Two wheel questions I've never seen

[89Vette]

How do people know if/when a cap issue will arise? Most wheels for 4x4 vehicles have a deep cap...plenty of room for the protruding front axle (bearing cap).

LittleBeast has "normal" wheels mounted -- which I'd like to get.
http://vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=13415&highlight=littlebeast&page=3

Not THOSE wheels, but something with a flush-mount center cap. Since I haven't found the wheels I want locally, I'm trying to get info via email. And, most supply houses don't want to measure. It's a "buy one and try it scenario".

Obviously not cheap when you pay 2-way shipping if the wheel won't fit.

Of course they say you can modify or find new caps. Really? Who's ever done that? At least and had it look good.

Doesn't seem like it's asking too much for an online company to measure the centerbore depth (to the inside of the cap)? Does it?

I really looked hard at DIP D04 wheels but they say those won't fit...even though the centerbore is large enough. They say the inside hole tapers. Maybe a wheel like LittleBeast's, goes from 4.25 on the inside to a much smaller outer cutout (for the centerbore)? Obviously, LittleBeast's don't have a 4.25" outer wheel hub cap. I guess DIP is saying they're worried the centerbore would taper inward too quickly...IDK. I guess those are out though.



The other question is about wheels that have a larger than stock centerbore. I've seen a few with 107mm and 110mm. The wheel thread says they work, but how to owners know they don't ever end up slightly off-center -- with some run-out? (Up/down movement)


I need to get some new wheels on this thing. The existing set have already been promised (back) to the PO.

[tom4bren]

Of course they say you can modify or find new caps. Really? Who's ever done that? At least and had it look good.

Not on the VX but I did on my old Samurai. I just cut out a 1" collar & had a friend tack weld the pieces back together. The welds were below the surface of the rims so they didn't show. Those were on the back, the fronts didn't have center caps because of the locking hubs.
BTW they were the stock caps from the AR rims that we cut down.

The other question is about wheels that have a larger than stock centerbore. I've seen a few with 107mm and 110mm. The wheel thread says they work, but how to owners know they don't ever end up slightly off-center -- with some run-out? (Up/down movement)

Most wheels nowadays are lug centric. Very few (if any) are hub centric. That means that the lug nuts center the rim, not the hub. Running with larger hub openings will cause you no problems at all.


:)

[Y33TREKker]

...Since I haven't found the wheels I want locally, I'm trying to get info via email. And, most supply houses don't want to measure. It's a "buy one and try it scenario".

Obviously not cheap when you pay 2-way shipping if the wheel won't fit.
The cost of shipping could be worth it to know without a doubt though. I suppose it just depends on how much you like a specific wheel for your vehicle. If a company is willing to let you try one on for size, it's the best way to be absolutely sure whether any modifications may be required. Just make sure to test it on both the front and the back of the VX.

My 20" large-centerbore Boss Motorsports 305 wheels fit entirely on the back hub, but required some modification to fit on the front. The allen-head bolts on the front axle hub prevented the wheels from mating to the surface of the brake disc, so I had to have about 10mm of material taken out of the centerbore area as can be seen in this picture. (I used a negative of the photo since chrome and a camera flash can sometimes make it hard to tell where one surface starts and another begins). I ended up just having all four machined so I could rotate front to rear. Once the wheel itself fit on the hub, the centercap was never an issue.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSC01718b1.JPG

Does the manufacturer of the wheel you like have a website with a dealer locator? If there was a dealer close to another VX.info member, maybe they could go to their wheel shop and test fit one of the wheels for you on their VX? (no shipping costs required)

[89Vette]

My 20" large-centerbore Boss Motorsports 305 wheels fit entirely on the back hub, but required some modification to fit on the front. The allen-head bolts on the front axle hub prevented the wheels from mating to the surface of the brake disc, so I had to have about 10mm of material taken out of the centerbore area as can be seen in this picture. (I used a negative of the photo since chrome and a camera flash can sometimes make it hard to tell where one surface starts and another begins). I ended up just having all four machined so I could rotate front to rear. Once the wheel itself fit on the hub, the centercap was never an issue.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSC01718b.JPG

Does the manufacturer of the wheel you like have a website with a dealer locator? If there was a dealer close to another VX.info member, maybe they could go to their wheel shop and test fit one of the wheels for you on their VX? (no shipping costs required)

I can't determine if either Viscera or DIP have a manufacturer's website. (That's the makers of my top two wheel choices.)

I like what you did to get the wheels (you wanted) to fit you vehicle. It shows great initiative. But, seriously, how did someone mount and perfectly remove the material necessary? Can a machine shop with a lathe do that? I'd wonder about inducing run-out.

Wasn't it possible to replace the cap screws with some other fastener? Or modify the heads vs. the wheels?

It looks like you made the first 1/4" of the centerbore 10mm larger. Are those 305's something like 100mm (that was so close it just quite didn't fit?) Can't say I've heard of anyone reporting your particular issue!


Tom4bren: Thank you for your response too. You can't weld plastic caps, but I guess you could glue in the correct chromed piece as you describe.

[Y33TREKker]

I can't determine if either Viscera or DIP have a manufacturer's website. (That's the makers of my top two wheel choices.)

I like what you did to get the wheels (you wanted) to fit you vehicle. It shows great initiative. But, seriously, how did someone mount and perfectly remove the material necessary? Can a machine shop with a lathe do that? I'd wonder about inducing run-out.
It depends on what type of lathe you're talking about. My machinist took the route of bolting the wheel to a machining table, getting it centered relative to the vertical cutting tool, then removing the material. The wheel was what remained stationary during the process as opposed to the cutting tool. Not sure what the process is called though. Being initially centered though eliminated the possibility of runout, and at the point my main concern was whether removing material from that area of the wheel would reduce the structural integrity of the wheel itself. Believe me, knowing how much VX's weigh, I actually went so far as to consult a structural engineer friend of mine for consideration of that potential problem. He didn't seem all that concerned with the possibility due to the fact that the area would still be radially sound since it would basically be retaining the same shape.


Wasn't it possible to replace the cap screws with some other fastener? Or modify the heads vs. the wheels?
I did first try to grind down the heads on the allen head bolts, but when you're talking about close to half an inch, there wouldn't have been much left, and no other fasteners I could come up with made up for that much of a difference.


It looks like you made the first 1/4" of the centerbore 10mm larger. Are those 305's something like 100mm (that was so close it just quite didn't fit?) Can't say I've heard of anyone reporting your particular issue!
Actually, the centerbore was always wide enough, so I'm wondering if you're looking at the correct area where the machine work was done.

The material that was removed is not towards the "back" of the centerbore (nearer to the center of the vehicle), it was at the end of the centerbore near the centercap. I've modified the picture I uploaded to indicate where I had the material removed to allow for clearance of the allen head bolts. Once the wheel cleared those bolts, the rest was history.

[tom4bren]

Tom4bren: Thank you for your response too. You can't weld plastic caps, but I guess you could glue in the correct chromed piece as you describe.

Yah, my caps were metal. Plastic would be even easier to work with. Like I mentioned before, just keep the cuts to where they'll be hidden by the rim once installed.

[mdwyer]

I did first try to grind down the heads on the allen head bolts, but when you're talking about close to half an inch, there wouldn't have been much left, and no other fasteners I could come up with made up for that much of a difference.


I just went through this trying to get Enkei GRAB6 wheels mounted.

I removed the allen head bolts and replaced them with regular old hex-head bolts. The first problem was finding the right bolts. The local hardware shops only had 5 of the 12 I needed... and it was only after that I discovered that they were the wrong grade anyway. I was able to find a store that only sells metric fasteners, and they took care of me.

The next problem was getting the factory wheels back on so I could drive back to the tire shop. When they say "100mm bore" they mean it. So I ended up grinding the corners off a few bolts. I'm not proud of it, but I *think* there's still enough metal there to be able to remove them down the line.

It turns out that although the new bolts were significantly shorter, they still just barely touched the new wheels. They ended up grinding off the grade markings. After all that, everything worked.

[89Vette]

Actually, the centerbore was always wide enough, so I'm wondering if you're looking at the correct area where the machine work was done.

The material that was removed is not towards the "back" of the centerbore (nearer to the center of the vehicle), it was at the end of the centerbore near the centercap. I've modified the picture I uploaded to indicate where I had the material removed to allow for clearance of the allen head bolts. Once the wheel cleared those bolts, the rest was history.

I'm guessing I know where you're talking about -- though it did look like there was a 1/4 rim cut into the backside of the centerbore. (Which made me think WTF? LOL)

Can't see your new pic though...I'm guessing you used another name and deleted the old one -- because "LINK NOT FOUND".

[Y33TREKker]

I just replaced the first one with a modified one that had the same file name, and while it shows up if you click the link in my post, it doesn't if you click the link in your post that quoted mine. Seems like lost sock in the dryer stuff to me, but rather than figure it out, easier to just post the pic itself this time.

I'm guessing the machined section at the back of the wheel was for vehicle fitments that required a hub centric ring, but as tom4b mentioned, ours are lug centric.

Anyway, the material I had machined out now allows room around the outsides and the cap ends of the stock allen head bolts on our front hubs.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/DSC01718b1.JPG