ak-47 or ar-15?

[frakkin toaster]

got a friend trying to decide which is better. what would you rather have and why?


ar-15 (.223)

or

ak-47 (7.62x39)

[FlyingV77]

Is the ar15 a gas tube or piston? I've carried an m16 and I'm NOT a fan. Id rather have carryied a bolt action 308, or a PIG. But betwen those 2 I would go with the AK. Its just so much more relibable... but the ar platform is so much more populer and ammo is so easy to get. If you go with an AR first make sure its a gas piston and second make sure its chamberd in 5.56mm so you can shoot both 556 and 223. Thrid make sure you get quality and not a cheap rifle. Or go AK.... it realy comes down to persanl preferance.

Your welcom for the confusion!

[FlyingV77]

I did carry a m16 for 6 year and I hated it! What I carry now as my "oh **** rifle" is an FN PS90. And I love it!

[vt_maverick]

What does he plan to use it for?

[HeckaTrebeka]

^ for shootin, of course.

[vt_maverick]

Shootin what?

[BigSwede]

If he wants to shoot for accuracy, AR. If he wants a reliable plinker or bug-out gun, AK.

Having said that, my AR has been very reliable. But if the SHTF, I will pull out the FAL.

[evillecutter]

in my opinion an ak/sks is much more fun to shoot - especially if its an actual ak-47 with an extended mag or drum

[WormGod]

Never fired a true AK, but I fire an SKS (AK's grandaddy) on occasion with my friend who owns one. That thing is a tank. Not very accurate and clunky, but absolutely reliable and very easy to maintain. I totally enjoy my M4 and it has never failed me. As accurate as I want it to be and cheaper to fire than the AK. Maintenance is a bit more time consuming, but that's a fair trade off to me.

[bearandbee]

Just buy anything you can find for sale. Then buy a slide fire stock and a ton of ammo!

[RabidPony]

FAL, piston driven AR-10, or HK91. Forget little bullets.

[VXorado]

Forget little bullets.

I agree.

Colt CM901 .308 :thumbup:


...but for the question AK-47 or AR-15? AK-47 - simple and fun to shoot.

[frakkin toaster]

he just wants to have at least one of them before they are banned...

something to shoot for fun, nothing serious.

[Ldub]

Forget little bullets.

I'm a fan of the AR platform, for all the wicked deviations it's capable of morphing into, with just two pins & a new upper...voila...big bang.

A/A .50 Beo (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CDIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Falexanderarms.com%2Findex.php%2Fp roducts%2F50-beowulf%2Fvideo-and-photos-5beowulf%2F90-50-beowulf-future-weapons-episode-video.html&ei=0hTwUMuZBZS8qAHKnIDoCw&usg=AFQjCNErYtD8MRT6nb86kOtBLoMM5QqunA&sig2=7dETmKiXr7JwYAMh3cisPw)...:yesgray:

[vt_maverick]

he just wants to have at least one of them before they are banned...

something to shoot for fun, nothing serious.

I don't know, the way folks in Washington are talking I'd worry about having to turn it in for less than I paid for it sometime in the future. They just did a voluntary cash for guns thing in LA and something like 2,000 people showed up. Want to guess how long it will take the feds to try the same thing but make it mandatory? They may never be successful, but you never know...

[WormGod]

I don't know, the way folks in Washington are talking I'd worry about having to turn it in for less than I paid for it sometime in the future. They just did a voluntary cash for guns thing in LA and something like 2,000 people showed up. Want to guess how long it will take the feds to try the same thing but make it mandatory? They may never be successful, but you never know...

Which would work in the most fantastic manner ever. I can just see the criminals with unregistered firearms lining up to turn their weapons into the Fed too. :p

Not trying to change subject. ;)

Anyways, also know that the AR platform is endless when it comes to modification. Whether it be mechanical or aesthetic, the sky is the limit.

[Scott Larson]

When it comes to cheap and reliable, you can't beat an AK47. Piston powered and damn-near impossible to jam. 7.62x39 ammo is very cheap and abundant and I have found with my AK that it is quite accurate too, my Russian SKS takes that accuracy up a notch. Now my Colt AR is no slouch but it cost three times more and can be finicky to fowling due to it's direct impingement gas system. 5.56 ammo also is not as cheap as the 7.62. As others have said though, it is the king of customizable weapons, you can turn it into almost anything! Obviously, personal preference will play a key role in most peoples decision but if I were to choose between the two for a bug out weapon, I'd go with the AK. As for a long-range weapon, I'll go with my Springfield National Match M1A (M14) in 308. I'd go up against almost anyone with that one. (Ok, a Barrett 50 would smoke me!) Just my two cents and I'd like some change back please...:rotate:

[vt_maverick]

Which would work in the most fantastic manner ever. I can just see the criminals with unregistered firearms lining up to turn their weapons into the Fed too. :p

I think you'd be surprised. The cops said a huge percentage of those guns in LA were unregistered - it was an amnesty, "no questions asked" event. Keep in mind a lot of those unregistered firearms started out as legal gun sales but were traded/lost/stolen along the way. Cut off the supply of new weapons, buy back existing weapons, and you at least lower the number of available mass shooting devices out there.

There is obviously no perfect solution to the problem so it will be interesting what pieces and parts being thrown out by gun control advocates and gun rights groups will be welded into a policy.

[Ldub]

Anyways, also know that the AR platform is endless when it comes to modification. Whether it be mechanical or aesthetic, the sky is the limit.

Yep...they don't call em' the "Barbie Doll for grown up men" for nuth'n...:rolleyesg

http://www.smisclub.org/picts/ar15_pic.jpg

[Ldub]

Also, in case anyone is a little fuzzy on the "facts"...:rolleyesg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-EOvH4rVVv6k/T_2FqFe_frI/AAAAAAAAAOU/Ylt-uZxY2Fs/s1600/AR+15.jpg

[bartmanS4]

AR looks cool but if I wanted something to save my life no thanks. Ever wonder why it has a forward assist lever? Cause it jams unless it and it's ammo are clean. AK doesn't have as tight of tolerances so is a little less accurate but won't jam up. I used to carry an M16 A1 and an A2, expensive junk if you ask me. They may have gotten better but the still have a forward assist!

[spaceCADETzoom]

I hate being a know it all...but theres a lot of misinformation being thrown around becaue of what one sees on the history channel. From extensive experience, the AK is just as capable of failure if used by idiots who dont maintain their rifles. I literally got back from training Afghans four weeks ago. You know whats among the most reliable weapons in such places with widespread disrespect of basic rifleman maintenence and cleaning? Lee Enfields.

AFghan Army are armed with M16s. Thier level of jamming decreases with training, and is on par with those with AKs, that the national police are largely armed with. Reliability ismore tied to training than the weapon when it comes to between ak/m16.

As for a forward assist...you realize the ak's forward assist is the fixed charging handle right? The ar15 has a separate one because its charging handle it non reciprocating. Again, from psonal experience, the "forrward assist" is used by untrained riflemen in firefights because they dont know how to clean weapons...I have seen guys kick the Ak handle to chamber or extract. If youve been in the Army, you remember SPORTS, the fwd assist for the m16 is one of those things that is not needed, but for super redundancy. I make no claims to have been in Vietnam...but theM4 is a rock solid weapon. Ive never fired an m16a1 in combat, but i have trained with them. I can tell you reliabilty variables lie with Blanks/bfas, magazines, and (from second hand reading) the different cartridges and terrible training issues they had when the a1 ws first fielded...fifty years ago. Its a different world. Unscientific survey, again, 90% of ftf in the Ar15 is user lack of maintenence. Theres a reason such problems are more widespread (read: virtually confined to) the non-combat personnel...

I love both AK and ar15s for personal use. But, if this were SHTF, as some of you are getting at, think for a minite and realize ar15 parts will be more available, and the common platform with government arms (and ammo) is infinitely more useful than anything the ak would offer... Effective fighting forces,be they insurgents or jackbooted thugs, have weapon uniformity for a reason.

And sorry for the atrocious typos, this i on the ipad, too lazy to get to a pc right now :)

[spaceCADETzoom]

Oh, and if there was question, iraqi and afghan army are fielding brand new FN M16a2 (maybe a3s as well, i don,t remember; either way, they're sticking to iron sights). Just for clarification, they're not vietnam surplus a1s that are fifty years old (those are still used in ROTC, at least as of 6 years ago, hence my only working familiarity with them). They're literally fresh from the box, newer than what the non-combat US Military have slung on super-FOBs (arguably even better maintained). As for the US Army's M4 carbines--the only rifle I've fired in anger. It may as well be a wholly different gun than the a1.

[bartmanS4]

I remember SPORTS LOL! That brings back memories. It always seemed strange to me that they never instructed us to (in my case) to stop with the SPORTS once the jam was cleared. For example most (if not all) jams I experienced were when the round lodged diagonally between the bolt and the chamber as it was fed. The tip of the round would jam against the locking grooves of the chamber (if that makes sense) and the bolt as it slid forward would not have enough umph to push it past that. If I slapped the mag that would allow the round to clear the mag and the bolt would slide home and lock. So instead of SPORTS I would OSS observe, slap, squeeze and this worked almost every time. Come to think of it as I describe this the root cause could have been the mag. This was only in training as I was never in combat and weapons were definitely clean. I've also heard that ammo design may have played a part.
Junk may be too strong a word but I do think the AR is over-engineered and tolerances too tight for a general issue troop weapon. Compare that to the cheaply made mass produced AK that doesn't need the same level of training and maintenance to function effectively.
I think a good analogy would be that Ford may have a racing team but you wouldn't use their racing vehicles for your fleet vehicles. As for SHTF? I'd rather have a shotgun for close in zombie eradication and a sniper rifle for more distant interaction. :bgwb:
BTW I currently have none of the weapons mentioned so everything salted please. My locker only contains a Mini14, SKS, 1911, and a Mustang so what the heck do I know LOL!
Remember:
Rule #1 Cardio

[spaceCADETzoom]

cheaply made mass produced AK that doesn't need the same level of training and maintenance to function effectively.
But that's just the thing. That's a myth. The AK fails just as much as the AR15 if it's used by an incompetent user. I believe this myth continues becaue we like labeling our enemies mere rubes. "Evil soviets and vc are peasant conscripts who cant maintain weapons..." And the opposite as well: "the m16 is junk because we have the best military men in the world, it can't possibly be their lack of maintenence"

(btw, youre right about the mags. Most of the ftf can be attributable to follower tilt, weak springs, etc; we have new tan followers, a change from the last 50 years, that combat this, and the widespread use of aftermarket, personal purchase magazines is widespread. Many, including myself, swear by mags like magpul pmags).

But I think theres a reason ar15s are practically the only rifles used in the action shooting sports. Its the only thing accurate enough for the stages and the customizablity. Using that apt Ford analogy, why would any driver choose that fleet car over the purpose built race car? It's obvious if you want to go to the supermarket and dont like cars, youd lean to the taurus or whatever ford sends to rentacar compaines nowadays. But if you're trying to race? If you're a prfessional race car driver (which I hope you'd equate to the professional US military, or even someone serious about actually firing their rifle in anger)? The idea of SHTF seems even more important than race car driving... Why would one go for less accurate and no Parts commanilty when ones life concievably depended on it? This is not to mention the "men,s Barbie" fact that the Ar15 market is the largest in the industry....dont like .223? get .50 beowulf, .300 blk, even 7.62x39 uppers. Buy into the direct impingement fallacy? Go get a piston upper...they even have longstroke AK copies. Want a 10in SBr? 18inch SPR? 24 in varmint rifle? It's yours. You simply cant do that on the AK platform. Want somethig different than what you bought? You need to buy another gun. For the Ar15, on the other hand, you can spend as little as 50 bucks and have smething different than younstarted with.

I do believe every collection needs at least one AK. But with so many criteria, I don't see it being your first choice. Dependable 762x39? The SKS is a better buy as far as price and ruggedness. Not to mention some plausible future where mags are verbotten, 10 round stripper clips and the ability top off are as effecient and maybe even moreso than detachable mags.

[eblank]

All I have to add to this is, Good luck finding one! All of the shops around me are all sold out of pretty much any "black" rifle or home defense shotgun. I've been wanting an AR but not exactly spewing money at the moment, so I tried buying some 30 round mags (cuz I figure those are the most likely to be banned) and they're sold out EVERYWHERE, and that was in december...

[Ldub]

All I have to add to this is, Good luck finding one! All of the shops around me are all sold out of pretty much any "black" rifle or home defense shotgun. I've been wanting an AR but not exactly spewing money at the moment, so I tried buying some 30 round mags (cuz I figure those are the most likely to be banned) and they're sold out EVERYWHERE, and that was in december...

Yeh dat..

Though what I saw yesterday might sway the OP's opinion.

I stopped by my local outdoor sports store just to see what they had...AR anything? nada...:(

But they DID have 30 rd banana mags AND some drum mags...both for AK's

Of course they were hideously priced. (IIRC, the drums were around $170-180)

[Scott Larson]

Can't help but notice that the brand name "Bushmaster" has become synonymous within the media for "Instrument of death and destruction!" I kinda wonder how the fine folks at Bushmaster feel about that? They say that any publicity is good publicity but still... As for the AK vs AR debate, I stand by what I said; one third the price and more reliable to boot in the real world. Lee-Enfields? I've got three of 'em. A No.1 Mk.III, a No.4 Mk.I and a No.5 Mk.I "Jungle Carbine", all fine weapons but I wouldn't care to carry one into battle...

[JHarris1385]

There seems to be an ever growing market of tactical pistols in the .22lr caliber.

From the Halo-like ridiculous US Firearms Zip
http://www.usfirearms.com/

To
Carl Walther IWI UZI
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=325645229



I do not have an AR or AK but have been reading this thread to learn more. I have always wanted one and now it seems I might need to fulfill that want sooner than later.

[spaceCADETzoom]

Well, I'd like to think Afghanistan the worst the "real world" has to offer. And there are still Lee Enfields from wwi in use to good effect. Hand to heart, guys...the mythical reliabilty of the AK is overblown. And if youre taling a "real world" with people who have not LIVED with their rifles as trained riflemen, I guarntee the enfield would serve you better than any self-loading rifle. Think of it this way: what would you consider more idiot proof and reliable, a pump shotgun or an autoloading shotgun? Which would you give to your trusted neighbor, who's maybe not as well versed in guns, in a SHTF situation? And price? before the current hysteria, an ar15 could be had for $600. A good Ak is more than that. Unless youre talking a WASR...in which case I laugh at your idea of "reliable."

[spaceCADETzoom]

There seems to be an ever growing market of tactical pistols in the .22lr caliber.

From the Halo-like ridiculous US Firearms Zip
http://www.usfirearms.com/

To
Carl Walther IWI UZI
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=325645229



I do not have an AR or AK but have been reading this thread to learn more. I have always wanted one and now it seems I might need to fulfill that want sooner than later.

Just me, but Id steer clear completely. The prices in the evil black rifle realm are simply ridiculous. If I havent disuaded you, I would purposefully seek out MANUFACTUERS or builders (as opposed to gun stores) that have not raised their prices. Furthermore, I'd stockpile lower recievers...you can always buy upper recievers, it's only the lower thats the actual firearm. Lowers are still at their pre hysteria prices of under $300 from rguns. They're backlogged like 8 weeks, but at least they're not jerks like the world thats charging $600 for polymer lowersthat were $120 four weeks ago.

I'd wait until its settled (if ever). Either way, I'd get an SKS because over $1000 for an AK IS RIDICULOUS.

[spaceCADETzoom]

Can't help but notice that the brand name "Bushmaster" has become synonymous within the media for "Instrument of death and destruction!" I kinda wonder how the fine folks at Bushmaster feel about that? They say that any publicity is good publicity but still..
Bushmaster hasnt actually been bushmaster in years. Its just a namebrand now, owned by freedom group. To answer that question, freedom group is trying to cut and run. The guys that WERE bushmaster have a new name at the old factory in Maine. Wyndham something. Theyre slling their old bushmasters with that stamped on the sides.

[Scott Larson]

My pre-ban Norinco AK47 with screw-on AK74 muzzle break was $325.00 in 1994 dollars. My post-ban Colt AR15 with bull barrel was $980.00 in 1995 dollars. Both were bought new and both have been thoroughly wrung out over the years in filthy as well as meticulously maintained conditions with a wide variety of ammo and I've yet to have one misfire with the AK and I've short stroked more rounds then I care to remember with the AR. In my real world, that mythical AK reliability is no myth, just sayin'...:_confused

[JHarris1385]

I am primarily a shotgun skeet/hunt gun owner with a Walther PPKs for conceal.

Only considered getting a .22lr pistol just for fun.

But like I said I really am considering buying an AR of sort, but not at these prices.
What sites would you recommend?

I have always heard the AK is neither great at one thing or bad at one thing...thus reliable. However, the near endless possibilities of the AR platform would keep me interested longer.

[Scott Larson]

Bushmaster hasnt actually been bushmaster in years. Its just a namebrand now, owned by freedom group. To answer that question, freedom group is trying to cut and run. The guys that WERE bushmaster have a new name at the old factory in Maine. Wyndham something. Theyre slling their old bushmasters with that stamped on the sides.

It's not Freedom Group that's doin' the "cut and run", it's their parent company Cerberus that's doin' the cuttin'. Guess they don't like the bad press...In any case, the name is Bushmaster. Windham Weaponry is the AR manufacturer your referring to.

[Scott Larson]

I am primarily a shotgun skeet/hunt gun owner with a Walther PPKs for conceal.

Only considered getting a .22lr pistol just for fun.

But like I said I really am considering buying an AR of sort, but not at these prices.
What sites would you recommend?

I have always heard the AK is neither great at one thing or bad at one thing...thus reliable. However, the near endless possibilities of the AR platform would keep me interested longer.

As spacecadet said earlier, building your own AR is an affordable and doable option. Parts are readily available through a host of online retailers and the only part you are registering is the lower reciever, which means that has to be shipped to an FFL dealer or purchased directly through one, everything else can be shipped to your door. Shotgun News has a vast wealth of info and suppliers for everything you need. There's also the benefit of knowing your rifle inside and out because you built it...:thumbup:

[JHarris1385]

Thanks!

Good thread. Any and all other advice and preferences that follows will be appreciated.

[spaceCADETzoom]

My pre-ban Norinco AK47 with screw-on AK74 muzzle break was $325.00 in 1994 dollars. My post-ban Colt AR15 with bull barrel was $980.00 in 1995 dollars. Both were bought new and both have been thoroughly wrung out over the years in filthy as well as meticulously maintained conditions with a wide variety of ammo and I've yet to have one misfire with the AK and I've short stroked more rounds then I care to remember with the AR. In my real world, that mythical AK reliability is no myth, just sayin'...:_confused

Been debating on whether to hit reply, because I don't want this to devolve into a gun forum. BUt, oh well.

I guess we can agree "real world" is based on anecdotal evidence and personal experience through a straw. My straw is being raised with everything from norincos and maadis through wasr's, yugos and parts bin century's. And of course bushmasters, dpms, one colt, noveske, and countless smaller shops for ar15s (even a few plumcrazy plastic ones!). And to top it off the AK list, the chinese, and indeterminate ak's in Iraq and Afghanistan--utilized in over 35 months of day-to-day living and firing both personally and training BRM to local nationals. Personal experience of the M16a1 all the way through fresh-from-the-box FN M16A3, M4, et al. Both the AK and AR in all conditions from my backyard to "two-way" firing ranges. Had my fair share of failures all around. Few stoppages personal AK or Ar15, in "the backyard," none I actually recall dramatically or specifically. Plenty when I was using weapons on-the-job though, when I was firing something that I didn't "live" with (i.e. qualifying with a weapon I didn't maintain), both AK and AR. Failures among mine privately owned (or my dad's) ran notably less but there were still bad AKs to bad AR15s (olympic comes to mind, dpms too). I'm not naive enough, though, to think all DPMS rifles, for example, are terrible, considering my experience with them was from 20 year old products.

I guess my real world tells me different than the simple "AK GOOD, AR BAD."

I can tell you there's no price advantage right now for anything, because I think anyone who spends more than $1000 for an AK or (off the shelf) AR15 is nuts. But 2010-2012 prices of AR15/AK, on the low end, I don't see it substantially better for the AK. You were looking at $400 WASRs which weren't worth it. ANd $600 AR15s, which were. THen you had $1000 Arsenal AKs which were on par with the AR15, but now you've lost that price advantage.

I think the 1994 prices are off topic, unless you want to bring in the fact at that time you could buy CRATES of Russian tula SKSes for the price of your one Norinco... Either way, there are $2000 AKs AND AR15s being sold right now.

[spaceCADETzoom]

I am primarily a shotgun skeet/hunt gun owner with a Walther PPKs for conceal.

Only considered getting a .22lr pistol just for fun.

But like I said I really am considering buying an AR of sort, but not at these prices.
What sites would you recommend?

I have always heard the AK is neither great at one thing or bad at one thing...thus reliable. However, the near endless possibilities of the AR platform would keep me interested longer.

It's tough to find anything in stock now. http://rguns.net/ is still selling, but they're backlogged something like two months. I only bring them up because they haven't raised prices. I'd suggest staying with complete lowers, because at teh end of the day, lower parts kits for stripped lowers bumps the price back up to a complete one anyway.

Ammo is scarce, too. Have you thought of those AR15 pattern 22 rifles? M&P15/22? Slightly easier to find and the ammo is still cheap and available-ish.

[FlyingV77]

Ford or Chevy? its all the same. It comes down to personal preference. Take care of your weapon and it will take care of you.

[Ldub]

Take care of your weapon and it will take care of you.

Can I use Marvel Mystery Oil on my smoke wagon? or is that a different thread...:confused:..:laughing:

Sorry...:mbrasd:

Must...drink...more...coffee...:smilewink

[BigSwede]

I don't think I would buy either one right now...the market is crazy. Wait a year or so, no sense in paying hundreds more than it is worth right now.

[WormGod]

Ford or Chevy? its all the same. It comes down to personal preference. Take care of your weapon and it will take care of you.

Pretty much.

I have put maybe 3k rounds through my AR since I had it and it has only jammed once, which was remedied in less than 5secs. Though, I have a few mechanical upgrades to improve operation and I clean it more than I bathe (almost true).

Admittedly though, my Ruger 10/22 is my baby. So very far in a different category, but she is as smooth, comfortable, and fun as any plinker can be. And ya, cheap to shoot to boot! ;)

Local MD shops, good luck finding any AR or AK platform rifle. Let alone 7.62 or 5.56 rounds. Heck, I can't even find any .223, and when I do, it's garbage!!! In the extremely rare occasion you can spot one of thje above listed platforms or ammo, you are looking at a near 150-200% mark-up. Gauging due to recent events. :(

[evillecutter]

i suggest he buy at least two of each

[Scott Larson]

Good answer, then ya always gots spares...

[FlyingV77]

Raising a dead thread. MUUHAHAHAHAH!

Anyways Prices are coming down and ammo can be found. check this site out, it updates live.

http://www.gunbot.net/

and M16s suck! :p

[antdag22]

Am

[Ldub]

Pretty much.


Local MD shops, good luck finding any AR or AK platform rifle. Let alone 7.62 or 5.56 rounds. Heck, I can't even find any .223, and when I do, it's garbage!!! In the extremely rare occasion you can spot one of thje above listed platforms or ammo, you are looking at a near 150-200% mark-up. Gauging due to recent events. :(

At least that part is pretty much over, though 22 ammo is still hard to find. I'm seeing AR uppers, lowers, & complete rifles, as well as ammo in the local haberdasheries...:thumbup:

Not just "gun" shops either, Fleet/Farm, Wal-Mart, etc...:yes:

[WormGod]

It all matters little to me now. Since O'Malley (Gov of MD, and pretty much the same douchebag Gov from Walking Dead) decided to ban nearly everything here, mandate fingerprinting and weapon training, and kicking gun manufacturers out of MD (what choice did they really have?), we have been pretty dry of everything. Local gun shops are slowly closing doors since the best they can do is sell posters of guns.

My AR has been resting quietly in the closet. Leaning against the many full ammo cans. Just hoping eventually this lame !@# ban/regulations crap goes away in the near future. Don't get me wrong, it really isn't THAT restricting since I am grandfathered, but it has really hurt the local gun shop and range business. :(

I did however manage to get a ZK-22 conversion for my 10/22 before that !@#$ storm happened (not like it falls into the banned items list). Makes my plinker look like a true Zombie Killer now. ;)

http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/43716-2/redjacket_10-22_bullpup_6083web.jpg

BTW, GunBot is the best! Been using it since I can remember. Life saver.

[Ala5ka]

The above picture features a bull pup conversion on a proven platform..generally less reliable (albeit cooler looking) The person in the picture is a dude from a TV show that I know for a fact is not a real gunsmith. I am a character from a TV show who is a real gunsmith (Wild West AK season 2)

That being said both AR and AK platforms are fun, The Ak is my favorite simply because not everyone at the range has one. I have won many competitions both tactical and production class with my Ak's against AR's. That being said The Ak's I run have been heavily modified and rival the price of most high end AR's. You can have a ton of fun with either rifle.

Never buy cheap, you get what you pay for. Nothing Century Imports. On Ak's headspace is everything, the barrel is pressed in so if it is out of headspace most smith's won't do the work.

Like all things the accuracy of the AK is underrated, and the reliability overrated. They will fail, and they can shoot 1MOA (good ammo, quality parts)

Try not to stray from original concepts in an AR if you go that route i.e.. gas piston, pistol models, crazy calibers, bump fire devices, ridiculous optics.
Forward handgrips kill natural point of aim (only allowable for a SAW operator)

Side note, everyone and their mother has an AR, so there is always someone with one way cooler than yours. Also they don't have any personality.

Rant Conclude...

[Scott Larson]

All good points A5! AR's are versatile, but even they have their limits and yes, everybody and their brother has one, too often decked out with every conceivable doo-dad available to the point of ridiculousness...A nicely made, wood-stocked AK definitely draws some attention and is the epitome of simplicity, and yup, definitely accurate...

[newthings]

Consider the AR-15 in AAC 300 Blackout. Just a barrel change away from 5.56 or two pins away if you have a complete upper. I put a complete upper together over Black Friday for $600. Ammo from Washougal River at $175 for 250 rounds. Even the mags are the same. The AAC 300 Blackout has been a SAMMI standard for some time, not a wildcat.
Roy

[WormGod]

The above picture features a bull pup conversion on a proven platform..generally less reliable (albeit cooler looking) The person in the picture is a dude from a TV show that I know for a fact is not a real gunsmith. I am a character from a TV show who is a real gunsmith (Wild West AK season 2)

Ya, I have seen their show. Silly. Scripted. Fake. This bullpup design is theirs.... but manufactured in China. Some gunsmiths eh? ;) Regardless, thought it was cool looking and I never use my 10/22, so taking a shot (no pun intended). Maybe it will get me to actually USE it now.

Also, via the help of GunBot, manged to get my hands on 1000rds of PMC .223 for $360 this weekend. At $0.37 a rd, that's the cheapest I have been able to buy it for in a while around here.

[FlyingV77]

same thing with Red Jacket. ive heard there stuff is pretty good. but from watching the show, i would never do business with them.

[Ala5ka]

Consider the AR-15 in AAC 300 Blackout. Just a barrel change away from 5.56 or two pins away if you have a complete upper. I put a complete upper together over Black Friday for $600. Ammo from Washougal River at $175 for 250 rounds. Even the mags are the same. The AAC 300 Blackout has been a SAMMI standard for some time, not a wildcat.
Roy

300 blackout is a silly round, without either the ballistics of the .223 or the 7.62x39 but with the price tag of both combined! Feeding issues, stabilization problems, limited range...just another fancy wallet lightening device

stick with the prescribed remedy AR-10=.308 AR-15=5.56/.223 AK-47=7.62x39 never 12g

when we start fiddling with platforms expecting them to be something they are not we end up drastically limiting the effectiveness of the system for example Defender size 1911s (cycling issues) or PUV's (haha)

Long story short there is no "do-it-all" rifle, it's like playing a whole game of golf with a putter.

I may ruffle feathers but this is what I do for a living and I'd hate to see any of my VX buddies wasting money/being under gunned/acting like CoD crazed mall ninjas


For the record, 300 Blackout is fun especially suppressed, but so is 5.7, .243 Shehane, 500 NE, .223 ssm, .457 WW you get what I mean, fun is fun, practical is what you lean on when it's really needed

Have fun, spend your money the way you like, enjoy life

[FlyingV77]

300 Blackout/whisper suppressed is Hollywood quiet! all you can hear is the hammer fall and the ding down range. SWEET!
but yes its expensive. so you should reload this round.
but again its really accurate to 300 yards or so.
if you got the cash, and all your other bases covered go for it.

[nfpgasmask]

See what happens when you aren't here as often as you used to be? You miss cool threads like this!

I am AK through and through. But shooting your buddy's AR is always fun.

Bart

[FlyingV77]

See what happens when you aren't here as often as you used to be? You miss cool threads like this!

I am AK through and through. But shooting your buddy's AR is always fun.

Bart

especially if he paid for the ammo

[EVO]

Just another flavor of ice cream!! Love my AR's have AK's and I find shooting my AK is much cheaper now adays!!

[newthings]

Always happy to stimulate discussion.

300 AAC BLACKOUT round was approved by SAAMI on January 17, 2011.

On October 23, 2011, SSG Daniel Horner of the USAMU used 300 AAC Blackout to win his 4th USPSA Multi-Gun National Championship.

Ammo from Washougal River at $175 for 250 rounds.
Yes, more expensive than bulk 5.56. So?

The weapon IS an AR-15 with a different barrel. No price difference there.

If you have an AR-15, you can have a 300 AAC Blackout for the price of a barrel. I just bought mine in fluted stainless steel for $160.00.

No claims from me for a "Do it All".

Never 12g --Really? My Saiga 12 has a solid place in my life.

Cheers, Roy

[Scott Larson]

12g? I'll take my 1300 Defender side-folder that's tucked away in my dresser drawer with a full tactical loadout and Surefire for close-quarters duty, but heck, you only need one bang to end a home invasion situation. The first two rounds are 4-shot, counting down to slugs after that. If you make it out under your own power, your car won't!

[ohiovx]

I have to say to the original question. You should have BOTH!! The only malfunctions I've had with my AR were magazine related (used military). No problems what so ever with Pmags. I have a Saiga 7.62 that I converted to an AK, because I wanted an actual Russian gun. Also have an AK74, & a Saiga12. In my opinion they all have their place & purpose. I like shooting the AK's (especially with the slide fire stock on it:bwgy:) but I'd have to say I prefer the AR.
Should we start a 9mm vs .45 debate next???

[Hotsauce]

Reliability, accuracy, and investment reasons, I choose HK.

John

[Ala5ka]

Reliability, accuracy, and investment reasons, I choose HK.

John

Hahaha HK "You suck, and we hate you" Overpriced crap. I won't do business with a company that reluctantly sells to me. They may be made nicely but they are no more reliable, or accurate, and they have some of the poorest ergonomics in the game. Cost benefit puts HK on the bottom. Try to get replacement parts sometime, they will treat you like garbage and then maybe not send it to you. They're no more accurate than many others. If you need expensive, foreign, and chic go Sig at least they like their customers.
HK military stuff isn't very good anymore either, but for an investment piece if you can get a good deal it's worth it. The fanboys are willing to trade their first born for that junk, and probably always will be.

PS I wanted to like HK, they killed it for themselves.

Source: I'm a professional gunsmith.

[FlyingV77]

How about 10mm!

[EVO]

BINGO!!!! I use to love HK products, they are sexy as hell and were tactical leaders at one time, but over the decades as they fail you are absolutely correct. Its a high cost no support vendor that kills it for me. I've even played with the newer G36 UMP's and they don't impress me. Still have my P7M8 though!!

[evillecutter]

i think we can all agree that the m60 from rambo first blood part 1 is the way to go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LCQGEXfWDQ

[FlyingV77]

agree I loved my m60 not only did I shed a tear when they took it away and replaced it with a 249. I almost got an article 15 trying to stop them from taking it from the armory. Dam I loved my pig

[Hotsauce]

Ala5ka:

I respect your opinion, I'm sure it is based on your experience.

I also hold a class 1 and 10 FFL.

Let's agree to disagree.

John

[ipd]

THREAD NECRO!!!

My votes are MP7, Tar-21, and and Remington R-51...each for various purposes, of course. :)