Taking a few cranks to get started

[MSHardeman]

Until relatively recently Vicki would fire up as soon as I turned the key. The started would barely turn over once and the engine would fire without a problem. Lately, the engine will turn over a few times before it will catch and start. When it starts, it starts and runs strong. No slowly coming up to speed or sputtering.

I've noticed that if I turn the key on and let it sit for a second or two the engine will start up on the first crank like it used to. It's almost like the fuel system has to pressure up because if I turn it off and try to start it again, it starts right up again. If I let is sit for a while (like over night, or while I'm at work) it will take a few cranks for the engine to catch, or if I do the key on/wait thing it'll start right up as ususal.

I really haven't done any diagnostics on it, but I wanted to see if this has happened to anyone else. I changed both the fuel filter and fuel pressure regulator about 50k miles ago. Is it time to do a filter/regulator replacement again?

[JoFotoz]

As the years go by...
.... its taking me a few 'cranks' to get started too......:eek:


There...that was sooo helpfullll!

jo

(sounds like fuel pressure...:_thinking...does it run OK after starting? )

[MSHardeman]

DITTO.:laughing:

Yep, once she starts she runs just fine. No sputtering or stalling. Same as it ever was....

[Ldub]

50k is a long time between fuel filters my friend...:yesgray:

I change mine every other fall, & am astounded by the dark colored gorp that back flows out of the old filter...:eekgray:

Usually, the symptom for a faulty FPR, is that it fires right up when cold, but cranks & cranks to get the fire lit after it's warmed up to operating temp...:_wrench:

http://biofuelsdigest.com/bdigest/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/same-as-it-ever-was.gif

[MSHardeman]

Dub, since they are so inexpensive I was planning on replacing the filter and pressure regulator anyway, but I didn't think that you (the royal you) needed to change fuel filters that often on newer cars. Guess I'll give Merlin a call and get everything out here for the swap. Although, since my symptoms are the opposite of your description for a faulty FPR, maybe I don't need a new one.

Thanks for the input, as always, y'all.

[Ldub]

Dub, since they are so inexpensive I was planning on replacing the filter and pressure regulator anyway, but I didn't think that you (the royal you) needed to change fuel filters that often on newer cars.

I'll say that the age of the car has zero to do with it, it's the cleanliness of the petrol you're buying, that has everything to do with it...:yesgray:

Even the best of petrol suppliers, don't filter their fuel to nearly what they should, otherwise, we wouldn't need fuel filters...unless you spit sunflower seeds or tobaccy while you're fueling...or if you're re-fueling in a dust storm...:smilewink

And FWIW, fuel filters are all pretty close in quality, you can get one at Autozone, or any other car parts store, prolly cheaper than from Merlin.

[RickOKC]

Plenty of cranks around here to give advice.... ;Dy;

My VX started getting a little cranky last year and a couple days later I realized it was all because the battery was was on it's last leg.

[pbkid]

mark, check your battery, fpr, fuel filter, air filter. probably one of the above.

[VXorado]

Also, check the schrader valve on the fuel rail for pressure before startup. If there isn't any pressure, the fuel pump may taking a couple seconds to fill the fuel line while cranking. I had a similar issue last winter.

[Riff Raff]

I've noticed that if I turn the key on and let it sit for a second or two the engine will start up on the first crank like it used to. ............., or if I do the key on/wait thing it'll start right up as ususal.


FWIW, I always use this exact method to start my VX everytime (cold-start or hot-start after re-fueling). Mainly, to check-out my idiot lights (ABS Light function-test and all other idiot lights that will first illuminate and then later disappear during pre-iginition/ACC turn-key). Once all idiot lights have disappeared (gently faded away) as normal; then I fire-up the VX in the start position, and it has always started up immediately in the "first flash of the wrist" (no continuous cranking). Hope this helps.

:bgwb:

[Y33TREKker]

FWIW, I always use this exact method to start my VX everytime (cold-start or hot-start after re-fueling). Mainly, to check-out my idiot lights (ABS Light function-test and all other idiot lights that will first illuminate and then later disappear during pre-iginition/ACC turn-key). Once all idiot lights have disappeared (gently faded away) as normal; then I fire-up the VX in the start position, and it has always started up immediately in the "first flash of the wrist" (no continuous cranking). Hope this helps.

:bgwb:
This is a good practice to follow anyway. The sooner the engine actually starts with adequate fuel pressure, the sooner the engine oil gets circulated at adequate pressure to all the bearings because the oil pump is turning at higher continuous speeds. Even good drain-back valves on oil filters can only do so much, so short of using an electric oil pump system that gets oil pressure built up before the engine is even started, getting the engine running asap after cranking begins helps the most.

Could a dirty MAF be causing air-fuel ratios to be thrown off during cranking and creating the problem?

[MSHardeman]

Wanted to give a quick update on this issue: I replaced the FPR this weekend and that seems to have solved the problem. The VX, now, starts right up without having to turn the key and wait for the fuel system to pressure up.

One note if you are having this issue; before you go replacing the FPR take a look at the tube connected to the FPR. Mine was cracked on the end and was not making a good seal. I trimmed the tube back past the cracks and now it makes a good solid seal with the FPR. I have a feeling that my FPR was probably fine (although I did find debris in the screen) and all I needed to do was trim that tube back to take care of the problem.

[VX crazy]

when Jay replaced mine a couple years ago, there was a little hole in the screen! I just threw that one away, had kept it in the back of my truck for some reason lol.

[nfpgasmask]

I'm gonna do my FPR soon again too and replace the hose to it. I have some stuff to order from Merlin for my 4:77 swap so I will get a FPR at the same time.

Thanks,

Bart

[MSHardeman]

Bart, just a heads up; I'm like you and I want everything that I put into the VX to be standard Isuzu issue, but Merlin want's something like $150 for the FPR whereas the one I got from NAPA fit perfectly, works just fine, and only cost $60.

Just sayin'.....

[nfpgasmask]

Bart, just a heads up; I'm like you and I want everything that I put into the VX to be standard Isuzu issue, but Merlin want's something like $150 for the FPR whereas the one I got from NAPA fit perfectly, works just fine, and only cost $60.

Just sayin'.....

Hmmm, yeah. Perhaps I will go that route. What brand is it? Napa Gold or something else?

Bart

[89Vette]

Only after I swapped out injectors to have them professionally cleaned.

Its' pretty clear to me that fuel pressure has to drop as the car sits overnight. When you do a key on, that provide the fuel pump time to repressurize -- which cures the delay. Or, if it doesn't sit very long, it doesn't have time to lose pressure.

I actually don't understand how pulling the fuel rail loose cause my particular issue. I tried a second set of injectors with no change. Plus, running fuel pressure is where it's supposed to be -- which implies I did no harm to the FPR. I did note the same poor condition of the vacuum line that drives the regulator. So, I installed new vacuum line from stuff sitting in my garage. (Did this before measuring FP).

New viviton injectors seals were installed both times. The second time I took extra time to clean bungs in the manifold and rail.

I don't smell gasoline in the morning -- and you'd think this would happen if the fuel was losing pressure externally. These days, I think most fuel systems hold fuel rail/lin pressure thru a check valve built into the fuel pump. Changing injectors shouldn't affect that.