Proton Jr...near fixed...but rotational / fan / whirring noise still there

[Baldwin]

So after buying a fellow VX infoer's "not so perfect Proton"...and after $5000+ to repair the dent, repaint faded hood and trunk, torn upper and lower CV joints, master brake cylinder, power steering switch, AC fan, leaking rims/tires, incorrectly cut front bumper, radiator leak, transmission leak, broken engine bracket, and a bunch of smaller stuff, I have one more problem.

There has been this whirring/fan type/rotational sound coming from the dash...but it could be sound transference. The narrowed it down to a wore U-joint. I have the option to replace the entire drive shaft or just the U-joint. $500 for the U-joint or $800 for the drive shaft. Or let it go until it gets really bad and replace later. I also don't know if their diagnosis is really correct. But that's what the VX trusted Isuzu mechanic says and he's got a pretty good reputation here in So. Cal.

Suggestions? I'm low on $. Proton Jr was supposed to arrive in "near perfect" condition and wasn't supposed to cost me $5k+ to get it there. Now it's lookin like another $1000+ to finish up the roof damage, U-joints and other small/annoying items. It's taken almost a year to fix up. Now I know why this member lied about the condition and dumped it. I coulda bought 2 VX's with how much I've dumped into Jr.

[VxSport]

I have not done this project yet....
but... I talked to a shop in Englewood, CO that does nothing but overhaul driveshafts. I usually remove shafts at my house and take them to him. Pickup later in the afternoon. He looked at the underside of the vx, said it shouldn't be a problem to overhaul the u joints. Then they can spin balance the shaft.

[VXorado]

I believe Triathelete replaced his U-joints a while back, maybe ask him how difficult the job was. You can buy new u-joints at indy4x for $40.

Which u-joint, transfer case or diff? The upper U-joint/driveshaft assembly can be easily removed from a Trooper and directly fitted to a VX. I paid $20 last month for an entire trooper driveshaft and the u-joints were in good condition. The top splined section is the exact same as the VX while main part of the shaft is too long. Definitely the cheapest way to go if you need to replace the upper U-joint...

[Y33TREKker]

Are we to assume then that the fan/whirring noise changes relative to rolling speed, and not engine rpm or HVAC blower motor speed?

I'm sure your Isuzu mechanic is trusted as you say, but if the sound you're hearing is in fact being caused by a worn u-joint, $500 to replace it is excessive. With some time, a good shop vice, a medium-sized hammer, some deep-well sockets (or something with the appropriate diameter), some needle nose pliers, lube grease, and some penetrating spray, replacing a u-joint yourself is possible, although admittedly they can be a PITA sometimes.

I don't know what your schedule is like, but before I'd personally pay $500 to have someone else replace a u-joint for me, I'd instead take that money, buy a good quality replacement (the ones from indy4X VXorado mentioned for instance), do the work myself, and use the $400 or so dollars you save for something else.

[MSHardeman]

Like Trekker said, does the sound vary by engine speed or road speed? If it is, in fact, a whirring/fan sound it may just be the blower fan under the dash board. Every now and then, mine will come in contact with something and make a ticking sound until whatever it was gets out of the way. Maybe the bearings on the blower fan are going out and that is what's making the noise.:_confused

[Breezy]

This the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of. The whirring noise is the blower motor for the heater. You can fix it by removing the glovebox and replacing the blower motor. It went out when I had it and I put in an after market blower and it hummed. It was pointed out in one of the 12 videos describing the vehicle I posted before selling it. Please save yourself some money and stop letting your Isuzu dealer butt-rape you for all you're worth. Total nonsense. It takes less than half an hour to pull that part and put in a new one. All you need is maybe a small wrench and a screw driver.

Or you can pay someone thousands more dollars to fix things that aren't broken. I spent more time under the hood of that VX than anyone else every will. And laying in the dirt underneath it tinkering and fixing things and learning about it and exploring and understanding it. I wouldn't be surprised to get on here one day and see complaints about the dealership saying the VX's blinker fluid reservoir has run dry and caused a rod to start knocking in the rear differential. Buy a tool set and stop letting them ride you.

[Baldwin]

The sound whirring sound goes up with speed not RPM. The AC blower was fixed which also made a noise, and yeah, that was an easy fix. Noticed it was an aftermarket and wired incorrectly. Was able to get a new OEM one and replaced it. So it's not the AC blower. That's nice an quiet now. Easiest and loudest to hear this whirring noise when letting off the gas. It's noticeable starting at 10 mph and loudest at highway speeds. Time I have is pretty much none working 70+ hrs/week. I did as much as I could on my own over the last 9 months but I also don't have the space. We live in a small apt here in LA. Jr is almost there though. Will take a look to see how bad it looks when i get a chance to get back to the shop and access it. I used to be a QA engineer at Toyota so maybe I'm just picky since I listened for a lot of things. But everyone that's ridden in Jr. totally noticed it too...especially when they've also been in Sr. Big difference. Only good thing is the nice rumble from the flow master to hide some of the other sounds. LOL.

[LittleBeast]

Uh, if the suspension has been lifted this sounds exactly like pinion angle noise. Only
Fix is to rotate diff pinion to match transfer case pinion. After lift the pinion angles are not the same which causes driveline vibration which can be heard and/or felt at different places and different spots along the driveline and /or driveshaft. If this happens more or less if you just let off the gas I would suspect incorrect pinion angle due to lift.

Replacing and rebuilding u-joints is like putting a band-aid on the real problem which is realigning your pinion angles after suspension lift. My driveline shop just replaced both U-joints and lengthen the driveshaft 1" installed a custom rubber sleeve to protect spline shaft and high speed balanced all for $250. What in the world does he think he is gonna do that is worth $500? Haha.

I just set my parking brake and took mine off myself in 10 minutes and hand delivered it. This is not a hard process really. But if you want to fix your probable pinion angle issue the only quick fix is adjustable lower links, and lengthen lower links 0.5"-1".

If this is not lifted at all replacing your U-joints should be at or under $200.

[Baldwin]

Thanks Little Beast. Very helpful. No, this VX is not lifted.

[tom4bren]

Jack up the front end & try to tilt each front wheel top to bottom. You may have a bad bearing.

[Y33TREKker]

Thanks Little Beast. Very helpful. No, this VX is not lifted.
If the problem does turn out to be u-joint(s), but you don't have access to the tools/facility to do the work yourself, a good option might be to just take the drive shaft off yourself as LittleBeast described, then take it to another shop that will do the work for a more reasonable price.

I'm sure you've experienced it for yourself, but many of the people who've seen my VX have automatically assumed that it's some sort of new and exotic (read high-priced) vehicle, and that since I'm driving it, I must have more $$$ than I know what to do with. You can take that visual connection (true or not) out of the equation though by taking your drive shaft and the new replacements into a shop yourself, and possibly save yourself a sizable chunk of change. And walking in with your drive shaft and replacement parts will also show the people in the shop that you're no stranger to doing mechanical work yourself, making it less likely that they'll think they can overcharge you for simply replacing the u-joint(s).

[Baldwin]

good suggestions. I shook the wheels when replacing the rims and didn't notice anything loose. I wonder if Merlin can get an OEM driveshaft at a good price or if I should go aftermarket.

[Triathlete]

A u joint tip...
the front and rear are different sizes on the rear shaft.
For the front shaft I could not find anywhere that would/could rebuild them...I bought a used trooper shaft for $70, works/fits great.

[Baldwin]

So I did take off the shaft and man, it's pretty nasty looking. All rusted out and one of the u-joints has bearings that are shot and no grease in it at all. I looked at my records of when I first got Jr and took it to my wife's mechanic and he did the used car inspection report. It did indeed say that the ujoints were completely rusted and out of grease. So the Isuzu VX tech confirmed the same thing. I'm gonna shoot some grease in it temporarily and see if that helps the issue a bit since there's a zirk fitting on the U-joints. Will check with Merlin to see how much he sells a new drive shaft for.

[Baldwin]

A u joint tip...
.I bought a used trooper shaft for $70, works/fits great.

Doesn't the trooper have a longer wheel base? Will it really work on a VX? I see one on Ebay now. Can't tell the length based on the pics.

[Triathlete]

The trooper shaft I used was for the front...don't know about the rear. If your shaft is okay you can just replace the joints on the rear.

[Y33TREKker]

...Will check with Merlin to see how much he sells a new drive shaft for.

...If your shaft is okay you can just replace the joints on the rear.
Agreed, there's no reason to replace the entire drive shaft if there is obviously a u-joint that has gone bad.

That's not saying that the u-joint being faulty for a period of time may not have resulted in the yoke itself becoming damaged in the process, but even having the u-joint replaced, having the integrity of the yoke inspected, and re-balancing the shaft (if necessary) would most likely still be less expensive than buying a totally new drive shaft replacement. U-joints are designed to be a replaceable component after all.

[Baldwin]

Merlin said the U-joints are 6-8 weeks out. ABout $100 each with our 15% discount. Haven't found a place yet that sells or installs aftermarket U-Joints.

[Y33TREKker]

Generic auto parts stores like Autozone carry replacement u-joints. I just did an online search, and my local Autozone carried between 5-10 different versions...and I live on the outskirts of middle-of-nowhere USA. ;) Although...when buying parts at places like Autozone, I WOULD pay a little extra and go with a higher quality part like MOOG or equivalent.

And short of going to a name brand dealership, any locally owned auto repair shop should be able to do the work. All due respect, but as an engineer I think you may just be over-thinking this particular repair a little. Just my opinion though.

[Baldwin]

Thanks. I thought the exact same thing. But went to Autozone and they said they didnt' have any that would fit! Also went to the O-Reilly's. So yeah...tryin' not to think too hard, but not havin' luck. Wanted to do it myself cuz the repair shops are askin' for $400-$500 just for the U-joints. I'll find some eventually I'm sure. Got a lot on my plate right now.

[Baldwin]

HOME / REPLACEMENT PARTS / DRIVETRAIN / U-JOINT - PERFORMANCE
We're sorry, but there are no results in this parts category for 2000 Isuzu Vehicross 4WD 6 Cylinders 3.5L MFI DOHC that match "u joint". Please select another vehicle or click on the Parts tab at the top of the page to see the available parts for this vehicle.

[Y33TREKker]

HOME / REPLACEMENT PARTS / DRIVETRAIN / U-JOINT - PERFORMANCE
We're sorry, but there are no results in this parts category for 2000 Isuzu Vehicross 4WD 6 Cylinders 3.5L MFI DOHC that match "u joint". Please select another vehicle or click on the Parts tab at the top of the page to see the available parts for this vehicle.
I hope it's understood I'm not trying to second guess or anything like that, especially with my over-thinking comment. Out of curiosity though, is it possible that result was referring to "In Stock" parts?

When you're talking about a vehicle that is over ten years old, not many parts stores are still going to be keeping those parts in stock on a daily basis. It just doesn't make sense from a business standpoint to do so. I know that's the way it is at my local Autozone anyway. Most parts inquiries I make for vehicles that long out of production are only available the next day after they're delivered to the store overnight from the "warehouse".

Anyway, I'll shut up now. :p

[Baldwin]

Like I said...Isuzu is 8 weeks out. Aftermarket places tell me to call "Drive Line Shops". I call the local ones and they won't quote me anything unless I bring it in. I get off work after they close and before they open. Online parts search is (-). Not able to overthink on this issue cuz I don't have the time. Wish I did. All I want is a U-joint to replace the worn out one that came with the fixer upper I just got. Was just hoping to get a quick answer from the forum of where I can get it and wasn't ashamed to ask for help. Yes, I may be an engineer, but I never claim to know everything nor do I expect everyone to know all the things I know. All I can do is try to offer help as well when I can. So if someone does have a good answer, cool. Thanks. Otherwise, it'll get fixed eventually. I have my OG VX that runs perfectly in the meantime. Thanks again to all the responses.

[Triathlete]

When it comes to chain stores the best place I have found for the VX is BAP Auto Parts. They specialize in imports.
Also Indy4x used to have the ujoints in stock...might give Matt a call.

[Baldwin]

Thanks. Will do.

[tom4bren]

I was getting my DD inspected on Friday. This was at a local heavy equipment shop (I use them for all of my inspections since they are the only ones in my area that can do the inspection on the RV). Anyway, I was talking to the guy at the counter about the VX & mentioned the difficulty in locating the CV joints. They must have a pretty tight working relationship with NAPA because he pulled up a listing of 4 Passenger and 2 Driver assemblies in stock. They were listed as OEM equivalent.

I don't know if they are the Tripod design or Rzeppa but it's another source you could check out.

[Y33TREKker]

Like I said...
I was only basing my over-thinking comment on having personally worked with a variety of engineers in different electromechanical fields. Nothing personal, I've just seen how some engineers tend to go about addressing a repair project.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmMzlehzU8c

:p

I've never ordered anything online from NAPA, but I did bring up Autozone again just now, and along with being able to get results for in-store inventory at the store you enter your zip code for, they also offer a "Ship to Home" service. (I still think you could do this one yourself with a few basic tools, but that's just me.)

All I can do is try to offer help as well when I can too.

[tom4bren]

... I did bring up Autozone again just now, and along with being able to get results for in-store inventory at the store you enter your zip code for ...

I wouldn't trust that. A couple of years ago when I tried that, they listed the part I needed in stock at the store nearest my house. An hour later when I checked at the store they told me that not only was the part NOT in stock, but also that they could not order it for me.

[Y33TREKker]

I wouldn't trust that. A couple of years ago when I tried that, they listed the part I needed in stock at the store nearest my house. An hour later when I checked at the store they told me that not only was the part NOT in stock, but also that they could not order it for me.
That might also go back to the "we can have it here from the warehouse by tomorrow" aspect of actually keeping parts in stock for vehicles as old as ours though too. And when ordering a part online, it seems that most searchable parts databases look pretty similar, meaning that they're probably all connected to some of the same "warehouses", which are usually district suppliers, not just local. Only one way to find out though.

[tom4bren]

That might also go back to the "we can have it here from the warehouse by tomorrow" aspect of actually keeping parts in stock for vehicles as old as ours though too. And when ordering a part online, it seems that most searchable parts databases look pretty similar, meaning that they're probably all connected to some of the same "warehouses", which are usually district suppliers, not just local. Only one way to find out though.

Yah, it's worth a shot. Just don't go into it with false expectations of success.

[Y33TREKker]

Are you and I going to start this again? :p


Yah, it's worth a shot. Just don't go into it with false expectations of success.
That's why I said "That might also go back..." and "Only one way to find out though."

And besides, when it's a u-joint, how un-realistic can it really be?

[tom4bren]

Are you and I going to start this again? :p


What??? You don't like being in violent agreement?

[Y33TREKker]

What??? You don't like being in violent agreement?
So that was your idea of agreement? OK then. ;)

[tom4bren]

Yah, it's worth a shot. Just don't go into it with false expectations of success.


That's why I said "That might also go back..." and "Only one way to find out though."

According to an online dictionary:

1. the act of agreeing or of coming to a mutual arrangement.
2. the state of being in accord.
3. an arrangement that is accepted by all parties to a transaction.
4. a contract or other document delineating such an arrangement.
5. unanimity of opinion; harmony in feeling

This one seems to have #2 written all over it (pun intended). We're sayin nearly the same thing using different words (I'm just shy of being positive & you're just shy of being negative).

So in the interest of ending the Thread-Jack I'll make this my last entry. The mental exercise is fatiguing me & your Mama should have taught you years ago to never play mind games with an unarmed man.

:):):):):)

[Y33TREKker]

Agreed...on the thread jack over part anyway. :bwgy: