Major Engine Problem

[VX_PA]

I currently own a 1999 Isuzu VehiCross with only 62,000 miles on it. On November 1, 2003 the main bearings in the engine failed due to a defect in the bearings. I had the SUV towed to my local Isuzu dealer to find out what was wrong. They contacted me on Monday Nov. 3rd saying that the motor was bad and could not be repaired or rebuilt. Then they said that it would need a new engine installed at the price of $5,500. Isuzu would not replace the motor due to the warranty expiring only 2,000 miles ago. I have tried to contact the Owner Relations Dept at Isuzu, but each time I talk to someone they put me on hold to tranfer me to a manager which ends up being a voice mail that noone returns calls from. I was wondering if there is anything else I could do to try to resolve this problem. I love the VehiCross, but I am very upset that Isuzu won't stand behind a quality issue that was totally out of my hands. I planned on keeping the VehiCross for a long time and now I'm afraid to hold on to it because the new engine will only be warranteed for 24 months. I don't know if anyone else has ever had a problem with Isuzu and I wish I could say that I haven't, unfortunitely I am experiencing very little cooperation from them. My local dealership has provided me with a loaner car at no extra expense and is willing to discount the engine and the labor since Isuzu won't help. I don't have a bad thing to say about the dealer as they have been great every time I've had service in the past. They are actually embarrassed that Isuzu won't stand behind their product. Please pass this on to other Isuzu owners in order to warn them of this experience.

[carlymac]

Damn VX_PA!,
I HATE that your first post on this board was that your engine had "blown". I too have a 99' and wonder if there were any warning signs before the bearings failed? As far as dealing with Isuzu America or the mother company I have no advise. All of my issues to date, have been addressed by my dealer. Yea...once or twice I had to get pi$$y but all and all I'm satisfied with the dealer. I'm sure someone on the board will give you words of advise. Some of the western brothers and sisters work with Isuzu America pretty well. Heck, I even think one of them work for Isuzu itself.

Come On somebody help this fellow VXer!

Keep us posted on your progerss and if you recall any symptoms that lead to the engine failure PLEASE post them so the rest of us can "be on the look-out" Best of luck with your problem...carlymac

[hchen]

VX_PA....

engine dying is a good thing. i wish mine would die soon so i can do a swap.

well actually i take it back...financially it's bad...

ISUZU customer service is the worst of the worst, iv'e always had problems with them. they only way is to go down there and talk with them face to face. good luck

[AlaskaVX]

When I had warranty issues they had me call 1-800 255 6727, and I ended up getting my rims replaced at 52,000 miles! Definately worth a try!

[VX_PA]

It seems that Isuzu had trouble deciding how long to offer a powertrain warranty on their products:

From '96 to '99 it was 6/60000

2000 to 2002 10/100000

2003 and on 7/75000

Unfortunitely I own a '99. I work for a manufacturer of Highway Equipment and if a customer was just out of warranty and thier motor failed we would replace it no questions asked, that is what good customer service is all about.

As for the warning signs, there weren't any at all. Oh wait, one comes to mind about 1 week prior to the motor FUBARing the engine oil light flickered. I checked the oil and it was fine so I figured it was just a glitch. Too bad it wasn't!

[Rickster]

Here is the Warranty link

http://www.isuzu.com/owners_warranty.jsp

[Cptnmorgan]

VX_PA

I FEEL YOUR PAIN!!!! My engine went out only a month ago, and 1 day before I was to trade it for my new truck!!!! Mine was also a '99 and had 61952 miles on it. I DID get a hold of someone at Isuzu HQ and he told me TUFF!!! His exact quote was "even if you were 1 week out of warranty we would not replace or help you replace your engine. Good luck" Loved my VX but Isuzu is on my black list!!!!!!!

As far as warning signs, my engine started to use an abnormal amount of oil about 3 months before it blew. I was using Mobil then switched to Royal Purple when it started burning the mobil, and changing it religiously. Alas to no avail!! I probably just prolonged the engine just long enough to get out of warranty. It happened with a snap of a finger. Driving home from work and it started makeing a VERY loud knocking sound. #1 cylinder GONE!! Had I not done anything I probably would have been under warranty and still driving it today. The only reason I was going to trade it off was because I knew "something" was wrong and wanted to offload it before the problem occured. No such luck......

I was burning about 2 quarts + every 1000 miles in the end. Could hear the engine chattering, but as soon as oil was added the chattering or knock would disappear. It was not "burning" oil as there was no black smoke coming out of the tailpipe, no leaks on the ground, and no bypassing of oil to the cooling system.......

Good luck in your endeavors, I was told it waould cost $4500 just for a short block to fix it..... I was fortunate that a wholesaler bought mine for $2000 less than what the dealership was giving me. So I ended up out $2000.

3C

[VehiX]

Was it always cylinder one with the VX's this has happend to?

If so, I may just take mine to the delaer to have it checked.

Is anyone with the Rodeo reporting this or does it only happen to this engine in the VX?

I am all freaked out again about this as I have a 99 with about 53,000 on the clock! I feel like it is just a matter of time!

Out of warrenty and still owing about $11,500 on her, this really scares me :(

How can one take preventitive maintenance on this matter???

I swear I will NEVER BUY ANOTHER ISUZU FOR AS LONG AS I LIVE!!!

It's a damn shame the VX was made by ISUZU instead of a more reputable automobile manufacturer!

[gregory46]

I have 99 Vx with 59900 mile on it.
Is this a common problem.
If this thing happened to me waht could I do?

[VehiX]

I wouldn't say it is common at all as far as I am concerned.

BUT, it has happened enough to make me worried about it!

I'd say out of all the VX'ers here on the forums it only happened to a handfull (about 3-4) of people that we are aware of.

So, the odds of it happening to you are slim. BUT, if it does happen to you it would appear that you'd be SOL!

I think we need to look deeper in to why this happens and try to prevent it before anything goes wrong.

Bad oil pump? wrong oil? loose engine parts etc.

What would cause our V6 to burn / lose oil and then all of a suddn BLAM bye bye to your engine?

We have to get to the bottom of this on our own as it is obvious ISUZU will play the stupid card and act like they have no idea and then milk the fact that you where 1 friggin mile out of warranty!!!

[hchen]

um...i dunno...i take care of mine but i only change the oil every 4-5 thousand miles...and the only time i add oil is when i change it. i havent had a problem yet. just a minor tranny leak that i need to get fixed. and i drive my VX really really hard...

[Green Dragon]

Here's a LINK describing possible 3.5 eng problems. Isuzu knows about this but contimues to deny everything.


http://forums.delphiforums.com/itog/messages?msg=996.35

Dragon Bob:confused:

The Isuzu service bulletin regarding excessive oil consumption (> 1qt per
1000 miles) is service bulletin # IB00-01-5002. As I said on the phone, if
you ever get to a point where you feel oil consumption is an issue, Isuzu
will consider up to 1qt per 1000 miles to be "within spec". If your
consumption gets worse than that, they will have the the dealership perform
monitored consumption tests (per the service bulletin above) and if the oil
consumption is then measured worse than 1 qt per 1000 miles, Isuzu is
obligated to replace the motor. Having this service bulletin number at your
disposal is valuable because it shows your dealership that you know what is
going on. Tuck it away and hope you never have to use it.

[VX_PA]

I'm sad to hear that I was too late to warn someone else of this problem. I don't think that I will get anywhere with Isuzu as they won't return my phone calls. My wife is really ticked. She has already made plans to send out press releases to as many newspapers as possible and letters to the editor to newspapers and auto magazines. Sad thing is - she'll do it. The worst part for Isuzu is that we are avid car show attendees and we'll be displaying our Vehicross with a nice big sign announcing the blown engine at 62,000 miles.

[gregory46]

Worried worried

[VX_PA]

Still trying to get a real person at Corp. Isuzu, no luck. I ordered my new engine and it should be installed this week. Keeping my fingers crossed that all goes well. I'll be glad to give back the dealership the Chevy S-10 they gave me as a loaner. It makes you realize how good we have it with the VX. The seats in the S-10 are crap, so is the handling, and even though it is the 4.3 liter V6 it feels wimpy compared to driving the VX.

The only good thing to all this is at least I'll have a brand new motor with no miles what-so-ever. I'm surprised that it only comes with a 24 month warranty, but at this point I'll take it.

Once the motor is in and I get to finally drive it again I'll update everyone on this story. Wish me luck!!

[sveltax]

Good luck Zuzu bro! (Fortunately my Axiom came with the 10yr/120M drive train warranty).

[Anita]

It may be a reach, but see if your dealer would cut you a deal. Explain to them that you giving them a favorable review on this forum can and will lead to new customers knocking on their door.

Good dealers like the one you have are few and far between. They need more Isuzu customers and it has been proven many times here that Isuzu owners will go where the recommendations take them.

BTW, to those who live in the Los Angeles area ... Sierra Monrovia Isuzu needs more business. Go bug em' an get an oil change or something...

[VX_PA]

Well it's been 17 days without my VX. The engine still hasn't arrived at the dealership and no word why.

I did finally get a case # with Isuzu but the claim was denied. This one will come out of my pocket:(

I wonder if I should have researched possible motor swaps? Would anything other than the 3.5 work?

I hope the engine gets here soon, I'm having VX withdrawal syndrome.

[WyrreJ]

There has been speculation here on the board that the new 3.5L Direct Injection Engine (http://isuzu.com/direct_injection_engine.jsp) could be made to work with a reasonable amount of effort (new electronics to run the direct-injection mechanism correctly).

[VX_PA]

That engine seems too new, a problem down the road. I don't trust the 3.5 Isuzu engine that I'm getting now. I was thinking, what would a VX do with a new Chevy crate motor. Not too big, but a V8 VX, how cool would that be.

I've asked several mechanics that question and they said it can be done, as they say anything can be done, it's just a matter of how much money I'm willing to spend and how much modifying I'm willing to do to make it work?

For now I'll just stick with the factory replacement motor. At least I get a new warranty with it.

[BuffArchitect]

Sorry to hear about your engine problem. Have they replaced the engine yet? I too have a 99 but I've only got about 36000 miles. I'm worried though. I'm counting on this thing truck lasting another 5 years. You noticed your oil light flickering about a week before the engine blew? I watch mine religiously now. What do you do if this happens though? Head straight to the dealer?

Is the engine they're replacing yours with a different design or the original. From other forums, its seems like the 3.5 L engine from the Trooper (in the 99 VX) has been problematic at the mid mileage level anyway. I hope the replacement isn't the same.

Keep us posted. Good luck.

[VX_PA]

If you suspect that something is wrong with your VX while it is still under warranty -- drive to your dealer ASAP. That's my advice, because once your over mileage or time they won't cover anything even if it's their fault.

As for the motor, Isuzu supposedly found an internal problem with some of the blocks from 1998 - 2002. Supposedly all the new motors have been changed to eliminate the problem. I don't have the details on exactly what the problem was, but as soon as I lost my engine I started searching the net for any information about this engine. There are alot more Trooper owners that have had the same problem with losing their engine with relatively low miles. I'm hoping that Isuzu did in fact change the block design because I don't want to drive another 20K to 60K miles and have to replace the motor again. I only have a 24K mile warranty on the new engine.

[azskyrider]

VX_PA,

How is the replacement engine working out? Was it a complete new engine or just the lower block? Did the cost that you stated include labor hours?

[kpaske]

I'm really starting to get worried now. When I did my last oil change, my VX had burned off quite a bit more than usual, and over the past month or two it's started to ping and lose some of its power. I've been frantically doing everything I can think of to get her back into shape (including changing all my fluids, cleaning out the air filter, changing the spark plugs, etc) but I'm running out of things to do and the performance hasn't improved much. Switching to higher octane (89) seems to have helped the pinging a bit, but I ran 87 octane for the first 70k miles without a problem, so something has definately changed.

Someone suggested that carbon buildup could be the cause, and I read in another thread that the PCV and EGR valves could get clogged and cause premature engine failure. Could this possibly be the cause? Does anyone else have any suggestions for what might prevent this type of problem?

[mrtew]

We really need to get together with the Trooper people and find out if there is anything we can do about this and what the problem really is (if there is actually a problem beyond a few isolated unrelated failures). There are a lot of people here that are worried that it could happen to them. Is there anything that can be done to prevent engine failure.

[azskyrider]

just a suggestion but it might be a good idea to document the VX maintance and symptoms. Also people that have experienced engine failure with this particular engine regardles of vehicle model (I.E. VX,TRooper) should keep in touch with one another. This way if there is reasonable doubt and proof (ISUZU bullletin, Logs) then the group can hire a lawyer and go after Isuzu as a group instead of trying to fight the Giant one by one. It also might help that Isuzu Customer service relation know that this group exists so the next VX or Trooper person might have a more courteous dealing with Corporate. I have found that information present and organized will get your further than trying to handle the person by word of mouth.

The net is large so groups such as this, planet Isuzu etc... can offer more voice than the average Joe. (Why doesn't the Joe ever get picked? :( )

ISUZU owners of the world UNITE!

[VX_PA]

Originally posted by azskyrider
VX_PA,

How is the replacement engine working out? Was it a complete new engine or just the lower block? Did the cost that you stated include labor hours?

New engine seems to be working great. Just completed the first fluid change last month and found no debris in the old oil.

It was a complete new engine and not just the long block. Cost stated was total with labor. What I'm worried about now is the tranny, since some members here are now experiencing problems with them. But can't worry too much, just drive and enjoy.;)

[SinMan]

Perhaps, this might be the reason why people are starting to sell their VX before it reaches 60K... I have a question, does this happen a lot to only 99 models or it is common problem for all 99, 00, 01 models? I saw one from ebay 01 model with defective engine got replaced at 55K... Man, this is definately not good.... I hope there's solution to this. :(

[Capri]

weren't there several owners with at least 70k on their VX with no engine problem? :confused:

[Anita]

There are many owners with over 60, 70 and 80K and even 120K on their VX's with no problems. You dont hear from them just for that reason.

[Yefim]

Just wanted to chime in - I currently have about 78K on my '99 VX. "Knock on wood" - so far I have not had any engine problems at all. I just do regular maintenance... switched to Mobil 1 when I had about 40K on it or so... used regular oil before that. I did not make any changes to the OEM setup and I use lower grade gasoline too. Maybe I am lucky... maybe it will die tomorrow ;) Just wanted to let people know that there are a few VXs outthere with higher mileage and no engine problems.

cheers

[kid1carson]

I must admit that I'm very concern, I have a 99 VX and I'm having the very same issues as some of the VX owner’s, high oil consumption and pinging and lost of power.

I just changes to 92-93 Octane and tried some street legal 102-OC two weeks ago. My VX seem to have the power back with no pinging but I'm still not convinced that all is well, with all the issues I'm having at 75k I'm not sure I want to add modifications.

It seems very clear to me that Isuzu is aware of the problem with the earlier 3.5L. Perhaps we should put together a task force with owners to address the matter legally.

[Anita]

I would pay serious attention to the possible carbon buildup of the PCV and EGR systems. My Isuzu mechanic has been for awhile now documenting problems with the ERG valve with links to excessive oil burning and piston failure. It would be a good idea to do a search on PCV, EGR and even the MAF sensor to get an idea of what other owners have experienced.

[SGT.BATGUANO]

If you're the orig. owner and never had it done before, an injector cleaning might be in order.

Have you been following the recommended maintenance schedule for part replacement?

[Triple X]

Unfortunately, looks like I might be in the same boat with the '99 VX I just bought 3 weeks ago - excessive oil consumption and pinging. It has a short warranty from the dealership. I will take it in to them on Friday and see what they have to say about it. I've seen mention on vmag from Trooper owners that the problem is faulty oil control rings and that a ring job may take care of the problem. I'm actually thinking about pushing the dealership to buy it back from me and going with another vehicle instead. I've loved the VX's from the first time I saw one in '99, but don't want to be saddled with a problematic engine. If any of you guys who are still under your warranties even suspect you have a problem, have it seen about right away. Changing the quality/weight of your oil may seem to fix the problem in the short term, but I think in the long term these engines have some serious defects.

[deermagnet]

After four years and over 71K miles, my engine is just as strong and solid as day one. I've never added a drop of oil. It may blow up tomorrow, as any engine can, but I'm now happier with my VX than I've ever been. If I develop engine problems, I'll deal with it. It may be expensive with some headaches, but life goes on. There's a lot worse things that can happen to us than replacing a bad hunk of metal.

There's millions of bad engines out there. Just be glad we don't have a GM engine. Ford and Daimler-Chrysler have lots of lawsuits also.

"A class action complaint against General Motors Corporation was filed by the law firm Green & Jigarjian LLP and the Oklahoma based firms of Federman & Sherwood and Walker & Walker. The lawsuit, brought on behalf of purchasers of 1999 through 2003 model GM vehicles with a 3.1, 3.4, 4.8, 5.3, 5.7 (LS1), 6.0, or 8.1 liter engine that exhibits a loud noise due to Piston Slap, alleges that GM actively concealed the engine defect while continuing to advertise, market, and warrant that GM engines are free from defects. Some of the models that may have a Piston Slap defect are the Chevrolet Camaro, Corvette, Silverado, Tahoe and Surburban; GM Denali and Yukon; Cadillac Escalade and Pontiac TransAm."

Don't worry, be happy! http://www.wtv-zone.com/markg/mags/mags2/drive.gif

Mark Griffin

[Tone]

Having disassembled coaches failed motor, I can find no flaw in the crank or block that would cause the front 2 rod bearings to fail as they did. In fact, the #1 has a large oiling hole for the bearing. Aluminum engines are going to use oil period and 1 qt every 1-2K miles is not a big deal. I've used sythetics since delivery of both my VXes and never had a problem but I change oil religiously every 2500-3K miles. I've used Amsoil, Mobil 1, Syntec and even conventional 20-50w.

[t2p]

Tone:

(with all due respect):
.
Not in this day and age.
.
Isuszu will be out of business in short time if they are selling Axioms (or whatever) that use 1-2 quarts of oil between changes.
.
Honda has produced aluminum engines for years - and none use oil. A Honda engine that uses oil at that rate (1-2 qts between changes) would be labeled a defect - and would be corrected and/or replaced. My guess is ditto for Toyota.
.
(As a side note, Honda has increased their oil change intervals to 5000-7500 miles).
.
Even GM and Ford engines do not use oil at that rate. The last engine that I can remember that used oil at that rate was the terribly flawed GM Vega (aluminum) engine in the mid 70's.
.
If my VX uses oil at that rate - and it can not be corrected - it will go up for sale.
.
(I hope not - as I plan to order a trailer hitch from you - and have some fun with this vehicle).
.
t2p

[Triple X]

My '99 w/ 72.000 miles has burned 1.7 quarts of oil during the past 600 miles of driving - mostly interstate, no off-road, no hard-pushing. I don't care what Isuzu says, that's excessive consumption. I had switched on the last oil change to a 10w-30 full synthetic. Today I went with a regular 15w-40. I'm thinking I need a heavier grade oil that won't blow past the rings as easily. At any rate, it's going back to the dealership on Friday to be looked at. If it can't be fixed, they'll have to buy it back from me (have had it less than three weeks). Love the vehicle - don't want to have to drive with one hand on the wheel and the other hand holding a quart of oil.

[t2p]

OUCH !

Have you checked the EGR and/or PCV ?

[Triple X]

The EGR connection is tight. If the EGR itself is fouled or faulty hopefully they will find that out when they look at it on Friday. The PCV is brand new.

[WyrreJ]

Originally posted by t2p

(As a side note, Honda has increased their oil change intervals to 5000-7500 miles).

The change interval in the VX manual is also 7500 miles - only 3K under extreme conditions.

[Triple X]

If Isuzu's own manual says the change interval is 7,500 miles, then how in the h*ll can they turn around and say 1 quart per 1,000 miles is normal consumption!

I would be interested to know if anyone has a copy or has seen a copy of the IB00-01-5002 service bulletin pertaining to excessive oil consumption.

I really don't have much of a life and have a good amount of free time. I'm about ready to go Erin Brokovich on Isuzu's a** and start research for a class action law suit. Just from what I've read on vehicross.info and vmag it seems Isuzu has been actively attempting to muddy the waters as to their defective product and their culpability in refusing to issue a recall.

VX owners who have had problems with the 3.5 L V-6's and Trooper owners need to get together and see just how many engines have this problem.

Again, I'm appreciative of all the members who post on this site. Being able to read through these forums has provided me with much of the information I need to resolve my own engine problems proactively rather then waiting for the rods to hit the pavement.

[thesilverbullet]

Summer 05' I blew cylinder #1 and and deformed my cam shaft. It took three months for my mechanic to take out the tranny drop the engine, rip it apart, find a cam shaft in the NO had to do some modifications. When all said and done my mechanic only profited 250 on three months work. What a good guy!!!

A year later at 80K I have recently replaced CV Boots, curretly having troubles with my TOD not sure if I just need to do some regular maintence, but just maitenaced 2 months ago. Or may i need the inteceptor, or possibly my rear may be goin out.

When shifting from 2nd to 3rd (AT) TOD goes nuts and makes a winnig sound that seems to be coming from the rear end??

Clueless and short on cash, please help!!!! :confused: 99' Silver VX Ironman

[Dare2Dream]

Have you ever changed the TOD fluid? If not, you should change it and also the differential fluids. Checking the fluid would be one of the firsdt things I would do.

[VehiX]

Summer 05' I blew cylinder #1 and and deformed my cam shaft. It took three months for my mechanic to take out the tranny drop the engine, rip it apart, find a cam shaft in the NO had to do some modifications. When all said and done my mechanic only profited 250 on three months work. What a good guy!!!

A year later at 80K I have recently replaced CV Boots, curretly having troubles with my TOD not sure if I just need to do some regular maintence, but just maitenaced 2 months ago. Or may i need the inteceptor, or possibly my rear may be goin out.

When shifting from 2nd to 3rd (AT) TOD goes nuts and makes a winnig sound that seems to be coming from the rear end??

Clueless and short on cash, please help!!!! :confused: 99' Silver VX Ironman


What condition are your tires in and are they all the same with even wear? Have you installed anything under the passenger side seat? Also, how's your brakes? Any calipers stickeing or anything like that?

[blacksambo]

We have two '99's with over 80k each. Knock on wood, no problems yet. However, we were running Mobil 1 0w-30 and were losing 1 quart per thousand on one and a little less on the other. Then we recently switched to Mobil 1 truck and suv formula 5w-30. What a difference. Much quieter and less oil use also better mileage. Just did round trip Saratoga to Montreal with the AC blowing and going 70 mph plus and logged a solid 20mpg. You can take it from there.