Looking for an opinion ...

[dyanni]

Here's the deal ...

I bid on a set of 20" rims a few months ago - and stopped at 1000.00. Someone else won those rims at like 2200 bucks. They re-appeared on Ebay a week or so ago, so I bid somewhere in the neighborbood of 1275 - and I WON! at 1226.00 Apparently the previous buyer/bidder skipped out.

<<--- Insert problem here

I was in Dallas the day the auction ended and could not get on the internet until two days later - when I did, I saw messages from the seller freaking out thinking I was skipping out too - I sent email telling him I definitely wanted the rims and would paypal him when I returned to Atlanta within 2/3 days. He sent a message asking me to call him.

<<-- Insert bigger problem here

When I called, he said that since I didn't respond the same DAY the auction ended, he freaked and called the next bidder inline and told him he really wanted 1500 for the rims/tires, but would let them go for 1400 if he was interested. He was. BUT since I had told the dude I still wanted the rims - he said he wanted to give me first crack at the 1400.00 price - saying it was the ethical thing to do.

I told him, I felt I won the auction at 1226 - a really - REALLY good deal. That deal was closed, I did not skip out and was prepared to pay that day. He said he would not accept less than 1400, despite the winning bid on Ebay. ( this was a no reserve auction ) He did not want me to post negative feedback for him, because he would have to post negative feedback for me. Now I'm confused. When Ebay notified me I was the winner, it said I had 3 business days to contact the seller ... What did "I" do wrong ? Am I wrong ?

<<-- Insert opinion here

[VX crazy]

:confused: Something wrong with that guy!! You need to stand by the terms of ebay!! You had 3 days to contact him, not 1 day to pay him! Tell him if he does not abide by the winning bid you will leave negative feedback and turn in complain to ebay. Even if he left you negative feedback you can tell your side and see that he is the one being unethical!!:rollb:

[BumbleV-X]

He was in the wrong offering the next in line the tires at an inflated price. Your bid was legal and binding. If, you read the mumbo jumbo in fine print saying to contact within 3 days point that out to him. If he tries to back out of your winning bid contact eBay immediatly. He can be knocked off of eBay with that kind of ethics. Did you notice how many sales he's had in the past? What kind of feedback he has?
I would personally contact eBay. They can help you with the problem.

Good luck,
Deby

[Leah]

Ebay has very strict rules about abiding by its very strict rules. The seller is breaking a legal and binding contract by asking you for more money. If he continues to do so, you have the right to sue him. Email or call ebay and inform them of the situation. Either they will take care of it or they will tell you what steps to take. The seller is legally bound by law, not just ebay law, to sell you those rims for the auction-win price, just as you are bound by law to buy them. An auction is a legal contract.

You are in the right. You did have three days to contact seller, and even longer to submit payment depending on terms of sale. Take action immediately to ensure your rights and standing as auction winner.

Please keep us informed.

[VehiCrazy]

;Db;
I agree with Leah fully. I have over 100 ebay auctions under my belt as both buyer and seller. That guy is breaking the rules. I hope things work out for you.

[johnnyapollo]

Hey Donny,

The only out that the seller has is if he listed the item in error. eBay's terms and aggrements list an error in the listing as an out on the obligation to sell you those rims. In this case, I don't believe he can use that as an out.

Since he contacted you and gave you that mumbo-jumbo, he's obviously trying to get more money out of you on the rims. He's also probably lying... if the second bidder wanted them for $1400, he would have bid that high. Since he didn't, it doesn't stand to reason that he would want to pay that now.

You could sue the guy for breach, but the reality is that you probably won't. I wouldn't budge on the price, and I would bring pressure on him through eBay to sell them to you at the winning price. You fullfilled your obligation as far as eBay is concerned. If the guy doesn't sell you those rims, the best you can do is have him thrown off eBay. But eBay will only do that under extreme circumstances.

Ultimately, what will probably happen is that you'll both back down and the rims will be relisted. You can leave him a negative, but he'll just end up giving you a negative in retaliation. Isn't life and eBay grand?

Now, you could go to eBay, with the emails the guy sent you and accuse him of fraud. eBay is pretty tense about those type of claims. I've seen a lot of cases like this (I work for an auction management company with very close ties to eBay), in the very least, you'll get this bozo kicked off eBay. On the other hand, you may or may not get the rims.

Personally, I would threaten the guy with a fraud charge at eBay and see what he does. If he's not bothered with the threat of being kicked off, go to eBay and make his life miserable. To me, it's not worth putting up with this type of BS.

My $.02 -- John

[dyanni]

He said he has had no negative feedback on Ebay so far. I went ahead on faith and sent him my PayPal payment for the rims this morning to keep my claim alive. He has not responded. Maybe he is just panic'd - and maybe he should have asked for a reserve, but did not - and allowed the auction to contine to go until the end.

Before he started doing the Texas-Two-Step ( no offense to Texas ) He sent this thru Ebay to me ( this is an excerpt )


The seller entered the following message: hey there I really don't know why these rims went so cheap this time but I was would Ideally like 1500 at least out of them and than or course S&h but I make the insurance optional so it will just be 250 if you don't want issurance! congrats you got these for a steal....damn!


Then - he says he contacted the other bidders when I didn't respond immediately.

We will see where this goes, and I will post an update here. If you spent anytime on Ebay recently - you know which rims/tires I am talking about.

Thanks for the responses - I wanted a sanity check here.

[Cyrk]

Good luck, Dyanni those rims are HOT!

Are they the 20 Delta's off the yeller VX?

I would love to have them, wanna trade for my 18 Chrome Borbet CW3 for them if it works out??

Ha hope it all works out.

-Dave

[dyanni]

Yep - they are the 20" Detata Essex with Goodyear GT2 rubber from the Yellow VX you remember. If I don't hear from him by tomorrow - then I know what I'll need to do ... Thanks for the responses yall!

http://images.auctionworks.com/hi/5/5041/detata_dt_114.jpg

[dyanni]

Things are looking grim fellow VX'rs ...

after a what feels like a zillion exchanges - here is where we stand ... ( I santized the language )




This is my response back to the sellers message below:

You did not re-list because of me. You re-listed because someone else skipped out on the first deal. That was NOT me. I won this auction - and contacted you with the time alloted by Ebay - any expenses you incurred because of your fear that I had skipped too - are your responsibility. You indicated on the auction that you accepted pay-pal, so the fee is yours to pay, not the buyers - unless agreed to up front. If you were prepared to honour the terms of the agreement brokered by Ebay we would have had this deal closed Sunday morning when I pay-pal'd your account. You have consistently refused to do the right thing - now I no longer trust you - and that is why I have requested my money back. If you discuss this with your lawyer friend, you will learn you have no right to keep my money at this point.

Please refund the money paid ASAP to my paypal account dyanni@*******


-----Original Message-----
From: ******
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 11:52 PM
To: 'Donny *****'
Subject: RE: Shipping


God you are just a greedy b*tch your going to cut your nose of over a $174 and your still getting a kick a** deal……are you willing to jeopardize all of that for this I will make it difficult until I get in touch with this other guy to get the money from him………..I didn’t want it to go this fair I was trying to be fair about it you just want to steal it from me and I can’t let it happen F**K man you are just a little b*tch if you want to do it the hard way than that’s fine I will do it the hard way…..you will wait to get your refund……….til I get ahold of the other guy……..or till I get a hold of one of the other many interested buyers……………this is your last chance pay the 174 and you’ll get them by Friday at the latest………..lets just get this behind us so I can move on………..like I said if need be I will leave negative feedback too…..LAST CHANCE!!!!!


p.s. if you have any ???s just call we were a lot more productive over the phone maybe there might be a some sort of a compromise (***) ***-****.



If you think about all the money I lost cause I had to relist it since you did respond that cost me 34 and I lost another 60 going through pay pal I don’t want it to go this fair to start nit picking so let RESOLVE IT TELL YOU WHAT THIS IS MY LAST OFFER GIVE ME THE $94 WHICH WILL COVER MY RELIST FEE (for you not getting intouch w/ me soon enough) and the 60 I lost through pay pal………and I’ll send them………I just want to get you out of my f**king hair……



I went through SquareTrade on Ebay to mediate - but looks like this will have to go to Ebay afterall. :( Not a happy camper.

[VX crazy]

I would not buy anything from that sicko!! To speak like that to you, I would not get the wheels from him even if he came back and said you can have them for the winning price! What a jerk, and to think he could have been one of us? Poor yellow vx, hope he did not treat her like that!:mad:

[Dallas4u]

Dyanni,

First of all, this dude is either a young punk-*****, or just an illiterate man-child. He (it?) obviously didn't read or decided not to abied by the "legal" "binding" rules of Ebay, a respected online auction house. Do as MUCH through Ebay as possible, and even consider contacting a lawyer just to have a letter drawn up showing how he has wronged you.

Seriously, that's a lot of money (to me anyway). Don't let him "keep it" until the other $1400 comes in. Besides, you do NOT want those wheels from him!

[Cyrk]

Man what a dick that guys is...
F'm Dyanni.

Good luck,
Dave

[dyanni]

Ok - I made a mistake. NEVER buy anything overly expensive on Ebay. I wonder how he treated the person that got his VX off Ebay ...

I am going to send the collection of email exchanges to both Ebay and Paypal - at least as a complaint. He dug his own hole.

Just got his final message regarding the trade - thought I would share it with you for a chuckle ...




F*** you jacka** yes I did relist it as a second chance auction and that is when I got all the calls back now you just lost out I’m not going to refund your money or deliver your sh*t what do you think of that I don’t get even I get a head…………………





Here's to innocence lost.

[Cyrk]

What a jerk... Sorry.

Funny bought my Borbets of ebay about 1 1/2 ago never had one problem. knock on wood.

Hope you get your money back.

-Dave

[johnnyapollo]

There's an easy fix. Go to your credit card company (you did use a cc on PayPa didn't you... you should always!) and do a charge back for lack of merchandise. Forget about PayPal... they will jerk you around until it's too late for you to get your money back (you have 60 days). Do this right now, as this guy is a jerk. Had to do the same thing myself once.

-- John

[hitnrun74]

Check with paypal about a chargeback. I did pretty good with the same kind of problem awhile back. Got my money back and reported the individual to the attorney general from his area. Good Luck!

[Dallas4u]

I think it's interesting how he doesn't get even, he gets head.

Well, he may also get a little in the slamma!!!

[Leah]

My first response is outrage, then comes frustration, then, disappointment in individuals among the human race, (of which I am not. Did I ever mention that I'm an alien? It's a choice. hahahaha)

I think you were thinking very clearly to keep all of this guy's emails because they are the best weapon you have. Funny how he's shooting himself in the foot and can't even see that he's the one holding the gun. I'm sure ebay will be just as outraged by the misuse of their site as we are. I also think that in leaving your negative feedback for this "morally challenged" individual, you should make it clear that the low rating you are giving is in relation to a legal issue and not just one of personal differences. That would scare me off from buying from anyone.

I must commend you on your quick action and for sending the letters, both sides, to ebay so they can see for themselves what has happened. I'm sure they won't let us down, but will step in and straighten things out. They will see that you acted in good faith by sending in the money in the allotted time and that the seller simply got greedy and changed his mind.

(This is just a little aside. I'm a bit of a people watcher. I like to figure out why humans do and say things in certain ways and at certain times. I think that when someone accuses us of certain personality flaws, generally, the accuser is the one who suffers from them. I could be way off here, but did you notice that he accused you of being greedy about $174, yet, by the same token, he refuses to sell you the wheels in a legally binding contract without that $174? <shrug> Things that make you go "Hmm".)

You WILL get your money back. Believe that, and then don't stop until you do. All your friends here are behind you. Go get 'em Tiger!!!

PS Your responses sounded very mature and well thought out, vs. his emotionally charged and orthographically-challenged ones.

[Moncha]

Leah,
You and your writings are so profound!! Being in the business that I'm in, I have developed quite a data base for certain profiles and this little rat fits in to some of the best of them. I fear that the most basic levels of morality are very few and far between in some of the population of this planet and the numbers keep growing.
I agree with Leah, "Go get 'em tiger!" Good luck! With your professionalism and attitude, you will prevail!

[BumbleV-X]

Makes me want to get a new name and bid them up. Zero feedback of every bidder..hint hint hint. I bet we could find a lot of zero feedbacks around here. Bet there would be alot of zero senders to.

Don't give up on eBay because of one jerk. I just bought a Isuzu Amigo off of eBay, and I love it.

Deby

[engfant]

make sure you post a negative feedback! That is the worst thing to have on eBay!

[Cyrk]

Guess it did not work out?...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1872012305

What a DICK.

Oh well did you get your money back??

-Dave

[Anita]

Jack him up Dyanni..

Let us know if there is anything we can do to help!

[BumbleV-X]

Looks like he relisted them on eBay with a buy it now of $1,500.00.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1872012305

Amazingly, he then has the guts to put it as a private auction. That way no one from here can warn the innocent person purchasing them that they have been sold at least once before.

This is just WRONG!

[dyanni]

Geeeeez. Relisted! I have to laugh. I submitted a fraud complaint against the seller - seems to have outed himself on Ebay - since he chose to relist. Ebay says they take up to 24 hours to respond to a fraud complaint. One hour from now will be 24 hours. I do not think this auction will go to the end. That plug will be pulled. I got the direct number to paypal to see what they can do for me - if anything.

Will let you guys know what comes of it. This is a miserable feeling.

[01VX]

I definatly second not getting wheels over the internet or through auctions,If you have a warranty issue with your wheels you will have a hard time getting it handled unless it goes through the same place they were purchased

[BumbleV-X]

dyanni,
Thought you'd like this info too. At another website I visit some one noticed and linked those rims from eBay. I very quickly linked the same rims to here and this post. I found it funny to read their comments. Thought you all would find it funny too.

http://www.4x4wire.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=68;t=008786

Deby

[Yefim]

Why is the auction still going?? I guess eBay isn't doing anything... so much for their policy. Someone has to setup a fake acount and place a $1,000,000.00 bid so the guy would get hit with the final value eBay fees :-) Anyone? Bueller?

[dyanni]

Well - I thought deep and hard about posting negative feeback until Ebay finishes whatever they do in a situation like this - but this morning when I saw the latest bid was close to his asking price, I had to post feedback. I did - and as he promised, he provided me negative feedback as well. But I have proof I contacted him within two days. His "counter" feedback - is simply, proveably(sp?) untrue - and I am confident Ebay will remove that feedback against me - when they read his extortion attempt to keep me from posting against him. I did get in touch with Ebay voice - who said they can do nothing till whatever is in progress finishes, but they made a note on my case that the goods were relisted and currently active. I hope they don't let it go to the end - that would be wrong on their part - me thinks.

I'll keep you posted.

[johnnyapollo]

The thing that gets me here, is that he gave you that crock of bull about the underbidder offering him more money, then he relists the rims. Have you filed a complaint with PayPal yet... sounds like he hasn't refunded you your $$.

-- John

[Leah]

What is the current status of this problem with ebay? If this complaint is not resolved to your satisfaction - and therefore the satisfaction of all your friends here - they will hear from me and I'm sure from everyone else on this board. Someone can post a link to ebay's email and we can all send them our thoughts. I'll bet it will be the first time they are ever bombarded on behalf of one person. But truely, what happens to one happens to any and all users of ebay. Still, I haven't given up my faith in ebay yet. Let us know what's going on. We're here to support you.

Leah

[dyanni]

ALL YOU'Z

I REALLY appreciate the feedback and support on this. Its come both in-forum and personal email. I know I am doing the right thing - following all their rules. They said - that doesn't always mean you win. One of my favorite quotes " A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches , and loving favour rather than silver and gold " has always steered my life - and directed how I interact with others. I guess that's why I stay broke - but have found such great friends :)

The Ebay "SafeHarbor" folks requested the specific email where the seller refused to refund/ship - with the full Internet headers. I sent that - along with most of the content of our exchanges. It has been a few days now - no word yet.

In the sellers response to the negative feedback I posted - he says he refunded my money!


Complaint : "He" is reselling Rims HE sold me but NEVER shipped. Refuses to refund $1.5K BAD
Response by "seller" - I Sent it back and he was trying to get the payment twice loser big time!!!!!!!


So I called PayPal and they confirmed there has been no transfer or pending transfer of money from his account to mine. They walked me through their website to get to the complaint page - and now - they too are contacting the seller to find out what the problem is. Their probe could take 30 days ...

So now SquareTrade, Ebay, and PayPal are sending him email requesting feedback on my complaint.

Since I posted negative feedback several days ago - bidders must have actually read it - because there have been no new bids on the rims since.

This was his promised retaliation


"Seller" Complaint: NO REPLY 3 Days not one messege I had to relist it BAD EBAYER, Dead Beat ebayer-

Response by dyanni@alltel.net - Won Oct 22nd, Contacted 24th, PAID 25th. Dont TRUST - He refuses to refund $$


I hate they give you such a small letter count for feedback - so that's the best I could do.

I will keep this forum updated - but for now it seems to be the waiting game.

[dyanni]

Heard today from SquarTrade. They are the organization that tries to negotiate disputes between online parties. After 14 days of no response, they give you the option of having any negative feedback left by the m.i.a. seller removed from Ebay. Marc responded on day 14 saying he "paid the money back a long time ago" Which is still untrue. They took his word for it and closed that case.

Ebay wrote today to tell me that they are still investigating - but directed me to the news that the seller is no longer a registered member of the site - Rim auction and all - gone ( all but the negative feedback for me ) They did not say if they removed him, or if he chose to do it himself. They suggested I call my bank to investigate charge-back options immediately - and said I should consider filing for charges of mail fraud against the seller.

The last group investigating indicates he has not yet responded to them, but now I see - odds are he will within the deadline they set. At least THEY are asking for proof of refund or shipment.

More to come I am sure....

[Leah]

You poor thing! What an absolute nightmare. I guess SquareTrader isn't so square after all. Maybe their name is really Square Traitor and they just didn't know how to spell it. They didn't even ask for proof of refund? What a sad state of affairs. Please let me know if I can help in any way; a petition, email, hand written letter, or anything else you can think of. Do all you can to get your money back and stop this less-than-a-man from doing the same thing to someone else.

Jumpin' Jack Flash! This is why I'm an alien.;pg;

[Dallas4u]

Dyanni, how is the progress going on your situation?

[dyanni]

All is not well in LaLa land.

So Far - I have filed claims through SquarTrade, Ebay, and Paypal.

SquareTrade contacted the seller. He told them he already paid me back. They dropped the case.

Ebay contacted me asking for email evidence of the claim - which I provided. Seller re-listed tires on Ebay. Ebay contacted the seller asking for proof of refund. Seller did not respond. Ebay dropped seller. Oddly, in early/mid November - the seller initiated a partial refund to my account through paypal - then cancelled it a few minutes later. Even though I did not catch that opportunity for closure - it does show that he knows he did not pay me back yet.

PayPal contacted seller asking for proof of 1) Shipment 2) past refund 3) Proof of new refund. Seller responded he already paid, offered no proof. PayPal froze his account and attempted to collect my money from his paypal account. He had already emptied it. PayPal dropped the case. If he ever put money back in paypal - it is supposedly going to be routed to my account.


Ebay sent me an Email reccommending that I file a case with the Internet Fraud Center and law enforcement. They consider this mail fraud. So do I.

After the last of them closed the case - I got emails indicating they found the seller at fault, but could do no more than they had. I wrote the selelr again, letting him know I would continue to pursue this unless he provided a full refund by Dec 1 2002. That deadline came and went without a response.

I have considered several options.

Forgiving the debt. I thought long and hard about this one. He is a young guy - with a kid on the way - obviously has problems in his life - wouldn't want to cause his new family any more grief than they already have . . . . But then - I re-read his caustic emails and realize he has not done one redeeming thing in this whole exchange. I was contacted by another guy on Ebay who said he sold the seller a mountain bike ( the one you saw on top of the VX he had for sale ) for 800.00 but never got paid. After he went though the whole Ebay investigation process - he is still out his money. He said it's difficult to motivate the guy in IA when he is in NJ - but he asked me for his phone number so he can pick up again. He is looking for payback. Which leads me to my second option. Which I wont explore here. It does involve me meeting up with the biker dude and going to meet the seller in lovely downtown Ceder Rapids. That has been a popular suggestion by those of you who have emailed me privately - some I met in person :) My final option is the course I plan to follow. I have to be in Texas again next week, Austin this round - which leaves precious little time before Christmas to make any addt'l travel plans - So I may end up doing this just after the new year. But - I will visit the appropriate law enforcement agency in his home town and seek to file charges. At this point, if I end up paying even more in the process - I am still looking to do the right thing. Maybe if the seller learns a lesson from this, he won't pass the bad behaviour along to Seller jr.


Thanks for the interest - and support.

[SGT.BATGUANO]

Do you have to file charges in HIS town? Why not file in your area and make him come out your way? If he failed to show, I would think you'd win the judgement by default.

- or -

Have you consulted with an attorney?

[Tone]

Surely there are some VXers in this scum’s town who could help you out? Could you post his address?

Let me know when you’ll be in Austin so we can meet up.

[Dallas4u]

PLEASE make him pay for it one way or another!!!! Please please PLEASE!!!

The whole argument of him being young and having a kid on the way is either just a cop out or a plain lie. And I agree after going back and reading everything he had said to you, and the way has has been avoiding every option you and all of the different companies and agnecies involved have been offering to close the case, he needs to be taught a serious lesson this time... I say this time because there is no doubt in my mind that this is the first (or second as you have found out) time he has done this.

I really can't wait to hear what will happen next!!

By the way, I have an all positive rating on Ebay, and I have never had any problems. I say to watch yourself, and never order anything from anyone who has a negative rating. There can be exeptions, like if they have over 1000 feedback and a couple negatives. Some people just will never be happy about how long things take to ship or the fact that it doesn't look exactly like it did in the picture... expect it! But, usually (and I say that carefully), if you watch yourself and aren't too trusting, you can have a good time with Ebay. I know Dyanni was totally shafted, so I really want something done about this nut-sack.

[AlaskaVX]

First of all I believe that you will get your money back.

I think that you should list his eBay registered name here so that everyone can leave negative feedback about his foul language and foul sales. I don't mind getting negative feedback I just got an account to buy my Ironman, and to let you know that deal went well. (just one small dent he didn't mension.)

[johnnyapollo]

The guy has already been kicked off of eBay. You could persue PayPal for the funds and claim "foul"... just because they say they've done everything, doesn't mean that they aren't culpable. In my opinion, PayPal did not respond quick enough in this case.

I've said this in another thread, but I'll reiterate. You should always use a credit card to pay for merchandise. Credit cards will allow you to charge back up to 60 days after the transaction. The cc company would have charged back PayPal.. making them go after this scumbag instead of you.

I don't understand PayPal's unwillingness to go after this guy. He had to register a bank account for the funds transfer... PayPal can go to his bank, while you can't. I think you need to beat down PayPal's doors and threaten them with a lawsuit. If nothing else, I know people you can contact to get your case a lot of media attention. That will def get PayPal moving to resolve the problem.

-- John

[dyanni]

John - I HAVE beaten myself up about not using a CC! I added one to PayPal - but just had it as a backup to checking. I liked knowing I was only spending what I had on hand. I got his email last night from a different ebay member ( someone I didn't know ) who offered this advice ...


Hi,

I noticed your post about your unforunate experience on eBay. I have a Merchant Account, I proccess Credit Card orders, and know that your Best recourse is thru Your credit card company. I Sure hope you used a credit card when paying via PayPal??? Any way, if you did, contact your credit card company and file a Dispute. Tell them that you were billed for products/services you never received. They will ask you for proof and information regarding this transaction and I'm sure you will get your money from them. In turn they will go back to PayPal for their money....PayPal is just a Large Merchant Account like me and every other company that proccesses credit cards. Then PayPal will have to chase this guy.

I am President of a Online Marketing company and 99% of all our receipts are from Credit Cards. We, from time to time, have people trying to dispute their charges even after they receive the goods. There is Always someone trying to get Something for Nothing!!

Always pay with a Credit Card online, don't get fooled when using PayPal and send an eCheck or let them debit your account, you Always have recourse with you Credit Card company. Run it thru your credit card company...I think they All offer online fraud protection and on top of that, you have been defrauded, you never received your goods!!

And if by chance you did use PayPal's option of eCheck or Debit I think you still have cause with your Bank. It has been my experience, that a person like this does not have the ability to repay so "Putting him Up Against the Wall" will not put cash in your pocket!! (I have been there...Done that!!)

Good Luck and Best regards,
Woofer Smith



Nice Guy - to take the time out to send that to someone he doesn't know.

Despite the length of this thread - it only happened Oct 25th ( payment date ) So I will see what Bank of America can do for me today.

[Leah]

Hi,

I'm so sorry that this is problem is continuing. You are within your rights, morally and ethically, to pursue in this matter. Just imagine if the first guy who got ripped off by this seller had followed through, you wouldn't be undergoing this tribulation. By your actions, you could prevent this seller from treating anyone else like this. It's sad, really, because he has a pattern of such illegal activities and it sounds like he lacks a conscience. Even the Bible mentions people who cannot rest unless they cause misery for others. Some people are just bad, through and through. He may not be, but only time will tell. In the meantime, don't feel bad about pursuing justice. You have behaved in a mature and reasonable manner and are doing the right thing by exposing and 'convicting' a criminal.

In case you haven't already found it, I did some research and found this. I hope it proves useful:

http://www.usps.com/postalinspectors/fraud/JunkEmail.htm

[dyanni]

Yesterday I contacted a local lawyer. After listening to my story - she suggested I file a complaint with the Internet Fraud Center - afterwhich I should contact both the district attorneys office where the seller lives - and - contact a lawyer in Ceder Rapids. One for Criminal action and the other for Civil representation for the cash. Today I failed a dispute with my bank ( was still within the 60 days allowed ) BOA indicated they would have a "resolution" ( on way or another ) by Dec 18. Tomorrow I contact the DA and sellers-area-attorney. In Austin next week - don't know what kind of internet access will be waiting for me - but anything changes significantly - I'll let you know.

[Leah]

Thank you for your efforts at keeping us all informed. I know it's a pain, but we all appreciate it very much.

[dyanni]

Today begins a new chapter in this story.

I planned to make my phone calls to the Ceder Rapids lawyers this week - no later than Friday to start the civil part - and to the district attorney where the seller lives so they can file their own charges ...

When I got home tonight and checked and had two enjoyable pieces of email. One from Coop - a VX'r in Atlanta, and one from the Postal Inspectors office. Seems the 20" Wheel/Tire seller lied about the other buyer skipping out on him. He ripped him off too, to the tune of about 2300 bucks! Ebay allowed the tires/rims to be re-auctioned - and that's how I got involved to the tune of 1500+ bucks. After he kept my money and RELISTED them again - I called Ebay directly to complain about the potential for another Ebayer to get ripped off - thats when THEY pulled the plug on him. If the first seller complained to Ebay - and the allowed the second, then third auction of those wheels to take place - then Ebay is definitely in the WRONG on this ( IMHO ) at any rate - I verified the validity of the email - phoned the Inspectors office to confirm I will be speaking live with them tomorrow. The email stated that if I kept my correspondence with the seller, then my case could be added to the one in process. : ) Of course I did. Add to that - a different seller that wrote me to complain that as a buyer this dude was a dud too to the tune of 800 bucks.

So - for those counting - the sellers current tally is 2300 + 1500 + 800 = 4600!

The party is just starting ...

[Dallas4u]

I do love a lynching... expecially when we are kept updated!

Please, let us know how it goes tomorrow!

[Navigator]

Well Dyanni it appears that now you have the wheels of justice rolling in the right direction. The cards are stacked against the guy who ripped you off, The process may be long and frustrating, but I predict in the end you will prevail.

[dyanni]

Talked to the fed today and he told me to calm down. :) He reminded me the wheels of justice turn slooooooooooooooooowly. Okay Okay - I've only had to wait 2 months to get to this point. The ORIGINAL buyer of the rims was cheated 4 months ago. Those ebay newbies won the set for 2300 bucks - sent a check that was subsequently cashed, then started getting the run around. "I'm having the wheels cleaned ... I'm having the tires conditioned ... I'm getting a good set of boxes to ship them in ... " after a while, the seller stopped responding to them. They did not know the rules about negative feedback so never posted. That's how I got ripped off. They did complain to Ebay however who launched their little investigation thing, and told them they were too late to do anything about it.

The fed dude said the dot the i's and cross all the t's before they pursue a federal case - but this one looked good for proceeding. This weekend, when I get home, I will foward all the info I have on it to him. I wonder if I should still pursue him through the local district attorney/civil lawyers ... Would that impede the other process ???

[jim falcione]

I would ask the feds that question.
I admire you for your calm yet resolute demeanor. I wish I possesed those admirable traits. By now I would have hunted the "poor excuse for a human being" down like a dog and skinned him alive. Go for the jugular!
Good Luck!!

Jim

[skullcap]

dyanni:

Sorry to hear of your woes with this. Just a thought, after looking back over all the postings and responses on this thread. If you have not already done so, you might want to print-out alot of this dialogue.

#1 it tracks with your experience and you have some very clear descriptions of what's gone down. As well as other testimonials and responses.

#2 this thread dates all postings, so it provides an official record of the chronology of events.

This is for everyone. I've not had much time to listen to the local Clark Howard Consumer Action Show on AM 750 in Atlanta, but occasionally I do hear him rant about PayPal & EBay getting worse at handling fraud. For example, this item comes from his radio braodcast this past Monday (http://clarkhoward.com/shownotes/2003/01/06.html):

"Phony escrow services scamming you!
Over the last 18 months, Clark has warned people about doing business with Ebay, the world’s dominant auction site. People who use ebay and other auction sites get ripped off repeatedly by bogus auction sellers. As a safe zone, Clark has recommended that you use an escrow service. These services hold your money for a fee, and when you receive the merchandise the escrow service releases the money to the seller. Well, these services could be just as dangerous. The latest crime in the auction world is phony escrow services. The number of phony services has topped the 200 mark, according to the Chicago Tribune. One teenager in Alberta, Canada set up one of these services and took an average of $3,000 from people who sent him money. His parents thankfully have set up a restitution plan to have their son pay people back. But he’s just one of many. You need to know the rules of the game. If you are a buyer, you are covered up to $200 usually with most auction sites. But if you use the auction site’s own escrow service, you will have more protection. Just make sure they are legitimate according to the Better Business Bureau. If you are a seller, verify addresses before you ship merchandise to someone."

[Cptnmorgan]

Stake your revenge here!! www.ebayersthatsuck.com

At least you can vent there a little!!!:D