed both the clutch and brake pedal from a manual shift Rodeo. It is a little tight in the foot well but I have very long legs. Size 13s might be a challenge.

Chopper - I wear size 13's too so I'll be able to give you a good review when I get it back. Here's a picture with the pedals installed; as you can see the manual brake pedal is smaller than the auto brake pedal, so while it might be a little cramped between the clutch and brake it should actually cut down on the number of times I accidentally hit the brake and accelerator together. I agree that a dead pedal would be nice, I'm actually considering replacing our pedals with 350Z aluminum pedals if they fit.

Here's a pic of the new footwell:

https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/902428/fullsize/100_2080.jpg

And here's a pic of the 350Z pedals:

http://www.johnclare.com/pics/cars/pedals_final.jpg

vt_maverick

01/08/2012, 09:01 PM

Buffy

01/09/2012, 05:07 AM

Greg - Couple questions for you:

First, is that the catalytic converter in the upper left of this pic? If so man that's a lot of rust! :o
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/902483/fullsize/100_2086.jpg

Second, I assume you have the wires zip-tied to the cross-member. Do you think there will be a problem when I reinstall my Kilby skid plates? And do you think I could just "lay" it in the bottom of the skid plate?
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/902488/fullsize/100_2090.jpg

Last, do you still need the connector you mentioned in the earlier post? Or did you work something out?

Lookin' awesome Greg!!!

Yes that is the cat in the first picture, there really isn't as much rust on the pipe as it looks in the picture. It just looks dirty in the pictures. If there were tons of rust that I was not comfortable with I would have let you know about it. :)

The wire is held to the cross member with factor ties and is in its original location. It should work fine with your Kilby skid plate if you previously did not move these wires.

Jerry is sending me the connector I was wanting. He even went as far as to mark which wires should tie into clutch switch, etc. I hope to get that in the next day or so and get this puppy back on the ground and back in your anxious hands!

vt_maverick

01/09/2012, 06:15 AM

Cool, thanks Greg!

eternal21

01/09/2012, 09:44 AM

Chopper - I wear size 13's too so I'll be able to give you a good review when I get it back. Here's a picture with the pedals installed; as you can see the manual brake pedal is smaller than the auto brake pedal, so while it might be a little cramped between the clutch and brake it should actually cut down on the number of times I accidentally hit the brake and accelerator together. I agree that a dead pedal would be nice, I'm actually considering replacing our pedals with 350Z aluminum pedals if they fit.

Small space = perfect for heel/toe shifting :)

Buffy

01/14/2012, 06:18 PM

I have completed the wiring. I tested everything out and it all seems to work perfect. I need to bleed the clutch again to make sure all the air is out. It seemed to be a bit soft after I cranked it up and ran it through the gears.

Here is where I routed the new wire harness through the fire wall.

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/903039/fullsize/100_2095.jpg

This is the clutch switch. This is where you connect the starter relay (large red & yellow wires on connector)

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/903040/fullsize/100_2097.jpg

This is the neutral switch. This is where you connect the cruise wires.

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/903041/fullsize/100_2098.jpg

Don't get these two backwards. The clutch switch completes the circuit when you press the clutch allowing the are to start. The neutral switch comletes its circuit by being closed so when you depress the pedal you break the curcuit thus causing the cruise to disengage.

Here are the wiring notes on the wiring harness...

The first picture refers to the blue wire and organge wire with black stripe...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/903042/fullsize/100_2101.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/903043/fullsize/100_2102.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/903044/fullsize/100_2103.jpg

New harness run under the car and connections about to be made...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/903046/fullsize/100_2105.jpg

I wrapped the wire harness with some heat shielding tape to further protect it from heat...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/903045/fullsize/100_2104.jpg

Buffy

01/14/2012, 06:21 PM

Completed interior!!

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/903049/fullsize/100_2106.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/903047/fullsize/100_2108.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/903048/fullsize/100_2109.jpg

vt_maverick

01/14/2012, 06:50 PM

:drool2: Absolutely fantastic!!! Now how in the heck am I supposed to sleep tonight knowing that she's coming home tomorrow?!?

:dan_ban: :dance: :_steering :_beer:

Mile High VX

01/14/2012, 06:53 PM

:drool2: Absolutely fantastic!!! Now how in the heck am I supposed to sleep tonight knowing that she's coming home tomorrow?!?

:dan_ban: :dance: :_steering :_beer:

Like a four year old on Christmas eve of course...not at all!

VXorado

01/14/2012, 07:18 PM

Yay, looks great.:wishes:

RabidPony

01/14/2012, 08:03 PM

So, when can I ship you mine? :bwgy:

Vendetta

01/14/2012, 10:36 PM

Wow. Just... wow. Unbelievable job.

Mav, videos are a must.

Ldub

01/15/2012, 07:10 AM

Wow. Just... wow. Unbelievable job.

Mav, videos are a must.

X a factor 0f deux...:thumbup:

Someone PLEASE get this archived into the "how to" section...:yesgray:.:_wrench:

vt_maverick

01/15/2012, 08:02 AM

Wow. Just... wow. Unbelievable job.

Mav, videos are a must.

I will try V, have to figure out how to mount the camera in the backseat so you guys can see the shifting though... :_thinking

Buffy

01/15/2012, 08:28 AM

We are all loaded up. Ashley is going to have fun driving this thing. If I weren't selling mine I would be out in search of a donor Trooper myself! This thing is FUN to drive!!!!

Heading your way Ashley! I'll post a few more pictures when I get home tonight.

VXorado

01/15/2012, 08:46 AM

If I weren't selling mine I would be out in search of a donor Trooper myself!

Would you say its best to get a donor Trooper or can everything be gathered easily (other than the trans) from a local junkyard?

rowhard

01/15/2012, 10:33 AM

For some reason I am having issues with putting them in my gallery, but I got them in my photobucket so here are the pictures I promised.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/Etfren/Cars/IMGP5631.jpg
These seem like they are pretty important sheets of paper. Any chance you could type them out and add them to the archive Ldub suggested in post 108. (I deleted most of the photo's to save space)

vt_maverick

01/15/2012, 03:58 PM

vt_maverick

01/15/2012, 04:03 PM

Would you say its best to get a donor Trooper or can everything be gathered easily (other than the trans) from a local junkyard?

Greg and I had this conversation just before he left and we're both in agreement that working from a donor vehicle is much easier. It really is questionable whether you could assemble everything piecemeal for less $$$, and you can't beat the convenience of being able to look at the way the manual was wired from the factory while performing the install in the VX. For me it turned out to be a real steal - my $800 got us the 94K transmission, ECM, wiring harness, exhaust, master cylinder, shift boots and shifter, clutch switch (or was it neutral switch Greg?), and probably a few other things I can't remember right now.

Ldub

01/15/2012, 04:28 PM

I :heart: a happy ending...:yes:

Though for you Mav, it's just the beginning.:dance:

KUDO's to da boda-yuh...:thumbup:

Great work...:_wrench:

If I was you, I'd have a hard time not say'n "F-sleep", throwin' Golden Earring on the speakers, & making the lyrics come true...:naughty:

"I been drivin' all night, my hand's wet on the wheel"...:_steering

VXjunky

01/15/2012, 04:39 PM

ashley was this swap performed to your old (RIP) carcass or the new replacement VX

vt_maverick

01/15/2012, 04:49 PM

This swap was on my new (to me) VX.

Buffy

01/15/2012, 06:04 PM

I am pleased and relieved that Ashley is enjoying the work. I very seldom work for other people because I am too picky and critical of my work. So, here are a couple more pictures to finish this off with.....

Here is the completed wiring harness I made for the clutch swithces...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/903248/fullsize/100_2118.jpg

The last item to address was the trans cooler lines in the radiator. I just removed one of the lines and looped the other over...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/903249/fullsize/100_2119.jpg

The transplant is complete and the patient is back better than new. Thats a wrap for Dr. Buffy :bwgy: :smilewink :bgwo:...

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/903251/fullsize/100_2120.jpg

On our way to make a little boys Christmas wish come true!

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/903252/fullsize/100_2122.jpg

Etfren

01/16/2012, 02:15 AM

Fantastic job Buffy! Looks great and is sounds like Ashley is loving it!

RabidPony

01/16/2012, 06:19 PM

What year range donor Trooper would be best?

Buffy

01/16/2012, 06:24 PM

The 99 Trooper is the best. I think after 99 the Troopers went to drive by wire. But over all any 98 and above will work. 2000 and up will require you to have the computer reprogrammed.

SilverBullet75

01/16/2012, 07:29 PM

Does it matter what engine it has? Isn't there a 4 cyl, 5 speed?

vt_maverick

01/16/2012, 08:28 PM

According to Edmunds the 3.5 V6 was the only option in 98 and 99. I think they discontinued the 4 cylinder on the previous generation maybe?

SilverBullet75

01/16/2012, 10:40 PM

Were there any issues mounting the new transmission to the VX chassis?

Buffy

01/17/2012, 04:56 AM

Were there any issues mounting the new transmission to the VX chassis?

It is a direct swap. Meaning the cross member is the same even your original driveshafts are reused. Everything bolts into place. You have to remember the VX is built on the RS Trooper frame that the US did not get. All parts and pieces bolt in place using factory hardware.

VXorado

01/17/2012, 07:40 AM

Buffy, do you have a write-up on the wiring harness? Seems like the wiring was the most challenging part of this swap.

Another possibility, I would be willing to buy a harness from you if you want to make another one.

Greg and I had this conversation just before he left and we're both in agreement that working from a donor vehicle is much easier. It really is questionable whether you could assemble everything piecemeal for less $$$, and you can't beat the convenience of being able to look at the way the manual was wired from the factory while performing the install in the VX. For me it turned out to be a real steal - my $800 got us the 94K transmission, ECM, wiring harness, exhaust, master cylinder, shift boots and shifter, clutch switch (or was it neutral switch Greg?), and probably a few other things I can't remember right now.

Good call, I started looking on craigslist & found a 99 with engine problems for $1000. I'm not buying yet but can imagine it will be much easier to get a troubled Trooper than running back & forth to the parts yard.

Buffy

01/17/2012, 08:06 AM

Buffy, do you have a write-up on the wiring harness? Seems like the wiring was the most challenging part of this swap.

Another possibility, I would be willing to buy a harness from you if you want to make another one.

Good call, I started looking on craigslist & found a 99 with engine problems for $1000. I'm not buying yet but can imagine it will be much easier to get a troubled Trooper than running back & forth to the parts yard.

The wiring was the biggest unknown for me going in. In the end it was very simple once I had the answers of course. I was thinking about creating a word document and maybe get it posted for reference. I will make sure the wiring portion of the write up is detailed.

Buying a 99 Trooper is the best way to do this conversion. There are alot of small pieces you can rob off it, there will be bolts, etc. be sure to save the manual heat shields as those will be important! The computer is a direct swap in, no reprogramming needed. You can use the hard line for the clutch master cylinder and the actual clutch master. I had to use the clutch switch from the donor. I used the wiring harness from the manual to make the connection for the backup lights and pulled wires from it to make the harness that went to the neautral and clutch switches. You run 4 wires to the switches ansd you are good. You can get the mode switch off the auto tranny and modify it for the swap. I might be able to create a wiring harness that is a pluc and play kind of thing by the time you get ready for it. Just send me tha old harnesses and I will send you what you need to install.

There are some gotchas to look out for like the OEM clutch kit does not include a clutch alignment tool. Advance Auto sells one for $1.50, Auto Zone and O'Riely did not offer one. The OEM slave cylinder does not include the push rod, usually not a big deal, but I was missing mine and had to go out and buy a cheapie slave cylinder to get the rod.

I will detail all of this in the write up.

VXorado

01/17/2012, 08:16 AM

Great, can't wait for the write-up and we'll talk about the harness when the time is right. I need to buy a house first so I have a nice big garage :bgwo:

vt_maverick

01/17/2012, 08:50 AM

VXorado - how many miles on your donor?

VXorado

01/17/2012, 08:57 AM

The ad didn't say. I'll be looking this summer & will start the swap once I find a low mileage donor.

SilverBullet75

01/17/2012, 11:41 AM

What kind of mileage do you recommend to stay under on this type of transmission?

Or, should it be rebuilt before installation into the VX (obviously a safer bet..)?

Buffy

01/17/2012, 11:56 AM

According to Jerry Lemond anything under 150K should be fine. Anything above that you may want to consider having it gone through.

blacksambo

01/17/2012, 12:01 PM

Well Greg and I met a few hours ago and I drove the VX back to my place and promptly parked her in the garage (need to do a few things before I leave her tomorrow afternoon for a business trip :(). I've only driven her those 7-8 miles but I can tell you this much: someone at Isuzu should have been fired for not offering the VX with a manual option. It's a completely different driving experience with the manual, way more fun even with the puny stock 215 HP. The clutch is buttery smooth both in terms of pedal travel and the "feel" of moving between gears. The ratios are interesting in the AR-5, 1st and 2nd are strong enough to pull you forward without even pressing on the gas - and I'm pretty sure you could start out in 2nd if you wanted to. Should be LOADS of fun once I get "launching" down... :D And of course the install was just as clean in person as you'd expect from the pictures Greg's posted here - just a little bit of Dremel work was required to keep the stock VX center console.

I am VERY impressed and EXTREMELY happy with the finished product. Now I'm going to go back out to the garage and think up an excuse to drive her again tomorrow morning before I leave. :) Thanks again Greg! Fantastic job!!! :thumbup:

I have to remark here. No Isuzu did not miss the manual shift option, in fact five were built for factory racing efforts. What we must remember is that VX was a concept car that was designed to be seen by more than the auto show attendees. That mean't it had to be inviting to drive by the widest range of potential drivers possible. A lot of people hate manual shift. They think it's too much work, especially for a $30K purchase price vehicle. Isuzu was looking for lots of street exposure of the VX design to trumpet their style capability. Average Joe's climbing rock piles was not the intended purpose. That terrain already belonged to dowdy Jeeps. Isuzu was gunning for the suburban weekend warrior showing off in the supermarket parking lot so somebody would be inspired buy an Ascender or Axiom to please their wife, but still remember fun the VX halo cast on their family everyday vehicle.

rsteinmetz70112

01/17/2012, 12:38 PM

If I recall correctly there were also consideration of passing emissions tests with manuals.

blacksambo

01/17/2012, 02:29 PM

I'd be curious to know more about that emissions issue, if you have any info on that?

VXorado

01/17/2012, 05:20 PM

Isuzu was looking for lots of street exposure of the VX design to trumpet their style capability. Average Joe's climbing rock piles was not the intended purpose. That terrain already belonged to dowdy Jeeps.

Surprisingly the trend is going toward auto transmissions in the 4 wheeling scene mainly because its much easier to drive an auto in rough terrain. Racing is manual transmission's last stand but with dual clutch autos now being used in supercars, they may be fazed out on the track too.

Personally I love manuals & can't wait to be stalling out on those rock piles soon :thumbup:

rsteinmetz70112

01/17/2012, 06:03 PM

I'd be curious to know more about that emissions issue, if you have any info on that?

Not really it was just something rattling around in my brain.

vt_maverick

01/17/2012, 06:17 PM

I have to remark here. No Isuzu did not miss the manual shift option, in fact five were built for factory racing efforts. What we must remember is that VX was a concept car that was designed to be seen by more than the auto show attendees. That mean't it had to be inviting to drive by the widest range of potential drivers possible. A lot of people hate manual shift. They think it's too much work, especially for a $30K purchase price vehicle. Isuzu was looking for lots of street exposure of the VX design to trumpet their style capability. Average Joe's climbing rock piles was not the intended purpose. That terrain already belonged to dowdy Jeeps. Isuzu was gunning for the suburban weekend warrior showing off in the supermarket parking lot so somebody would be inspired buy an Ascender or Axiom to please their wife, but still remember fun the VX halo cast on their family everyday vehicle.

Yes they did miss the manual shift option - notice I said "not offering the VX with manual option." Saying a race truck counts as an "offering" is like saying that Ford offers a 1000 HP engine in their Taurus because they built a handful of NASCAR cars. I agree that not everyone wants a manual, which is why most manufacturers generally offer only 10-20% of their models as manuals, even in sports cars (the Infiniti G35 is a good example of that tactic). In this case they elected to go all in on one transmission type, which I think is a shame. I believe 10% of original owners might have opted for the manual option, especially given the opportunity to gain a few MPGs.

Also, the purpose of a manual is not exclusively (and certainly not primarily) for rock crawling. If anything a manual makes the on-street driving experience more fun for those that like a manual transmission. I doubt many owners will actually ever do this swap, but I do think those that do will really enjoy the change.

vt_maverick

01/17/2012, 06:18 PM

If I recall correctly there were also consideration of passing emissions tests with manuals.

I'd be curious to know more about that emissions issue, if you have any info on that?

The Trooper exhaust that we switched in was only from the headers to the catalytic converter - everything from the cat to the tailpipe stayed the same. I don't see how a transmission change would affect emissions, unless it resulted in lower MPGs?

vt_maverick

01/17/2012, 06:21 PM

Surprisingly the trend is going toward auto transmissions in the 4 wheeling scene mainly because its much easier to drive an auto in rough terrain. Racing is manual transmission's last stand but with dual clutch autos now being used in supercars, they may be fazed out on the track too.

Personally I love manuals & can't wait to be stalling out on those rock piles soon :thumbup:

Lol - I think if I did a lot of crawling I would have strongly considered staying with the auto for just that reason. But since I do 90-95% street driving with a few trips in the deep sand each summer it's a much better choice. I also think the extremely low gearing in 1st and 2nd will come in handy when it snows - I can basically use those gears like the "Winter Mode" on the automatic but with more control.

blacksambo

01/17/2012, 07:33 PM

Lol - I think if I did a lot of crawling I would have strongly considered staying with the auto for just that reason. But since I do 90-95% street driving with a few trips in the deep sand each summer it's a much better choice. I also think the extremely low gearing in 1st and 2nd will come in handy when it snows - I can basically use those gears like the "Winter Mode" on the automatic but with more control.

I think you might have the winter logic idea a bit off? You don't use lower gears for snow/ice. You use higher gears to start to reduce torque output on slippery surfaces. That's what winter mode does. It starts you automatically in third gear instead of first. You use lower gears for more torque application on grippy surfaces facing steep grade climbs, and for pulling stumps out of the ground. I hope this helps.

vt_maverick

01/17/2012, 07:47 PM

You're right, got that backwards. Was thinking the lower ratios were at the bottom and not at the top (duh). Good catch. :thumbup:

blacksambo

01/17/2012, 07:49 PM

I gotta love your enthusiasm, though!

vt_maverick

01/17/2012, 09:38 PM

I've got spirit, yes I do, I've got spirit, how about you? ;) :laughy:

LittleBeast

01/17/2012, 10:36 PM

Awesome!!!!! So when my 3.5L finally goes out and I have it rebuilt and bored-out to 4.0L I might need to go to the AR-5 as well, hmmmmm.

Also does AR-5 sound like an assault rifle to anyone else?

RabidPony

01/17/2012, 11:19 PM

Also does AR-5 sound like an assault rifle to anyone else?

So, if an AR-15 shoots 5.56 and an AR-10 shoots 7.62x51, then what the hell would an AR-5 shoot?:rollb2:

Ldub

01/18/2012, 06:09 AM

So, if an AR-15 shoots 5.56 and an AR-10 shoots 7.62x51, then what the hell would an AR-5 shoot?:rollb2:

Fiddy (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CDwQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gunblast.com%2F50Beowulf.htm&ei=2NEWT9vxGMjaggfiv9nFAw&usg=AFQjCNG7OY7BGXabUd8bgV2OFmm5JNXuBA&sig2=G96QbthoXjfReBBNgCqO_Q)...:yesgray:

Buffy

01/18/2012, 06:12 AM

So, if an AR-15 shoots 5.56 and an AR-10 shoots 7.62x51, then what the hell would an AR-5 shoot?:rollb2:

Hmmmmmm .223????? 22-20??? :?:

eternal21

05/27/2012, 11:53 AM

The wiring was the biggest unknown for me going in. In the end it was very simple once I had the answers of course. I was thinking about creating a word document and maybe get it posted for reference. I will make sure the wiring portion of the write up is detailed.

Buying a 99 Trooper is the best way to do this conversion. There are alot of small pieces you can rob off it, there will be bolts, etc. be sure to save the manual heat shields as those will be important! The computer is a direct swap in, no reprogramming needed. You can use the hard line for the clutch master cylinder and the actual clutch master. I had to use the clutch switch from the donor. I used the wiring harness from the manual to make the connection for the backup lights and pulled wires from it to make the harness that went to the neautral and clutch switches. You run 4 wires to the switches ansd you are good. You can get the mode switch off the auto tranny and modify it for the swap. I might be able to create a wiring harness that is a pluc and play kind of thing by the time you get ready for it. Just send me tha old harnesses and I will send you what you need to install.

There are some gotchas to look out for like the OEM clutch kit does not include a clutch alignment tool. Advance Auto sells one for $1.50, Auto Zone and O'Riely did not offer one. The OEM slave cylinder does not include the push rod, usually not a big deal, but I was missing mine and had to go out and buy a cheapie slave cylinder to get the rod.

I will detail all of this in the write up.

About that write up..... ;)

Etfren

05/27/2012, 02:17 PM

Thanks for bumping this Eternal, reminded me I had a question for Mav.

What RPM are you running at at 60 and 70 MPH? Curious about some stuff on my rig and you are the only other person with a 5-speed to compare too. Glad you made it out to Moab, it was cool to see your setup in person.

vt_maverick

05/28/2012, 07:38 AM

Checked last night and 60 MPH was about 2300-2400 and 70 MPH was roughly 2700-2800. IIRC from the trip 80 MPH was 3100-3200. How does that compare?

VXorado

05/28/2012, 08:03 AM

:grino: I drove the 5 speed in Moab and the 3.5L-AR5-TOD work really great together. I'm very surprised Isuzu didn't add the option when they put the VX into production.

I'm waiting for my 4l30e to show some signs of failure... then the 5 speed swap will be at the top of my list.

Etfren

05/28/2012, 10:50 AM

Checked last night and 60 MPH was about 2300-2400 and 70 MPH was roughly 2700-2800. IIRC from the trip 80 MPH was 3100-3200. How does that compare?

Awesome, thanks for checking.

I spent most of my drive with the cruise set at 60 on the speedo, but thanks to my 35's, my GPS said I was doing 72 MPH. I was right on 2500 RPM.

89Vette

05/28/2012, 01:51 PM

Checked last night and 60 MPH was about 2300-2400 and 70 MPH was roughly 2700-2800. IIRC from the trip 80 MPH was 3100-3200. How does that compare?

Pretty darn close to stock. IIRC, the 5th gear is the same as 4th in the stock automatic. So, it stands to reason there won't be any difference on the hwy.

89Vette

05/28/2012, 01:52 PM

Awesome, thanks for checking.

I spent most of my drive with the cruise set at 60 on the speedo, but thanks to my 35's, my GPS said I was doing 72 MPH. I was right on 2500 RPM.

Bigger tires would lower the torque rating at the rear wheels. IOW, making it feel a hair less powerful. Plus, we've yet to see anyone report an improvement in MPG from larger tires. Looks and traction are cool though!

vt_maverick

05/28/2012, 03:06 PM

Pretty darn close to stock. IIRC, the 5th gear is the same as 4th in the stock automatic. So, it stands to reason there won't be any difference on the hwy.

Yeah I've come to realize that there aren't serious MPG gains with the AR-5 in highway driving. But the fun-to-drive factor and (hopefully) better reliability still make it well worth it IMHO.

Ldub

05/28/2012, 04:21 PM

On 35's with 4:77's...(All values in 4th, TC locked)

55=2k

68ish=2.5k

Pulling trailer, 13.47 mpg best recorded on Moab excursion.

Etfren

05/30/2012, 01:07 AM

Bigger tires would lower the torque rating at the rear wheels. IOW, making it feel a hair less powerful. Plus, we've yet to see anyone report an improvement in MPG from larger tires. Looks and traction are cool though!

Oh yeah, it accelerates way slower than it did on stock size tires due to the extra weight and change in the gearing. Mileage wise, I only ran about one full tank through it on stock tires and got 16 MPG. I've been getting the same 16 MPG average with the 35's so far.

On my trip to Moab most of my tanks I got 16 MPG as well. The best I got was one tank of 20 MPG, which was the last tank coming into Moab. I think it was 'cause I was driving a bit slower coming down Hwy 6 and I had the TOD off. I left the TOD off the whole way home and didn't notice any mileage difference.

Yeah I've come to realize that there aren't serious MPG gains with the AR-5 in highway driving. But the fun-to-drive factor and (hopefully) better reliability still make it well worth it IMHO.

Doesn't seem to be. I wish we could get a 6-speed with a super low 1st gear for crawling and a nice long 6th gear for highway cruising. The fun to drive factor is certainly a nice feature of the 5-speed though.

eternal21

06/30/2012, 02:26 PM

Buffy, I'm wondering if you could answer a question for me. I'm in the midst of my swap, and I had a question about the brake pedal assembly.

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901677/fullsize/100_2047.jpg

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/901701/fullsize/100_2054.jpg

In the top picture, you have them displayed side by side, with the Vehicross pedal on the right, the Trooper pedal on the left. When I pulled the brake pedal bracket assembly there is a noticeable size difference, as well as a the bolt holes along the top not matching up. Obviously you got the Trooper pedal assembly inside. Did you a) disassemble the bracket assembly and just take the pedal arms, or did you b) somehow mate the entire pedal assembly in there by re-drilling the mating holes?

tom4bren

03/19/2013, 02:23 PM

I didn't see where anyone had started a document on this mod so I took a cut at it. It only contains info in this thread & I think that Buffy had a lot of stuff he wanted to add to it. I still need to clean it up IRT layout & stuff but it's worthless to do that until all of the content is in there.

Word file is too large to post here. The attachment is a low res pdf so don't worry about the image quality for now (just the content). Y'all can just email me stuff you want added or I can try to find a FTP to post it to for all to access.

BTW, I'm missing some pix on page 34. If anyone has them, lemme know.

tom4bren

03/21/2013, 04:26 AM

Hopefully sending the Word file to Buffy today so fingers crossed that a full write up will be forthcoming soon.:dan_ban::dan_ban::dan_ban:

bartmanS4

03/21/2013, 02:52 PM

Hey Tom,
I've got some more information that should go into this since I just did the swap.
1. The fuel lines from the Trooper will work. The VX connections are different towards the engine but just cut the rubber line before the connectors and install the same way they are on the Trooper with hose clamps.

2. Cruise control needs a constant 12v to go to pin 12 of connector B-9 at the cruise control module interrupted by the clutch switch. This can be done at either the CC module itself which is located behind the kick panel on the passenger side. This can be done by running two wires under and behind the dash splicing into pin 1 and 12 of B-9 and connecting to the lower of the two clutch switches. This is how I did it but it was tougher to do than I expected. Or you can run the wires from the clutch switch out of the firewall and down to the mode switch connector M-25 pins 5 (D) 12v and 7 (B) cruise.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/CruiseContClutchSW.JPG

3. Pins 1 & 4 of M-25 need to be shorted to start the car. I shorted them directly at the M-25 mode switch. The downside of this is the car can be started when the trans is in gear and the clutch is not depressed. No big deal to me but some people might not want that. To avoid this run these back through the upper clutch switch for starter interlock i.e. car can only be started with the clutch pedal depressed. Pins 1 & 4 are the two thick wires on that connector. Because I didn't do it this way I didn't need to run any wiring through the firewall.

4. Brake pedal doesn't have to be changed but it is too close to the clutch pedal in it's current state. I cut mine down to the size of the clutch pedal with a cutting wheel and now there is no clearance issues.

5. The only electrical connection that needs to go to the 5 spd tranny is for the reverse lamp. This goes from M-25 pin 5 (D) 12v and pin 2 (F) to the blue two pin connector on the tranny.

6. The shift indicator controller box can be removed. This is the small plastic box that is right above the alarm/keyless entry module in this picture.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/ATindicator.jpg

7. Remove the A/T lamp from the instrument cluster to get rid of the shift light.

8. Try fitting the console over the shifter and running through the gears before doing any trimming as you may not need to do any at all.

That's all I can think of right now.

tom4bren

03/25/2013, 06:14 AM

Thanks. I added it to the file. I was about to send the Word file to Buffy on a CD. I'll burn a fresh copy with this added info before mailing in case he wants to use any of the info.

vt_maverick

03/25/2013, 03:12 PM

I thought about removing the Check Trans and "L" gear lights but decided to leave them in place because they're actually kind of useful. Granted the Check Trans (i.e. Upshift) is a bit of a granny light but the "L" light tells you whether the clutch is engaged or not. A month or so after I got the VX back from Greg the cruise control stopped working and eventually the absence of the "L" light clued me in that the clutch pedal wasn't coming all the way up. Turns out that clutch switch is pretty sensitive and only needed 1/8-1/4" extra up travel, so without that light I can't imagine how hard it would have been to figure out the problem.

Just food for thought. What I really would like to do is to grab the gauges for a manual Trooper and see if they could somehow be made to work. Beyond my skill level though...

tom4bren

03/26/2013, 02:48 PM

We almost got a 5 Spd VX in Fredericksburg. A local dealer was supposed to get one in last week (an Ebony). Boy found out about it & has been hanging around the dealership ever since. It still wasn't there today so the manager called about it. It was delivered to a dealership in Baltimore and was sold the very same day. Now we'll never know who's it was or how it was done.

Buffy

03/26/2013, 06:30 PM

Very interesting.... been reviewing the PDF that was completed. I seem to remember Ashley has an issue with the oxygen sensors. I may have gotten a couple wired backwards. Can you add anything Ashley??

bartmanS4

03/26/2013, 10:04 PM

I used the Trooper exhaust and so just had to unravel the wiring harness like you documented Buffy. I had a bad o2 sensor and associated codes prior to the swap. No codes or CEL since.

vt_maverick

03/29/2013, 06:33 PM

IIRC the post cat O2 sensors were installed pre cat and vice versa so the computer couldn't figure out why the emissions were being INCREASED by the cat.

kickerfox

04/11/2013, 11:16 PM

Hello everyone.

Buffy, I'm doing a 6VE1 swap into an RX-8 and I'd like to know what transmission that is. Every trans I've found from a Trooper has a one-piece housing. I need to find that bell housing you used so I can mate a R154 to it. The R154 has shifter options I'll need to match shifter location.

Thanks for any help. :)

vt_maverick

04/12/2013, 07:47 AM

It's an Aisin AR-5. You shouldn't have a problem finding one in a yard on a 98-02 5-speed Trooper.

kickerfox

04/12/2013, 11:07 AM

Hmm. I wonder why I keep finding the other one (mau5?).

I guess I'll keep looking.

btw I saw your VX thread. Nice ride.

vt_maverick

04/12/2013, 11:16 AM

Thanks man. The MUA5 was used in late first generation Troopers (89-91) but much more commonly in V6 Rodeos, Passports, and Amigos. I believe it did bolt up to the 3.2 as well so maybe that's another option. Member Buffy can give you a dissertation on the differences I'm sure.

Buffy

04/12/2013, 11:47 AM

It can bolt to a 3.2. Not sure how hard it will be to find a 2wd version of the AR-5 trans. I believe there are other versions out there though. Pretty popular tranny.

Buffy

04/12/2013, 11:53 AM

While doing the 5 speed swap in my race truck my racing partner and I dissected the transmission wiring harness. We were able to do away with the green plug entirely and pretty much reduced the trans wire harness by half. I am considering offering a swap program where I rebuild the auto wire harness for the swap so that it is a plug and play venture. Just plug it in and everything works! Any interest in such a service?

kickerfox

04/12/2013, 11:53 AM

It's really the bell housing I'm after but if I can put a R154 tail housing on the AR5, even better. If so I'll keep the AR5. I hear it shifts better then a R154 anyways but as it comes out of the trooper, the shifter location wouldn't work.

SilverBullet75

04/12/2013, 10:37 PM

I am considering offering a swap program where I rebuild the auto wire harness for the swap so that it is a plug and play venture. Just plug it in and everything works! Any interest in such a service?

YES!!

My V8 project is scrapped for now, so I'm in search of a 5 speed Trooper to pillage. If you make a kit that is plug and play, I would most likely be a customer.
:yesgray:

SilverBullet75

04/13/2013, 07:16 PM

Not sure how hard it will be to find a 2wd version of the AR-5 trans.

Ask and ye shall receive...
:smilewink

http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/pts/3646294428.html

kickerfox

04/13/2013, 09:16 PM

Ask and ye shall receive...
:smilewink

http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/pts/3646294428.html

Wrong one. I was looking for the AR5 with the removable bell housing.

Found one yesterday. Bought it home today. I'm golden. :)

http://i48.tinypic.com/hteb6s.jpg

SilverBullet75

04/13/2013, 09:33 PM

Awesome! Glad you found it!
BTW, apparently there are also bell housings for the AR5 that adapt the LS V8s!

housertl

04/16/2013, 08:45 AM

YES!!

My V8 project is scrapped for now, so I'm in search of a 5 speed Trooper to pillage. If you make a kit that is plug and play, I would most likely be a customer.
:yesgray:

As would I. Frankly, I wondered if I could bring my VX down to you and have it done, you're only a couple hours away....

Leon R

06/04/2013, 03:56 PM

You lose TOD with the Manual Trooper as its only a 2wd-4hi-4lo. Also you get a 2-1 low gear (:thumbdn:) on the transfer case with the Trooper. Keeping the VX transfer case with this swap is key.

Does this transfer case have a "center" differential, so that it could operate on dry roads like an AWD?

VXorado

06/04/2013, 04:39 PM

Does this transfer case have a "center" differential, so that it could operate on dry roads like an AWD?

No, the 4wd Hi/Low positions are locked. You'll be rolling around in 2wd for dry pavement.

Leon R

06/04/2013, 04:43 PM

Bummer :(. Hard to believe that Isuzu didn't have a center diff option. But I now understand why you go through the considerable effort to adapt TOD.

SilverBullet75

06/12/2013, 12:25 PM

Just a quick verification...
'98 5 speed Trooper 4x4 is 100% compatible with this swap, correct?

vt_maverick

06/12/2013, 12:33 PM

Believe so. IIRC the Trooper's went to electronic throttle vs. throttle cable for 2000 so you must have a 98 or 99 ECU to be compatible with the VX.

Verify with Buffy though.

SilverBullet75

06/12/2013, 12:37 PM

That's what I thought too.
I have my eye on one...
I just don't like the mileage... 175k.

I missed out on one the other day for $750, at 90k.

Thank you!

bartmanS4

06/12/2013, 01:57 PM

Just a quick verification...
'98 5 speed Trooper 4x4 is 100% compatible with this swap, correct?

Yes indeed.
My donor was a high mileage '98. If I could've found a low mileage one I would have but it seems the '98-01 5spd Troopers are a bit rare. Mine does make a strange sound in 3rd and 5th that sounds like the blower fan is on. Don't know what it is but just when the shifter is in the forward position. Probably would do it in 1st too but never go fast enough in 1st to hear it. It stays the same with clutch in or out. Not a big deal and doesn't effect performance but odd just the same.

SilverBullet75

06/12/2013, 02:05 PM

Awesome!
Thank you!

vt_maverick

06/12/2013, 06:32 PM

Stay patient, I paid $800 for my 99 with 93K miles and no engine. Jerry Lemond's recommendation was not to service the AR-5 before 150K miles, so I don't plan to mess with it for another 40K miles. If you settle for something with 175K miles you can probably add a transmission service/rebuild to your price.

SilverBullet75

06/12/2013, 09:11 PM

Excellent advice.
Thank you.
Passing on this one.
I've seen about 4 pop up within a 300 mile radius of Vegas within the last 3 months... Some over priced. Some great priced.

How hard do you think it would be to piece-meal it?
I think between You/Buffy and BigMeat(?) there is enough of a parts list to go off of.

vt_maverick

06/13/2013, 06:14 AM

Definitely would be harder, more time consuming, and almost certainly more expensive. BigMeat piece-mealed his I believe so it can definitely be done, but I know Buffy said that being able to see the AR-5 completely installed and wired up in the Trooper made it easier to know what needed to go where.

Plus a truck sitting in your driveway is better than a mountain of loose parts in your garage. :)

Leon R

06/13/2013, 06:31 AM

Plus a truck sitting in your driveway is better than a mountain of loose parts in your garage. :)

That is largely dependent on your marital status ;)

bartmanS4

06/13/2013, 10:03 AM

How hard do you think it would be to piece-meal it?

It wouldn't be that difficult, off the top of my head the parts list:

From '98-01 Trooper
AR5
ECU
Flywheel
Clutch master cylinder
Clutch hydro line - or new
Clutch slave - or new
Fuel line
Exhaust*
-optional
-Shifter boot
-Fuel level sender unit*

Rodeo
Clutch pedal assembly
-optional
-brake pedal assembly*

New
Clutch assembly

*not sure the exhaust really needs to be replaced but you may end up with o2 sensors codes popping up it not used. Mine needed replacing anyway so I used the Trooper one. However, if you plan to off-road a lot the crossover should be rerun. The Trooper exhaust crosses under the front prop shaft so it extends downs right after the front cross-member and will be the first thing to hit when dropping off ledges. Eric's (owns BigMeats 5 spd rig, I think we should change his username from Etfren to LittleMeat ;Do;) exhaust had this re-routed over the top of the prop shaft to eliminate this problem, although i would wager his passenger floor get pretty hot, maybe Kaylie can chime in. I will be doing this in the near future 'cause I definitely took some hits on the exhaust in Moab. Nobody can say I was treading lightly there but I'm learning. :mbrasd:
Here is a picture of Eric's exhaust.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/Moab_003.jpg

*Fuel level sending unit is calibrated in the ECU and I found running the Trooper ECU with the VX sending unit was mis-calibrated and I was empty with 1/4 tank still showing on the guage. Swapped the sending unit and all is well now.

*If the stock pedal is used it is too close to the clutch pedal and I would hit the brake occasionally when depressing the clutch. I just cut a centimeter off both sides of my stock brake pedal and added some aftermarket pedal covers.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/Pedals.JPG

vt_maverick

06/13/2013, 10:03 AM

That is largely dependent on your marital status ;)

Lol...

Buffy

06/13/2013, 10:30 AM

The ECU from the 98 or 99 Trooper is what you need. The trans can come from a 98 or later. I currently have a spare 5 speed swap sitting at my shop I am toying with selling. Was going to use it to build the black VX that went to Tom. I have an AR5 with 63K miles, the computer and flywheel that I am thinking about selling. Still hadn't decided if I would install in my silver VX. But should I sell it I would be asking 1000.00 for it all. I also have the manual gas lines to go with it. Very handy item to have for this install, trust me I know.

SilverBullet75

06/13/2013, 12:11 PM

PMing you now!

SilverBullet75

06/13/2013, 01:48 PM

I decided to keep looking for a Trooper.

Question...the Trooper exhaust, can it be from an Auto, or does it have to be manual?

Knigh7s

06/13/2013, 09:08 PM

I decided to keep looking for a Trooper.

Question...the Trooper exhaust, can it be from an Auto, or does it have to be manual?

I believe its supposed to be the manual version.

I've collected all the info I can find on components at my VXWiki (http://myvehicross.com/wiki/index.php?title=Drivetrain:mantranswap). I'm eventually going to piece this together.

Leon R

06/13/2013, 09:22 PM

Something to keep in mind. If your state is performing OBD2 checks, they could ID computer from different car/year and fail you. Mass started with identifying Europian code that was flashed into some car's ECU's and eventually they started picking out non-native ECU's. NH was late to the game, but they are starting picking them out. So before you truely commit to a 5sp ECU from a trooper, make sure your will not have this problem.

SilverBullet75

06/14/2013, 11:26 AM

Interesting point.
Vegas won't be an issue with it as a whole, since it's the same engine, but knowing our DMV, it'll probably need to be "re-certified".
Thanks!

Leon R

06/14/2013, 11:47 AM

Same engine is not enough, they are bagging us with same engine, but different year.

But every state is different. For instance, Mass stops doing OBD2 checks after 15 years, so 99's coming up to that deadline (but not quite there). So I have another 3 years of "playing by the rules". :(

vt_maverick

06/14/2013, 07:04 PM

I can help facilitate this for anyone interested...

http://blacksburg.craigslist.org/cto/3869703835.html

I'd see if he'll bite at $500.

housertl

06/17/2013, 01:24 PM

I can help facilitate this for anyone interested...

http://blacksburg.craigslist.org/cto/3869703835.html

I'd see if he'll bite at $500.

Maverick, I very well may want to jump on this. Let me talk to my wife tonight and I will get back to you.

JAMAS

06/17/2013, 01:40 PM

...Let me talk to my wife tonight and I will get back to you.

I can't tell you how many times I have started and ended a project (at the same time) with that exact quote :):)

vt_maverick

06/17/2013, 06:39 PM

Maverick, I very well may want to jump on this. Let me talk to my wife tonight and I will get back to you.

Offer him $500 and if he says no I'll call and offer him $300 and maybe he'll call you back. :)

eternal21

02/14/2014, 11:13 PM

Reviving this thread, as there are some questions I have now that I'm finishing up:

a) These wires run into the engine bay. Where do they go from there, i.e., where do they connect inside the engine bay?

Here is where I routed the new wire harness through the fire wall.

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/903039/fullsize/100_2095.jpg

bartmanS4

02/15/2014, 08:25 AM

Mike,

Those wires run back to the transmission mode switch connector M-25. They are for the clutch pedal switch. If I remember correctly their purpose is twofold: 1) the the starter interlock that doesn't allow the starter to engage unless the clutch pedal is fully depressed, and 2) the cruise control will function when the pedal is out and disengage as soon as the pedal is depressed. One of these uses a N.C. and the other uses a N.O. switch position. I wired my VX differently and did not run any wires through the firewall. In my case I left out the starter interlock because I don't care if I can turn it over without depressing the clutch. To do this you must short pins 1 & 4 at M25. However, this does allow the VX to be cranked over while in gear with the clutch engaged. I just don't find it that difficult to make sure I'm in neutral before cranking the engine just like all manuals in the not so old days. As for the cruise control clutch interlock I ran two wires from the clutch switch behind the dash over to the cruise control module behind the passenger kick plate. This was easier and cleaner in my opinion than running wires out the firewall to the transmission mode switch connector.

Send me your email in a PM and I can send you a word doc with useful notes that I created.
Cheers,
Scott
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/515/CruiseContClutchSW.JPG

eternal21

02/15/2014, 10:11 AM

Mike,
Send me your email in a PM and I can send you a word doc with useful notes that I created.
Cheers,
Scott

Thanks, Scott. I found your post in this thread about all of that and I had to determine which method I wanted to go: clutch pedal down or not when starting the truck. The alarm I'm installing is remote start, so to me, it bypasses the clutch being down anyway, so, I'm going your route.

Since everything else in the garage is a manual, like you, I just make sure I *ALWAYS* make MT transmissions are in neutral prior to starting. PM incoming, and THANK YOU.

Oh, and another thing: in one of your earlier posts you mentioned swapping out the fuel rails. Is this prudent, as I didn't come across a reason for doing so.

bartmanS4

02/15/2014, 10:21 AM

Oh, and another thing: in one of your earlier posts you mentioned swapping out the fuel rails. Is this prudent, as I didn't come across a reason for doing so.

Just to be clear, if I said fuel rails I misspoke. I was speaking of the 5 spd tranny fuel lines.

bartmanS4

02/15/2014, 10:25 AM

Thanks, Scott. I found your post in this thread about all of that and I had to determine which method I wanted to go: clutch pedal down or not when starting the truck. The alarm I'm installing is remote start, so to me, it bypasses the clutch being down anyway, so, I'm going your route.

Just be careful to never leave you VX in gear! Can you imagine remotely starting a VX that's in 4Lo with 1st gear engaged? Doh! ;oob; That would be spectacular!

eternal21

02/15/2014, 10:50 AM

Just be careful to never leave you VX in gear! Can you imagine remotely starting a VX that's in 4Lo with 1st gear engaged? Doh! ;oob; That would be spectacular!

Just to be clear, if I said fuel rails I misspoke. I was speaking of the 5 spd tranny fuel lines.

I've had MT vehicles for 20 yrs now, never had that happen ONCE. :) Thanks for jinxing me *lol*

And I went back and checked, you said "fuel lines" not fuel "rails", so my bad on that one. Yeah, found out that the fuel lines of an auto won't fit, and I had to hose clamp the new lines, just like you mentioned.

eternal21

02/25/2014, 09:28 PM

I believe its supposed to be the manual version.

I've collected all the info I can find on components at my VXWiki (http://myvehicross.com/wiki/index.php?title=Drivetrain:mantranswap). I'm eventually going to piece this together.

Your wiki says that it has to be an OEM clutch setup. I have an Exedy clutch setup in my 5MT and it works just fine. Just an FYI there are other feasible options available.

Knigh7s

02/26/2014, 07:10 PM

Good to know of other options. Would you have any more information (i.e. part#, etc.) on that Exedy clutch?

Your wiki says that it has to be an OEM clutch setup. I have an Exedy clutch setup in my 5MT and it works just fine. Just an FYI there are other feasible options available.

eternal21

02/27/2014, 10:25 AM

Good to know of other options. Would you have any more information (i.e. part#, etc.) on that Exedy clutch?

I would! :D

Since it came out of a Trooper, I'd assume it is this one:

http://www.carid.com/1998-isuzu-trooper-transmission-parts/item-7955070.html I see it on eBay for $500 and cheaper, so I would *def* search for a better price.

When I purchased the used Trooper, the orig. owner advised that the clutch job had been done w/in 4-5 months, so I didn't replace it. I did, however, replace the t/o bearing and pilot bearing, which come in the aforementioned kit.

I used a NSK Pilot Bearing (P/N W0133-1631634)
http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/sku/NSK/Pilot_Bearing/W0133-1631634.html

and I also replaced the throwout (release) bearing with a Sachs unit (P/N W0133-1608860).
http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/sku/Sachs/Release_Bearing/W0133-1608860.html

The above-referenced site has the least expensive price for the Sach's unit. Every other place I checked was north of $100. They got both parts to me w/in 2 days, as well.

Knigh7s

02/27/2014, 12:58 PM

Awesome! I'll add this info to the Wiki! Good to know we have more options than just (expensive) OEM parts.

I would! :D

Since it came out of a Trooper, I'd assume it is this one:

http://www.carid.com/1998-isuzu-trooper-transmission-parts/item-7955070.html I see it on eBay for $500 and cheaper, so I would *def* search for a better price.

When I purchased the used Trooper, the orig. owner advised that the clutch job had been done w/in 4-5 months, so I didn't replace it. I did, however, replace the t/o bearing and pilot bearing, which come in the aforementioned kit.

I used a NSK Pilot Bearing (P/N W0133-1631634)
http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/sku/NSK/Pilot_Bearing/W0133-1631634.html

and I also replaced the throwout (release) bearing with a Sachs unit (P/N W0133-1608860).
http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/sku/Sachs/Release_Bearing/W0133-1608860.html

The above-referenced site has the least expensive price for the Sach's unit. Every other place I checked was north of $100. They got both parts to me w/in 2 days, as well.

Also, Just a note to anyone that is interested in adding/updating info on the wiki, it is open to anyone. But to keep it clean, you will have to sign up for an account (like any other major wiki) to add/edit/update.

Asouljah

03/02/2015, 07:32 PM

just did a swap and my truck wont start. starter cranks no spark no fuel.. used an ecm from a 98 trooper salvaged

bartmanS4

03/02/2015, 08:44 PM

Not a lot to go on here. I'd check connectors and fuses. Is the fuel pump running? can you try your original ECM for troubleshooting?

Buffy

03/03/2015, 05:26 AM

Did you plug the security computer back in? I know it is a simple answer but there are two small black boxes you remove to get to the pedals. One controls the gear selector lights in the dash and the other is the security system. If you forgot to install that one your ignition is dead. Now there are two wires that you can jump that bypasses the whole box and it can be discarded but you won't be able to use a key fob.

Asouljah

03/09/2015, 12:02 PM

yes they are plugged in, no fuel pump no injector pulse no spark neither pcm works.. i thought it was alarm programmed remote to it no change.. the mil or check engine light doesn't come on.

Asouljah

03/09/2015, 12:15 PM

no codes get rpms so i dont think its the crank sensor sever of the b+ feeds at the harness to the pcm have no pwer fuses check out good
snow is melting and i didnt drive my baby. last year didnt drive it because of auto tranny replaced it twice. so thought the 5 speed would give me some satisfaction. lol

eternal21

03/09/2015, 02:36 PM

K, trying to make sense of your last post, but having a hard time. Can you please adjust it a bit?

Asouljah

03/09/2015, 03:31 PM

no diagnostic codes. scanner shows rpms when cranking so dont think its the crank sensor. several of the outputs and the inputs at the pcm dont have the battery voltage as they should. the fuses check out good.

eternal21

03/09/2015, 03:51 PM

several of the outputs and the inputs at the pcm dont have the battery voltage as they should.

K. Did you already swap the Trooper ECM w/the OEM VX ECM to see if that portion of the problem corrects itself?

Asouljah

03/10/2015, 12:37 AM

yes, same situation both computers. how do i bypass the alarm? i suspected that i may have reset the alarm because in the process of isolating the correct wires for the reverse gears and engaging the starter i ran power to the connector at the gear selector. that was the last time i heard the fuel pump come on. subsequently i had to replace a fuse at the drivers door window. what two wires would enable me to bypass that black box and is it reverseable?

LittleBeast

05/07/2015, 09:57 AM

bartmanS4

05/07/2015, 10:15 AM

I will be doing this swap this summer, if I can get all the parts together in the next few weeks. Any help would be much appreciated. The only part I am unclear on is the wiring. Anyone have a great source, or search engine for finding a '99 manual Trooper?

'98-01 Trooper S models are your source vehicles. If you get a '00-01 you'll need to source the ECU separately since the later models have a different computer setup. Easy to tell though as the correct ECUs are located where our are under the dash, the wrong ones are in the engine bay.
Wiring is actually pretty easy. All you need to do is jumper out the thick wires at the mode switch connector M-25 1 to 4 to bypass the need to have the brake on when starting. Hook up the reverse light switch on the AR5. Connect pins 1 and 12 of the cruise control module through the normally closed clutch switch.

LittleBeast

05/07/2015, 07:35 PM

eternal21

05/07/2015, 11:40 PM

Is the "S" part crucial? I have found some '99 Manual Troopers in TX, but I guess I need to call them to see if they would sell the entire vehicle (if it hasn't been picked apart yet). Is there a specific Junk Yard search that I should be using? Or just call and ask questions?

I usually visit car-parts.com It has served me well over the years. The model variation is b/c some of them didn't come w/TOD, so the ECU/ECM will be different. Make sure to ask about TOD.

bartmanS4

05/08/2015, 09:38 AM

Is the "S" part crucial? I have found some '99 Manual Troopers in TX, but I guess I need to call them to see if they would sell the entire vehicle (if it hasn't been picked apart yet). Is there a specific Junk Yard search that I should be using? Or just call and ask questions?

No, the S model is just the only models that came with the manual option I think. If you found a manual you're good to go.

eternal21

05/08/2015, 11:44 AM

No, the S model is just the only models that came with the manual option I think. If you found a manual you're good to go.

Dunno, man....this is an S and it's an auto www.ebay.com/itm/Isuzu-Trooper-S-/131493001528

bartmanS4

05/08/2015, 12:47 PM

Dunno, man....this is an S and it's an auto www.ebay.com/itm/Isuzu-Trooper-S-/131493001528

I'm not saying all S models are 5 speeds. I'm saying I believe all 5 speeds are S models.

eternal21

05/08/2015, 01:39 PM

I'm not saying all S models are 5 speeds. I'm saying I believe all 5 speeds are S models.

"I see," said the blind man to his deaf son.

Buffy

05/11/2015, 06:45 AM

I would recommend an additional item for anyone doing this swap and that is the fuel line that runs from the back of the engine to the rear of the trans. This is a hard line that routes around the trans and is different for the two models. You can bend the lines by hand but the correct lines make for a cleaner install. Just my two cents.....

LittleBeast

05/11/2015, 06:52 AM

Gotcha. So that line will meet up at the fuel filter connection on the passenger side? How hard is that to remove with the tranny out? Is the connection on the engine side accessible through the hood easily?

Buffy

05/12/2015, 01:54 PM

The line will connect at the back of the engine with rubber lines then turns to hard lines that run along the trans then back to rubber lines behind the transfercase. It connects at the same locations as the auto lines. Pain to take out when engine and trans is int the car but is a breeze to replace with the trans out of the car.

eternal21

05/13/2015, 08:22 AM

The lines are connected to each other by brackets, which are welded to the lines. A couple of those brackets are used to bolt the lines to the tranny housing. They are basically shaped to run along the tranny, and since the tranny shapes are different, the line shapes are, too. I tried to use the auto lines to save time, but there wasn't any feasible way I could see them fitting, so I went ahead and swapped them.

You'll also need the 5MT Y-pipe that connects both sides of the header.

LittleBeast

05/14/2015, 08:39 AM

eternal21

05/14/2015, 09:13 AM

I am still searching the vast Internet for any signs of a donor vehicle, this is a harder search then I thought it would be. Most of the Troopers I am finding are autos. Wonder what the percentage was of each?

Last weekend my buddy and I went to look at a parts Trooper for his Trooper, and the guy asked if we were the guys from Houston that had called to see if it was a manual *lol*. I told him nope, but I know who it was *lol*.

It was by the grace of God that I found what I needed. I had been looking off and on for months, and the exact Sunday I decided that I was going to go all in, one appeared on Craigslist *that morning* in San Antonio that had been wrecked the night before. I had it in my garage the next day. So while I can't comment on the ratio, I know they're scarce.