Transmission Rebuild in Progress: I'm in the really school now for VX OWNERS! WANTED!

[CowboyErik]

UPDATE! At 4 YEARs after REBUILD, I am GOOD! Made it to 2016 on good rebuild of our General Motors stock tranny!

old post:

I'm in the real school now! I have a shop here in Fairfield, Ohio, Cincinnati area really, GREAT PEOPLE! Had me out and apart in 8 hours! Flat rate rebuild price with warranty just $1250, max $1500!

I've learned some things, first, we all, and I mean ALL have transmissions that are really rated to run a CHEVY CHEVET!!!!!!!! Yes, that little economy box car that no longer exists. Why do I say that, well, cause our transmissions only difference is the OVERDRIVE! Else they are the SAME! Would you TOW a car or boat with a Chvey Chevet? Hell no! but would you run 4 wheel drive! omg, bigger NO.

My CASE to my transmission is actually damaged and I need a replacement CASE to put the guts back in at my shop, there is a worn input shaft that runs off the flywheel that has worn a groove in the case and it can't be BORED!! SOOOO the actual case is ruined at 129,000!!!!.

Conclusion so far, before this happens to you, everyone needs to REBUILD their transmission nearly at the SAME INTERVAL as we do TIMING BELTS!! Getting a master rebuild kit installed is more important that the timing belt!!!

THIS IS NO JOKE! There is a reason so many of us are having tranny problems, AND we don't know why. The General Motors 4L30E was never designed for HEAVY DUTY service of ANY KIND let alone 4 wheel drive all the time! 2WD at most on a light car/chasis! I mean never! It is not rated for that; we WILL all lose our transmission soon, everyone, no matter what year we have. Rebuilds must be performed using master rebuild kits by 75K, no later in my opinion OR you will have the nitemare I am having! Engine failure poll? We need a tranny faillure tracking poll! It's gonna be HUGE!!! We Need salvage yard tranny's just to get a case, anyone who did towing will likely need a case replacement in addition to the master rebuild kit! Speaking of that:

DOES ANYONE HAVE a spare bad transmission that I can gut for the case? I need the case that bears the MADE IN FRANCE logo!!! Please Help! I'm at my limit physically and mentally! I will post a picture of the defective case; I am at the shop here in fairfield daily taking images of everything; my 3rd crossmember broke ALL the bolts on the passenger side taking it off! You won't believe it!!

[Triathlete]

A quick look will show that the chevette DID NOT have the same tranny as our VX.
Our tranny is however shared with BMW and a few other rear wheel drive vehicles. Because a tranny is of the same type does not mean they are the same. The internals can be very different...gearing, different clutch packs, regular or beefed up parts, etc.
The price on your rebuild seems to be pretty good though.

[CowboyErik]

Yep, the Chevette economo box was a 3 spead, it was the precursor to the 4L30E, it's was explained to me, and shown in a static museum display; I was shocked; I will photograph; the same base tranny evolved to be used in other vehicles; at the truck level, the addistion of the small forward pain thats easy to come off was added amd this gave the 4th gear; so I don't mean the GM 4L30E was in Chevettes, it was not, but the successors of the base tranny are what we now have; electrical controls and, over drive where added; and some things that should have been beefed up for 4WD were not, and thats where our premature failure occurs; overhauls should be done at 75K; or, more expensive parts not in a Master OverHaul kid are needed such as the ENTIRE OUTTER CASING!!!!!! How has a tranny that I can gut for the case! Help!

[Triathlete]

I am pretty sure that if you look through past post on trans failures most were feom lack of maintenance. My trans has been abused severely off road as have many others without problems. As I said the 4L30 trans has been used in many cars including BMWs. Are there stronger trans? Yes. But for the torque and HP our engines generate the trans is up to the job.

[vt_maverick]

There is a reason so many of us are having tranny problems, AND we don't know why. The General Motors 4L30E was never designed for HEAVY DUTY service of ANY KIND let alone 4 wheel drive all the time! 2WD at most on a light car/chasis! I mean never! It is not rated for that; we WILL all lose our transmission soon, everyone, no matter what year we have.

Epic failure to use the search function if this is really a new discovery for you. And I whole-heartedly disagree with the need to rebuild the transmission every 75K miles; that's just nuts IMHO. Perform transmission maintenance according to the more aggressive recommended schedule and then rebuild when needed. There are a lot of folks on this site who have gone much farther than 75K before needing a rebuild (and many still don't need them at double your recommended miles or more). You're talking a ton of unnecessary expense. Can you imagine if deermagnet, at nearly 300K miles, was about to do his 4th rebuild?

[tom4bren]

Erik,

I don't want to complain about your tranny shop since they seem to be working with you quite well, but ...

Maybe they need to think outside the box a little.

There's absolutely no reason that your tranny case couldn't be salvaged if it's just a matter of sealing where the input shaft enters the tranny.

You said that it can't be bored ... but does it really need to be???

That shaft did NOT exit the tranny case without a bushing or a sealed bearing (hardened steel shaft spinning in a cast opening wouldn't last 100 miles). My guess would be that it is a steel clad babbet bushing that is really the damaged part. Unfortunately, there probably isn't a source for an exact replacement. That doesn't mean that you are SOL though. They should be able to find a brass bushing with the correct ID and machine the OD to make it fit. If the bushing requires an oil groove to keep the shaft surface lubricated, then that can be cut with a dremmel.

I'm not just pulling this out of the blue. That's the EXACT same thing I went through on a '87 Samurai I used to have. Granted that we are talking the difference between an automatic and a manual transmission but the input shaft seal doesn't care about that. BTW, I got another 150K miles out of that tranny after my "fix".

Another BTW: The Suzuki shop manual (mine nor the dealer's) even showed that there was a bushing there. The MFR recommended solution was a tranny case replacement. Suzuki wasn't interested in what I proposed to them as the solution since there was already an upgrade to better bearings internal to the tranny that caused the bushing to go bad.

[JAMAS]

what shop did you take it to?

[VX KAT]

Erik-
This is an active group of MANY obssessed owners.....many of whom are actual wrenchers.
Many know the history, details, lineage and provenance of every single part/component of this truck. It just doesn't make any logical sense that your mechanic has just discovered some new, unknown info about the tranny in this 11-14 year old vehicle.

They've taken apart/repaired/replaced/adjusted/modified/broken/bled on/changed etc...many of the major components of the truck, like the engine and tranny.
With the VAST amount of experienced people on this forum, who know this truck forward and backwords, do you really think NONE of them would have commented on this tranny issue before?

Like Tom said, I don't mean to question your tranny shop, but I'm 100% certain the many experienced wrenchers on this forum, know the VX far better than the guy you're dealing with.

[MsConduct]

Hi all... so glad I came across this thread here! Seems that my tranny needs a rebuild now. When it went out, I was not able to get the truck to an Isuzu mechanic, but did manage to limp it to the mechanic who works on my other car. He specializes in BMWs and MBs, but has also done a few things for other vehicles in the family.

Anyway, when he gave me the line about knowing all about the VX tranny because it is so much like the one in the BMWs, I thought maybe he was just saying that so that I would pay him to fix it, rather than tow it to someone else. I had a feeling it was going to be a hefty bill.

I am thrilled to see that he wasn't just pulling my leg on this! And feel much better now about possibly having him do it. (Otherwise I need to tow it about 50 miles or more to a dealer-based shop. Ugh.)

So, that said... what is a fair price for this project? I'm in So Cal where things are usually a bit more expensive, but would like to hear other's ideas...

Thanks!

[blacksambo]

Erik, I think Isuzu is a great truck company, and they would not have risked their reputation on a bad tranny on a halo vehicle like the VX. Too much was at stake. Granted, a manual shift would have been a better choice for off road use but for all- round performance the OEM automatic was just about right, and I have 158K on my Astral with barely a hiccup. Maybe switching to synthetic helped me, but still, 75k interval rebuilding seems a bit excessive.

[Triathlete]

ANY auto trans will fail when ran without fluid.

[PK]

What he said. ^^^^^^^^^

x2.


PK

[MsConduct]

Soooo.... what is a "reasonable" amount to spend on a rebuild? What about a trans from a salvage yard or something? Any ideas? I just spent over $600 to get the stupid window regulators and door locks fixed... :-(

[Triathlete]

MsC...you should PM JoFoto. He is down in your area and had a guy who did one of his trannys. I don't recall the price but to me it seemed quite reasonable. He even had an option with heavy duty clutches and bands.

[Marlin]

Hmmm, I agree with some and disagree with others. The 4l30E is definitely insufficient for the Zu family. We are right at the max of the torque rating for the tranny. That means any mods or agressive driving run a high risk of failure. I had my maintenance done by Isuzu at 100Kish miles. Less than 2K miles later, total failure. I feel that if I had left it alone, and it was bone stock at that point, it would have been fine. I got a yard tranny out of a trooper with 89K miles. I am now at 140K, no problems.
When I did the swap, the mechanic looked and thought that a 4l60E would fit with minor mods. We did not go that route, I only had 2 vehicles then and couldn't wait. I am curious if that would be a viable solution.
FWIW, the tranny in my wife's RS (same as ours, only the older version with a dipstick), it was $50 at a picnpull all you can carry. It does have occasional issues with hard shifting, but for 50 bucks, I am ok with that. I would try local yards first, then go for a rebuild. Feel free to get dirty and learn to do it on your own. It is pretty straight forward and you will learn so much!!!!

[CowboyErik]

Guys, I'm not here to drag down our VX's, but not to parade and blow sunshine on the ISUZU name that has DESERTED us here in the United States; we have an engine failure poll for a reason, and evidence that the heart, the Janpanese engine of countless VX's were manufactured defective, installed then SOLD here in the USA, DEFECTIVE, burn oil, drain back holes, and the engines run filthy, carbon build up to total clog in our intake manifolds. My VX loves oil almost as much as gas!
When my radiator core blew and I limped home, I once again service my tranny; THEN I found I WHAT tranny was in it, and I was SHOCKED to find it was a GENERAL MOTORS tranny, made in FRANCE, installed in Japan. So I looked up historical info on the 4L30E and found that it's really not the right tranny for the VX especially for 4WD all the time. It is not. It is not made towing. And the radiator's intercooler is a joke, it does not cool. I will post pics illustrating the stock radiator's intercooler portion. We all gotta rebuild now and install real intercoolers and totally by-pass the radiator to preserve our beloved VX's!

[vt_maverick]

... and evidence that the heart, the engine of countless VX's were manufactured, installed and SOLD here in the USA...

I don't know of any VX engines manufactured in the US. Does Jasper or somebody else make replacements? I don't think anyone (other than blacksambo maybe) is arguing that Isuzu is perfect. We're just saying maybe your having a bit of an overreaction.

[vt_maverick]

Oh and I wouldn't call throwing in the towel on the US passenger vehicle market as "deserting" us. If anything I applaud their common sense in pulling out once it was clear the couldn't compete. I wonder if GM and Chrysler would have deserted their owners had the US government not bailed them out? Isuzu continues to make good on their warranties through GM service centers and still provides parts through former dealerships. What else would you have them do?

[chadzu]

I have two 4l30e's in the fleet right now. The trooper I have had since 50k its now at 250k, no tranny problems. I added the vx this summer and it is at 185k, tranny is working fine.
I live at 5000 ft, and I wonder if the reduced power helps the trannys live, but I have had no trouble with either of mine.

[HeckaTrebeka]

Hey, yo Erik. Erik. I'm really sorry for you and Imma let you finish, but GM HAD ONE OF THE BEST TRANNIES OF ALL TIME.

...


But seriously. You had a bad experience. I'm guessing you're not the original owner of that VX and you don't know what the previous owner(s) have put it through. Maybe you can chill out a little on the caps lock, and perhaps look for other solutions, or follow your own advice to rebuild your trans every 75k.

[LeglizHemp]

well, my motor finally gave out this summer at 78,000. i didn't get it fixed right away and parked it. 3 weeks ago i decided was cheaper to get a new motor than a new car so 5k for new motor. picked up the car 2 weeks ago. after a week i noticed some leakage. i took it in today, figured somethin not tight. called this afternoon to have them look at the brakes while its back in there. they don't even let me get that far and say the manager needs to speak with me. transmission is shot. i'm not real happy, mostly because i wouldn't have put in a new motor if i knew it needed a new trans. oh well i guess i'll be driving a vehicross for a long long time now if i gonna put this kinda cash into it. i wonder if i could find someone who wants to buy a vehicross with new motor and new trans for ....hmmmmmmm

i do still love drivin it though and it still gets more stares than the purple SSR i drove while it was down.

[FlyingV77]

What exactly is the weak link in our tranys? Can't seem to find it in the 100ks of posts. Is it the case or the internals? I'm back to work and ill be doing an engine swap and need to know wha I have to upgrade in the drivetrain to keep the tod

[Ldub]

I'm back to work and ill be doing an engine swap and need to know wha I have to upgrade in the drivetrain to keep the tod

Howz about a clutch...:smilewink

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=17701&highlight=speed+TOD

[Scott Larson]

My advice, take it or leave it, service the damn thing regularly with quality oil and filter and never, ever, ever, ever flush it OR run it out of fluid, EVER!!!!!

[LeglizHemp]

.

[Leon R]

My advice, take it or leave it, service the damn thing regularly with quality oil and filter and never, ever, ever, ever flush it OR run it out of fluid, EVER!!!!!

I do not know how many times I have seen people having a tranny failure after a flush! You ether flush your tranny 20-30k miles or... NEVER!! EVER!!! Just drain the fluid and change the filter, per manual.

LeglizHemp, it is possible that your shop flushed the tranny when did an engine swap... So your tranny could have been OK before all the work. But you will never get them to admit to possibly causing this failure.

But, I am curious to hear what usually fails in these trannies! Can those parts be upgraded?

All the people running superchargers are pushing 30-40% extra torque through the these trannies, how many failure are they reporting?

[LeglizHemp]

just went to have a talk with the dealer about tranny faliure. he says sometimes when changing out an engine things move and a problem you never noticed pops up. i asked him to pull my service records to look at 60k service, 3 yrs ago. shows they did maintenance on transfer cases and differentials but nothing to tranny. i remember asking them about that and being told not neccesary. he also said typically they do not touch the tranny until at least 90k miles, no fluid no filter no nothing.

i guess it really doesn't matter, its out of warranty anyhow,and won't drive without transmission. i did not scream or yell and maybe it will pay off. i'm also getting new brake discs and brake pads and new wipper arms. lol i think i'm gonna get a free detail job out of it.

[mborodi]

lol.. I've run mine across the USA.. I know eventually I will have to do tranny work.. Im not a wrench turner.. but I am obsessed with my Proton.. I would no sooner rebuild the tranny @ 75K than I would take a sledge hammer to the body.. I would hope any VX'r would not jump the gun and take every bit of information & run with it.. homework, homework! the price looks good, but not all mechanic's are created equal..


Can you imagine if deermagnet, at nearly 300K miles, was about to do his 4th rebuild?



Erik-
This is an active group of MANY obssessed owners.....many of whom are actual wrenchers.
Many know the history, details, lineage and provenance of every single part/component of this truck. It just doesn't make any logical sense that your mechanic has just discovered some new, unknown info about the tranny in this 11-14 year old vehicle.

They've taken apart/repaired/replaced/adjusted/modified/broken/bled on/changed etc...many of the major components of the truck, like the engine and tranny.
With the VAST amount of experienced people on this forum, who know this truck forward and backwords, do you really think NONE of them would have commented on this tranny issue before?

Like Tom said, I don't mean to question your tranny shop, but I'm 100% certain the many experienced wrenchers on this forum, know the VX far better than the guy you're dealing with.

[LeglizHemp]

ya know, after doing a little more online research, i'm wondering if my transmission needs to be rebuilt. i've never had any trouble with it before the engine swap and only trouble after was it was leaking. it needs like 3 seals fixed and they say they found clutch material in the fluid. maybe i should have them just fix the seals and move on and see what happens. any thoughts on this idea?

[nfpgasmask]

This is a funny thread, and I am going to go out on a limb here and sort of agree with the OP a little, that the 4L30E is not the "best part" of the Isuzu VehiCROSS by any means. That said, I do not think it is a "bad" transmission, it is just a weak point and a severe pain in the boot to maintenance. Thus, many owners fail or their shops fail to do a good job at regular intervals with fluid and filters.

I bought my VX with 24,000 miles on it, and within the first week of ownership, I was slamming gears between 1st and 2nd. I then drained the tranny fluid and my fluid, at 25,000 miles, was BLACK and BURNT. I don't know how this could have happened on such a young tranny, but it is FACT. I have since been using Mobile-1 ATF with good results, changing fluid and filter ever 30-35,000 miles.

I think the tranny, when properly and diligently maintained, is a fine auto tranny for a VehiCROSS in stock configuration. Also, I am pretty sure, the VehiCROSS was NOT meant to be used for TOWING. I also think, it was NOT MEANT to be used for ROCK CRAWLING. So you cannot judge a transmission in a vehicle based on using it for something other than what it was intended.

That said, I do agree, that an Isuzu MUA5 5-speed of sorts or an Aisin auto would have been a MUCH better choice. But we have to remember that it was a partnership with GM that most likely put the 4L30E under our beloved VXes. And it was ALSO GM that screwed Isuzu up in the United States. Honestly, I cannot blame Isuzu for pulling out of the horrid passenger vehicle market in the US at the time. It is sad and unfortunate but it happened to a lot of marques and Isuzu just happened to be one of them.

Bart

[LeglizHemp]

well after keeping my kool and being patient with the dealer i am getting new brake pads and discs for all 4 wheels, new windshield wiper arms (mine were rusty), rear window defroster fixed and a rebuilt transmission plus getting car detailed all for $2400. not too bad i guess. but i think the dealership may go out of business next year since they lost isuzu and now are losing suzuki. so who covers the warranty on my new engine and tranny i'll have to investigate.

[HeckaTrebeka]

so who covers the warranty on my new engine and tranny i'll have to investigate.

I'm guessing Chevy/GM would be the ones to cover the warranty.

[CowboyErik]

What exactly is the weak link in our tranys? Can't seem to find it in the 100ks of posts. Is it the case or the internals? I'm back to work and ill be doing an engine swap and need to know wha I have to upgrade in the drivetrain to keep the tod

Transmission guy here in Cincy with alot of experiance and a huge shop just for laying out and rebuilding tranny's 5 days a week said the 4L30E evolved from what amounts to the tranny for a Chevy Chevet, the econo box; and it wasn't really meant for 4WD all the time let alone towing a payload while 4WD. He showed me the casing and similarities between cousins of the same tranny's, I was shocked, he also showed me the inside of the "intercooler" build in the the VX radiator, it's a total joke and not worthy of the name. We by-passed the stock intercooler alltogether and installed an auxilary intercooler. He showed me alot of the internal parts of the tranny in mine that were destroyed. They aren't heavy duty, and there are no heavy duty parts for this tranny. I got rebuilt for and a total exhaust refit for well under 2K and got a 12K warranty. So far so good. It never actually ran this well when I got it, never shifted this smooth. Guy before me had a class 3 hitch that I removed so it was abused. From what I have seen, I have to stand by what I said originally, we all have to rebuild at 75K or you'll be spending even more money for expensive parts. Even the CASE of my tranny had to be replaced due to worn shaft inputs, something that's never supposed to fail frankly so I got a deal at a flat rate repair price cause I needed everything, including a casing for my tranny..... long live the VX! I will drive mine on MARs in the year 2112! RUSH!

[evillecutter]

glad you got her going again!

the trans we have was put in beemers, cadillacs, troopers, acuras, and hondas - none of which i believe were originally meant to tow anything - i think most of the people on this site that have a hitch and tow know enough about precaution and maintaince to keep it from failing but im not surprised that it happens

[tom4bren]

glad you got her going again!

the trans we have was put in beemers, cadillacs, troopers, acuras, and hondas - none of which i believe were originally meant to tow anything - i think most of the people on this site that have a hitch and tow know enough about precaution and maintaince to keep it from failing but im not surprised that it happens

Light on the skinny pedal is what it's all about whilst towing ... but I tow with my '03 Eclipse too so what do I know???:)

[LeglizHemp]

finally got the car back this week. took them almost 7 weeks to do the work. lol bob rohrman on indy southside, these guys are on the ball. they did discount the repair heavily so thats a good thing. they say they will be around to cover the warranty on motor and trans because they will be covering suzuki warranties for long time. tranny seems kinda tight though, the shifter gets stuck and can't get key out sometimes or get shifter to move into gear sometimes. i'm sure this is temporary.

[BigSwede]

Read page 3 of this document, it talks about the history of the 4L30E, as well as some valuable advice for rebuilding.

http://www.transtec.com/downloads/rebuilder_news/2nd_q95r-n.pdf

[MSHardeman]

tranny seems kinda tight though, the shifter gets stuck and can't get key out sometimes or get shifter to move into gear sometimes.

There is a little switch that allows you to put the transmission into gear while depressing the brake pedal. If that switch is going out, or is not contacting the brake pedal correctly, it could stop you from putting the transmission into gear, or getting it fully into park allowing you to take the key out of the ignition.

Someone here replaced/repaired that switch a while ago and did a write up on it. I would have to do some hunting to find it if you need it.

[LeglizHemp]

thanks MSHardeman, if you find the link please post it. guess i'll take car back in since it should be covered under warranty.

[fotomaker]

Guy before me had a class 3 hitch that I removed so it was abused.

I put a trailer hitch on my VX, but, only for a bike rack!

[MSHardeman]

LH, here is the thread with all of the info that I was talking about:

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=17994&highlight=replace+switch

There's even a video that shows what needs to be replaced and where it lives in the VX. there is a switch up at the brake pedal and a solenoid down at the shifter. The two of them work together to prevent you from putting the VX into gear if the brake pedal isn't depressed.

Hope this helps.

[LeglizHemp]

i'll take a look at it this weekend. the dealer who replaced the engine then rebuilt the tranny likes to say things breaking are not his fault. that it is normal for other parts to fail after you work on something related. so is always an argument/battle to get things done.

thanks again for the info.

[CowboyErik]

From the time I got it, my tranny never ran right, shifting was sanding, slow, clunking, I thought this was simply the way VX was, my VX is my first truck/SUV; I servied the tranny multiple times; looked good, pans normal, no worse the what's Ive seen in my Nissan or buick tranny pans, cleaned it up, filled, cycled, filled and checked again, no leaks; what finished me off, was intercooler failure, after market part, spring a leak, I limied home a few miles, tranny light came on, drove low speed; 4L30E manual states there is a "limp home"feature, well, I did that; upone taking my tranny down, it's totally on the insided, shiims, pads, seaals, all totalled; there was a part of the case, where a large plunger or piston seated in to it, a fine fit, this shaft rotated and was also self sealing; a nasty grove was work into it; so I even had to get a replacement case; CLASS III/II hitching had ruined it by shop said. I called around shops, not saying I had an Isuzu, just that I had a General Motors 4L30E that needed rebuild; qouted $1200 to $1500; I was at $1500 cuase of all the extra parts and work that are not routinely totally wasted like they were in my case; I got a 12K/1year warranty; so far, so goot, shifts like Lexus, never did that before; millagage up about 2o percent; next tackling these rotton bumpers, bad O2 sensors; oil burning, ABS issues, serviing my axciles; maybe do a 3rd roller bearing repack; there cars were made to runforever at all; lots of short sites. rotted numper bars gotta to go, when I take off claddimg, I should be prour, not embarrased at whats under neither there; and my license plate lights, those need to be address; I have new lights, holders and OEM bracket to put in; shirts crazy, LOVE MY VX!! Did my brakes right, rotors are forever; checking pads soon; need to soften my ride, someone put super hard springs on my BV, they suck; ; need worn rear srpings to install; and I love my fogging headlight again, I've polished them 5 times, yellow haze always comes back; pealing center caps suck,cant get the logo's off them to get them down to chrome, bought a set of 4 new Rodeo rims, late model, great condition, hopefully they are same bolt configuration; new hood words, old one rusted out, still have it, trying to restore the bolts so I can put different logo on it and be able to swap; I could do on, but I'm tired, good nite! My VX is WARM and in his garage happy with plenty of insane tire shiine on his plastic cladding!

[bartmanS4]

English as a second language?

[VX KAT]

From the time I got it, my tranny never ran right, shifting was sanding, slow, clunking, I thought this was simply the way VX was, my VX is my first truck/SUV; I servied the tranny multiple times; looked good, pans normal, no worse the what's Ive seen in my Nissan or buick tranny pans, cleaned it up, filled, cycled, filled and checked again, no leaks; what finished me off, was intercooler failure, after market part, spring a leak, I limied home a few miles, tranny light came on, drove low speed; 4L30E manual states there is a "limp home"feature, well, I did that; upone taking my tranny down, it's totally on the insided, shiims, pads, seaals, all totalled; there was a part of the case, where a large plunger or piston seated in to it, a fine fit, this shaft rotated and was also self sealing; a nasty grove was work into it; so I even had to get a replacement case; CLASS III/II hitching had ruined it by shop said. I called around shops, not saying I had an Isuzu, just that I had a General Motors 4L30E that needed rebuild; qouted $1200 to $1500; I was at $1500 cuase of all the extra parts and work that are not routinely totally wasted like they were in my case; I got a 12K/1year warranty; so far, so goot, shifts like Lexus, never did that before; millagage up about 2o percent; next tackling these rotton bumpers, bad O2 sensors; oil burning, ABS issues, serviing my axciles; maybe do a 3rd roller bearing repack; there cars were made to runforever at all; lots of short sites. rotted numper bars gotta to go, when I take off claddimg, I should be prour, not embarrased at whats under neither there; and my license plate lights, those need to be address; I have new lights, holders and OEM bracket to put in; shirts crazy, LOVE MY VX!! Did my brakes right, rotors are forever; checking pads soon; need to soften my ride, someone put super hard springs on my BV, they suck; ; need worn rear srpings to install; and I love my fogging headlight again, I've polished them 5 times, yellow haze always comes back; pealing center caps suck,cant get the logo's off them to get them down to chrome, bought a set of 4 new Rodeo rims, late model, great condition, hopefully they are same bolt configuration; new hood words, old one rusted out, still have it, trying to restore the bolts so I can put different logo on it and be able to swap; I could do on, but I'm tired, good nite! My VX is WARM and in his garage happy with plenty of insane tire shiine on his plastic cladding!


English as a second language?

OK, now I'm going to post this since bartman did…:_thinking
Is it just me and bartman or does everybody have a very hard time following this post, as well as many of the previous ones,:_thinking trying to guess at words that are spelled wrong, and missing words?

In red highlight above, I'm pretty sure he omitted the word "NOT"…… that changes meaning completely..changes THREAD entirely since he previous said our tranny's were a huge weak spot, not really expected to go more than about 70k…::_thinking

and I'm still guessing at whether it's 2% or 20% increase in MPG…._thinking


I get it, it's probably from a phone or device, so it's fast and handy and harder to type, but man…I can't follow your stuff...:goof:

[Cobrajet]

Last edited by CowboyErik : Today at 02:50 AM. Reason: spell check

English as a second language?

Is it just me and bartman or does everybody have a very hard time following this post, as well as many of the previous ones,:_thinking trying to guess at words that are spelled wrong, and missing words?

Actually I was going to post earlier, but I felt it inappropriate during the holiday season. But since you ASKED... Yes!

My comment in response to Bart's post was:

Spell check doesn't work!! :)

(file this one in the "Huh? What?" folder...)

[vt_maverick]

From the time I got it, my tranny never ran right, shifting was sanding, slow, clunking, I thought this was simply the way VX was, my VX is my first truck/SUV; I servied the tranny multiple times; looked good, pans normal, no worse the what's Ive seen in my Nissan or buick tranny pans, cleaned it up, filled, cycled, filled and checked again, no leaks; what finished me off, was intercooler failure, after market part, spring a leak, I limied home a few miles, tranny light came on, drove low speed; 4L30E manual states there is a "limp home"feature, well, I did that; upone taking my tranny down, it's totally on the insided, shiims, pads, seaals, all totalled; there was a part of the case, where a large plunger or piston seated in to it, a fine fit, this shaft rotated and was also self sealing; a nasty grove was work into it; so I even had to get a replacement case; CLASS III/II hitching had ruined it by shop said. I called around shops, not saying I had an Isuzu, just that I had a General Motors 4L30E that needed rebuild; qouted $1200 to $1500; I was at $1500 cuase of all the extra parts and work that are not routinely totally wasted like they were in my case; I got a 12K/1year warranty; so far, so goot, shifts like Lexus, never did that before; millagage up about 2o percent; next tackling these rotton bumpers, bad O2 sensors; oil burning, ABS issues, serviing my axciles; maybe do a 3rd roller bearing repack; there cars were made to runforever at all; lots of short sites. rotted numper bars gotta to go, when I take off claddimg, I should be prour, not embarrased at whats under neither there; and my license plate lights, those need to be address; I have new lights, holders and OEM bracket to put in; shirts crazy, LOVE MY VX!! Did my brakes right, rotors are forever; checking pads soon; need to soften my ride, someone put super hard springs on my BV, they suck; ; need worn rear srpings to install; and I love my fogging headlight again, I've polished them 5 times, yellow haze always comes back; pealing center caps suck,cant get the logo's off them to get them down to chrome, bought a set of 4 new Rodeo rims, late model, great condition, hopefully they are same bolt configuration; new hood words, old one rusted out, still have it, trying to restore the bolts so I can put different logo on it and be able to swap; I could do on, but I'm tired, good nite! My VX is WARM and in his garage happy with plenty of insane tire shiine on his plastic cladding!

I think based on all of the above it's obvious someone beat the hell out of your VX, including and especially the tranny. When half your truck is in need of this much work how can you fault the tranny's design but blame everything else on abuse?

[Marlin]

The key factors to my success are as follows. I'm the original owner. It has not suffered neglect and abuse like so many VX trannys that are bought used. I've had preventive maintenance done five times on my tranny.

Our VX version of the 4L30E absolutely belongs in a VX. It's not the same trans used in all those other vehicles over the many years it's been around. The 4L30E gets different internal components based on what specific vehicle it's gonna be used in. You can't even swap in a Rodeo or Amigo trans in a VX. It's has some different internal parts. It may work, but for how long?
That is strange, I have had a rodeo tranny in mine for 3 years now. No problem. Joe Darlington has a rodeo tranny in his as well, I helped him pull it out at the junkyard. I wheel mine and I tow occasionally with it.

Isuzu says the VX trans was beefed up to handle the extra HP of the 3.5L. The only Isuzu that has the exact same 4L30E is the 3.5L Trooper. That's it.
The VX is not rated for towing. I am gonna have to call this one incorrect. The Trooper comes with a Class II hitch mounted on it by Isuzu. Even my wife's 3.2l has a class II hitch on the back. It is prewired and predrilled for just that application, meaning, it was meant to be able to tow. Since the VX is nothing more than a fancy looking short Trooper, that means it should have the ability to tow as well.

You should not drive it like ya stole it or beat the hell out of it or rally race it.Isn't that exactly what it was built for, a Performance Utility Vehicle? Yet lots of people have bought a VX and not realized that the previous owner(s) have done just that to it. All the problems of the trans and engine and everything else caused by that abuse and neglect get dumped on to the new owner.
I bought my VX 4 years ago with about 114K miles. It was pristine, obviously garage kept and well maintained. I had the tranny serviced at an Isuzu dealership. A few months later, boom, tranny dead. Been with the Rodeo tranny since.
Mark Griffin :_steering

I will say, based on the specs for the tranny, we are hovering right at the max torque ratings for that setup. That means our lucky brothers with S/Cs might be over that rating. Isuzu put the GM crappy tranny into a truck that is way too heavy and has too much power for it to handle. Hence our ridiculous tranny failure rate.

I agree, you had wonderful success with yours, but of your fantastic high mileage, how much of that was freeway/highway? I would guess your commute is no joke?

[Marlin]

I think the no towing is due to the requirements for testing that the DOT demands of manufacturers. With a limited run of vehicles, it would not be worth the cost. Mechanically, the tranny is the same as the 3.5L trooper, which once again, comes with a classII 5500lb hitch. That means at a drivetrain level, it (tranny) is designed to tow. I agree neglect and abuse can contribute to issues. My truck gets worked hard, but I meticulously maintain the old girl. Premium fluids and routine maintenance. I am on my 3rd set of wheel bearings and so on. I pay to play so to speak. Right now I am DDing 70 miles a day in the old girl. Not fun, those kevlars get louder every trip!
I love my VX,(obviously) short of a fire, flood or major collision, she isn't going anywhere!

[BigSwede]

My old 99 Trooper was rated at 4500 lbs towing...2WD models were rated 5000 lbs.

[Leon R]

You guys seem really paranoid of towing! There are many people on planetissuzu.com who tow 4000-5000lbs trailers without any problems... Many of them are using the same automatic tranny!!!

[johnnyapollo]

Yeah I don't know if I agree with the whole towing thing - I've towed in excess of 5K pounds (weight of trailer plus cargo) behind the VX (not sure about hitch/tongue weight which I would presume would be less) without any issues with my tranny - going on 160k miles as the original owner. I've also done meticulous maintenance on my truck AND had it supercharged for a year or two before removing the unit. Still no tranny issues. I can also say I don't baby my truck, however most of the miles is stop-and-go highway commuting less than 10 miles and back from work, with an occasional trip out-of-state to camp, vacation, etc.

I'm more inclined to agree with Mark Griffin, though, regarding abuse-and-neglect, as I've seen how many drivers tear up their vehicles "YOLO!" Driving a vehicle "hard" is much like driving through adverse conditions - if you look at the service manuals, that means more frequent maintenance intervals - most casual owners don't take the extra steps - heck it's hard enough to get many to do regular oil-changes, much less more frequently. Even driving in higher-than-average heat, dust or polution takes a pounding on any car or truck and you should do maintenance more frequently as a consequence.

Just my 2 cents, for what they're worth...

[Triathlete]

I think part of the reason it is not recommended to tow with the VX is because of the short wheelbase.

[Leon R]

I think part of the reason it is not recommended to tow with the VX is because of the short wheelbase.

Yes, true, but I hear a LOT sentiment that "this tranny is barely strong enough for just the VX, so you can't possibly tow with it" and I am not sure that I agree with it!

[Ldub]

I think part of the reason it is not recommended to tow with the VX is because of the short wheelbase.

I'll trow down 2 cents of short wheelbase towin' info, though it has no bearing on the trans...sorry...:flower:

Back in the day, I lived @ 2k ft elevation, a few miles from the ocean. Towing an 18' Bayliner with a 350 volvo penta outdrive (chev) down to the boat ramp, with a Toyota 4WD pickup can get REAL interesting coming down a relatively steep curve in the road. Let's just say that the big heavy boat wanted to go straight, trying it's best to push the rear of the tow rig into a drift/roll scenario.

Y'know how hard it is to convince your right foot to hammer the skinny pedal @ that moment in time?

I'm just glad I had it in 4-Hi.

[PK]

Yep - the tail starts to wag the dog.:yesgray::yesy:

All to do with short wheel base and the weight of the towed item being close to, or more than, the towing vehicle.
When you compare the light weight of our VX's to other "proper" 4wd vehicles, our light weight makes it harder to tow anything.:o:(

PK

[Triathlete]

And a toy pickup has a bit longer wheelbase than the VX. Toy is around 108 and ours is 96 I think.
Some day when the $ gods are my friend and the d44 in my garage gets put under my VX I plan on adding about 6 inches to the wheelbase.

[VX KAT]

Yep - the tail starts to wag the dog.:yesgray::yesy:

All to do with short wheel base and the weight of the towed item being close to, or more than, the towing vehicle.
When you compare the light weight of our VX's to other "proper" 4wd vehicles, our light weight makes it harder to tow anything.:o:(

PK
Hope it's OK to tow my "KAT BOX"…460 lbs + 190 lbs cargo?
Other than cross winds, what other issues might I encounter at highway speeds? …sorry minor thread hack in progress….:o

[Marlin]

Yep - the tail starts to wag the dog.:yesgray::yesy:

All to do with short wheel base and the weight of the towed item being close to, or more than, the towing vehicle.
When you compare the light weight of our VX's to other "proper" 4wd vehicles, our light weight makes it harder to tow anything.:o:(

PK

Not sure who told you she is a lightweight 4x4. I had to weigh mine for my military move last year:
"I did weigh her yesterday. 4420 lbs empty. I took out all parts, tools, sub, backseat...heavy toy for sure"

That was empty tank,no spare and so on.That means, normal rolling weight with me in it is close to 5000lbs. I weighed my 4dr, diesel F250 weighed in at 7200 lbs, and I didn't take anything out at all. So almost twice the truck, not even 50% heavier.
An F150 doesn't weigh much more than the VX, and they are rated to tow 9000lbs. (not sure what the new ones are rated for, probably even higher) Of course, they have WAY better brakes. Wheel base may have some negative aspects, but the Trooper RS has the same rated tow capacity as the regular 4wd trooper.
Like I said, I bet there are DOT tests to be performed for tow ratings, and with so few built, was not practical to spend the money on the testing.

[PK]

Not sure who told you she is a lightweight 4x4. I had to weigh mine for my military move last year:
"I did weigh her yesterday. 4420 lbs empty. I took out all parts, tools, sub, backseat...heavy toy for sure"

That was empty tank,no spare and so on.That means, normal rolling weight with me in it is close to 5000lbs. I weighed my 4dr, diesel F250 weighed in at 7200 lbs, and I didn't take anything out at all. So almost twice the truck, not even 50% heavier.
An F150 doesn't weigh much more than the VX, and they are rated to tow 9000lbs. (not sure what the new ones are rated for, probably even higher) Of course, they have WAY better brakes. Wheel base may have some negative aspects, but the Trooper RS has the same rated tow capacity as the regular 4wd trooper.
Like I said, I bet there are DOT tests to be performed for tow ratings, and with so few built, was not practical to spend the money on the testing.

Marlin, I have to admit that I have never weighed mine, so am just going by the published curb weight for the JDM VX, and that is 1794 kg, or 3950 lbs.
Most other true full chassis 4 wds in Australia are well over 2500 kg, so the weight difference is significant.
I also agree that all government DOT requirements could have had a lot to do with Isuzu not recommending towing with the VX. It wasn't only in America.

Sue, you won't have any trouble towing your toy box provided the draw bar is full length to keep it stable, and that is the trailer builders work, not yours.
I tow my boat on a dual axle trailer - 1350 kg all up - with no problems, but I have been towing boats and caravans all my life, and drive accordingly.
I agree the VX can be used for towing - just have to keep it realistic.

PK

[CowboyErik]

Erik-
This is an active group of MANY obssessed owners.....many of whom are actual wrenchers.
Many know the history, details, lineage and provenance of every single part/component of this truck. It just doesn't make any logical sense that your mechanic has just discovered some new, unknown info about the tranny in this 11-14 year old vehicle.

They've taken apart/repaired/replaced/adjusted/modified/broken/bled on/changed etc...many of the major components of the truck, like the engine and tranny.
With the VAST amount of experienced people on this forum, who know this truck forward and backwords, do you really think NONE of them would have commented on this tranny issue before?

Like Tom said, I don't mean to question your tranny shop, but I'm 100% certain the many experienced wrenchers on this forum, know the VX far better than the guy you're dealing with.

The General Motors 4L30E we have is at best generic. It was anything special for the VX and was old tech and weak. It was never designed for 4WD all the time for certain. I been running now for half a decade on my rebuild I guess or getting close, glad all is well. The old man who just did the actualy tranny work ( not the wrencher who took the unit out of my car) had about 40 years in doing trannys. I think he could have done it with his eyes closed, reassembling 100's of parts and I have flawless performance now but I don't push hard anymore. We got lots of people on this forum since me with total failure of their trannys like I predicted! We all will have to rebuild!

[eternal21]

We got lots of people on this forum since me with total failure of their trannys like I predicted! We all will have to rebuild!

Not those of us w/5 forward gears ;)