Engine Rebuilders....Opinions?

[MSHardeman]

As you may have read in another thread, my VX is going to need a new engine. The shop that I took the VX to to have the cylinder leak test done quoted me close to $9,500 to replace the engine. Granted, he was looking with only his "trusted" vendors, and only looked for like five minutes. He said that they usually don't install parts that customers bring in themselves, because they have no idea how good the parts are, or where they have been, but he said that in this case he would work with me if I could find an engine for the VX.

I think my best bet would be to go with a remanufactured/rebuilt engine. If I get a used engine I would have no idea how well it was cared for before I got it, and it may still have the same oil burning issue that my engine currently has. Hopefully, with a rebuilt engine, the oil burning issue will be taken care of due to the new rings and pistons that they use to rebuild it.

SO, for those of you who have had your engine rebuilt, or have bought rebuilt engines, let me have your opinions on shops to start looking at. I've done some poking around on the internets and have come up with a few places:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/140629962192?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648

http://www.123engine.com/isuzu1.php

http://www.powertrainproducts.net/ISUZU-3-5-V6-6VE1-8-97-03-ENGINE-p/9.htm

http://www.gearheadengines.com/CrateEngines

So far I'm liking Powertrain Products and Gearhead Engines because they are offering four year/million mile and three year/unlimited mile warranties respectively. Sounds like they are confident in their work.

Let me know if you have anyone else I should look at, or if you have any opinions/experience with any of the companies above.

Thanks y'all!!

[MSHardeman]

TTT....Anyone?

Also wanted to let y'all know that I just talked to Merlin at St. Charles and he said that the Isuzu warehouse is showing 22 new 3.5L 6VE1 engines in stock. With our 10% (or is it 15%?) discount the price is $6490 with free shipping.

WOOHOO!!! Free shipping!! I'm ordering two right now.:dance:






Not really....:rolleyes:

[djvx]

TTT....Anyone?

Also wanted to let y'all know that I just talked to Merlin at St. Charles and he said that the Isuzu warehouse is showing 22 new 3.5L 6VE1 engines in stock. With our 10% (or is it 15%?) discount the price is $6490 with free shipping.

WOOHOO!!! Free shipping!! I'm ordering two right now.:dance:






Not really....:rolleyes: Not Really $6490?

[atilla_the_fun]

So,
What you should do is buy a 1997-1999 Rav-4 for about 4k in decent shape and use that as a daily driver. Then look for 2001 troopers or Acura SLXs on CL and the like that are around 1k-2k. Use their engine and part out the rest to recoup the cost.
Sell the Rav-4 for about 4k (because Toyotas retain their values very very well).

I can't see the logic in installing a brand new engine in a 10 year old car, especially since even the new engine will leave you with the same "will I suddenly run dry of oil" feeling as the original one. It seems like your issue wasn't oil related, but it is something that worries every VX driver.

OR: 6K buys you a used VX. Part it out but keep the engine, reduce your loss that way.

[atilla_the_fun]

Actually, if you bring it to the shop in MD that did that V8 conversion - I bet they could bring the price down, given they would know exactly what to do a second time around.

[evillecutter]

for $6500 just buy another vx and sell (or use) yours for parts - could prob make a sizable chunk of your money back

[MSHardeman]

Not Really $6490?

No it's really $6490. Not really ordering two.....or even one for that matter.

[MSHardeman]

Due to the price, and the possible oil burning issues, I am not going to go with a new engine from Isuzu. After talking to Merlin, he said that these are new engines that were built when all of the other ones were built so they could have the same issues as our engines have. I know some of our engines don't burn a drop of oil, but others, like mine, burn a LOT of oil. Even though I stayed on top of the oil consumption I was always looking over my shoulder, so to speak, just waiting for the day that the engine would let go.

I have thought about buying a daily driver while I wait for the VX to get fixed, but any money that I use to buy the daily driver would take away from the money that I would be able to spend replacing the engine in the VX, so she would just sit around, broken, and what good would that do me.

I've also thought about buying another VX and either using it's engine, or using it as mine, but I just can't see driving another VX. I know it sounds crazy, but this VX is MINE and I don't want another one unless it's a second one in addition to mine. Getting a VX and using it's engine, or any used engine, seems iffy to me. I would have no idea how well that engine was taken care of and who knows if it would have the same oil burning issues that mine has. A used engine might have sat in a salvage yard for a while, and goodness knows what it has been through.

A remanufactured engine seems, to me, to be the best way to go because it has been stripped down, all of the surfaces have been checked and re-machined, and new pistons, rings, rods, bearings, etc. have been used to re-build it. The new pistons and rings would, hopefully, take care of the oil burning issue, and most of the good remanufactured engines come with a three year (or more) unlimited milage warranty.

atilla, I really have thought long and hard about the issue that you bring up; why put a new engine in a twelve year old car? Is it really worth it? I keep coming back to, yes, it's worth it to me. The rest of the VX is well taken care of. I've replaced/repacked bearings on a regular basis, replaced brake pads, rotors and flex lines, replaced shocks, and have generally babied it. There isn't any structural rust anywhere, and the rust bubble that I can see are up on the roof under the roof rails, but that can be easily taken care of. The only iffy mechanical issue (after the engine) would be the transmission, but it has never even sneezed in over 130,000 miles. Maybe that means it's due to have a major mechanical, but others have gone longer and been harder on their original transmissions with no problems.

I really can't imagine driving anything else, although I know that day will have to come eventually. Right now, though, I still enjoy driving the VX and even after eight years of ownership I still get a big smile on my face everytime I see it.

[DrewsiferxXx]

9,500? were they going to fabricate the entire engine from scratch?


an engine removal and re-install shouldn't run much over a grand. (in fact that is a little high IMO)

I would look else where. (or do what I would actually do and do the r/r myself, but that's not for everybody)

[MSHardeman]

Most of that $9,500 was the engine. I think the mechanic was looking at new engines because the price he quoted for the engine was just about the same as the price that Merlin quoted me for the new Isuzu engine.

I think he had +/-$1700 to do the engine swap, but said that he had added $500 to that for any unforseen issues that he might run into, so hopefully the swap wouldn't cost that much. I know that still sounds high, and this is sort of a lame excuse, but I do live in the Aspen valley where EVERYTHING costs more than it should for no real reason other than it's Aspen.

I was actually thrilled to find a local mechanic that would be willing to do the swap because I thought that I was going to go two to three hours to another city to have it done.

As much as I would like to do the swap myself, I think that it is just outside of my abilities and available tools. Hopefully the mechanic will let me get in there with him because I would love to get my hands dirty and see how an engine swap is done.

[circmand]

Used engine from VX $2700. All their prices seem high but they will dicker. They wanted $4500 for the whole non-running wrecked VX

[DrewsiferxXx]

1200 isn't that bad for the job.
try www.car-part.com for engines.
not sure how hard it is to source an engine for such a rare beast...

won't a honda passport or isuzu axiom engine fit? or something similar?

edit
and after looking I see how pricey the engines are.
wow

[atilla_the_fun]

Actually, the 3.2L from the rodeo has been shown to fit (on this forum) and does not have the same oil burning issues as the Trooper/SLX/VX 3.5L.

You could do a quick search on that engine. Even with the slight loss of power, its almost worth it given the lack of oil consumption on the 3.2L.

[MSHardeman]

DrewsiferxXx, we do share an engine with the Rodeo, Trooper, Honda Passport, Acura SLX, and an '02-'03 Isuzu Axiom. They are all the 6VE1 engine block, and I have found a bunch of used ones online. I'm just leary of used engines because you never know how they were taken care of or what they have been through. I figure if I'm going to do this then I might as well go with a rebuilt/remanufactured engine because it will have been gone through by a shop and rebuilt with new parts. The theory is that some of our engines burn oil because of the rings that Isuzu used. I've also heard some noise about the oil drain holes (I think) in the pistons being too small and too few. Hopefully, the rings and pistons that they would use to rebuild the engine would take care of the oil burning issue.

atilla_the_fun, the 3.2L is an option and has been shown to drop right into the VX. I think the rest of the world's VX's have the 3.2L and from what I understand, our 3.5L is just a stroked version of the 3.2L. Heck, right now being down a cylinder I am running a 2.9L engine and she still has some get up and go. Living in the mountains, and with the VX being so heavy, I think I'm going to stick with the 3.5L because I would never make it up and over some of the mountain passes without it. As stated above, I think (or is it I'm hopeful) that a rebuilt engine would also take care of the oil burning issue due to the use of better rings and pistons. If I'm way off base on that assumption please let me know.

Thanks for all of the opinions and suggestions so far.

[rsteinmetz70112]

There was a company selling new short blocks on ebay for $1500, there is a listing right now for a long block reman for $2,000.

[atilla_the_fun]

Hopefully, the rings and pistons that they would use to rebuild the engine would take care of the oil burning issue.


I don't believe that there is any evidence that rebuilt engines don't burn oil, or rather- as much oil as the original engines (given that there is such a variation between members here). You should really contact forum members to get a better idea of what really is going on.

Also, unless you will be towing a 5000lb boat up those mountain passes, even a 2L, four cylinder engine could power the VX up most american mountain roads - this isn't 1945, and the VX doesn't need 215HP to travel through that kind of terrain.

[circmand]

Also, unless you will be towing a 5000lb boat up those mountain passes, even a 2L, four cylinder engine could power the VX up most american mountain roads - this isn't 1945, and the VX doesn't need 215HP to travel through that kind of terrain.

I used to have an Isuzu Amigo which was a fun little Jeep like vehicle. But when going up hills in PA with the little 4 banger engine and manual transmission I had to get up speed before the hill and in the semi truck lane as it slowed down and people wanted to pass.

[Gizmo42]

Also, unless you will be towing a 5000lb boat up those mountain passes, even a 2L, four cylinder engine could power the VX up most american mountain roads - this isn't 1945, and the VX doesn't need 215HP to travel through that kind of terrain.

You would think so but the passes here top out at 11-12k feet so that alone drops your power by up to 40%. Then figure in the runs up them can be 10 miles of 6-8% grade all up hill with 65 mph speed limit and you need power to get up them unless you want to follow the big trucks all the way up at 10mph.


Actually, the 3.2L from the rodeo has been shown to fit (on this forum) and does not have the same oil burning issues as the Trooper/SLX/VX 3.5L.

The DOHC 3.2 (which is the non stroked 3.5) also has oil burning issues. Isuzu considers 1 qt per 1k miles normal but I've seen them burn much more. Mine burned 1 qt per 3k miles most of the time I've had it but the last couple years its started to guzzle it.

[H3_VX]

And i'm back to the question of, "if Isuzu knew their engines were the worst in the entire market, why wouldn't they attempt to remedy the problem instead of continuing with garbage?" It just flabbergasts me that a company would have a ho-hum attitude to their obvious mechanical blunders.

[tom4bren]

And i'm back to the question of, "if Isuzu knew their engines were the worst in the entire market, why wouldn't they attempt to remedy the problem instead of continuing with garbage?" It just flabbergasts me that a company would have a ho-hum attitude to their obvious mechanical blunders.

Prolly a liability thang. If they admitted that there was a problem, then they would have had to issue a recall & lost mucho dinero.

[evillecutter]

And i'm back to the question of, "if Isuzu knew their engines were the worst in the entire market, why wouldn't they attempt to remedy the problem instead of continuing with garbage?" It just flabbergasts me that a company would have a ho-hum attitude to their obvious mechanical blunders.

cause they still have plenty of 13 year old engines to sell for $6500! (which im assuming is a $5k engine and $1500 "free shipping")

[H3_VX]

cause they still have plenty of 13 year old engines to sell for $6500! (which im assuming is a $5k engine and $1500 "free shipping")

yup, thats why if my engine ever fails i'll be doing a swap. hopefully in the next several years i'll have all GM mechanicals.

[Gussie2000]

The truth is that isuzu 3.2 & 3.5L are between the worst engines that any jap automaker ever built.

Even brand-new these engine came with a very lousy noise,which to me was a time bomb just waiting to go BOOM.

Plus 215hp for the weight of the VX was just not enough.

The 2001 nissan pathfinder with their 3.5L produces 240hp. and definately well built,strong and much less issues than isuzu's 3.5L

Many people say that the VX's interior was a huge dissapointment,but as far as i can see the really dissapointment is this engine.

[FlyingV77]

my rebuilt, bored stoked, cost 7500 installed. with a warranty

[Gizmo42]

And i'm back to the question of, "if Isuzu knew their engines were the worst in the entire market, why wouldn't they attempt to remedy the problem instead of continuing with garbage?" It just flabbergasts me that a company would have a ho-hum attitude to their obvious mechanical blunders.

Controlling interest at the time was GM, thats why.

[rsteinmetz70112]

my rebuilt, bored stoked, cost 7500 installed. with a warranty

But does it burn oil?

[tjh]

So far the used motor that I purchased which has the updated pistons has not shown any oil burn... Other than while in Moab it showed a wee bit low. It could have been the angle that I was parked at when I checked it, or may be some oil was dumped into the intake while off-road at some silly angle .

I pushed it rather hard on the way home from Utah. Some 1300+ miles(I made a little detour through Colorado) one way with no noticeable change in oil level. Still driving it without any detectable changes in oil level.


So far so good. I hope it stays this way.

[Gizmo42]

Here is some info from Jerry about oil burning and freshening up a used 3.2. He is legally blind so always types all caps, he's not yelling.



OK ,LETS GIVE IT SHOT, FIRST OFF THERE ARE PLENTY OF THOSE ENGS THAT DO NOT USE OIL, BUT MOST ARE PRONE TO AFTER ABOUT 60.000 ,MILES, USUALLY TRACED BACK TO A FAULTY EGR
VLV , THANK YOU GM, ALLSO ISUZU , BECAUSE OF THE DESIGN OF THE ENG IN 98 AND LATER HAD VERY SHORT PISTONS , ISUZU FELT THERE WAS NOT ENOUGH ROOM ON THE PISTON SKIRT TO CUT A SLOT FOR OIL DRAIN BACK, LIKE ON THE 92-97ENGS , THEY DO NOT HAVE OIL DRAIN BACK HOLES BEHIND THE RINGS , THEY HAD A LARGE CUT OUT IN THE PISTON THAT GOES ABOUT 1/3 AROUND ON EACH SIDE OF THE THRUST SIDE , SO THEY DRILLED 2 OIL DRAIN BACK HOLES IN THE PISTON RING LAND ON EACH SIDE OF THE PISTON, THINKING THIS WOULD BE OK AND IT WAS IF YOU KEPT THE CORRECT TYPE OF OIL AND CHANGED IT LIKE IT SHOULD BE, SO NOW WE HAVE TWO PROB AREA,S OIL DRAIN AND EGR , AND THAT WAS EASILY FIXED , GM REDESIGNED THE EGR VLV ,

ISUZU FIXED THE PISTONS BY DRILLING 2 MORE HOLES IN EACH RING LAND , PISTONS ARE ABOUT IDENTICAL, THE RING EXPANDER WAS REDESIGNED ALL SO , SO THE WAVY PART IS NOT SO CLOSE TOGETHER, , NOW THE PROB IS FIXED , I WOULD HOWEVER USE NOTHING BUT THE ROTELLA 5-40 DSL GRADE ENG OIL , IT WILL KEEP THE ENG CLEANER THAN ABOUT ANY OTHER OIL , AND YOU WILL PROB SEE ABOUT 25 OTHER [POSTS CONCERNING WHICH OIL IS BEST FOR THAT ENG, ON THAT ACCOUNT ALL I CAN SAY IS THERE ARE OTHER GOOD OILS ON THE MARKET , THIS ONE IN FACT DOES WORK, BUT IT CAN NOT CREATE MIRACLES , IF THE RING LAND ARE ALL READY CARBONED FILLED NO OIL WILL CUT IT LOOSE COMPLETELY, BUT THE ROTELLA WILL CLEAN MOST OF IT OVER A PERIOD OF TIME , NOW CAN YOU FIX THE USED ENG , YES BUT THE PISTONS WILL HAVE TO BE REMOVED , REMOVE THE RINGS AND DRILL TWO HOLES IN THE BOTTOM RING LAND , ON EACH SIDE OF THE PISTON , THEY ARE ABOUT 1.5 MM DIA, AT THE MOST , AND YOU CAN DO IT , IF CARE FULL WITH A HAND DRILL AND A SUPPORT TO HOLD THE PISTONS, JUST DRILL THEM IN THE SAME PLANE AS THE ONES THAT ARE THERE , BUT EVENLY SPACED TOWARD THE THRUST SIDE OF THE PISTONS , THEN PUT IN A NEW SET OF RING S AND KEEP THE PISTONS IN THE SAME HOLE IT CAME OUT OFF, THEY A RE SIZED INDIVIDUALLY WHEN NEW ,

[djvx]

No it's really $6490. Not really ordering two.....or even one for that matter.
Take out a loan and pay it off gradually, probably what I'd do.

[djvx]

Actually, the 3.2L from the rodeo has been shown to fit (on this forum) and does not have the same oil burning issues as the Trooper/SLX/VX 3.5L.

You could do a quick search on that engine. Even with the slight loss of power, its almost worth it given the lack of oil consumption on the 3.2L.
I know of a Rodeo that wasnt really maintained that well but has nearly 300,000 miles on it. Its has had a very hard life but is still ticking.
I really wish I knew if I am going to be one of the lucky ones and my vx engine will last for 200k. Like someone said earlier--its always there in the back of my mind. But, even more aggravating is not knowing what the best solution is once it does blow up. In a perfect world I would choose a 3.2 Rodeo engine with low miles and go that route I guess.

[MSHardeman]

Take out a loan and pay it off gradually, probably what I'd do.

That is what I will be looking at this weekend. Seems a better way to go than putting it on a credit card.

I'm still leary of used engines. It sounds like Travis hasn't had a problem with his, but knowing my luck, I would get a low milage used engine that would immediately start burning oil and I would be driving around on pins and needles again just wondering when the motor would let go. I know rebuilt/remanufactured motors are more expensive, sometimes twice as expensive as a used motor, but having a warranty with the rebuild will sure put my mind at ease.

[MSHardeman]

I know of a Rodeo that wasnt really maintained that well but has nearly 300,000 miles on it. Its has had a very hard life but is still ticking.
I really wish I knew if I am going to be one of the lucky ones and my vx engine will last for 200k. Like someone said earlier--its always there in the back of my mind. But, even more aggravating is not knowing what the best solution is once it does blow up. In a perfect world I would choose a 3.2 Rodeo engine with low miles and go that route I guess.

It's really hard to tell what you're going to get with these engines. Some don't burn a drop of oil, and others, like mine, burn a LOT. Since I bought mine seven or eight years ago with 35,000 miles on it, it has burned 3/4 of a quart of oil every 350 miles or so. With that kind of consumption I guess it was really just a matter of time until something happened, but I babied that thing. It rarely ever saw 3500 rpm's, I checked and topped off the oil religiously, had the oil changed at regular intervals, and had the PCV replaced and EGR and throttle body cleaned every other oil change. I guess mine was just destined to do this.

Like you said, I have always driven around with the possibility of the engine letting go in the back of my mind. The radio was always low so I could hear every little noise that was coming from the VX.

It seems to be hit or miss on these things. Like your Rodeo example, some people will hammer on these things and they'll last forever, and others will tip-toe around with them and they'll blow at 60,000 miles.:_confused

[IndianaVX]

Just curious. I am ready to call and order my new remanufactured engine from gearhead engines. I am identical to MS. I dont want the uneasyness of driving around with a used engine that i know nothing about, or how it was treated ect. gearhead offers a 3 year, unlimited miles warranty, which also includes paying labor for any shop that has to make a repair. Also, with their warranty, it does not matter what other parts you replace along with the new engine install, and does not matter who you have install it. it could be yourself, or a shop...doesnt matter. And also, many new engines require that all kinds of new pieces (alternator, AC compressor, starter, ect) be installed with the new engine. Not with this motor from gearhead. If i purchase tommorrow, they have a 10% discount, which brings the price to 2879, after the core charge is returned to me....(3389 - 510 core). this also includes free shipping both ways. engine is shipped in a heavy duty sealed plastic cratebox, which is returned with my old engine in it. Talked to the guy a good 15 minutes about the oil burning issue, and the rings and oil return holes in the pistion ring seats, and he told me that he believed that the issue would be taken care of as they update with all the TSBs and any improvements that can be found to produce a bettter than OEM motor. I feel better about this motor from gearhead, than i did with 123engines. so, unless my local racecar engine rebuilder comes back with a better price for rebuilding my existing motor, i will be going with Gearhead.

All that said, What did you finally decide to to MSHardman? I am hoping your reply is that you went with gearhead, and as very happy with your decision!:bwgy::bwgy::bwgy:

Thanks!!

[MSHardeman]

The deal from Gearhead engines sounds fantastic! The price is great, the warranty, the free shipping, the fact that you can add whatever you want to the engine, etc., etc., etc. almost sounds too good to be true. I wish that I would have looked into this a little more when I had my engine replaced. I would jump all over this engine if I were you. Heck, I may contact them and see if I can send them my old engine to have them re-build it.

I actually ended up going with a brand new Isuzu crate motor that I bought through Jerry Lemond (he visits here occasionally and is a big presence over on the Planet). He used to work for Isuzu and still has some connections with the warehouses. The engine that I bought has the updated pistons and I have not burned a drop of oil in the two years that the engine has been in the VX. I did document my experiences with the engine swap, but I can't seem to find the thread right now (I'll look and post it later).

Sounds like you found a great option to a $5k Isuzu engine, plus I don't know if you can still find the new engines as when I bought mine there were only 16 left in the country.

Keep us updated because our engines won't last forever and others may be looking for replacement options in the future.