v8 swap help

[imfraeglasgow]

How's it going everyone, I just bought my first VX and absolutely love it. I'm no first timer to Isuzu though I had an 02 Trooper LS a few years back so I already knew about the serious underpower of the 3.5. I want to do a v8 swap but I'm just trying to weigh my options here. I have heard the Northstar is a great fit and the stock transmission links up, but I wouldn't do it the one I have needs to be serviced as is. I bought the rig already with the intentions to swap out the motor. However I have also started thinking to go Ford and put in a 5.0, I imagine it will fit as the autopro guys in MD are putting a gm 5.3 in one. Which brings me to my next issue, which transmission is the way to go? If I go Northstar should I get a turbo 400? Will that fit in the VX? For the 5.0 I was thinking along the lines of a c4, a buddy of mine builds Mustangs for a living so I can get a great deal on the drivetrain, just want to make sure everything will link up. Also how much do you think the other miscellaneous stuff will be wiring harness mounts etc. Thanks a lot for any help.

[circmand]

since no one has done it your Ford friend would be best at determining that

[Ascinder]

The main concerns about the Northstar being installed were if the stock puny transmission in the VX would survive without the engines power being substantially de-rated. A TH400 is a pretty compact transmission so it ought to fit. Ford stuff usually=more money than GM with less of an active aftermarket utilization. You can find GM LS series engines being converted to power just about everything on the planet that moves.

[gstguy97]

best/cheapest way to go is a 5.3 truck motor/ 4l60e 4x4 trans, dana 300 t-case and a novak adapter kit to make everything work...

[imfraeglasgow]

The main concerns about the Northstar being installed were if the stock puny transmission in the VX would survive without the engines power being substantially de-rated. A TH400 is a pretty compact transmission so it ought to fit. Ford stuff usually=more money than GM with less of an active aftermarket utilization. You can find GM LS series engines being converted to power just about everything on the planet that moves.

Would the th400 link up to the 3.5? My current oem tranny is not doing so well and I am looking to replace that first for the time being. What about the 4l60e will that link up to the 3.5 as well?

[imfraeglasgow]

best/cheapest way to go is a 5.3 truck motor/ 4l60e 4x4 trans, dana 300 t-case and a novak adapter kit to make everything work...

I was thinking that it seems the best way to go. Don't you lose TOD though? Is there a way to go v8 and keep TOD?

[yellowgizmo99]

The guys at AutoPro are working on one to do that.

[Ascinder]

You likely get to keep TOD if you only replace the engine. The TOD works off of the transfer case which is married to the transmission. Having TOD without the stock transmission/transfer case is close to impossible to expect. You have to keep in mind that TOD is just Isuzu branding for an early traction control system. As far as a TH400 bolting up, I don't know. I have an intense personal hatred for automatics :bwgy: I do believe however that someone on this forum was looking into what would bolt up and doing a little more than talking about it so you might try searching a little more. Also, read this so you don't get your hopes up:


Originally Posted by AutoPros
Have a '99 that one of our customers wanted to remove the poor running 3.5L for a more popular motor to source parts for. Bring on the GM Performance 5.3L E-ROD! GM 4L60-E Transmission! GM Performance Supermatic Controller! Advance Adapters to Jeep Dana 300 Transfer Case! Retain A/C, Power Steering, 4WD, pretty much everything other than TOD. Still in fab process, but will update with photos as the progress continues.

[yellowgizmo99]

oops, misread

[imfraeglasgow]

You likely get to keep TOD if you only replace the engine. The TOD works off of the transfer case which is married to the transmission. Having TOD without the stock transmission/transfer case is close to impossible to expect. You have to keep in mind that TOD is just Isuzu branding for an early traction control system. As far as a TH400 bolting up, I don't know. I have an intense personal hatred for automatics :bwgy: I do believe however that someone on this forum was looking into what would bolt up and doing a little more than talking about it so you might try searching a little more. Also, read this so you don't get your hopes up:

Okay yeah I want to get a new tranny my current one is ehh at best. So if i go 4l60e or th400 and have the dana transfer case I should be able to keep TOD, that's good to know I mean it isnt the end of the world to lose it but it would be nice to have I always liked it since my trooper. I was researching and the 5.3 is the cheapest way to go for sure, I just have to get all the little stupid **** manifolds, wiring, etc. I would love to convert it to a manual but that would be too much for me right now. I'm gonna get in touch with the autopro guys from Maryland see what they say about the th cause I found a few for only 1200 new, the 4l is almost 1800 from gm.

[Ascinder]

I think there is something you're misreading. If you dont keep the stock transmission/transfer case, then you are going to lose TOD. With any other automatic or manual transmission and transfer case, you are going to be locked into either 2WD or 4WD. Thats it. And the 4WD is 50/50 front to rear power split with no adjustments. TOD lives in the stock transfer case, so a dana or any other case just doesnt have it.

[AutoPros]

Keeping the factory TOD is near impossible, there are just so many issues with adapters and control integration with any of the TOD options that its not worth the time, money and aggrivation.

[vt_maverick]

Keeping the factory TOD is near impossible, there are just so many issues with adapters and control integration with any of the TOD options that its not worth the time, money and aggrivation.

This is why I don't understand the fascination with going the V8 route. If you swap the auto tranny for the AR-5 5-speed you keep TOD, get a more power-capable transmission, and you can bolt up to the Ecotec turbo 4-bangers that (when tuned with the factory kit) make well over 300 HP. That gives you equivalent power plus less weight and better fuel economy.

But you guys are the experts actually turning wrenches. Is there a hole in that theory?

[Triathlete]

I would much prefer a real teansfer case to the TOD...of course my interests lie outside the typical road use.

[imfraeglasgow]

Keeping the factory TOD is near impossible, there are just so many issues with adapters and control integration with any of the TOD options that its not worth the time, money and aggrivation.

Okay well it's not the end of the world. I'm thinking of doing the swap you guys did do you have say a digital copy with the steps it took to do the swap and the necessary parts? If not could I call you so I can get some of the information. Also would the 4l65e from the Axiom be able to link to the erod? I can find one of those for considerably less.

[Ascinder]

This is why I don't understand the fascination with going the V8 route. If you swap the auto tranny for the AR-5 5-speed you keep TOD, get a more power-capable transmission, and you can bolt up to the Ecotec turbo 4-bangers that (when tuned with the factory kit) make well over 300 HP. That gives you equivalent power plus less weight and better fuel economy.

But you guys are the experts actually turning wrenches. Is there a hole in that theory?

Yes, V-8's have nice fat torque and horsepower curves while turbo 4 bangers have to rev to the moon to get their horsepower and even then their torque is lackluster. There is also the availability and expense. V-8's are produced in such high numbers and have been around so long that practically everyone knows how to work on them or can point you to someone who can. There is a huge aftermarket and knowledge base as the GM LS series has been installed into just about anything that moves. Don't get me wrong, the ecotecs are really great engines, but the VX is a pretty heavy vehicle and you're going to be running that engine pretty hard all the time, where in the same circumstances the V-8 is going to move it around in it's sleep. The ecotec is actually quite a bit lighter too, but I can't say that really adds all that much to it's value here. What's another couple hundred pounds when the vehicle already weighs over 4,000? Gas mileage is never going to be great in a vehicross. I'm sorry, but our vehicle is just not a zippy little commuter car and never will be. We weigh twice as much and take up a lot more space. I think you're mileage might be better with a 4 cyl. but if you have to rev your engine to death every time you do anything, your mileage is going to suffer substantially.

[Ascinder]

Sorry, double post

[tribalvx]

im actually wondering what everyones opinion of using the engine transmisson of a BMW X6... the 3.0 has 300hp. engine bay appears to be the same size and the M series has 500 hp twin turbo. im contemplating doing a swap in 12 months and entering desert races downb here in the southwest. (lots of sand)

[Ascinder]

BMW's are great, but wouldn't a swap like that be expensive, not to mention parts/repairs down the road? Also, what side does the transfer case output sit? How about the AWD system? Seems like a cool idea, but sounds very difficult to execute and retain any of the systems. 8 speeds would be cool as hell to have though, and paddle shifters on a VX would be pretty cool.

[vt_maverick]

Yes, V-8's have nice fat torque and horsepower curves while turbo 4 bangers have to rev to the moon to get their horsepower and even then their torque is lackluster. There is also the availability and expense. V-8's are produced in such high numbers and have been around so long that practically everyone knows how to work on them or can point you to someone who can. There is a huge aftermarket and knowledge base as the GM LS series has been installed into just about anything that moves. Don't get me wrong, the ecotecs are really great engines, but the VX is a pretty heavy vehicle and you're going to be running that engine pretty hard all the time, where in the same circumstances the V-8 is going to move it around in it's sleep. The ecotec is actually quite a bit lighter too, but I can't say that really adds all that much to it's value here. What's another couple hundred pounds when the vehicle already weighs over 4,000? Gas mileage is never going to be great in a vehicross. I'm sorry, but our vehicle is just not a zippy little commuter car and never will be. We weigh twice as much and take up a lot more space. I think you're mileage might be better with a 4 cyl. but if you have to rev your engine to death every time you do anything, your mileage is going to suffer substantially.

Was reading through some old threads and just came across this for the first time (I was still on my epic cross-country adventure when it was posted). Couple thoughts:


Ecotec Turbo 2.0 reaches max torque at 2500 RPM, max HP at 5300 RPM. I wouldn't call those "rev to the moon" figures - have you seen the chart for an RX-8 or S2000?
See red above. If the Ecotec makes superior HP and torque at lower RPMs (5300 vs 5400 and 2500 vs 3000) with less weight than the Isuzu 3.5 why would I be running pretty hard all the time?
See blue. Seems like the VX has an equal chance of being a peppy commuter as it does being a drag strip-blazing race truck, which it seems like is the point of V8 swaps that eliminate TOD.

I'm interested in improving fuel economy and reliability, not the ability to post quarter mile and 0-60 times that I'd have to be on a private drag strip to hit anyway. It seems like in the worst case I'd end up with similar performance to what I have today but with a more efficient and cheaper to maintain engine.

I might have a line on a cheap and complete Saturn Sky Redline so this isn't me being argumentative - I want to be talked out of it before I do something if there are serious flaws in the theories above.

Feedback?

[Chopper]

Keeping the factory TOD is near impossible, there are just so many issues with adapters and control integration with any of the TOD options that its not worth the time, money and aggrivation.

Second that emotion......just dump the lump
save some weight in the process

[ZeroSix]

On the peppiness:
Drag speed off the line is not the same as stability at high speeds. I learned this in my old tuner days that small city zippers or drag setups are lousy at sustained high speeds in general.

Case in point. A properly setup honda 4 banger will beat a v12 lambo in quarter mile runs at a fraction of the cost.

Past a quarter mile,the longer the distance: Byebye honda.

Comfort is another factor. Suspension and mounts soak a lot of wheel HP to be comfortable.