ECM Modification By FeatherFoots Friend

[FeatherFoot]

I hope I didn't put a knot in anyone's drawers with my tennis `shoe comment'. I know that Tone is out of town for a couple of days and I wuz sorta fillin in for him.

I don't know why, but, a friend of mine has the code for all of the GM computers and the computer in the VX looks just like the GM ones.

Any of y'all want me to persue this any further??

If the safety margins aren't great enough to allow some significant improvement he may not think it worthwhile. I know that he pulled another 30 HP out of Deans '94 350cid with a little more timming and more fuel.

will probably need 25 to 35 units prepaid to make it happen. Will probably cost in the $350.00 range. +/- 25%.

post it. I'll read it.

FF

[AlaskaVX]

If there actually is a significant improvement I am down, but I don't believe we can get that many pre-orders. If you could you should have it programed for the S/Ced engines, we could probobally pull 10 pre-orders for that if it showed a 30hp increase. If we are willing to pay $3,000 for a +75hp SC, why not another $350 for + another 30hp?

[Raque Thomas]

$350 for 30hp is cheap - I'm in - IF - it's really there. There are precious few things you can do for an additional 30 hp - hell the S/C is $2600 (+ INSTALLATION) for 50 hp - $350 for 30hp is a bargain!! I guess you'll have to convince me (and many others here) that it's true, and then you'll have no problem getting your pre-orders - hell, you'll probably be inundated!! Guess we've all been somewhat jaded by the promises of xtra hp with cheap rip-off "gadgets" to the point that we are sceptical of these "easy hp" claims. Get Tone to back it and you'll sell all you can make!!!

[Cyrk]

John I am in! With the SC we can use the additional programming...

Might they be able to remove the limit on the top speed?

-Dave

[MZ-N10]

Is this 30+ HP at the wheel? If it is im in, and if it isn't....well im still, and if theres not top speed restriction....dang it just gets better doesn't it?
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[WormGod]

I'm down for whatever you can find out FF. 30+ hp today is just another step closer to 650 hp tomorrow. :p

[FeatherFoot]

It's a go!!

My buddy sez he will but can't start until after the end of the year.

FF

[FeatherFoot]

He also sez it will work on all of the 3.2L and 3.5L v6 engines if GM/Isuzu havent done something wierd.

FF

[Dallas4u]

I'm wondering how much hp/torque improvement SC'd VX's will see... I'm interested!

[AlaskaVX]

Originally posted by Dallas4u
I'm wondering how much hp/torque improvement SC'd VX's will see... I'm interested!
very, very interested

[AREA 51]

What will the mod require? Send in the whole engine control module? Will a core be needed or will the module be sold outright?

1 version for normally aspirated and another for S/C'ed?

[Cyrk]

I'm game for a SC version...

[FeatherFoot]

Originally posted by AREA 51
What will the mod require?
1 version for normally aspirated and another for S/C'ed?

He does a couple of methods currently.

One is to send in the module and get a single program loaded into it. With `next day' service you have your ECM back in hand in 2 days.

The other is a programmer with multiple programs. A current version has 1. your stock program - 2. A fuel economy program - 3. A towing program and lastly (4) a performance program.

You have the ability to change programs as/when your requirements change.

Dean went through the chip replacement thing with him and we swapped chips a couple of times because Dean didn't want a generic performance chip. He is very happy now.

FF

[Moncha]

This sounds very promising, especially the ability to choose between 4 different programs.. Would that be by switch? I know I'm jumping the guns but, can you give any more specific info?

[FeatherFoot]

The multi-programable will be able to deal with the torque management, tire size , shift points etc.

ALL OF THIS is based on his being able to work with whut GM has done. but as a minimum we should be able to tweak the ECM nicely.

FF

[Baxman]

$350 for +30 HP is a bargain! Keep in mind that if it sounds too good to be true it probably is. We were promised +49HP with the supercharger. I didn't dyno my pre-S/C'd VX, but after the installation it dyno'd 187 rear wheel HP, much to my disappointment.

Talk is cheap. Show me the dyno results, and I'll show you the $350.

Rick

[BigMeatVX]

count me in if you can change the rev limiter....(not just the top speed limiter)

Also, I am in the process of installing a ECU computer out of a manual tranny trooper 3.5.....will it work with my new computer???


P.S. Featherfoot, Has the supercharger ever been installed on a manual trannied Trooper or Rodeo? Any computer related issuses?

Thanks


Allan
99 VX on 36"s

[Joe_Black]

I'm interested if the 4-mode switchable is possible and there's good rear-wheel dyno data to support it. I've seen that mod for other domestic trucks, so it's do-able with a GM ECM.

I'm still on the fence about an S/C.

[WyrreJ]

I'd like to see an N-way programmer too, and I'd like to see at least one program specifically tuned for an engine with the SC.

[Green Dragon]

The question I have is will both the OEM fuel pressure regulator & Injectors handle the increased fuel flow required, especially on a supercharged engine.

Dragon Bob;eekg;

[Zu4two]

Bob poses a good question; will the stock fuel system components be up to the increased performance?

My question is will the automatic transmission be able to handle the extra HP and torque? Just how far can we push the poor slushbox before it breaks?

And then there's the warranty issue. I know there are owners on the board that don't want to install an aftermarket air filter on their VX for fear of it messing up their warranty. What do you think the dealer is going to say about reprogramming the engine computer?

All that said and done, put my name down on the "interested" list.

[Dallas4u]

Originally posted by Zu4two
And then there's the warranty issue. I know there are owners on the board that don't want to install an aftermarket air filter on their VX for fear of it messing up their warranty. What do you think the dealer is going to say about reprogramming the engine computer?

Well, those people aren't going to put the air filter on, so they probably wouldn't think about doing this either. I'd say, if you are still in warranty, don't even think about it.

[vx69]

I have an SC and I am deffinatly want in as long as we know it works. My VX is a daily driver, so I can not have it down for to long. But This sounds Great!

[Hotsauce]

Featherfoot:

I would want an explination of yoour earlier claims that the supercharger was covered under factory warranty before I would believe your claims, or consider sending even more money your direction.

Many of us are still quite upset over this.

John C.

[FeatherFoot]

Originally posted by Hotsauce
Featherfoot:

I would want an explination of yoour earlier claims that the supercharger was covered under factory warranty. Many of us are still quite upset over this.

John C.
I'm a little perplexed about that myself. I was in the meeting between Alpine and Isuzu where this was discussed favorably. I was told to post the possibility in this forum and on the internet. I said I would when it became a fact and was told to post it immediatly. I did then Isuzu recanted their position and I started rasing hell about getting some sort of warranty. That's the reason there was the purchasable warranty offered.

I berated that so much that I was terminated on the 3rd of January this year and haven't been gainfully employed since.

Now I'm being blamed for you not having a warranty.

Thanks.

FF

[Hotsauce]

I am blaming the messenger for the message, yes.

You did post that you had a letter from Isuzu that the SC would not affect factory warranty, even for self installation. This was the key point that pushed many of us over the edge to make a purchase.

Purchasable warranty was never offered. Some warranty was offered to later purchasers, but I was told that because of the date of my installation that it could not apply to me.

Who is responsable for the statements you posted? Are you?, Or are they legally responsable because you were acting as their agent?

If what you say is true, it looks like you tried to go to bat for us, but the result still is that we do not have what we believed we were purchasing, a factory approved product.

Strange that the posts relating to warranty of the SC have been deleted. Several members have those posts saved to disk though.

John C.

[johnnyapollo]

Hey FeatherFoot,

I figured it was something like that, from what you've said in previous posts. I think you've done nothing but look out for us VX folks and I'm glad you gave us an explanation. I for one applaud your efforts and appreciate your attempts at promoting mods that actually improve the performance of the Isuzu 3.5L motor.

Now if I can only just get off my ***** and actually install the SC I've owned since last December.

-- Best, John

[Moncha]

ALL members of this forum have the express right to recant or modify their own and no one else's postings. I'm glad for those that did keep your own back-up of the original SC thread as I do not and am not resposible to keep back-ups of specific nature. I do however, make regular, incremental back-ups of the entire site and if something changes, so does the back-up. I recommend to never use a posting that is made here or any forum as gospel. It's way too easy for the powers to be to change their minds. Get it in true writing, straight from the horses mouth. In some cases, that doesn't help either.
To keep this new subject on track let's keep the postings to the topic at hand, that's why I separated it in the first place. Please, make a separate thread to continue the discussion of the SC issue but, remember to keep it civil and if it can't be done, then take it off line. Thanks

[FeatherFoot]

Some of the posts were directed and some were made by others.

I still have legalities pending and can say no more.


Do a search for posts by Alpine supercharger guy and see what turns up.

I've spent a lot of money on products because of false claims and vowed I would not do that.


FF

[Cyrk]

So FF what's the next step to trying to get a chip made?

Would love to get some more out of the VX if it is possible.

-Dave

[sveltax]

I would be interested in the 4 setting ECM reprogramming option.

[Daver]

I'm interested. For instance, I like the shift behavior of normal mode, but the added timing of Power mode. More with less downshifting would be nice.

Now I think one thing needs to be clarified, and no-one has mentioned it yet. That 30hp claim was on a 350cid GM...a 5.7l pushrod engine. Much bigger than ours, but lower tech. I highly doubt gains of 30hp will be seen on our little 3.5l engine. Maybe closer to 20 if I were to speculate. $350 is still a bargain for that.

I had a custom 4way chip in my Typhoon. Pretty cool to have options, but after a while you will most likely settle on just one. :) It's great having seat wime with all of them though, like we do with Power mode.

-Daver

[FeatherFoot]

Originally posted by Daver
I highly doubt gains of 30hp will be seen on our little 3.5l engine.
-Daver

Actually the 5.7L engine got closer to 60 HP.

The 30 HP quoted was the estimate from the manufacturer for the 3.5L V6.

FF

[Charon_Sin]

I would be interested in a 2nd chip programmed for performance. I don’t know what the cost would be for that. Either that or a 2 setting ECM reprogramming option, one that goes from stock to performance. I am still under warranty and with the way Isuzu is being I don’t want to take any chances. I am honestly hesitant about changing my own oil. I do change it because I like knowing the job is done properly and with quality products but if I ever have problems I still wonder if they will try to deny me.

[Cyrk]

So John what is the next step to getting this chip into reality?

[FeatherFoot]

Originally posted by Cyrk
So John what is the next step to getting this chip into reality?

Just be patient. They said it would be after the first of the year before they could fit it in.

FF

[Cyrk]

Cool, Thanks for the heads up.

[Charon_Sin]

Originally posted by Baxman
$350 for +30 HP is a bargain! Keep in mind that if it sounds too good to be true it probably is. We were promised +49HP with the supercharger. I didn't dyno my pre-S/C'd VX, but after the installation it dyno'd 187 rear wheel HP, much to my disappointment.

Talk is cheap. Show me the dyno results, and I'll show you the $350.

Rick

If I recall the rear wheel HP of a Stock VX is about 166 at the top of it power band. (About 3500 RPM)

[FeatherFoot]

It's possible that I have the original dyno files on my Computer at my office. I'll see if I can dig them up.

Talked with the chip guy last week. He's helping John jr re-build his motor and said that the chip/programmer will have the ability to program/unprogram/re-program as we discussed earlier.

He has 4 or 5 different autos to program and restated that baring any thing funky in the ECU he hopes to have the "devvice" ready for sale by February.

FF

[MZ-N10]

ive been waiting to read something like this since u last said something....:p
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[ScottinMA]

John,

Do you need a head count to "encourage" production? I'm in.


Scott

[Green Dragon]

Originally posted by Baxman
$350 for +30 HP is a bargain! Keep in mind that if it sounds too good to be true it probably is. We were promised +49HP with the supercharger. I didn't dyno my pre-S/C'd VX, but after the installation it dyno'd 187 rear wheel HP, much to my disappointment.

Talk is cheap. Show me the dyno results, and I'll show you the $350.

Rick
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



If I recall the rear wheel HP of a Stock VX is about 166 at the top of it power band. (About 3500 RPM)

Reply:
SC DYNO RESULTS AT TOP OF POWER BAND ( About 3500): Indicated 237.4 HP. When Xmission shifts HP drops off to about 187. which results in about a 20 HP increase at that & higher RPMs


My Vx was the first one to have the supercharger installed. Aside from installation of 5 lb pulley. HP & torque figures shold be very close.

DYNO RESULTS

Before SC install- HP-165.3-RPM 5025- MPH 103
After SC install- HP-212.8-RPM 5025- MPH 103

TORQUE
Before SC install- 179.8- RPM 4106-MPH 85
After SC install- 235.6- RPM 4106-MPH 85

Dragon Bob

[FeatherFoot]

I checked my files and here is what I have:

Anita's Baseline and after exhaust installation

Boiled down from all of the data.

Dragon Bob's data - both raw and boiled down The raw file, when converted to excel format is about 3000 rows long and 12 columns wide. This data is baseline, after S/C, then after exhaust with the S/C.

This may be why I got run off from there. At the lower RPM's the S/C added 40 HP and the exhaust added 85 more.

The files are mixed Excel and Word Pad. I'm not going to paste them here. If someone wants to do that I'll send them to you.

FF

P.S. Bob's numbers are correct as I remember.

FF

[Raque Thomas]

Originally posted by FeatherFoot
At the lower RPM's the S/C added 40 HP and the exhaust added 85 more.
FF

WHAT??? Where do I sign up for THAT exhaust?!? Is that 5hp more?

[FeatherFoot]

actually it is more as you increase in rpm for a while, at 3000 RPM the exhaust added 92 HP to the S/C'd engine.

That's why I want someone else to post the charts etc.

FF

[ScottinMA]

92 hp for the Powervault and ony 40 for the SC? Damn I should have put two PVs on my VX...hell maybe three if I can figure where to hang it :)

Scott

[FeatherFoot]

Originally posted by ScottinMA
92 hp for the Powervault and ony 40 for the SC?

Scott

I will be the first to add that the PV only ALOWED the S/C to make that much more power. Mufflers only absorb power.

FF

[ScottinMA]

John,

I know...it just was funny. I had this image of the back of my car with three exhaust pipes connected to PVs..such an imagination.

[hchen]

errr, when he said 92 hp WITH the exhaust...that means ontop of the supercharger. because an exhaust, custom cat or whatever on a stock ride will only get you at most 10-15 hp, probably even less. WITH a supercharger or turbo, it'll get you much much more and dramatic increase in power. So im guessin with the supercharger on stock exhaust it put out 40+ extra hp, and with the exhaust and intake you'll probably get another 40 more. at best...

[Raque Thomas]

OK, I'm going for 4 PV's (I'll figure a way to stuff 'em under the rear + a SC). I figure I'll get 368hp for the 4 PV's + a measley 40hp for the S/C -I'll be running 408hp - catch me if you can Fast & Furious crowd!! Featherfoot & I are bettin' titles - anybody in?? You're with me - right Featherfoot??

[hchen]

the only way i'd put money down for a SC and those chips and whatever mods there is to boost up the HP on teh VX is if it gets the rear wheel hp to at least 280. then that will be quick.

if there's nothing that can do that, then im gonna work mostly on my '92 Si and get it running 11's.

i dont like the feeling of gettin ripped by other SUVs or rides when i race 'em, which is starting to happen more and more with newer cars boasting 200+ hp easy. comparing just the SUVs...what we got under the hood isnt much anymore. 3.5L...they could have pulled out a lot more from that, at least 280 ...but nooooo stick it at 215 to the crank...

i love my VX tho, it's still pretty quick depending on weather and temperature and if i do rapid pumps of the gas pedal when it's redlining LOLOLOL WOOT

[Dallas4u]

The "measly" 40hp (probably more per dyno) is coming from a 4lb pulley, which is small when looking at other setups on other vehicles. This was to keep in with the warranty. If you want more hp, get a bigger pulley.

Yeah, Isuzu could have put more than 215hp in there (more like 165 rear wheel hp), but so could anyone in anything. I knew when I test drove the VX that it wasn't a rocket by any means, but I bought it, and so did you. Why? The nature of the beast!

[hchen]

tru tru, what you said is correct. buuuuuut i didnt buy it =P my parents went out searchin for a ride for me, even tho i just said dont waste money buying a new one and get me a used ride...but of course they're against me modifying because supposedly it's dangerous and you get pulled over alot...whcih is true puahaha. so yea...they came ome in the spring of '99 with this weird lookin ride which i loved right away...except for the non-manual aspect. what son wouldnt be grateful for his parents droppin 32g's on a brand new ride for him as his first whip? yah...but now my rents are overseas most the time and im off at college by myself, i've been slowly modding it...to soem extent 'cause its' only capable of so much.

that's why i stick with doing major work to a "hoopty-ricer" civic that given another year, it will be bangin out 11's....12's with decent driving...while retaining a stock look so when fools pull up next to me and laugh i can let 'em have a couple second headstart before rippin by 'em. then i plan on sellin it to some dumbass kid for more than it's worth after slapping a bunch of stickers on it and watch him **** it up and crash into a wall 'cause he aint like janet jackson, he got no control. puahahaha

ok back to studying peace no more posting for a while

[FeatherFoot]

Originally posted by Dallas4u
If you want more hp, get a bigger pulley.



NAY! NAY! SAJIB! If you want more out you got to go smaller with the pulley to turn the shaft faster.

FF

[MZ-N10]

i think the major problem with the vx isnt the horsepower.....it was probably the weight....i mean a 4000lbs car isnt light no matter how u look at it...ppl complain about how heavy the VR-4s r but they have the power to back it up....the tod system probably doesnt help putting power to the floor either, now if only someone had the money to mod a skyline 4wd unit into the vx...tat would be a beast
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[Dallas4u]

Originally posted by FeatherFoot
NAY! NAY! SAJIB! If you want more out you got to go smaller with the pulley to turn the shaft faster.

FF

Errr, yeah. Sorry, had it backwards for a second. That's what I meant!!!

[SGT.BATGUANO]

Smaller SC pulley or bigger crankshaft pulley, right?

[AlaskaVX]

Any updates yet?

[Cyrk]

Bump... any word FeatherFoot?

[AlaskaVX]

Saw you were online figured I would bring it up to the top

[FeatherFoot]

I'm Glad you did. I haven't talked to my friend recently so I'll give him a call and reply in a day or so.

FF

[AlaskaVX]

One more time :)

[FeatherFoot]

He said the 6 cyl programmer is third in line. He has a Corvette and something else then the V6.

He's bigger than I am so I ain't gonna lean on him too hard.

FF

[AlaskaVX]

Is it possible that he could have it done before May 30th? I'm trying to compete in a "King of the Street" competition and the only requirement I don't meet is running a 14.999, I'm hoping that with the ECM mod and 6, possible 7psi I might just be able to pull it.
High hopes,
Alan

[Baxman]

John, will you and your buddy be doing a baseline and post-mod dyno? I know dyno time isn't cheap, but it will go a long way in avoiding any misunderstandings or "inadvertant overstatements".

Two good questions above are still unanswered: In the multi-mode ECU, how would the driver select the desired mode?

Will the VXs slushbox tolerate more torque than the S/C already provides? I think its rated for 250 lb/ft.

Thanks

[SGT.BATGUANO]

To answer 1 of your q's, a multi-detent/position thumbwheel is likely to be used.

[FeatherFoot]

He takes a stock vehicle and dynos it

Then a computer is used to start tweekin the fuel and timming matrices while on the dyno. The power and torque are maximized for all throttle positions between idle and WOT in 10% increments, and RPMs from idle to WOT in 200RPM increments.

example: 600 rpm idle and WOT of 6000rpm is 5400 divided by 200 (rpm step size) equals 27 rpm points times 10 throttle position points or a total of 270 points in the matrix.

there is a matrix for each program/setting.

the ECONOMY setting will maximize fuel mileagewhile maintaining a smooth running engine.

The TOW/HAUL setting maximizes the performance between 45 and 75 MPH but keeps it pulling strong all the way to redline.

The PERFORMANCE setting maximizes performance between 80% and 100% WOT That is where we block the throttle open and tune to each rpm.

Of cource there are the other niceties like rev limiter and speedlimiter dial in modifications torque convertor tuning, transmission shift points etc. that you have to input. The device plugs into the OBDII socket and downloads your stock program then you upload one of the programs to the ECU.

That way you are always able to re-load your stock program before having the VX serviced. (prying eyes will never know)

He then makes a dyno run in each program to compare to the original.

FF

[WyrreJ]

So who has a super-charger, lives nearby and is willing to be the guinea pig? What about needing a stronger transmission?

[chumone]

Keepin' this thread alive.

Any updates on when your friend's going to be able to look at the VX, Featherfoot?

[FeatherFoot]

talked this week.

they are submitting the Corvette v8 plus others to CARB this week or next - after approval they move on to the V6s. I think the 3.5 is #2 in the que.

FF

[Cyrk]

Sweet! hope this pans out!!!

-Dave

[AlaskaVX]

Ohhhh, I'm so anxious! Thanks for the update Featherfoot!

[MachineVX]

Any progress on this?

[xdfarrx]

I read that revotechnik, sold through greedspeed, greedspeed.com is universal?? I didn't think this was a 'universal' application