Warning!!! Fix those leaky steering hoses/boxes

[Triathlete]

The leaking fluid likes to run down into the control arm bushings and accelerates their deterioration! Ask me how I know.:(

On this subject...after changing said hoses what is the procedure for bleeding the system?
I will be doing hoses, upper and lower bushings, and sway bar bushings real soon.

[RodL]

Have you gotten the hoses yet? I plan to do the same thing when I get back home. Don't know if I have control arm bushing problems yet but the little spots under the front won't do in the garage at home. Have used the Lucas product since finding the leak, about two small bottles since the leak was reported. (or 4000 miles). So far I haven't found the exact spot of the leak.

Rod

[tom4bren]

...after changing said hoses what is the procedure for bleeding the system?

Billy,

If I understand the system correctly, you don't need to bleed it after changing the hoses. Since it's a hydraulic pump system, the air will work it's way up into the reservoir fairly quickly. You'll just need to keep an eye on the fluid level the first day to make sure that there is enough fluid to take the place of the air that escapes. Then keep an eye on the entire system (hoses, pump, reservoir, connections) for a few weeks to make sure there aren't any leaks.

It's not like the brakes where you basically have a closed system (even though it has a reservoir too). In that system you keep using the same small amount of brake fluid over and over again. In the power steering case, all/most of the fluid gets used all the time. That's why the 2 fluids are different, one is designed for circulation & one is designed for compression.

In simple terms, the braking system most closely resembles a floor jack, while the power steering system more closely resembles an automatic transmission (at least in terms of how the fluid is used).

I thought I was wrong once but that was a mistake ... but I'm open for someone to convince me for the first time.:)

[Leon R]

My Mitsubishi's PS system is bled by revving the engine to 3-4k rpm while rotating the steering wheel lock to lock a couple of times. I was going to do the same on my VX.

BTW, I also have a hose on order :). This must be a common failure at THIS time!

[Triathlete]

Thanks for the info guys. Rod, I have not done the hoses yet. Ordering them Monday. The hose end fitting is a common leak source I have been told. It is about a 4 hour job because of lack of access.

[tom4bren]

My Mitsubishi's PS system is bled by revving the engine to 3-4k rpm while rotating the steering wheel lock to lock a couple of times. I was going to do the same on my VX.

:freek:

I'd never run an unloaded engine above 2K ... but that's just me:)

:whiteflag:

Not to be an anal retentive enginerd but TECHNICALLY what you describe is not 'bleeding'. Bleeding is the process of opening a closed system to allow air to escape.

What you describe more closely resembles 'burping' like you would do on your cooling system.

Here, lemme help you out -

:slap:

I'd absolutely do what you describe though ('cept at a lower rpm) before taking the beastie out on the road.

[Leon R]

I'd never run an unloaded engine above 2K ... but that's just me:).

So, what you are saying is that unloaded engine at 4k prm is seeing MORE stress than loaded engine at 4k?



Bleeding is the process of opening a closed system to allow air to escape.

It escapes, all right... into the top of the PS fluid reservoir! :rotate:

Burping could be another way to describe it.

[tom4bren]

So, what you are saying is that unloaded engine at 4k prm is seeing MORE stress than loaded engine at 4k?

UMM ... not really stress per say.

I've not reasearched it but by the 'seat o me pants' experience it's more of a vibration thang rather than something measureable.

An engine running at 4K down the road will sound as smooth as a baby's butt (as long as it's running right) because that's what it's designed to do.

Park the same car with the same engine in the driveway & run the engine up to 4K & it just doesn't sound right. There's a lot more vibration because all of the gear backlash & bearing runouts have all been designed to work properly under load. To me the engine just sounds like it's chewing itself up from the inside. Mebbe it is, mebbe it isn't. I've just learnt that sound is a very good indicator that you should or shouldn't be doing something.

Having said all that though, I posted in a long ago thread the same logic dictates that you shouldn't run locking hubs on a TOD equipped vehicle. I've been running them for 3 years now:) No, I wasn't wrong, I just changed my perspective.

BTW, on my 03 Eclipse, I notice a marked increase in engine vibration right around 2300 (probably because my timing belt tensioner is bad). On my Wife's 04, the change in vibration happens right around 3K. You just gotta feel your way through each vehicle. Since my 03 has 190K on it & still running, I must be doing something right ... right?

[Gizmo42]

Not sure on yours with a steering box but on rodeos with R&P steering you just let it idle while rotating the wheels back and forth. Do it several times and eventually all the fluid has been run through at least once. Dont go all the way to the bumpstop, just close to it. When you hit the bump stop the system over pressurizes and opens the bypass valve in the pump so its not pushing any through the system at that point.

Billy, you might want to let a shop do the lower bushings. I know Steve fought with his for quite a while before putting it all back together and taking it to a shop. The shop I took mine to hammered, torched, and pressed for 8 hrs to do mine and I was told to NEVER bring another damn isuzu to them for lower bushings. The rear lower ones are pressed into the frame and are a biatch to do.

[Triathlete]

I did the pass. side uppers before. I pulled the arm and took it to a machine shop. The used their press and took the old out and new in in about 15 minutes. I will take them to them again.

[Gizmo42]

Uppers are a cake walk, lowers just suck b***s.

[bartmanS4]

FYI to those that need to replace the power steering HP hose. I ordered the replacement hose through Rockauto and the hose is correct but the copper crush washers are not the right size. Travis had the same problem but I don't know where he ordered his hose from. If new crush washers are needed you can order a steering pump rebuild kit from O'Riellys for under $20. This comes with the proper sized washers, a few o-rings, and a gasket. I used two of the o-rings and discarded (saved in a pile of stuff that I never throw away) the rest of the kit. I found that removing the pulley allowed access to get a wrench on the hex part of the pump that the HP line attaches to. I did not remove the pump itself. Now that I know how to do it it's not that bad but while I was doing it I was thinking I'd rather just pay someone else to do it.

[RodL]

Getting ready to do mine. I looked at it real close today, but really couldn't find a nice place to start. It's my only driver right now so I don't want it out of commission while waiting on parts. Did you do it all from the top or is there a way to better attack from under the vehicle. I have a hoist available to me on the weekends after 11am on Saturday until 7am Monday. Been a while since I have twisted many wrenches. Thanks in advance for any photos or suggestions.

Rod

https://plus.google.com/photos/101351212510298499646/albums/5887230720872652065?authkey=CObA3Oewk5LyWw

[bartmanS4]

Did you do it all from the top or is there a way to better attack from under the vehicle.

I worked both from above and through the wheel well. Pulled the driver side wheel and skirt, removed the airbox and MAF, loosened the belt and removed the pulley off the pump. This gave just enough room to get a wide mouth adj wrench on the 24mm hex part on the pump side of the hose and a 24mm closed end wrench on the outside hex.
Use a crows foot 19mm and an open 19mm for the other end of the hose. I disconnected/connected this first. Would have been even tougher to try and connect this after the pump end was already connected.

Oh yeah, remember to connect the MAF back up after you put everything back together. Car runs like crap if you forget this. :mbrasd:

[RodL]

Thanks BartmanS4, good information. I don't have any crows foot so will need to invest or rent. Good call on the MAF too. I would have forgotten it.

Rod

[bartmanS4]

You can get a cheap crows foot set for $10 right now at Harbor Freight
http://www.harborfreight.com/7-piece-3-8-eighth-inch-crowfoot-metric-wrench-set-94427.html

[Leon R]

I worked both from above and through the wheel well. Pulled the driver side wheel and skirt, removed the airbox and MAF, loosened the belt and removed the pulley off the pump. This gave just enough room to get a wide mouth adj wrench on the 24mm hex part on the pump side of the hose and a 24mm closed end wrench on the outside hex.


So, are there two 24mm hex's to be loosened on the pump side of the hose? I can't quite see it.