Engine is blown, please help me decide what to do..... :-(

[LittleBeast]

For the past few months if I drove the VX for more than 1 hour at a time the check engine light would come on and it might die once, but then I just put it in neutral and it started back up no problem, but I still was worried I might be occasionally loosing compression to one of the cylinders.

So a few days ago I started smelling some oil/gas burning from the VX while driving, I hoped it was no big worry. Well 2 days ago while stopped at a stop light I started seeing smoke and it was coming from my tailpipe. So I dropped it off at my faithful honest mechanic that I know very well (and he knows the VX a little too well).

He called me today:
-oil is getting up to the #6 cylinder spark plug fast.
-he cleaned the spark plug and as much around the area as he could and it ran fine for a few miles, but very quickly turned back into a smoke machine.

What do I do?????

Options:
#1 - total rebuild using all new parts bored out 20/1000ths from Texon Motors = $3600 (3yr warranty, all new everything) http://www.texonmotorcenter.com/
#2 - let mechanic at McIntyre auto do minimum rebuild $?

[Marlin]

Dpends on your budget, but personally, I would go the more expensive route. You have put so much work and money into it, why cheap out now. I often smell gas in mine, but I fortuntatley throw no lights other than 0440. If mine dies, I am really going to look at putting a diesel in it. But I have 3 vehicles so time is not a huge deal. I hope to never have to make that decision at 140K miles and meticulously performed maintenance. How many miles do you have?

[vt_maverick]

The diesel is an interesting option but pricey and difficult; you'll probably have to import an engine from Japan (new) or Canada (used) along with the right ECU and everything else you need. And then good luck finding replacement parts quickly for an engine that was never marketed in this country.

Still a diesel would be an Isuzu solution and (probably) dramatically increase your fuel economy. But I would also consider a swap to an Ecotec or V8 depending on price.

[LittleBeast]

156k miles, and I have done all oil changes with Mobil 1 full synthetic myself :-(

[VX crazy]

sorry to hear Ryan! I would go the extensive rebuild route.....you have the best VX out there! I know I only drive mine once every couple weeks now and drove it last week, its just eating oil and I noticed last week it smelled like it was burning oil so much so that I checked the oil again when I got to work and had to add an entire quart, so I know its time too......as soon as it cools down we are pulling my engine out of my original VX and getting it ready for transplant. I am too nervous nilly to drive mine much now til thats finished. Good luck and lets make it a Houston meet and we can all help out!

[ND92]

It sucks to have a blown engine. Mine went at around 60,000m's. I wasn't apart of the forum when it happened so I was in the dark as to what to do. My family mechanic and i phoned around to almost every mechanic in the city and province to see who could help but no one would even look at it (had a few hang up on me). So my mechanic took it on and outsourced an engine shop to help. It turned out that my left camshafts seized up and blew the rods into the heads, destroying them. They tried to fix it but couldnt, so they searched for parts for months. I wish I new about the new engines at st.charles or a swap with a different engine because it would have cost the same as what I paid for a top end rebuild. I agree with Marlin, depends on your budget. But the complete rebuild would be worth it.

[MSHardeman]

Ryan, this is terrible news. It seems like we've had a spat of engine's going out recently. Like you, I was very faithful on oil changes and never really dogged the engine (I rarely reved it past 3500 rpm's), but I guess some of them are just going to give up the ghost no matter what.

Of the two options you listed, I would go with the full rebuild if you have the dough. Make SURE that the new pistons have the extra oil drain holes in them or you'll end up with an oil burning issue again (if you had one in the first place). Texon looks like a good company and the Isuzu engine is just an engine so if they're business is rebuilding engines then everything should be just fine. Do you know what is wrong with your engine? I'm just afraid that they will get into it to rebuild it and find something that they can't fix so you'll be out of a useable VX AND the money that it took to get into the motor to find out it's unfixable. I'm usually an optimist, but that was my biggest concern when my motor needed to be replaced. What if I spend all this time and money to have the engine removed and broken down only to find that it can't be rebuilt then I have to spend more money for a new or rebuilt motor AND the VX is out of commission for an undetermined amount of time (it's my daily driver).

If money was no object, or you could take out a loan for it, I would totally endorse buying a new Isuzu motor. When I got mine there were only 16 left in the country so I have no idea if there are many left. The motor that I bought was, apparently, manufactured in 2011 and has the updated pistons with the extra oil drain holes in them. I've been driving on the new motor for over 4,000 miles now and I've only had to add a tiny bit of oil after about 3,000 miles (I used to have to add 3/4 of a quart every 300-350 miles). I'd be happy to get you in touch with Jerry Lemond as he can get a little bit of a discount on new Isuzu motors.

Good luck.

[JoFotoz]

Dang it Ryan...so bummed to hear this.
Talking to Jerry Lemond would be a good plan either way...IMO.

jo

[Buffy]

Jerry is the man when it comes to parts. I which I had known about him with I rebuilt my motor, it would have been cheaper and way quicker. I had a nightmare getting my engine timed correctly after a reputable shop built it. They claimed to know how to build it but failed miserably. Actually met Jerry during the build process and had him call the machinist to instruct him on how to properly install the cams and time the engine!

[H3_VX]

After watching Xtreme 4x4 put a VW diesel in a samurai I wondered about putting it in the VX.

[LittleBeast]

Mechanic said minimum would be $2k, so I called Texon and they are towing it to their shop for a complete rebuild. I am not worried about their work, they are a top of the line engine shop. 3.5L will be better than ever and guaranteed for 3 years. But I will be out $3500. Just when I was going to buy the HD front torsion bars!

[JoFotoz]

That sounds like a great deal Ryan.
Glad youre getting it sorted without spending a (huge) fortune .

jo

[nfpgasmask]

Man, I feel like I should buy one of those few remaining motors just for prosperity!

Bart

[LittleBeast]

The LittleBeast is at Texon Motors and they are taking the engine out now. Number 6 cylinder had 95% failure on compression, but it still starts right up, haha. They will bore it out 20/1000th, but it may also be that my CPU is bad as well. Any ideas there?

I will run by there today or tomorrow for some photos I hope.

[phrogs4life]

I know you don't want to do this, but you should do an LS swap. By LS I mean LS1 or LS6 made by chevy.

[LittleBeast]

I always thought I would swap drivetrains completely if anything ever happened, but I need the VX back up and running ASAP, so under $4k for a brand new 3.5L with 3 year warranty (and no cu$tom fabricating) does not sound too bad at the moment ;-)

[phrogs4life]

LOL I was kidding anyways bro lol That would be a whole lot of work, which by the way I would be willing to help with. I'm in the middle of swapping one into a 79 chevy LUV. Any how that's pretty cheap for a brand new motor. Turn Key or short block?

[Buffy]

Have them check the new pistons to see if they have the extra oiling holes. If they do not contact Jerry and he can provide them instructions on how to add the holes. Also make sure they put preload on the cams when they work the heads, if they do not the motor will be VERY noisy and the cams will have to be reinstalled. Ask me how I know this......

[MSHardeman]

Here is the thread that I started on how, and where, to drill the new oil drain holes. I got the picture and the information from Jerry himself.

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=23047

In the middle of tearing my old engine down to see what made it fail, and I was thinking of having it rebuilt, Buffy, so it's good to know about preloading the cams (what does that even mean?).

Ryan, it's good to see that you're getting LittleBeast up and running again. Hope all goes well and that it's back on the road sooner than you think.

[LittleBeast]

I asked the shop about the oil drain holes and they said all the new pistons they will install have this issue fixed but they will go ahead and make the drain holes on cylinder #6 even larger than normal. Also he mentioned that ONE reason we tend to get failure in the #6 cylinder 1st is because this cylinder is the 1st one affected by a faulty FPR. So if your FPR has had issues it may have damaged cylinder #6. Anyways this was the email they sent me before I went over there and took a tour of the facility, sounds like and looks like they really know what they are doing:

"Hello Ryan,
We are aware of the oil drain hole. If you like we can modify it for you at no additional charge.
Here is some information on this issue. Enjoy.

Today's late-model engines are designed from the ground up for inherently better oil control, operating with tighter bearing clearances, and lower total oil volume in the engine-so they're naturals for lower-tension rings. Ford Modular V-8 and GM LS engines come stock with only 9- to 10-pound rings. Meanwhile, in the extremes of pro racing, tension ranges from a NASCAR Cup car 1.5- to 2mm-thick oil ring with 2.5 to 4 pounds of tension to a 25-pound Top Fuel oil control ring.

The shape and profile of the expander's drain-back holes are also changing. The trend is toward larger, rounder holes in the expander; old-school expanders had little slits. "If you can see the piston's oil drain-back holes through the expander, the oil has a less restrictive return path," maintains JE Pistons' Randy Gillis.

Read more: http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_0910_piston_ring_tech/viewall.html#ixzz29gZ1WhFJ

3.5L Oil Consumption issues
From Planetisuzoo Wiki
Jump to: navigation, search
Here's a paraphrase of something Jerry Lemond wrote in a forum topic titled: "Rotella T Results for Oil Consumption" from Aug 25, 2007 on this issue.
Starting in 1998 on the 3.2 and 3.5 Isuzu made the oil control rings less thick to decrease friction. They also drilled only 2 drain back holes on each side of the piston (inside the land). Why do we need holes inside the lands of the oil control rings? The oil that lubricates the cylinder wall comes from the crankshaft rod journal, where there is a hole drilled to align with a hole that’s drilled on an angle in the connecting rod that goes all the way through and exits near one of the rod bolts.
This hole is drilled and aligned in such a way that it only delivers oil on the cylinder walls as the piston is coming down from TDC and only on the major thrust side of the piston (which is the intake side of the piston), and why some pistons are directional and one of the reasons they have FRONT markings on them). As the piston descends the oil control rings job is to scrape the oil off the cylinder walls but leave a small amount for lubrication. If carbon begins to build up in the oil control ring area the rings are not free to move and function as they should.
The cure is to use a hi detergent oil but that will not break down the carbon in just 1 or 2 oil changes, it takes a lot more time. Rotella oil is a high detergent oil but it could take 8-10 oil changes before you see an effect.
In 2002 Isuzu addressed this oil consumption problem in the 3.5L by drilling 4 oil drainback holes. If you compare a late 3.2L side by side with a late 3.2 or 3.5L you’ll find a height difference. The 3.5 has a longer stroke, so the pistons are shorter in order to fit in the same deck height, the piston pin had to be relocated higher and the skirt was shortened by about ½ an inch to keep from hitting the crankshaft. The older engines had a 4mm wide oil control ring and 4 very large drain back holes on either side of the piston, the late engines have a 3mm wide oil control ring.
From J-Dawg dated Mar 27, 2008 of same thread:
If you are having problems with oil consumption, here are some commonly recommended steps:
1) replace PCV valve and air cleaner element
2) clean EGR system -- both valve and feed pipe that runs into the intake manifold. Check the FAQ or search for procedure. Be sure to clean the pipe.
3) Run a high grade full synthetic motor oil.
4) Run a high grade full synthetic diesel-rated motor oil.
5) Run a Seafoam or Auto-RX or similar oil treatment.
6) Perform a compression & leakdown check.
7) Rebuild engine and clean or replace pistons with newer designed OEM replacement pistons with larger and more oil drain back holes (your 2002 should already have them).
psguardian on Oct 22, 2010 in a thread titled "Burning Oil Fix for Late Troopers" said:
Issue: 3.5L burns an unnatural amount of oil, even with good maint.
Cause: Piston design flaw, the recess for the oil scraping ring only has 4 drain holes.
Fix: late production in '02 Isuzu changed piston design to include 10 drain holes in the oil scraping rings recess. (plus regularly changed oil)
Apparently the later 3.5L (some say later production 2002, others say all 2002 models) with the increased number of drain holds have a PCV valve that screws in. The earlier ones pressed into a rubber grommet."

[Buffy]

Here is the thread that I started on how, and where, to drill the new oil drain holes. I got the picture and the information from Jerry himself.

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=23047

In the middle of tearing my old engine down to see what made it fail, and I was thinking of having it rebuilt, Buffy, so it's good to know about preloading the cams (what does that even mean?).

Ryan, it's good to see that you're getting LittleBeast up and running again. Hope all goes well and that it's back on the road sooner than you think.

The cams in our motors run on solid blocks, to adjust the valves you have to insert spacers to achieve the correct adjustment. So basically we have a solid lift motor which are noisy. To keep the noise down they put like a sprocket on the end of the cam. To put preload on the cam you twist the sprocket and take one of the bolts that holds the coil packs on and slip that into the holes that will align when the sprocket is turned. The bolt will hold everything in place. Install the cam and remove the bolt, preload set! This tension keeps the cams quiet.

[CowboyErik]

I'm in this to preserve my VX as close to factory as possible; just my way; I managed to get a new mufler and tail pipe from Isuzu earlier this year; all rotted out; before I installed, I painted them heavily; and since I was doing transmission rebuild, I had shop take off my cats, stripped them down to bare metal, primed and painted them to taking care to protect O2 sensors and wires; used new gaskets and stainless steel nuts, bolts, washers; love it!http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/IMG_0800.JPG (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/IMG_0800.JPG)http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/IMG_0799.JPG (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/IMG_0799.JPG)http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/IMG_0796.JPG (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/IMG_0796.JPG)http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/IMG_0797.JPG (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/IMG_0797.JPG)

[tomdietrying]

Ryan,
Sorry to hear about Little Beast, but I am glad to hear about your rebuild.
Peace
Tom