HD Torsion Bars: Independent4x.com

[SilverBullet75]

Hi all!

The Heavy Duty VX Torsion Bars are now available again in limited quantity at Independent4x.com!
https://www.independent4x.com/merchantmanager/product_info.php?products_id=86

They have 10 sets left!
(as of 6/22/2012 - 11:45am Pacific time).

I've been on the waiting list since Dec. 2011...
Mine shipped out on Tuesday and should be here early next week!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm so stoked! :clap:

From what I've heard from multiple sources, these are total experience changers for the VX. (up there with mods like the 5-speed swap, V8 swap, etc...) :)
Granted.. they are a little expensive (paid ~$500, shipped to Las Vegas).

GO GET EM!!!
:jump:
---JIM---

[pbkid]

Forgive my ignorance but whats the purpose of them? The vx already has stiff suspension and its not like your going to bend the factory torsion bars. So whats the goal of the upgrade?

[JoFotoz]

x2..


Forgive my ignorance but whats the purpose of them? The vx already has stiff suspension and its not like your going to bend the factory torsion bars. So whats the goal of the upgrade?

I'm intrigued!

Jo

[SilverBullet75]

(Others that have used them, please chime in too...)

From what I understand, especially on VX's that have "springy" suspensions, they really firm them up, and give a much more controlled ride/feel.

Analogy: like upgrading from a minivan to a Chevy 3500.
(+ or -)

They are great for lifted VXs as well.

Here is a link to my previous thread discussing them:

http://vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=21850&highlight=hd+torsion

My motivation for buying them:

The rear of mine is really stiff with the OME 919 springs. But the fronts are so cranked (to match the rear height) that when I hit a bump (like a speed bump), the un-sprung force really slaps hard when it springs... I have to be careful... It's more embarrassing than anything.
I want to match the feel of the rear to the front.

Also, I want upgraded fronts for when I swap to V8.

More info:
http://www.vehicross.info/forums/sho...2&postcount=50

[SilverBullet75]

-

[Buffy]

I installed a set on my race VX yesterday. Very interested to see how much suspension improvement I get out of them. They are VERY beefy bars.

[SilverBullet75]

Awesome! Let me know how you like them!

[JoFotoz]

Thread jack..:eek:

Hey Silver B..you have a PM from days ago.

Let me know!

And now back to your regular sch:thumbup :eduling

Jo

[pbkid]

oh ok i see. that makes sense, except in your case silver. When you hit a speed bump, that 'slapping' your hearing is probably your shocks being maxed out and bottoming out, isnt it?

Stiffer torsion bars are just going to make it slap more often, isnt it?

I guess it would help a lot to ride in a VX before and after to understand.

I'm not trying to hate on your thread or upgrade, i just want to understand why they are worth $500? I mean, generally on a VX, if you are really cranked up for a big lift, your shocls are going to be your limiting point on your front end, not how far the spring will push the a-arms, right?

[SilverBullet75]

Maybe I'm just not describing the "slapping" very well... I'm really not sure HOW to describe it.

Ok, here's another crazy analogy for you:

Remember when we were kids and we used to have "pencil fights"?
One person would pull back tension on a standard #2 pencil, trying to break the opponent's #2 pencil.
You'd have to pull it back with a lot of, and just the right amount of force, so that it would push through the opponent's pencil sharply and quickly... with a "slap".

Now, there was always that one kid that had that one "SPECIAL" pencil... the 1/2" thick pencil he won at the arcade with a bunch of tickets from skee-ball.

When this pencil was pulled back, there was very little bend, a lot more downward thrust, and a much heavier hit.

So, the #2 pencil aggressor = my 14-cranked stock torsion bars.
The 1/2" pencil = the HD torsion bars.
The opponent = the road.

Wow... I come up with the craziest analogies. LOL

[blacksambo]

I think more torsion strength means slower response time. So...you get the bump impulse a bit later upon impact???? Is this good? Don't know, but possibly more cushy ride? (Emulating if you will.... a heavier longer wheel base ride vehicle?) Have to puzzle this out?

[RabidPony]

Think of it as putting a higher rate spring in a sports car. It takes more weight or impact to compress the spring than a standard spring, there by increasing vehicle control by reducing roll, dive, and bounce. When we crank our torsion bars, we are taking them out of their normal range and they don't react the same as at stock ride height due in part to the new higher center of gravity creating a sensation of being undersprung. The HD torsion bars counteract this by making it harder to compress, or bend in the case of torsion bars, the springs when hitting a bump or making a turn. Putting HD torsion bars and equally stiff rear springs on a non lifted, stock VX would cause a very stiff and uncomfortable ride.

I could elaborate further, but that's the gist of it.

[Buffy]

Update: I've been adjusting and tuning my new torsion bars over the past couple days and am very happy with the end result. You have to keep cranking on them to get the spring out of the front end. I am not sure I would intall them if you haven't lifter your truck. I have OME 919 springs on the back which gives me a wheel opening measurement (with 33s) of 38 1/2 inches. With the bars ajusted up front I measure an even 38". I am getting excited to see how it will perform for the next race, looks like there is goint to be a LOT of air time in this one.

[SilverBullet75]

Installed mine this morning in about 1.5 hours! Cleaning the stock parts was the biggest time taker. Easy job...
So far I love them... Only have about 1 mile of use on them though. :)

Buffy, I have the exact setup you have, lift-wise and height measurement-wise. I see now what you mean about needing to take out the springiness.
How did you do so? Are you talking about re-indexing?

[Marlin]

The HD torsion bars counteract this by making it harder to compress, or bend in the case of torsion bars,

FWIW, the torsion bars don't bend, they twist. The spring rate comes from the actual twisting of the steel. That is why when we reindex them, we change how much "pretwist" we put on them, which if you are still stock, when you adjust the ride height by cranking the bolts, you are actually just twisting them a bit more, and that torsion is transferred to the front suspension and tries to push the tire down, in effect lifting the front end up:) Hence the loss of downtravel in the front suspension. We use that potential down travel to lift the front end higher.

What I really want are new rear lower links so I can get rid of my forward rake on the rear axle:(

[RabidPony]

FWIW, the torsion bars don't bend, they twist. The spring rate comes from the actual twisting of the steel. That is why when we reindex them, we change how much "pretwist" we put on them, which if you are still stock, when you adjust the ride height by cranking the bolts, you are actually just twisting them a bit more, and that torsion is transferred to the front suspension and tries to push the tire down, in effect lifting the front end up:) Hence the loss of downtravel in the front suspension. We use that potential down travel to lift the front end higher.

What I really want are new rear lower links so I can get rid of my forward rake on the rear axle:(

Thanks for correcting that. Not sure what I was thinking when I typed it. :bgwb:

[SilverBullet75]

More updates:
I ended up lowering the front by an inch... WORLD of difference.

ABSOLUTELY LOVE THE RIDE OF THE HD TORSION BARS.

I went over a bunch of speed bumps today at maybe 8 mph... fump fump.
Not: BanG! Slam!

Lowering meant a little more cladding "adjustments"... but no biggie (33 in. tires)

My CV shaft angles are now horizontal, with the help of Joe Darlinton's 2 inch diff drops, and the 1 in. lowering.

It now has 38.5 rear height, and 37.5 front. (Ground to top of fender/wheel arch)

[BigSwede]

Stiffer torsion bars will help control the momentum of larger heavier tires on bumps and such.

I just received a set for my Trooper, in part to help carry the weight of the winch I'm about to install.

[SilverBullet75]

Just did my first freeway drive with the new torsion bars...

OMG... they are incredible. Every issue I had since I lifted is now fixed.
No more bump steer, very little nose-dive on braking, BETTER braking, floats over bumps instead of slamming, and it feels like a solid TRUCK now.
I've considered going back to stock height due to the previous ride-experience issues.... NOT ANY MORE!

Some may say that $500 is a lot to spend for these... I say, if you are lifted, this is THE best investment you can make for the comfort and control of your VX.

BigSwede and Buffy,
Please post your post-install experiences as well!
I'd love to hear your thoughts.

---JIM---

[Buffy]

I will report back next week on how the bars did. I have my next race this Saturday at Durhamtown Offroad park in Union Point, GA. This will be a very fast track from what I hear as part of the course is a trophy truck track with lots of jumps, steep descents, climbs, etc. Being this is just my second race I am shooting to finish before time expires and not break the truck. I now have a full roll cage installed, nothing like a little metal courage!! :smilewink

[spaceCADETzoom]

Thinking of buyimg these to carry the weight of a winch/heavier bumper. My issue is the
it feels like a solid TRUCK now. from silverbullet.

One thing I actually miss from the VX before my 912 OME and torsion bar crank was that it drove like a CAR, handled better than an SUV. Less body roll (i don't miss how hard it was over bumpsm, though). So by "truck" do you mean it's a lot more vague, floaty, barge-like? More like an F150...or back more toward like a WRX? Because vague and floaty, that's what trucks drive like, and if that's what these HD Torsion Bars do, I may not want that... I get that it's "better". But by what standard? I don't know if it'll be worth $500. Any more cool adjectives for the difference in the VX post-indy4x torsion bars? THanks.

[tjh]

Thinking of buyimg these to carry the weight of a winch/heavier bumper. My issue is the from silverbullet.

One thing I actually miss from the VX before my 912 OME and torsion bar crank was that it drove like a CAR, handled better than an SUV. Less body roll (i don't miss how hard it was over bumpsm, though). So by "truck" do you mean it's a lot more vague, floaty, barge-like? More like an F150...or back more toward like a WRX? Because vague and floaty, that's what trucks drive like, and if that's what these HD Torsion Bars do, I may not want that... I get that it's "better". But by what standard? I don't know if it'll be worth $500. Any more cool adjectives for the difference in the VX post-indy4x torsion bars? THanks.

What he said ^. I'm waiting for my 913's to arrive. I hope they decrease the body-roll . I'm looking forward to the drop as-well.

[spaceCADETzoom]

I was thinking of getting 913s too. Not really sure I need that extra height in the back; even though I cranked the torsion bars some, I've got a larger rake than I did stock.

[SilverBullet75]

You are totally right about the adjectives... LOL. It's too hard to describe the feeling. I wish you could come drive my VX and make your decision that way. I will say, I agree with Buffy... I don't think it would be good for a stock height VX. It handles the larger tires and lift very well though. The only thing I want to add is a new set of Rancho shocks (adjustable). My stock shocks are a little worn out.

[VXorado]

You are totally right about the adjectives... LOL. It's too hard to describe the feeling. I wish you could come drive my VX and make your decision that way. I will say, I agree with Buffy... I don't think it would be good for a stock height VX. It handles the larger tires and lift very well though. The only thing I want to add is a new set of Rancho shocks (adjustable). My stock shocks are a little worn out.

I might have to get a set. I notice that the IFS doesn't handle to weight of 35s well and especially over bumps. I've been riding a lower tire PSI to make it more tolerable for my daily commute. I always thought the HD torsion bars would make it worse but it seems you had the opposite results...

[LittleBeast]

Silver Bullet, I lowered my VX (took out the 2" spring spacers from Indy4x) by going back to just the OME 912's and I have the diff dropped as well, so the CV's are horizontal, and now with the 35" tires my ground to top wheel arch is a perfect 39" at every corner.

VXorado, after driving the VX with the 35's for less than a full day now I think I agree with too much nose dive while braking and cornering etc, so these HD torsion bars may be next on my purchase list now :-)

Thanks for all the input please keep updating us :-)

[SilverBullet75]

Something that just keyed in my mind is that it is very similar in feel to the 919s. So imagine 919s up front.

[princejazzbo]

So I'm a new vx owner and wanting to do a lift on mine. but seeing all the different springs has the question what kind of difference would i see from the ome 912's which come with most lift kits from independent4x.com vs. getting parts separately and going with the 913's or 919's. i'm only going for a little lift. currently have mickey thompson baja stz tires (265/75R16) which give a decent lift. just want a little more suspension travel when offroading.

[JoFotoz]

Hi PJ.....


So I'm a new vx owner and wanting to do a lift on mine. but seeing all the different springs has the question what kind of difference would i see from the ome 912's which come with most lift kits from independent4x.com vs. getting parts separately and going with the 913's or 919's. i'm only going for a little lift. currently have mickey thompson baja stz tires (265/75R16) which give a decent lift. just want a little more suspension travel when offroading.

...if you work through this thread :-

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=15476

...you should get all the answers you need.

If not..Holler!

Jo

[princejazzbo]

Hi PJ.....



...if you work through this thread :-

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=15476

...you should get all the answers you need.

If not..Holler!

Jo

Thanks, so after reading, i think i like the 919's, since i want the lift but didn't want the spring spacers. with rancho 9000xl shocks. still debating the hd torsion bars though.

[SilverBullet75]

The 919s give a pretty big lift compared to the 912s. Also, 919 is firmer than 912.

[JoFotoz]

I'm surprised at your choice of 919's , unless you carry heavy loads.


Thanks, so after reading, I think I like the 919's, since I want the lift but didn't want the spring spacers. with rancho 9000xl shocks. still debating the hd torsion bars though.

You said in an earlier post you only wanted a little lift, and you'll get about 2 inches with the 913's.
IMO a good match for the tire combo youre thinking of.

No need to buy lift kits.
Fit new coils and crank the T bars to lift front to your desired rake/or level.

Also...IMO you should drive it a bit first before getting HD T bars...
...you're not going really high, or loading lots of rubber on the rims like 35's do.

GLTY..........:_steering

Jo

[Vendetta]

I ordered the Indy4x torsion bars this morning - over the phone to get a better understanding what to expect. I'm optimistic from this thread, as well as what Matt at Indy told me.

FYI, I'm set up on OME 913s, with a stock torsion crank pretty much maxed out in the front. Currently on OEM shocks, getting swapped with Rancho 9000XLs in the coming days. Will post my subjective findings when all's said and done.

Also, he said they have "plenty" left in stock. Not sure how many plenty is though.

-V

[tom4bren]

Law,

I thought about the HD Torsion bar install on my drive home last night (Hey, it's over an hour drive - I have no control over what goes through the grey matter when I'm vegin' out:)).

We could install them during our meet ... but ... you'll need a front end alignment after so I think you'd be better off to get'r done when you aren't facing a 2 hour drive home. Thoughts???

Tom

[Vendetta]

Tom, I agree. Aside from needing the alignment, it would make for a difficult journey home on the off chance something goes wrong during the install. I'll get them done here beforehand.

-V

[vt_maverick]

Also keep in mind that total VX install time = 2 x how long you think it will take.

Right Tom? ;)

[tom4bren]

Also keep in mind that total VX install time = 2 x how long you think it will take.

Right Tom? ;)

I have no response to that.

C'mere & hold this skid plate in place whilst I reposition the jack:):):)

[Vendetta]

Dang, just 2x? You guys work faaast!

[vt_maverick]

I have no response to that.

C'mere & hold this skid plate in place whilst I reposition the jack:):):)

Lol... here hold this bumper cladding while I hack away at it with a razor blade. ;)

[Buffy]

Just remember there is a left and right bar, so don't get that confused. The hardest part will be getting the rear tensioner (or whatever you call it) off the stock bar, at least that has been my experience. After that it is indexing the bar, setting ride height and enjoying!

[VXorado]

I'm interested in your experience V.

The Survey So Far Says:
Silverbullet: :thumbup:
Buffy::thumbup:
Vendetta: :_wrench:

Me: :?:

Wish you guys were closer so I could take a test drive. :yesgray:

[Vendetta]

'Rado my man, unless my rig explodes when I turn the key (not entirely unheard of in NY), then my feedback is going to be nothing but raving.

That's 'cause right now, my rig is an absolutely terrifying experience to drive. 14-year old shocks, maxed out torsion bars, and fresh OME 913s in the rear make for an irresponsibly jarring ride. Slight bumps feel like IEDs. Gentle bends risk being full-on "Tokyo Drifts." It's ridiculous.

So as long as she rolls out from the garage "driveable," then I'll be thoroughly satisfied.

But don't despair. I'll be over it about an hour later, and able to give you a more objective insight as to the results. I've had my VX since 2000, and still recall the test drive - route, speeds, and all. Even the CD I was listening to. Needless to say I'll be repeating that to a T while comparing the current handling with what it was then.

I can't hardly wait!
-V

[VXorado]

I can relate to the "IED" potholes. My ride was terrible last year when I had all suspension lift and maxed out the torsion bars. All is good now with the body lift but the grass is always greener... :D

[Vendetta]

OK, so...

Ordered Monday, arrived today. As in just now.

Oh. My. God. These are some ridiculously beefy bars. The weight on them is so deceiving. I went to pick up the box and it was like, nah, I'll stay right here where I am thank you. Got them inside, took them out to make sure they didn't accidentally send me Thor's hammer instead.

Shocks are supposed to arrive Friday, so Saturday should be the day!

Can't wait.
-V

[princejazzbo]

yeah, they are some seriously beefy bars, just got mine installed with ball joint flip and spacers in the front, with the ome 919 springs and rancho 9000xl shocks. gave me a full three inch lift in the back and matched with a three inch in the front. drives amazing now. still playing with the adjustments on the shocks though.

[princejazzbo]

OK, so...

Ordered Monday, arrived today. As in just now.

Oh. My. God. These are some ridiculously beefy bars. The weight on them is so deceiving. I went to pick up the box and it was like, nah, I'll stay right here where I am thank you. Got them inside, took them out to make sure they didn't accidentally send me Thor's hammer instead.

Shocks are supposed to arrive Friday, so Saturday should be the day!

Can't wait.
-V

and having just finished my lift like two days ago. a word of advice. take a hose to the underside of your vx before you crawl under it and start trying to remove things. i knocked so much dirt in my face it wasn't funny.

[LittleBeast]

I have ordered the 1.5" (1" really) spring spacers to accompany my 912's in the rear because the 2" spacers I have were too much with the 912's and just the 912's is not enough for the 35" tires.

My question is: how do you replace the torsion bars? Has anyone done a write up? And please more feedback on the HD torsion bars, opinions? Will it be worth it with the 35's up front? I have hit the inner fender with the 35's when turning to go up a driveway over 20mph.

Oh and has anyone else got the adjustable lower links yet? They are my favorite lift related purchase because they completely eliminated post lift driveline vibrations, and move the rear tire backwards in the wheel well so there is no concern rubbing in the rear even with 35's :-)

[BigSwede]

They are pretty easy to replace.
Jack up the vehicle by the frame, until the front wheel is off the ground.
'Unscrew' the 27mm torsion bar adjustment bolt all the way and remove. Don't sweat the number of turns, it will be different with the new stiffer torsion bars anyway.
At this point, you want to pull the torsion bar from the front mount of the torsion bar on the control arm. You may have difficulty due to interference from the crossmember at the rear end; if so, loosen the 17mm bolts holding the front mount of the torsion bar on the control arm (might take a breaker bar for this, they are pretty tight in my experience), this will allow you to move the rear end of the torsion bar high enough to clear the crossmember. The front mount is not fastened to the bar, the splined end of the bar just slides into the splined mount.
Pull the adjustment arm off of the old torsion bar, again it is not fastened to the bar but just slides off.
Install is pretty much the reverse of the above process. A few notes:
The new torsion bars should be marked L and R, so pay attention. Check with the maker as to which end goes forward, I forget.
Grease the splined ends of the new torsion bar before install. Doesn't hurt to grease the bearing surface of the half-moon nut also.
'Clock' the adjustment arms up enough to give you enough swing for cranking up to your desired ride height.

[Marlin]

They are pretty easy to replace.
Jack up the vehicle by the frame, until the front wheel is off the ground.
'Unscrew' the 27mm torsion bar adjustment bolt all the way and remove. Don't sweat the number of turns, it will be different with the new stiffer torsion bars anyway.
At this point, you want to pull the torsion bar from the front mount of the torsion bar on the control arm. You may have difficulty due to interference from the crossmember at the rear end; if so, loosen the 17mm bolts holding the front mount of the torsion bar on the control arm (might take a breaker bar for this, they are pretty tight in my experience), this will allow you to move the rear end of the torsion bar high enough to clear the crossmember. The front mount is not fastened to the bar, the splined end of the bar just slides into the splined mount.
Pull the adjustment arm off of the old torsion bar, again it is not fastened to the bar but just slides off.
Install is pretty much the reverse of the above process. A few notes:
The new torsion bars should be marked L and R, so pay attention. Check with the maker as to which end goes forward, I forget.
Grease the splined ends of the new torsion bar before install. Doesn't hurt to grease the bearing surface of the half-moon nut also.
'Clock' the adjustment arms up enough to give you enough swing for cranking up to your desired ride height.

True except one part, we do have bolts at the forward end of the torsion bar. I only have one bolt on one side, it broke when I did the SFIFS install.

[BigSwede]

True except one part, we do have bolts at the forward end of the torsion bar. I only have one bolt on one side, it broke when I did the SFIFS install.

What is it, like a set screw?

[Marlin]

What is it, like a set screw?

Nope. The front of the torsion bar bolts to the lower A arm mount. Not sure on the technical jargon there, but here is a pic:




http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/2012-10-16_16-37-55_186.jpg

[Ldub]

Nope. The front of the torsion bar bolts to the lower A arm mount.

Inside the "thingy", bolted to the "lower control whatzit", are where splines live...:_wrench:

At least that's what I got out of it, using my "Big Swede decoder ring"...:yesgray:

[Marlin]

Inside the "thingy", bolted to the "lower control whatzit", are where splines live...:_wrench:

At least that's what I got out of it, using my "Big Swede decoder ring"...:yesgray:

Damn, I have been calling the "thingy" the wrong word for the last 4 years!!

[BigSwede]

Nope. The front of the torsion bar bolts to the lower A arm mount. Not sure on the technical jargon there, but here is a pic:




http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/2012-10-16_16-37-55_186.jpg

Ah, OK well that configuration is actually what I was trying to describe, pics are much better than words for this...Larry is on the right track - both ends of the torsion bar are splined, and the end of the torsion bar slides into that female splined fitting that is bolted to the control arm. Make sense?

[SilverBullet75]

the whole job takes about an hour total...
:-)

[LittleBeast]

Got my HD torsion bars in the mail last week I should install them tomorrow. Fri night I installed the 1.5" spacers, installed new mounting bracket for rear bumpstops, added length to the lower links, and installed newly rebuilt and LENGTHENED driveshaft. The lengthened driveshaft allows me to lengthen the lower links to avoid all driveline vibrations on the highway without fear of the driveshaft spline coming out when rear suspension is extended.

[Marlin]

Weird, I ordered mine last night, and this morning, I see your post! Coincidence.

[LittleBeast]

Just got done with the install. Super easy. But I don't see how you could do this without removing the two 17mm bolts that hold the torsion bar on the front lower a arm. Easy once everything was loose. Took a 5lb hammer to break the splines from the two attachments.

One weird thing though: I took my time and cleaned all threads super well and greased everything, and now I do not have to lift the VX off the ground to turn torsion bolt and adjust height. Granted it was not super easy but I did not need a breaker bar (my socket is pretty hearty though). I was just turning and adjusting with the VX on the ground and it was raising and lower the VX accordingly down to the 1/4" for every half turn. Once you take everything off and see how it works you will never forget that tighten the bolt will force the lower a arm down. Can't wait to road test.

From ground to top of wheel well I am now:
40" REAR
39-1/4" FRONT

[VXorado]

Just got done with the install. Super easy. But I don't see how you could do this without removing the two 17mm bolts that hold the torsion bar on the front lower a arm. Easy once everything was loose. Took a 5lb hammer to break the splines from the two attachments.

One weird thing though: I took my time and cleaned all threads super well and greased everything, and now I do not have to lift the VX off the ground to turn torsion bolt and adjust height. Granted it was not super easy but I did not need a breaker bar (my socket is pretty hearty though). I was just turning and adjusting with the VX on the ground and it was raising and lower the VX accordingly down to the 1/4" for every half turn. Once you take everything off and see how it works you will never forget that tighten the bolt will force the lower a arm down. Can't wait to road test.

From ground to top of wheel well I am now:
40" REAR
39-1/4" FRONT

Interested to see how they do with the 35s...

[LittleBeast]

Well from the first day of driving I am very impressed and very happy with the outcome. I feel like these should be standard on any lifted VX.

2 main things I have noticed so far:
1) front nose dive while braking is MUCH better now! I did not realize how badly the front end was compressing during braking until the first time I hit the brakes with the new HD bars installed, VX felt so much more stable and in control.
2) front ride quality now matches rear ride quality much better. I overall think this is a very good thing. It was very odd to get a softer bump on the front and then a hard smash on the rear when rolling over something jarring, but now it just feels more natural. These HD torsion bars definitely match the OME springs much better!

[VXorado]

I definitely notice the front end dive during braking

I should probably stop hesitating and buy the HD torsion bars. At this rate, they'll be sold out again by the time I decide to buy them. :slap:

[LittleBeast]

Yeah after driving with them a couple days now, I really think they should be standard if you are in the 33-36" tire range.

[Marlin]

Installed mine today with help from a friend since I had my shoulder surgery 2 weeks ago. It took us 3 hours, but we had some rust issues and the SFIFS kit makes it way more difficult for assembly. I set it up with the front about an inch lower than the rear. CVs are completely level (I installed diff drop a few years ago). Seems stiffer, but I haven't had it out and about yet. I will say that the change in height verse the adjustment nut is much more. I am also SFIFS, so I can't compare to the factory adjustment, but about 1/2 turn on the nut gets me close 3/8" in ride height change. I also noticed that I significantly bent the passenger rear lower link at some point. Like a lot....guess I will have to order the adjustable lowers from indy when tax return comes:( The tabs on the perches are also bent, will have to hammer them out to get the old links off. I will probably add some 1/4" plate the perches to protect them more. I also noticed that she got a good whack on the transfer case skid plate at some point, good thing I added those. Amazing how much you notice while laying under the truck for a few hours.

[VXorado]

Installed mine today with help from a friend since I had my shoulder surgery 2 weeks ago. It took us 3 hours, but we had some rust issues and the SFIFS kit makes it way more difficult for assembly. I set it up with the front about an inch lower than the rear. CVs are completely level (I installed diff drop a few years ago). Seems stiffer, but I haven't had it out and about yet. I will say that the change in height verse the adjustment nut is much more. I am also SFIFS, so I can't compare to the factory adjustment, but about 1/2 turn on the nut gets me close 3/8" in ride height change. I also noticed that I significantly bent the passenger rear lower link at some point. Like a lot....guess I will have to order the adjustable lowers from indy when tax return comes:( The tabs on the perches are also bent, will have to hammer them out to get the old links off. I will probably add some 1/4" plate the perches to protect them more. I also noticed that she got a good whack on the transfer case skid plate at some point, good thing I added those. Amazing how much you notice while laying under the truck for a few hours.


I wonder if the HD torsion bars will limit IFS flex because the stiffer bars won't allow the suspension to compress as much. I'm also curious how the HD torsion bars affect SFIFS... seems like the stiffer suspension would actually transfer the torsion load easier.

[Marlin]

That is a fair question and I would guess that the rate of change will be much faster, not sure if they are so much stiffer that they will limit compression or not. I do have shaved bump stops. Next I will remove the rear sway bar and install retainers for the springs. My springs have been installed upside down for 4 years, so I may have to flip them over to put any kind of retainer in there. We shall see. We have URE run in April, although I never pull the pin on any of those trails, maybe I can do some comparisons.

[Ldub]

FWIW...:_thinking

The approximate change in spring rate sounds significant to me.

A full turn on the adjustment nut with stock bars = about 1/4" of lift VS
1/2 turn with the HD bars = about 3/8", which should be about 3/4" at a full turn...:_wrench:

By way of the limited comparative info, that sounds like close to 3 times the torsional resistance.

When linked to an equally resistant "spring", by way of the SFIFS...:_confused

[Marlin]

FWIW...:_thinking

The approximate change in spring rate sounds significant to me.

A full turn on the adjustment nut with stock bars = about 1/4" of lift VS
1/2 turn with the HD bars = about 3/8", which should be about 3/4" at a full turn...:_wrench:

By way of the limited comparative info, that sounds like close to 3 times the torsional resistance.

When linked to an equally resistant "spring", by way of the SFIFS...:_confused

That would seem to make it more stable as well. I dunno. There is a...gulp...Jeep dealership here in my area that has a club and they have ramps they use for owners to test flex and whatnot. It may be worth a trip for me just to make them look silly as well as gather some tangible empirical data.

[Marlin]

In relation to the change in height vs the turns on the adjuster. The adjusting bolt is a 1.25.inch bolt. Thr stock one was 22 or 24 mm iirc. I don't know if we can really compare the two as far as rate of change.

[Triathlete]

Real "super flexy" suspension :D...
http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s720x720/537534_10151234588588393_1553167817_n.jpg

[Ldub]

In relation to the change in height vs the turns on the adjuster. The adjusting bolt is a 1.25.inch bolt. Thr stock one was 22 or 24 mm iirc. I don't know if we can really compare the two as far as rate of change.

That'd depend on pitch (TPI)

[Marlin]

That'd depend on pitch (TPI)

Also true, but the way it adjusts is completely different than the factory setup. The adjusting bolt on the SFIFS is a direct connection meaning it is perpendicular to the torsion bar coupling. There are no angles involved so I think the actual distance the torsion bar is moved per thread is higher than with the OEM setup. It is also a gigantic PITA since it is adjusted with a wrench vice a socket. 1/16-1/8" of a turn at a time. A 2" body lift would help a lot:)
I didn't do any comparisons with the OEM bars. I know that my passenger side bar was way "looser" than the driver's side. Seemed odd to me and I cannot fathom why, but it was what it was.

[vxcp]

Okay, so I have very little time on the HD torsion bars to date, but my initial opinion of them is very good. The Vx nose dive is greatly attenuated and they seem to alleviate my bump steer issues. Truck is driving more akin to the way things were before the lift and before the steel front bumper. Will report back once I've got more time on them.

[eternal21]

Okay, so I have very little time on the HD torsion bars to date, but my initial opinion of them is very good. The Vx nose dive is greatly attenuated and they seem to alleviate my bump steer issues. Truck is driving more akin to the way things were before the lift and before the steel front bumper. Will report back once I've got more time on them.

Excellent! Did you do the install?

[bartmanS4]

Okay, so I have very little time on the HD torsion bars to date, but my initial opinion of them is very good. The Vx nose dive is greatly attenuated and they seem to alleviate my bump steer issues. Truck is driving more akin to the way things were before the lift and before the steel front bumper. Will report back once I've got more time on them.

Where are the pics and info on this steel bumper eh?

[vxcp]

Excellent! Did you do the install?

No, had a mechanic help with that. Don't have a press and didn't want to get stuck halfway through the swap.

[vxcp]

Where are the pics and info on this steel bumper eh?

I've been meaning to write something on that... Will get a post up. :)