???'s about fluid replacement

[Dallas4u]

Ok, I spent around 7 hours on Sunday trying to replace engine oil, coolant, tranny and TOD fluid, and front and rear diffy oil. I ran into things that took TOO much time to do, and didn't get to the TOD or differentials.

First question... tranny takes 9.1 qts of ATF fluid, yet I drained and refilled with only 4 qts. I know I did something wrong, or just didn't do something, as I have seen the 4 qt number mentioned before when it comes to the tranny. I drained the pan, replaced the filter, and pumped fluid back into the overflow hole. At 3 qts it started coming back out, so I put the bolt back in and started the VX. I turned it off, unscrewed the bolt, and started pumping more in. At almost 1 more qt (almost 4 qts total) fluid started coming back out. How do you flush the entire 9.1 qts out of the transmission, and how do you get it all back in there???

Second question... drain and fill spots on the differentials. I think someone said the lowest most bolt on the front diffy is the drain hole. Is there a fill hole as well? Same with the rear diffy... drain and fill holes?

I'm going to try and do the TOD bleed and refill, along with the differentials today or tomorrow after work. I do NOT look forward to going back under there after spending 7 hours there yesterday and only getting as far as I did, but I can't just NOT do what I set out to do. Thanks for any and all help that I have been given and will receive!!!

[AnalogVX]

There is only a 4quart change in the trans if you only drain/drop the pan. A fluid exchange at a lube place or dealer will get all 9 quarts. I got about 4 back in there too. The bottom most bolt on the front diff is the drain. IIRC it may be clogged with gasket sealant. If nothing comes out at first, stick a long screw driver in the hole to get it going. The rear dif drain hole is on the side and both front and rear have fill holes. Speaking from experience...make sure you can get the fill plugs loose first before you drain the oil.;)

*edit* it took me all day too. I'm sure it will go faster my next time around.

[Joe_Black]

There is actually a drain pug on the back of the front diff too. As AnalogVX mentions the rear is pretty easy to spot. The TOD is very easy to do as well. I bailed on my original attempt with the new tranny as I also have to do Kathy's '01 Trooper which has the same drain/fill set-up. I suspect there is a dealer piece of equipment to change the tranny fluid. There's another pan forward of the main pan (under converter I think) which will need to dropped that holds a bit more than a quart then you've got whatever's in the cooler. Sorry I don't know more as I'm waiting on gaskets etc. before finishing up.

[Dallas4u]

Originally posted by AnalogVX
A fluid exchange at a lube place or dealer will get all 9 quarts.

I'm assuming then that they do some sort of flush? How can we do this on our own to get the remaining 5 qts out?


Originally posted by AnalogVX
...and both front and rear have fill holes. Speaking from experience...make sure you can get the fill plugs loose first before you drain the oil.;)

Are the fill holes obvious?

Thanks for the help!

[Dallas4u]

Originally posted by Joe_Black
There's another pan forward of the main pan (under converter I think) which will need to dropped that holds a bit more than a quart then you've got whatever's in the cooler.

There IS another pan, right in front of the main pan. It is smaller, and rectangular. I thought about just taking it off to see what exactly it was, but I had so much trouble with the main pan, I was just ready to go inside.

I'll work on the TOD and differentials either today or tomorrow. I don't plan on going back out there to drain the sceond pan or anything as I'm chalking it up to being done with the tranny for now.

[Joe_Black]

I'll post pics of the diff drain plug this evening as I'm about to put the nose back on the VX. I'll also get a pic of the smaller pan as well.

[AnalogVX]

Originally posted by Dallas4u


Are the fill holes obvious?

Thanks for the help!

They are the plugs with the square hole. A 3/8" ratchet will fit nicely.

[AnalogVX]

Originally posted by Dallas4u
I'm assuming then that they do some sort of flush? How can we do this on our own to get the remaining 5 qts out?


Correct, they flush it with a machine hooked up to the fluid return lines from the radiator. There have been ways discussed on internet to do this yourself with a bucket and some long hoses, but I would rather leave it up to the professionals at that time.:)

[Joe_Black]

Okay, here's some (hopefully!) helpful pics of the tranny and diff fill and drain points.

First, the front diff drain found on the rear of the front diff...
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3058/234front_diff_drain.jpg

...and the front diff fill on the front of the front diff:
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3058/234front_diff_fill.jpg

The rear diff drain and fill points as viewed from right-rear corner:
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3058/234rear_diff_fill_n_drain.jpg

The troublesome tranny fill and drain points as viewed from right side:

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3058/234tranny_fill_n_drain.jpg

And last but not least the pan just forward of the main tranny pan, possibly a sump or for the converter (those in the know chime in):
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3058/234converter_or_sump.jpg

Again, hope this helps out!

[Dallas4u]

Mr. Black, you are a gem.. a GEM I say!

The pics are perfect, and the "other" pan in front of the tranny pan is exactly what I was thinking of.

I am going to print these pics out and use them to go buy... perfect!!!

[Jonnie]

Views I am getting very familar with. I cannot get the filler plugs loose; glad I did not drain the diffs first!

Jonathan

[Joe_Black]

Jonnie, I use a 1/2 inch 6-point impact socket with a 20 inch breaker-bar which makes short work of those. Good tools to have in your box!

[johnnyapollo]

So if you remove that rear plug black stuff oozes out? Sounds like it needs Imodium!~

[Dallas4u]

This may show how much I still need to work out, but I was having a problem with the bolts holding the crossmember skid plate on! I was using a medium socket wrench, then switched to the largest socket wrench I have, and it made a HUGE difference.

[Jonnie]

Originally posted by Joe_Black
Jonnie, I use a 1/2 inch 6-point impact socket with a 20 inch breaker-bar which makes short work of those. Good tools to have in your box!

I've been there 3 times. I used the 1/2 breaker bar with a regular cut socket (15/16, some slop). The Mobil 1 continues to roll around in the back seats.

I was thinking about using an impact socket, but have to go get a set.

Jonathan:rolleyes:

[AnalogVX]

What are the chances of having different front diffs?
I do not have the drain plug indicated. I had to drain it from the lower most cover bolt. hmm...:confused:

*edit* I am wondering now if the pic is a little decieving...is that one of the smallish bolts around the perimeter of the cover? I also had to use a 3/8" square ratchet on the fill plug, although I could see where that may vary...

[Clyde]

Originally posted by AnalogVX
Correct, they flush it with a machine hooked up to the fluid return lines from the radiator. There have been ways discussed on internet to do this yourself with a bucket and some long hoses, but I would rather leave it up to the professionals at that time.:)

Is it possible to use a MityVac evacuator/dispenser to drain and refill the transmission somehow?



Originally posted by Joe_Black
Jonnie, I use a 1/2 inch 6-point impact socket with a 20 inch breaker-bar which makes short work of those. Good tools to have in your box!

I know this tool very well. Anytime I work on a vehicle I always have that one beside me. I haven't changed my fluids yet, but plan on doing that very soon and was planning on grabbing it to loosen up those stubborn bolts.

[Clyde]

I almost forgot....I have another question. Would it be alright to use Mobil 1 synthetic gear oil (75W-90) is both front and rear axles with no problems?

[Joe_Black]

John - You're a sick and twisted man! Probably why we get along!

Adam - You've got so much modded on your VX I'm surprised you don't just keep a wrench in your hand! You need to grok your ride and quit farmin' that stuff out! LOL!

Jonnie - The nice thing about impact sockets are that they're generally cheap and are also six-point which fits much better. If you're not in a hurry you can get Ingersoll-Rand sets from Northern Tool. (http://www.northerntool.com) Otherwise try Home Despot or Lowes. Hurry up and get that Mobil-1 in there!

RichD - The '99 may have a different diff, not unheard of I'm sure. The drain on mine IIRC was 14mm and all by its lonesome. All my 2nd Gen Troopers had the type you're talking about though with the drain on the front at about the 5 o'clock spot.

Clyde - You're readin' my mind on the MityVac! I think their big unit is only about $80, which ain't bad considering what you can do with it. As for Mobil-1 in the diffs, I've been using it in the VX and in my three previous Troopers since it became available. All it does it make 'em last slightly longer than forever and give you a bit extra mileage. Folk here are probably beginning to think I work for Mobil as I'm crazy about the stuff and use it everywhere they've got a product made for. LOL!


Okay, time to start packing for Uwharrie!

:clap: :thumbup: :clap: :thumbup: :clap:

[Dallas4u]

Originally posted by Joe_Black
Adam - You've got so much modded on your VX I'm surprised you don't just keep a wrench in your hand! You need to grok your ride and quit farmin' that stuff out! LOL!

Hey! I'm tryin to understand what I can about what I got!! After the pain it took to do what I did last weekend, I'm thinking of just paying someone to do it next time!!!

I have a somewhat old socket wrench kit with three different sized wrenches, and I bought a breaker bar last year. If I only had a hydraulic lift, I'd be set!!! Oh yea, gotta get an air compressor and impact wrench... Christmas?

[Joe_Black]

When I had the restoration shop my favorite day of the week was the day the Snap-on truck came by. Fortunately my Snap-on guy, Henry, was a foreign car geek and would often have the unusual sizes or specialty tools I often needed. He had this awesome air compressor at the back of his truck I used to drool over all the time but it was simply out of the budget. 7HP, 60 gallon, two-stage, gloss red, chrome air cleaner... Mmmmm. LOL! The discount-club 5HP Sanborn unit is still pumping the shop lines 12 years later. It ain't pretty, but it works!

A buddy of mine got a sweet hydraulic lift from an area garage that was closing for about $1K. New they can be had around $2.5K for "home" use. Maybe we'll take up a collection for you! LOL! That's it! The VehiCROSS Secret Santa! ROTFL! Now all we need is some philanthropist members!

[Dallas4u]

Funny, my next door neighbor while living back in Texas as a MAC Tools rep. He had the truck full of tools and tool boxes. If I was working on something and didn't have the right tool, I could always go over there and borrow one.

Now, I'm stuck having to buy everything I took for granted. I still have to buy the mandatory sliding compound miter saw and table saw. I really need a decent air compressor. My new neighbor was talking about going in on a nice one with me... maybe soon.

[Clyde]

Joe_Black...I bought a MityVac the other day. It should be here either today or tomorrow. :dance: :clap:

[AREA 51]

You cannot use the mightyvac to change out all the fluid because of the fluid in the torque convertor. Does anyone know if the stock convertor has a drain plug?

[Clyde]

I don't think you would want to take the fluid out of the torque converter anyway. If you drained the torque converter and didn't remove the whole tranny how does it get back in there. I watch Horsepower TV on Saturdays on Spike (formerly TNN) and they say you should never have that thing dry when you start it. I don't even know if you could drain it. Besides how would you really know for sure it's been refilled?

[Sheik-YurBooty]

Hey Dallas, Can I borrow those saws that you have , they would help in tunning my VX.

[Dallas4u]

Ha haaa... very funny.

Actually, if you own a house (on my second), these items are more than a necessary!

[Joe_Black]

Yeah, those table saws are nice for trimming intake runners. Especially with a dado! LOL!

Just another reason why there'll be next to no wood at all in our new home. Trim items only! Concrete countertops, acid-etched and stained floors, steel studs, exposed Lindap ductwork, steel cabinets and built in storage... all that good stuff to give the plasma cutter a good work out. Not to mention a great excuse to get a new Miller MIG unit! Just got back earlier from the builder today, very cool stuff. I'll be sure to host a meet at our "ranch" once it's done. Check out their website (http://www.aidomes.com) if you'd like to see a neat structure.

[Heraclid]

Kinda looks like living in that big geodesic ball at EPCOT. :-) Funky and definitely different... quite fitting for a VX owner!

[Dallas4u]

Well, I'm trying to rejuvenate Portland, one house at a time. Ours was built in 1927, so there is plenty of wood in the base boards, crown molding, and picture molding... not to mention the wood on the exterior (underneath the vinyl siding)!!

[WyrreJ]

If you are going to drive a moon buggy, you might as well as live in a moon colony dome.

[Joe_Black]

ROTFL!!! Now if I can just lay my hands on an Eagle I'll be in good shape!:laughg: