Water our worst enemy.

[Pepino]

Ok so It's been a while since I have opened a thread here.
This is the first time I have problems with my VX other than the window problems.
Water seemed to be the problem then everything was fine.

So a couple of weeks ago I went to a night offorading expedition with a group of jeeps. Everything was fine. We went upstream inside a pretty shallow river, then came a big hole that I got dragged into and could not get out.
HEre is the Pic

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/20130427_205932_zpsec42f76b.jpg

Passenger side was inside the water, drivers side was somewhat inside the water but not as much. Water was getting inside the car but no big deal. Tried reversing and accelerating to get out but couldnt. Checked my dashboard, Check Engine light was on, ABS light was on and TOD check light was on. My friend pulled me out, we kept going on the trail with no problems other than the warning lights on, I thought it could be wet sensors.

About half an hour later, ABS light and Check engine light turned off, I was relieved since I checked the Air Filter and it was dry and also checked the alternator and it was perfectly dry.
TOD light was still on but It seemed to work perfectly fine in 4L and 4H So I didnt worry much.

Then a couple of miles in the trail I notice the engine accelerating everytime I pressed the brake pedal. If I was in Drive and I pressed the brake pedal to the point where the Shift lever lock was disengaged the car would accelerate so I had to press it harder so I would stop. Same thing wouldhappen in Neutral and in Parking, engine would rev up to about 2000 RPM.
Then I noticed that everytime I turned the lights off same thing happened which made me think it was an electrical issue and would stop later on.

Finished the trail at about 5am went back home drove the VX a day later and yes that problem stopped and has not happened again since then.
TOD light kept Flashing on my way home, sometimes 15 times, sometimes 4 times, sometimes 20 times but still seemed to be working fine even driving 70mph on the highway. I felt like the light was trying to tell me something like in Morse Code which I am pretty sure I was right but then after a couple days TOD Check light came off and had no problems.

Then Yesterday, I took the VX out after a couple of weeks letting it dry, took my Girfriend to her house and the moment I started driving off Vx started acting weird. I pressed the accelerator and RPMs went up and down, like if it was trying to accelarate but something was stopping it second after second, under light accelaration everything was fine but the moment I tried pressing the accelerator a little bit more then that would start happening again, even If I was going 20mph or 50mph It felt like the engine was dying. Check Engine light came on again. I remembered my airfilter was really dirty so I got home, cleaned it, washed it and oiled it like I always do. Seemed to Fix the problem eventhough the Check Engine Light was still On but then It happened again and again and again, I put it in Park and open the hood took the Air filter out and engine starte ddoing the same withoutme pressing the accelerator until it turned off. I turned it back on without a problem.

So this long thread for what?
Does anyone have any Idea what could be the problem?
I am taking my VX to my mechanic today, see what code it throws out. I will let you know If we solve the problem or If I need some more input from you guys.

Here are some more pictures of another trail for your entretainment while you wait for MOAB pictures.



http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/320853_10151459572223492_464384327_n.jpg

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/164221_10151459574513492_1706239204_n1.jpg

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/935229_10151459571778492_1401325789_n.jpg

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/922683_10151459577083492_1907818918_n.jpg

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/524639_10151459576138492_591114468_n.jpg

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/253371_10151459571713492_1188093351_n.jpg

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/166196_10151459571823492_128379263_n.jpg

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/164931_10151459572298492_453416297_n.jpg

[tom4bren]

Well, your TOD computer is under your passenger seat so that could explain the TOD warning lights you were having on the trail & the drive home.

As for the rev issue: Check your TPS, FPR ... prolly change your fuel filter too so you can rule that out.

As for the lack of power to the wheels: I'd start with fluid change in the tranny, transfer case & both pumpkins just to make sure they are not contaminated with water.

Those are just starting points. Unless your mechanic can find a problem, it'll prolly be trial & error till you find the right component that was damaged.

[Marlin]

Your main fuse box and relays are on the passenger side as well, not sure how deep in the engine bay it got on the side, but could be a culprit there, and it will take a while to dry out, try opening it up and checking.

[Pepino]

Thanks for the help, Took the VX to my Mechanic threw a MAF code, and two codes with something about Oxygen sensor. Still waiting for the complete diagnostic to see what is wrong.

[TheGanzman]

...Still waiting for the complete diagnostic to see what is wrong.

What is "wrong" is that you're using the vehicle for things that the Izusu designers and engineers never DREAMED you (or anyone ELSE!) would be using it for, and subjecting it to elements that it was categorically not DESIGNED to withstand - that's what is "wrong"...:(

Sorry Kids - Pops here, bringing you back to Reality. You wanna do this kinda stuff to a VX, you're gonna be spending some $ - an inordinant amount - to keep it running. Go buy a first generation Hummer for this kinda "torture test" abuse! Rant off now - back to your regularly-scheduled programming...:o

[EVO]

That many codes may be caused by your battery cables and posts corroading, try popping them off and cleaning them inside and out and reinstalling and properly torqueing back up!! You'd be surprised at how much stuff grows on them terminals!! Goodluck!!

[tom4bren]

What is "wrong" is that you're using the vehicle for things that the Izusu designers and engineers never DREAMED you (or anyone ELSE!) would be using it for, and subjecting it to elements that it was categorically not DESIGNED to withstand - that's what is "wrong"...:(

Sorry Kids - Pops here, bringing you back to Reality. You wanna do this kinda stuff to a VX, you're gonna be spending some $ - an inordinant amount - to keep it running. Go buy a first generation Hummer for this kinda "torture test" abuse! Rant off now - back to your regularly-scheduled programming...:o

AWWWW, let the boy play with his toy. If you're not fixing something, then you're not using it as it was intended to be used.:)

As far as I'm concerned, the only 2 things that the VX was not intended to be used for is swimming & jumping. While I wouldn't intentionally subject BZBZZZ to those, I may end up finding myself in the situation eventually where it might happen; I do know that others do it on a fairly frequent basis.

ROFL ... Just last weekend, Wifey & Boy were trying to hide a 24" crack in the windshield from me (they thought I'd be mad). Windshields crack even without abuse. Accept it ... fix it ... have fun with it. Boy wasn't expecting me to be mad about the scratched up headlights that had just been polished 2 months ago (good thing I can laugh about it now though).

[EVO]

For Real!!! He looks like knows how to wheel his puppy around and have fun while doing it!! No Regrets just do it!!

[Pepino]

What is "wrong" is that you're using the vehicle for things that the Izusu designers and engineers never DREAMED you (or anyone ELSE!) would be using it for, and subjecting it to elements that it was categorically not DESIGNED to withstand - that's what is "wrong"...:(

Sorry Kids - Pops here, bringing you back to Reality. You wanna do this kinda stuff to a VX, you're gonna be spending some $ - an inordinant amount - to keep it running. Go buy a first generation Hummer for this kinda "torture test" abuse! Rant off now - back to your regularly-scheduled programming...:o

Nobody was complaingin about the damage or the problems I had with my VX, I was just asking for help diagnosting the problem before I took it to a mechanic. What is actually wrong is not taking your VX where it can actually go, what is wrong is wasting such a capable vehicle and letting it sit and being driven only on pavement.

I like the VX, I dont need to buy a first generation hummer, and Yes I will spend all the money I can to keep it running and to keep breaking it, thats why I bought my VX in the first place.:yeso::yeso::yeso:

You cant go wheeling expecting everything is going to be perfect every single time.

[Pepino]

For Real!!! He looks like knows how to wheel his puppy around and have fun while doing it!! No Regrets just do it!!

Thank you, will check the terminals, and yes I do have fun wheeling it every chance I get. I see you also race, racing is my second favorite hobby after wheeling. Love your EVO

[Vendetta]

I drive the hell out of my VX. Sometimes past the threshold of what some might call "abuse." Like the time (http://vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=23161) I sent the ol' girl airborne, repeatedly, over a series of dips and bumps to ummm, "test out" my new shocks and torsion bars. Or when I drove it along the south shore of LI in the hours leading up to Hurricane Sandy, through some serious brackish. Immediately followed by a thorough bathing through freshwater puddles of course.

And speaking of, this past weekend saw some serious flash flooding here on The Island. I was driving blind for about five seconds at one point. Terrifying, but you gotta keep moving when it's that deep. Thankfully I was on a straight stretch and there were no others around.

Anyway - later that day, when I restarted her to go out again, the ABS light came on. I'd never seen it before - luckily enough. Figured my gear was soaked and it would go off on its own eventually. Especially after all the nightmare ABS light scenarios I've read on here.

Turns out I was right, a few hard brakes and a restart and the light went right off.

But yeah, water IS kinda our worst enemy I imagine.

-V

[etlsport]

Check the voltage at the alternator and battery when the vx is running. When my alternator went i had similar symptoms but it didn't die because the alternator was overcharging. It was around 17-20V at the ecu.

You can try removing the serpentine belt and running it . If that solves your problem then you know its the alternator.

[Pepino]

Check the voltage at the alternator and battery when the vx is running. When my alternator went i had similar symptoms but it didn't die because the alternator was overcharging. It was around 17-20V at the ecu.

You can try removing the serpentine belt and running it . If that solves your problem then you know its the alternator.

Thank you! will check on that see how it goes!

[EVO]

Thank you, will check the terminals, and yes I do have fun wheeling it every chance I get. I see you also race, racing is my second favorite hobby after wheeling. Love your EVO

Yeah the EVO is crazy Fun too, but its a different lifestyle! Funny I have'nt driven my EVO in a month and I don't miss it!! My current toy keeps me busy! :yesy:

[Pepino]

OK so I tried everything you guys told me to try, nothing changed, I cleaned the MAF, code went away.
Still having the weird erratic accelerations and slowing downs. Mechanich told me the Catalitic Converter seems to be blocked. So new catalitic converter or going Decat with another resonator to lower the noise.
Could also create a complete exhaust system Ill see what I do later on.
Now, since I went into deep water and I am 100% sure the exhaust was underwater is there any chance that water could have ran all the way to the cat converter?
What other things could have blocked my cat?
Mechanic says after letting the VX running and not moving, catalityc converter starts glowing red of how hot it gets. I still have to see it in person.

[tom4bren]

Now, since I went into deep water and I am 100% sure the exhaust was underwater is there any chance that water could have ran all the way to the cat converter?
What other things could have blocked my cat?
Mechanic says after letting the VX running and not moving, catalityc converter starts glowing red of how hot it gets. I still have to see it in person.

Not likely that water backed up into your cat unless you turned off the engine whilst it was under water. The exhaust pressure would have kept it from flowing that far up the system. If you turned your engine off, then absolutely it could have.

Yes, the cat can get cherry red ... but it usually doesn't. Even if it's not cherry red, it's still HOT!!!!. That's one of the issues with 'swimming' any cat equipped vehicle. Hitting the cold water with a hot cat can cause some really wonky things to happen. Metal just doesn't like to be cooled that rapidly.

IIRC, the way a cat works is that it contains rare metals (platinum I think) that react with the exhaust gasses. The chemical reaction causes the heat that is used to burn up any unspent fuel and other nasty stuff that isn't supposed to be in our atmosphere. Hence the name catalytic converter ... or catalyst. Believe it or not, the cat is actually sacraficial in that regard. It will eventually use itself up. They are designed however to not get used up for a long, long time (hopefully the life of the vehicle).

[subject47]

I have had my vx swimming with water 6 inches up the windshield. I have a snorkel so it can still breath never had any issues with idle and random acceleration. I however have sealed my fuse box intake coil packs pretty much anything Electrical I could think of.

However any leak in the exhaust while under water can allow water to back up from the tail pipe because the pressure escapes through the leak. It only takes a small amount of water to shatter a nice hot converter the are porcelain after all and yes they do have platinum in them. Water up the tail pipe is a ricer trick to de cat a car. Couple of things about a clogged/shattered cat if its shattered you should be able to shake it and hear it rattle unless it all fell out. A clogged cat can leave the exhaust smelling like rotten eggs.

A red hot cat can also indicates you could be running very rich. Since the extra heat in a cat is caused by the chemical reaction burning the fuel. Have you checked to see if you have water in your spark plug wells

[Pepino]

Not likely that water backed up into your cat unless you turned off the engine whilst it was under water. The exhaust pressure would have kept it from flowing that far up the system. If you turned your engine off, then absolutely it could have.



oops.. I did turn it off while underwater.


However any leak in the exhaust while under water can allow water to back up from the tail pipe because the pressure escapes through the leak. It only takes a small amount of water to shatter a nice hot converter the are porcelain after all and yes they do have platinum in them. Water up the tail pipe is a ricer trick to de cat a car. Couple of things about a clogged/shattered cat if its shattered you should be able to shake it and hear it rattle unless it all fell out. A clogged cat can leave the exhaust smelling like rotten eggs.

Yes maybe I also had a leak, first offroad trip, broke the exhaust system, had it welded back but it might not have been a perfect seal. Yes the mechanic said something about all the porcelain being broken or gone or something like that. Will look for an after market cat, or maybe go decat. Maybe Ill get a couple horsepower.

Thank you guys, will keep you informed.

[tom4bren]

yah. Unless you are in a real bad stuck ... & will be for more than 30 minutes, you're probably better off leaving it running.

I just went back and re-read your original post & I hafta agree. Sounds like a clogged cat.

[Marlin]

That is actually good news, easy to fix, no electrical gremlins to spend months chasing. Good luck! As for decat,be careful, it is illegal:(

[Pepino]

That is actually good news, easy to fix, no electrical gremlins to spend months chasing. Good luck! As for decat,be careful, it is illegal:(

I´m not to worried about the legal consecuences, I am more worried about th ecological consecuences but I mean since I am already getting 10mpg I feel like I am driving a Ferrari at full speed all the time and burning and burning gas all the time. My Focus RS is decat too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJugNII9ktg

This same exhaust

[Pepino]

If I go de-cat will I get a Code sent out? Check Engine light?

[Pepino]

Got back my VX from the mechanic today. Went the de-cat way for now, no code was thrown, cleaned MAF sensor and everything. Mechanic tested it with no problem.
Took it back home and everything was fine, then all the problems came back. Managed to get a video. Check engine light came on went to check it and it says o2sensor.

I am not sure if there is a way to embed a video into the post, Ill leave the link if anyone can help me out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdebm2XNN14&feature=youtu.be

This is what happens while I am accelerating, it has also happened while at a complete stop only difference is that engine RPMs decrease slowly until it dies, I start it up and everything is fine.

[subject47]

Could be three things, bad news is that the three things are important, Air, Fuel, or spark.

ok how long did it take for the problem to start. this is important, while the engine is cold it runs a preprogrammed fuel map... it runs rich (good thing). once it warms up it starts to take readings of the fuel air mixture using the o2 sensors, then adjusts for the correct afm.

if it warmed up and came off the fuel map and tried to put the correct fuel in but could not it can run like this.

did you notice black smoke out the back?

the same goes for ignition timing, if the timing is off i.e. bad crank sensor the truck can run like ***, I get the same thing on my 89 bmw if the crank position sensor gets wet. runs just like that backfires dies and takes for ever to restart.

the air intake can also be premmaped untill the engine warms.

the two differrent modes are called closed/open loop, i forget which is which atm.

since you have cleaned the MAF and i assume have no air blockage since it was running, I think we can out the Air problem to the side for now.

I would start with the spark side first, checking over the whole system overview style, looking for bad conections, lingering water then do the same with fuel.

drive the truck till warm see if it happens again.

If it does, check the entire ignition system, pull off each coil one at a time look for water pull each plug look for cracked ceramic on the plugs, look at each plug they should be dry, kinda brown/metal color with minimal soot, carbon build up. if you find one that is not you may have found a symptom of your problem. soot is caused by too much fuel not burning correctly.

I really want to say its a problem with timing on the ignition side. I would say the crank sensor appears to be working.

How deep was the water inside the truck? the ecu is only inches above the tranny tunnel

[Pepino]

Could be three things, bad news is that the three things are important, Air, Fuel, or spark.

ok how long did it take for the problem to start. this is important, while the engine is cold it runs a preprogrammed fuel map... it runs rich (good thing). once it warms up it starts to take readings of the fuel air mixture using the o2 sensors, then adjusts for the correct afm.

if it warmed up and came off the fuel map and tried to put the correct fuel in but could not it can run like this.

did you notice black smoke out the back?

the same goes for ignition timing, if the timing is off i.e. bad crank sensor the truck can run like ***, I get the same thing on my 89 bmw if the crank position sensor gets wet. runs just like that backfires dies and takes for ever to restart.

the air intake can also be premmaped untill the engine warms.

the two differrent modes are called closed/open loop, i forget which is which atm.

since you have cleaned the MAF and i assume have no air blockage since it was running, I think we can out the Air problem to the side for now.

I would start with the spark side first, checking over the whole system overview style, looking for bad conections, lingering water then do the same with fuel.

drive the truck till warm see if it happens again.

If it does, check the entire ignition system, pull off each coil one at a time look for water pull each plug look for cracked ceramic on the plugs, look at each plug they should be dry, kinda brown/metal color with minimal soot, carbon build up. if you find one that is not you may have found a symptom of your problem. soot is caused by too much fuel not burning correctly.

I really want to say its a problem with timing on the ignition side. I would say the crank sensor appears to be working.

How deep was the water inside the truck? the ecu is only inches above the tranny tunnel

No black smoke, problem happens randomly but never when engine is cold, I might have driven for 30 minutes when it starts, sometimes it takes more than an hour drive, if it dies I turn the ignition on and starts inmediatly like nothing is wrong.

Ignition seems to be fine, did a whole tune up and changed sparkplugs and they were fine.
No blockage in the intake, maf cleaned, I am even running right now without the cone filter. While I get a new better one, problem seemed to stop everytime I took the air filter out, but after a week of driving like that problem came back. So I thought it had something to do with intake and air.

I am still trying to figure out whats going on, doesnt seem to be a big deal If I dont push the engine to far. I am still trying different things to see what fixes the problem.

Thanks for all the input, I will let you know when the problem gets fixed, if it ever gets fixed.

[subject47]

hmm I was pretty drunk that night, I dont even remember typing that. lol