Proof that Isuzu actively supported limited VX sales?

[blacksambo]

Just came across this pricing document from one of our '99 VXs original sale.

As you can see below the Isuzu dealer artificially marked up the price tag by a substantial margin, thus, limiting sales potential.

[vt_maverick]

Perhaps, but that's just one theory. I bought my G35 coupe in the first six months they were available and most dealerships were tacking on a "market adjustment" of $2-3K (though I didn't pay one). In that case dealers were simply taking advantage of high demand and low initial supply. The car was a huge hit for Infiniti and they went on to sell 2-4K per month (during which the adjustment was dropped).

I think your argument would be more compelling if Isuzu was applying that markup in 2000 and 2001. By all accounts I've read there was ample demand in 1999, which I think makes a market adjustment an equally (or perhaps even more) likely explanation.

[Ldub]

Just came across this pricing document from one of our '99 VXs original sale.

As you can see below the Isuzu dealer artificially marked up the price tag by a substantial margin, thus, limiting sales potential.

SRSLY...:confused:

You need to be right so badly that you start a whole new thread devoted to your "OPINION"...:_thinking

C'mon dude, let it go....:rolleyesg

Ommmmmmmm, Ommmmmmmm, Ommmmmmmmmm...:yesgray:

[Chopper]

The dealer is NOT Isuzu. Dealerships are independent contractors of a sort, and owned by entities other than the manufacturer.
They charge whatever they can get.....Isuzu sets their conditional price (lot plan and crap) but it's pretty much the same for all stealerships.
Out the door pricing has almost nothing to do with the manufacturer. Dealers charge what they please....your science is flawed mate

[blacksambo]

Call it what ever you will but this type of use, or in this instance misuse of the dealer franchise rights, in full view of Isuzu corporate, discouraged, not encouraged higher VX sales. I guess Isuzu didn't care?

[Ldub]

Call it what ever you will but this type of use, or in this instance misuse of the dealer franchise rights, in full view of Isuzu corporate, discouraged, not encouraged higher VX sales. I guess Isuzu didn't care?

Said it before, I'll say it again...:rolleyesg

If there was profit to be had, they woulda found a way...& to quote someone near & dear...to you...

"Nuff Said"...:rotate:

[dietz99vcross]

Well I bought my 99 new in April of 99 and the dealer didn't ask for a penny over sticker, so I side with the "No Conspiracy" clan.

[Osteomata]

OMG what a bunch of conspiracy theory nonsense. I also want to see the the VX long form birth certificate and its alibi for 9/11. You have an independent dealer making a market estimated mark up. Never mind proof, it doesn't even rise to the level of evidence.

[blacksambo]

It's a smoking gun...

[vt_maverick]

In someone else's hands. Dealers as a seperate entity is a great point that hadn't occurred to me at all. Even if Isuzu was aware they were incapable of mandating or banning a markup. And it would be silly to think that dealers would need to have a markup suggested to them to start doing it.

FWIW I think your argument about the halo effect and race entry requirements was far better than this stretch.

[JoFotoz]

There are several examples of Limited Class Homologation runs (specific build numbers for race entry)...

...that went on to mass production, because of public market DEMAND.

I personally believe that if the VX had sold in commercial numbers at commercial speed,
at commercially viable prices....and the market DEMAND had been there.

Then a "VX Mk2" or such would of hit the market right quick.

JMHO...:dan_ban:

Jo

[blacksambo]

In the world of marketing (which I know well) for a test market you absolutely control price. Once price floats out of control it says you have no concern with the future of that test market offering. It's no longer a pure microcosim test. That's all I'm saying; Isuzu sought not to control the fututre of the VX offering, it was not in test market to begin with destined for a future full-scale launch if successful at generrating a sufficent number of sales, and this is consistent with what was said in the "Art and Science" iSUZU video. They said ceramic dies used because they knew the VX was not for everyone, period. Let the dealers do as they may, this is not a long term proposition.

[vt_maverick]

I know business well and no company turns down a solid revenue stream if they discover one, whether through a planned test or by accident.

[blacksambo]

If you let the price fluctuate in a test market you have nothing to take to the board or the bank. It's no longer a fair test, no matter what you discover, and besides nobody will believe you. What you are proposing runs against the basic scientific method.

[Dumke]

Just came across this pricing document from one of our '99 VXs original sale.

As you can see below the Isuzu dealer artificially marked up the price tag by a substantial margin, thus, limiting sales potential.

What is funny about that picture is it saying "protecting the customer"

[Dumke]

Blacksambo,

Um ok im not buisness major but wow you are far out there on this whole post. HAFS

So I guess no one should ever buy anything. Also your reasoning of companies making money because its "rare" is laughable. So does that make everything in Wal~mart rare? Take their gum for instance, which they mark up 100% (its good gum btw because its rare). Every company out there no matter who they are are about selling a product, period. Whole sale sells cheaper to a retail which in turn marks up to sell it to a consumer. THis is how they make money and how the world revolves. That goes with any product in any country. No company cares what happens to their product or if it gets resold or not. They did their job, they got it off their shelf.




Oh and btw Elvis and Tupac are still alive :D

[Ldub]

Blacksambo,

Um ok im not buisness major but wow you are far out there on this whole post. HAFS



Ya lost me there Rob...:confused:

HAFS ? (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CG4QFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dholmes.com%2Fhafs.html&ei=VNXET5vjPMbUgQeGn8nRCQ&usg=AFQjCNFRnhDppAvePkxtpuEZIebfkfEPEQ&sig2=iIupRYIVy4PdRPdNNgBclQ)

:laughing:

[Dumke]

Ya lost me there Rob...:confused:

HAFS ? (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CG4QFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dholmes.com%2Fhafs.html&ei=VNXET5vjPMbUgQeGn8nRCQ&usg=AFQjCNFRnhDppAvePkxtpuEZIebfkfEPEQ&sig2=iIupRYIVy4PdRPdNNgBclQ)

:laughing:

Ya my sentence structure is some what laughable :) ... and HAFS... Honestly and factually speaking?? lol.. :p


I was mearly stating that WOW thats a far stretch. Or maybe I am missing something from a previous post?? :confused:

[vt_maverick]

So if sales were strong throughout production and dealerships had thousands on waiting lists across the US in late 2001 you really think Isuzu (and their creditors) would have passed because they didn't follow the scientific method?

[Cris]

I got mine new in 99 dealer demo ha ha got mine 2000miles on it but full factory and all the goodies 27,849 thought I did well ha ha ha

[Scott Larson]

It's not news to anyone here that the VX cost more to produce then it sold for. This is also not new to the automotive market in general, there have been many examples of cars costing more to make then they sold for. Marketing of any product requires generating interest in your product line, there is a cost-to-loss ratio involved that is counterintuitive to the normal cost-to-profit ratio that most are familiar with. Just sayin...:_confused

[circmand]

When the Mazda Miata came out it was listed around $18,000 but because of demand some dealers were getting up to $35,000

[VX KAT]

wow, black sambo, you make it sound like you've never seen or heard of "dealer mark-up" before. :_thinking

Agree with all above, biz and marketing folks too,....Isuzu would always value profits above rarity.

FIRST day of my MBA...they taught us:
"Shareholder equity".....is #1 for any publically traded company.
Isuzu Motors (OTN) is publically traded and must answer to the shareholders.....to think they may inflate price to LIMIT SALES, is ...um...highly unlikely. I'd think they'd actually be sued by shareholders over that practice.



Let's think how the free market works...supply/demand...good old Keynesian theory:

Back in 1984 when I was a young pup and lived in Los Angeles, the Honda CRX debuted, to MUCH MUCH demand... I negotiated for almost 3 hrs with local Cerritos dealership on sticker price of $6,300 vs their asking price of $9,300.....yes, 47.62% MARK UP!.....It was the only one actually on a showroom floor for at least 50+ miles!
I talked till I was blue in the face (and ya'll know that'd take some time! :p) and only got them down to $8,300....so....
ferrgettaboutit!

Where could I find "lower demand" ?...out in the boonies of course! So I searched for dealerships way, way outside LA area...found one in Hemet, CA....I agreed to their $500 over sticker (dealer mark-up) price and they ordered one for me, exact specs I wanted (wow..all of two choices...color and engine size..a whoppin' 1.5l ! :laugho:).

I was drivin' my new whip in 2 months! Haven't stopped smilin' over that ride....yer first is always special!:mbrasd:


Good example on the Miata Dave, exactly the same as the CRX.
This is just how capitalism works. period.

[BigSwede]

A. Dealers are, by and large, autonomous from manufacturers. They have certain contractual responsibilities to corporate, and vice versa, but pricing is pretty much left to the dealer. In fact, too much price control by corporate will usually result in a lawsuit over fair trade/collusion/anti-monopoly laws etc.

B. Dealers will rape you if they think they can get away with it.

And that's really all there is to it.

[JoFotoz]

PT Cruiser.....another of MANY that dealers marked up initially.

IIRC, the Bugatti Veron was a "limited edition" when first shown in Geneva...

..and demand outstripped "limited" production.

So, they built more.....


Supply & demand...given DEMAND, we'll supply....

...thats business 101.

IMO

Jo

[circmand]

the Bugatti Veron was a "limited edition" when first shown in Geneva...

..and demand outstripped "limited" production.

So, they built more.....
Jo

An interesting fact the Bugatti Vearon actually sells below cost of manufacturing. They just were determined to sell the fastest production car.

[Scott Larson]

An interesting fact the Bugatti Vearon actually sells below cost of manufacturing. They just were determined to sell the fastest production car.

Ah yeah, I kinda mentioned other manufacturers have done it. The Chevy Volt, the Ford GT, the Ferrari F40, and so on and so on and so on...Name dropper! :rotate:

[blacksambo]

wow, black sambo, you make it sound like you've never seen or heard of "dealer mark-up" before. :_thinking

Agree with all above, biz and marketing folks too,....Isuzu would always value profits above rarity.

FIRST day of my MBA...they taught us:
"Shareholder equity".....is #1 for any publically traded company.
Isuzu Motors (OTN) is publically traded and must answer to the shareholders.....to think they may inflate price to LIMIT SALES, is ...um...highly unlikely. I'd think they'd actually be sued by shareholders over that practice.



Let's think how the free market works...supply/demand...good old Keynesian theory:

Back in 1984 when I was a young pup and lived in Los Angeles, the Honda CRX debuted, to MUCH MUCH demand... I negotiated for almost 3 hrs with local Cerritos dealership on sticker price of $6,300 vs their asking price of $9,300.....yes, 47.62% MARK UP!.....It was the only one actually on a showroom floor for at least 50+ miles!
I talked till I was blue in the face (and ya'll know that'd take some time! :p) and only got them down to $8,300....so....
ferrgettaboutit!

Where could I find "lower demand" ?...out in the boonies of course! So I searched for dealerships way, way outside LA area...found one in Hemet, CA....I agreed to their $500 over sticker (dealer mark-up) price and they ordered one for me, exact specs I wanted (wow..all of two choices...color and engine size..a whoppin' 1.5l ! :laugho:).

I was drivin' my new whip in 2 months! Haven't stopped smilin' over that ride....yer first is always special!:mbrasd:


Good example on the Miata Dave, exactly the same as the CRX.
This is just how capitalism works. period.



One point here: The M.S.R.P. already contains at least 20 percent dealer mark-up or in common parlance profit. The mark up sheet I shared goes well beyond that (although, it shows the dealer's lack of basic math skills as the mark up was actually less than the 10% printed) and expresses Isuzu's tacit agreement that total price paid by the final consumer is free to float, to wherever ( Isuzu would get none of the money beyond the net M.S.R.P). They had no requirement to prove they could sell "X" units for a specific price to justify a later production expansion, they accepted a free market economy scenario instead. And that means positively it was not a test market proposition. Test market = control of all marketing variables, including selling price. "Don't let price float, it muddies the results."

[Ldub]

And that means positively it was not a test market proposition. Test market = control of all marketing variables, including selling price. "Don't let price float, it muddies the results."

Again...SRSLY ?...:confused:

Give it up...they sunk your battleship...:laughing:

Move on to a topic where you might stand a chance...:yesgray:

If there was profit to be provided the shareholders, they woulda made more...:yesgray:

OOps...:eekgray:

I forgot...you're the type that would start a new thread so they could have the last word...:rolleyesg

Go ahead, carry on...:thumbup:

Futility is your bestus Amigo...:luck:

[blacksambo]

How many vehicles can one point to in motoring history that have been test marketed in very-intentional limited numbers that later on expanded to big production numbers? Probably very few. That's why the VX was never destined for more than approx. 6000 units. The entire concept of try a few on the public makes no practical sense, at all. It's just not how it's done in vehicle marketing. There is no big toe in the water, kinda thing.

[VX KAT]

One point here: The M.S.R.P. already contains at least 20 percent dealer mark-up or in common parlance profit. The mark up sheet I shared goes well beyond that ."


so you think I was referring to that profit when I referenced "dealer mark up"?...um...no.... I didn't just fall off the turnip truck and accidently land on this car enthusiast forum.....and stay for 3 1/2 yrs...
I believe in paragraph #5 I'm quite clear that I was referring to OVER MSRP MARK UP pricing.

[blacksambo]

My apologies if I mis-represented your point. I stand corrected on your position.

[rsteinmetz70112]

Had VX's flown off the dealers lots Isuzu would have found a way to make more at a profit.

[Ldub]

If there was profit to be provided the shareholders, they woulda made more...:yesgray:

.

How many vehicles can one point to in motoring history that have been test marketed in very-intentional limited numbers that later on expanded to big production numbers? Probably very few. That's why the VX was never destined for more than approx. 6000 units. The entire concept of try a few on the public makes no practical sense, at all. It's just not how it's done in vehicle marketing. There is no big toe in the water, kinda thing.

[JoFotoz]

Sheeesh Blacksambo!!!
.
.http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/beating-dead-horse_2.gif (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=22526)


:_brickwal...


Jo

[Scott Larson]

For the love of Chrysler, if profit of every model was the profit model, then GT's and F40's and VX's would have NEVER been produced, EVER!! They were models produced to generate interest in the BRAND...:_brickwal

[blacksambo]

I'll take one if there is no price gouging involved.

[Scott Larson]

Sorry Jo, didn't mean to step on your head-banger avatar, you posted right before I did...

[Scott Larson]

I'll take one if there is no price gouging involved.

If you took one of every loss-leader model produced, you could be a very wealthy man...

[blacksambo]

Had VX's flown off the dealers lots Isuzu would have found a way to make more at a profit.

In a way they did fly year 1, in spite of premium pricing by dealers. approx. 1100 Astrals and nearly 1000 combined other colors. They only slowed down year II and III, but it was the same car, no substantial updates...no news value.

[VX KAT]

How many vehicles can one point to in motoring history that have been test marketed in very-intentional limited numbers that later on expanded to big production numbers? Probably very few.

I'm not quite sure, but I think the FJ Cruiser falls into that exact category.
I'd read numerous places and dealer also told us (yeah that's credible :rollo:) they were ONLY making the FJ for 3 model yrs...'07 - '09.

OK, great. We bought an '07, first year of production.....but....um....I think they may have gone beyond 3 yrs....like by a gazillion units.

It flew out of the stealerships, mega back order, mega Stealer Mark Up pricing...h3!i we couldn't even SIT IN ONE let alone test drive one! They had one black one pre-sold in the back lot, all we were allowed to do was look at it. And they had tacked on $3k dealer mark up and tried to "explain" to us how that was "necessary"..blah blah blah....

So...The Queen of all things Ebay turned to good ole' EBAY....scored one within 2 days, in St. Louis with 600 miles & leather interior added, and in the color & package we wanted. Flew there, dealership (private used lot with exotics) picked us up....we drove it home to Dallas, like 12 hrs.....All for $3,000 below what the stealership twit was quoting us for the lower model, and no confirmed color, and no promised delivery date....:goof:.

So, of course I had to drive over there the next day and cruise their lot..
oh and I waved to the twit, and then showed him our leather interior ....OH MAN was that fun!!!! :thumbup:

Point of the story: Toyota made more of them than just 3 model years because they could sell as many as they could produce! Cha-Ching$$$$$$

[blacksambo]

Perhaps I should have qualified my comment to say made of metal-body construction vehicles, that is. (That was of course why Isuzu resorted to ceramic dies.)

[vt_maverick]

How many vehicles can one point to in motoring history that have been test marketed in very-intentional limited numbers that later on expanded to big production numbers? Probably very few. That's why the VX was never destined for more than approx. 6000 units. The entire concept of try a few on the public makes no practical sense, at all. It's just not how it's done in vehicle marketing. There is no big toe in the water, kinda thing.

I think that idea makes sense. I just don't think the dealer markup does much to support it.

[evillecutter]

i was under the impression that isuzu used the vx to rebuild its tarnished reputation after the law suits and not to make money (on this perticular model that is - with a better rep the other models should be the money makers) - and the dealerships do what dealerships do: make as much money as they possibley can however they can - so... isnt everyone kind of right here?

[circmand]

Their bad reputation can be partially attributed to the GM/Isuzu partnership. Apparent GM figured it was better to buy a bunch of Isuzu stock and make them make crappier vehicles rather than improve their crappy products.

[Y33TREKker]

This doesn't necessarily have to be an either-or discussion.

"Isuzu actively supported limited sales" could be said to be true if a person says that rather than thinking Isuzu considered the VX a Loss-Leader product (which the VX's pricing didn't equate to anyway), the provided examples of markups could instead be viewed as a Premium Pricing strategy, especially given the fact that Isuzu planned from the start to make the VX a limited production run (regardless of whether that were based on homologation or production method).


Premium pricing is the practice of keeping the price of a product or service artificially high in order to encourage favorable perceptions among buyers, based solely on the price. The practice is intended to exploit the (not necessarily justifiable) tendency for buyers to assume that expensive items enjoy an exceptional reputation, are more reliable or desirable, or represent exceptional quality and distinction.

The VX seems to fit the description anyway considering how Isuzu advertised it at the time, not to mention how visually un-conforming it was when first introduced...and still is for that matter.

[blacksambo]

This doesn't necessarily have to be an either-or discussion.

"Isuzu actively supported limited sales" could be said to be true if a person says that rather than thinking Isuzu considered the VX a Loss-Leader product (which the VX's pricing didn't equate to anyway), the provided examples of markups could instead be viewed as a Premium Pricing strategy, especially given the fact that Isuzu planned from the start to make the VX a limited production run (regardless of whether that were based on homologation or production method).



The VX seems to fit the description anyway considering how Isuzu advertised it at the time, not to mention how visually un-conforming it was when first introduced...and still is for that matter.

Yes. At $29K, even the Wall Street Journal article from 6/18/11 called it premium priced.

[tomdietrying]

Uhhhhhhh, who cares?
Peace.
Tom

p.s.
What dub said..."Nuff said"

[Y33TREKker]

Uhhhhhhh, who cares?
Peace.
Tom

Anyone who made the effort to comment in this thread? ;)

[VX crazy]

Uhhhhhhh, who cares?
Peace.
Tom

p.s.
What dub said..."Nuff said"

Ditto!

[Ldub]

My apologies if I mis-represented your point. I stand corrected on your position.


Uhhhhhhh, who cares?
Peace.
Tom

p.s.
What dub said..."Nuff said"

Now THERE'S a comment from a sensible man...:yesgray:


Missed you lots this yr in Moab Bro, hope all is well with you & yours...:yes:.:heart:

Dub

[RickOKC]

I did a lot of obsessive reading before I bought my VX and read a LOT of stuff. Possibly at least HALF of that was typical sloppy journalism - aka WRONG - but here is the IMPRESSION I was left with:

The concept was enough of a hit at the 1993 shows that Isuzu wanted to make it a reality - and expecting it wouldn't "be for everybody" they may have used it as a test for some experimentation. Their engineers indicated they could probably get about 6000 stamps out of the unique ceramic / concrete-filled dies that cost about 1/3 of the price of traditional steel dies and somebody said, "Let's see if you're right." They also wanted the VX to go from concept to production quickly so the other part of the experiment was to bypass a lot of red tape and several levels of repetitive management that might hinder progress so the VX was assigned to a much smaller team. All that worked, the VX became reality quickly and the brains were proved to be accurate regarding the number of reliable stamps they could get out of the dies.

The final product was kinda pricey although and had some nice features, but wasn't exactly enticing enough to justify the price to the general public who test drove it. Had it been a mega-hit, Isuzu probably would have said, "Let's make some more traditional dies and mass produce" but that didn't happen.

Let the heckling begin: I not only briefly worked as a salesman for a car dealership, I worked for the sleaziest company in town. I have seen how a dealer will boost the price for a low production vehicle, just to draw people into the showroom to see something "special." In my case it was the last generation Thunderbird. Sometimes a dealer will hang on to something a little too long and suddenly the "market adjustment price" - $5000 - $15000 over MSRP - can no longer be supported and they dump the price below MSRP just to get the thing off the lot. Example: A guy I met at a car show Saturday said a local dealer offered to sell him a 2001 Ironman for $25k in 2003.

Anyway, all that could be wrong, but it's the impression I was left with. :)

[Ldub]

I did a lot of obsessive reading before I bought my VX and read a LOT of stuff. Possibly at least HALF of that was typical sloppy journalism - aka WRONG - but here is the IMPRESSION I was left with:

The concept was enough of a hit at the 1993 shows that Isuzu wanted to make it a reality - and expecting it wouldn't "be for everybody" they may have used it as a test for some experimentation. Their engineers indicated they could probably get about 6000 stamps out of the unique ceramic / concrete-filled dies that cost about 1/3 of the price of traditional steel dies and somebody said, "Let's see if you're right." They also wanted the VX to go from concept to production quickly so the other part of the experiment was to bypass a lot of red tape and several levels of repetitive management that might hinder progress so the VX was assigned to a much smaller team. All that worked, the VX became reality quickly and the brains were proved to be accurate regarding the number of reliable stamps they could get out of the dies.

The final product was kinda pricey although and had some nice features, but wasn't exactly enticing enough to justify the price to the general public who test drove it. Had it been a mega-hit, Isuzu probably would have said, "Let's make some more traditional dies and mass produce" but that didn't happen.

Let the heckling begin: I not only briefly worked as a salesman for a car dealership, I worked for the sleaziest company in town. I have seen how a dealer will boost the price for a low production vehicle, just to draw people into the showroom to see something "special." In my case it was the last generation Thunderbird. Sometimes a dealer will hang on to something a little too long and suddenly the "market adjustment price" - $5000 - $15000 over MSRP - can no longer be supported and they dump the price below MSRP just to get the thing off the lot. Example: A guy I met at a car show Saturday said a local dealer offered to sell him a 2001 Ironman for $25k in 2003.

Anyway, all that could be wrong, but it's the impression I was left with. :)

Clear as water to me...:yesgray:

If the dead horse needed an "I", instead of an "X"...they woulda made more...:yesgray:

Good point Rick, & Jo, :thanx: 4 an excellent analogy...:thumbup:

I'm wondering why the master of marketing has NO response to it...:confused:

Perhaps... WAY book smart...not so functional in real world apps...:confused:

[blacksambo]

The final product was kinda pricey although and had some nice features, but wasn't exactly enticing enough to justify the price to the general public who test drove it. Had it been a mega-hit, Isuzu probably would have said, "Let's make some more traditional dies and mass produce" but that didn't happen.

Thanks for venturing your impression I'm certain there is truth to it. The high price was indeed an issue ( along with other factors).

[Ldub]

The final product was kinda pricey although and had some nice features, but wasn't exactly enticing enough to justify the price to the general public who test drove it. Had it been a mega-hit, Isuzu probably would have said, "Let's make some more traditional dies and mass produce" but that didn't happen.

Thanks for venturing your impression I'm certain there is truth to it. The high price was indeed an issue ( along with other factors).

Soooo...as a marketing genius, the "quote" function is outta your grasp?...:_thinking

[blacksambo]

Great, now I'm being criticized for not typing fast enough :o

[Ldub]

Great, now I'm being criticized for not typing fast enough :o

There is NO typing involved...IF you can mastermind...waIt 4 it...:smilewink

The "quote" function...:yesgray:

There's another thing called "cut & paste" thas pretty cule 2.

[blacksambo]

You'll resort to criticizing anything, whether VX related or not :dance:

[JHarris1385]

What kind of gas mileage are you guys getting?

[Ldub]

You'll resort to criticizing anything, whether VX related or not :dance:

You'll resort to having the last word on anything, no matter HOW unfounded...

https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTQeQPRHmQqT1bZUzfnKfIpuugu2zdgT 7l2sKLu0n7-drRPAytC

[RickOKC]

Thanks for venturing your impression I'm certain there is truth to it. The high price was indeed an issue ( along with other factors).
Ha ha... like I said, I may be COMPLETELY wrong about all this (I'd be a little crazy to think everything I found online was absolute FACT.:rolleyes:) I just ventured my best guess based on all the stuff I'd read. If nothing else, I'd think any owner can honestly recognize the shortfalls and realize that lots of people wouldn't fall in love with the VX despite it's little imperfections. :)

[VXR]

You'll resort to having the last word on anything, no matter HOW unfounded...

hmmm sounds like someone else but who:_thinking

[circmand]

Example: A guy I met at a car show Saturday said a local dealer offered to sell him a 2001 Ironman for $25k in 2003.

Anyway, all that could be wrong, but it's the impression I was left with. :)

I bought a 2001 Proton in 2002 for $23,995. At the time we were dickering on the price I did an internet search and found 60 NEW Vehicrosses for sale around the country for $23,995. Given that the 2003 year model vehicles were coming out making a 2001 2 years old you have to allow for the fact the sales just weren't there

[JoFotoz]

WOW...


hmmm sounds like someone else but who:_thinking


Yet another sniping shot......:thumbdn:


Jo

[Y33TREKker]

WOW...

Yet another sniping shot......:thumbdn:

Jo
WOW...

Yet another hypocritical shot....... ;)

[JoFotoz]

Seriously??


WOW...

Yet another hypocritical shot....... ;)

...if so my bad.

I dont believe I make a habit of popping into threads which I am not already participating in...

...and simply dropping snide comments .

Do correct me if I am wrong ..

Jo

[Y33TREKker]

Well sure, if we're going to start classifying different types of sniping shots, what you've said is true, but come on...seriously?

[JoFotoz]

Yup, seriously.


Well sure, if we're going to start classifying different types of sniping shots, what you've said is true, but come on...seriously?

Partaking in a lively debate, even argument or disagreement is one thing..
...and I (we!) certainly do that :p

Throwing stones from beyond the field of play was/is my point...

:_beer:

Jo

[blacksambo]

I bought a 2001 Proton in 2002 for $23,995. At the time we were dickering on the price I did an internet search and found 60 NEW Vehicrosses for sale around the country for $23,995. Given that the 2003 year model vehicles were coming out making a 2001 2 years old you have to allow for the fact the sales just weren't there

Well, you have to ask "why" questions about the sales not being there. Here's one idea: 1999 marked the end of the Astral Silver paint color. They sold 1024 in this color. It accounted for approx half of total year one sales. Far and away out selling either the black or white paint colors (the black they kept alive through 2001). Why eliminate your far and away best color seller??? It makes no sense??? (Once again, it appears that Isuzu didn't seriously care about marketing this vehicle, from any vantage point, whether it was price or features.)

[RickOKC]

I bought a 2001 Proton in 2002 for $23,995. At the time we were dickering on the price I did an internet search and found 60 NEW Vehicrosses for sale around the country for $23,995.
Wowee... that was a GREAT deal! Congrats, Circ! :) :thumbup:


Well, you have to ask "why" questions about the sales not being there. Here's one idea: 1999 marked the end of the Astral Silver paint color. They sold 1024 in this color. It accounted for approx half of total year one sales. Far and away out selling either the black or white paint colors (the black they kept alive through 2001). Why eliminate your far and away best color seller??? It makes no sense??? (Once again, it appears that Isuzu didn't seriously care about marketing this vehicle, from any vantage point, whether it was price or features.)
When I was shopping, Astral was my preferred choice!

[circmand]

Well, you have to ask "why" questions about the sales not being there. Here's one idea: 1999 marked the end of the Astral Silver paint color. They sold 1024 in this color. It accounted for approx half of total year one sales. Far and away out selling either the black or white paint colors (the black they kept alive through 2001). Why eliminate your far and away best color seller??? It makes no sense??? (Once again, it appears that Isuzu didn't seriously care about marketing this vehicle, from any vantage point, whether it was price or features.)

You cant fix stupid

[Scott Larson]

Can we agree that Isuzu was not focused on long-term sales of the VX, using it rather as a marketing tool, placing it in their dealerships to generate interest, much as Ford did with their GT? Didn't think so...:_mecker:

[Ldub]

Can we agree that Isuzu was not focused on long-term sales of the VX, using it rather as a marketing tool, placing it in their dealerships to generate interest, much as Ford did with their GT? Didn't think so...:_mecker:

Couldn't agree more...:thumbup:

The VX was absolutely a HALO vehicle...(From wikipedia: The term "halo car" is often used in automotive marketing and journalism to refer to the flagship vehicle. The term is derived from the halo effect, the tendency for a favorable trait to influence the perception of subsequent traits in a sequence of interpretations; it appears to have been used as early as 1938.)

My only point through this entire morass has been...:rolleyesg

If there was demand, they woulda figured out a way to market more, in about 2 seconds...:yesgray:


NOT that far fetched, IMO...:_confused

[Ldub]

hmmm sounds like someone else but who:_thinking

:_confused...that's a pretty intelligent statement/query,...all things considered...:yesgray:

I'm guessing it was probably someone who knows how/when to use capital letters, commas, & question marks...but that's just a guess...:smilewink

[ND92]

Being the third owner of mine, I can't say that I didn't like the price brand new or if it was too high. But I did buy an $8 potato once (never doing that again)

[VXR]

Throwing stones from beyond the field of play was/is my point...



remember this??? (http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=22419)

[Y33TREKker]

Throwing stones from beyond the field of play was/is my point...
Jo
Again...seriously?

Just so I have this straight, you ARE trying to DEFEND your own past actions...right?

:p

[JoFotoz]

Sure I remember..


remember this??? (http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=22419)

...its one of several post I made in that thread, commenting on the topic.

Wanna try again?

jo

[JoFotoz]

:confused:


Again...seriously?
Just so I have this straight, you ARE trying to DEFEND your own past actions...right?
:p

:snooz:

Jo

[Y33TREKker]

:confused:

:snooz:

Jo
About what I expected, but had to be fair and give you a chance anyway. Don't you go changin' now. ;)

[VXR]

I'm guessing it was probably someone who knows how/when to use capital letters, commas, & question marks...but that's just a guess

dood rlly:rollb: