Prospective VX owner looking for a little advice & direction

[Roody650i]

Happy holidays everyone!

Been a huge fan of the VehiCROSS since I first saw it at a ripe old age of 8. By chance a tiny used car dealer 5 miles from me got one in last week. It's a 1999 in Victory White, 100k miles, red/black interior, clean title, clean Carfax. Looks to be in great shape for the most part. The u-joints are rusted pretty decently but the body seems to be in good condition, and the interior looks like it wasn't abused too badly at all. Didn't get a chance to look at the engine as it was pouring (rain = good luck, right?), but I'd say overall it's a solid 7 or 8 out of 10.

I've been reading as much as I can on the forum here but there's only so much digging into the archive my brain can withstand (spent the last few months attempting to figure out all the problems my Avalanche has), so figured I'd join and post here.

Have a few questions before I scoop this VX up:

- The dealer has absolutely no idea what the thing is and is asking $5200. I could probably grab it for $4500. Craigslist and Autotrader searches haven't been helpful; prices look like they're all over the place. This sound like a fair price?

- Are there any telltale things to look for to identify possible significant problems? I've read about the engine failures but those sound like they come out of absolutely nowhere. Any big-time red flags?


Thanks in advance, everyone! Here's a picture of the VX in question (and hopefully in my future)

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n169/roody25/E73AD999-26A7-4A10-BE65-A700E25AC99F_zps7xxov781.jpg

[TheGanzman]

My advice - Buy THE best, THE most rust-free example you can find Stateside, no matter WHERE it is! Shipping a vehicle is cheap - your best bet is to find an original Southwest VX, that has been here its whole life. Also, the least mods, the better, IMHO - once they've been lifted, the "service life" of many of the driveline parts is usually significantly compromised...

Some (probably unappreciated by MOST) advice from an old guy, who has bought over 30 vehicles in the last 41 years - worth exactly what you paid for it!:bwgy:

[Roody650i]

My advice - Buy THE best, THE most rust-free example you can find Stateside, no matter WHERE it is! Shipping a vehicle is cheap - your best bet is to find an original Southwest VX, that has been here its whole life. Also, the least mods, the better, IMHO - once they've been lifted, the "service life" of many of the driveline parts is usually significantly compromised...

Some (probably unappreciated by MOST) advice from an old guy, who has bought over 30 vehicles in the last 41 years - worth exactly what you paid for it!:bwgy:


Thanks for the advice! Honestly I didn't have enough time & patience to get a great look at the thing in the downpour, but from my brief glance it seemed to be in good shape rust-wise. U-joints were definitely in need of a little loving but those shouldn't be too expensive to replace. Little-to-no body rust, minimum rust on the under-carriage from what I could see. Really only got to look quickly but my first thought was about how much worse the underside of my 6-year-newer Avalanche is...

Any way to hunt down VX's for sale other than Autotrader, Cars.com, and Craigslist? Really tough to buy something if I haven't seen it in person...this '99 by me is bone-stock, and I don't mind putting in some time to get rid of surface rust and re-spraying the frame if it means getting a good deal.

Thanks again!

[tom4bren]

It looks like a good deal to me. It'd be nice though to get the service records. There's significant maintenance due at 90K. If that wasn't done then you're probably looking at several hundred dollars worth of parts for timing belt, tensioner, water pump, serp, etc. That price will climb quickly if you can't do it yourself.

Take that puppy for a test drive. On road, listen for rattles & vibrations. Off road, watch the TOD lights to make sure you're getting power to the front wheels.

Check the CV boots. If they're cracked or split, then the CV's will probably need to be replaced ASAP.

If you do get it (I hope you do), make sure to add this site to your favorites. The folks here can help save mucho dinero on troubleshooting and repairs.

[bartmanS4]

If you can pick it up for around $4500 that really sounds like a deal. Definitely take it on a long test ride including highway, bumps, and tight turns. Check the oil before and after although that probably won't tell you anything. Check the trans for slippage, hopefully you can run it from a cold startup. Even if it has a few problems you've got some room to put a little money into it. I wouldn't be too concerned about the u-joints. My concerns would be transmission, TOD, rust, oil consumption, and CV joints. Problems with those things would not cause me to decide against buying it, just give me pause as to the repair costs. I bought my VX for pretty cheap but it was very neglected and needed quite a bit of love and a little bit of money to get it where I wanted it. I don't regret it a bit.
Good Luck!
Scott

[Roody650i]

It looks like a good deal to me. It'd be nice though to get the service records. There's significant maintenance due at 90K. If that wasn't done then you're probably looking at several hundred dollars worth of parts for timing belt, tensioner, water pump, serp, etc. That price will climb quickly if you can't do it yourself.

Take that puppy for a test drive. On road, listen for rattles & vibrations. Off road, watch the TOD lights to make sure you're getting power to the front wheels.

Check the CV boots. If they're cracked or split, then the CV's will probably need to be replaced ASAP.

If you do get it (I hope you do), make sure to add this site to your favorites. The folks here can help save mucho dinero on troubleshooting and repairs.

The dealer said he has the service records - whether that's true or not we'll have to see when I go back later this week. Problem is I work in CT until 430, dealer is an hour away and he closes at 5...if he's trying to really make a sale he should stay a little late so I can come give this thing a good run-through. Any common NVH problem spots?

Doubt I'll be able to take it off-road but we have the potential to get a huge snowstorm so hopefully that will be a good indicator of the 4WD system working or not. As for a forum helping out with saving money...let's just say if it weren't for the Avalanche forum and for the forum the guys I ride ATVs with are on, I'd be ***** out of a lot more money than those 2 have already cost me!




If you can pick it up for around $4500 that really sounds like a deal. Definitely take it on a long test ride including highway, bumps, and tight turns. Check the oil before and after although that probably won't tell you anything. Check the trans for slippage, hopefully you can run it from a cold startup. Even if it has a few problems you've got some room to put a little money into it. I wouldn't be too concerned about the u-joints. My concerns would be transmission, TOD, rust, oil consumption, and CV joints. Problems with those things would not cause me to decide against buying it, just give me pause as to the repair costs. I bought my VX for pretty cheap but it was very neglected and needed quite a bit of love and a little bit of money to get it where I wanted it. I don't regret it a bit.
Good Luck!
Scott

How do you know if TOD is fully functional or not? For $4500 this thing could really be a deal, and it would be great to be able to let the Avy get some down time (put ~500 miles a week on the truck on an easy week, 130/day when it gets used daily).

Thanks!

[MSHardeman]

If the TOD system is working as it should at a stop there should be no power going to the front wheels (I know, DUH!). When you start to move there should be no power to the front wheels until about 10-15 mph. At that point you should see the first light on the front wheels light up on the TOD display. There really isn't any way to tell if there is actually power going to the front wheels though. I can never feel the shift in power during normal dry driving. The only way to make sure that the TOD works is to get the rear wheels to slip a little (maybe that snow storm you were talking about). Find a patch of ice/mud/slick road and step on the gas. If the TOD is working correctly you should see all three of the lights on the front wheels of the TOD display light up and you should feel the front end grab. You might also hear the transfer case whine a little. The power shift should only last a split second unless the rear wheels start to slip again, at which point the TOD will throw power to the front wheels again.

When I first got my VX I thought that as the rear wheels started to slip that the TOD would throw power to the front wheels and leave it there. That isn't the case. It sends power forward in short bursts. Just enough to stop the rear wheels from slipping and then it pulls the power back. I live in Colorado and I love the TOD in the winter. As others slip and slide as they take off from a light I can just stomp on it and the TOD takes care of the rest; pulsing power to the front wheels as it's needed.

To be safe, I would also shift the VX into 4 wheel low to make sure that everything works with that too. That won't tell you if the TOD system works, but it will tell you if the four wheel drive system works and that the transfer case is working.

Good luck and keep asking as many questions as you need to.

[SinJin]

Good luck !
As long as nothing major needs done, that $5200 sounds fair. See if he has records of the timing belt service. If no records, I would certainly talk him down a bit on the price.

Also, check the wheels for excessive peeling chrome. If there is any chrome peeling up at the tire/wheel bead sealing surface area then you'll likely be plagued with air leaks. Usually bead sealant works well but I've had it fail on me a couple of times so far. Maybe take a tire gauge with you to check the air pressure in each tire real quick. Obviously, a low tire will tip you off that something there isn't right.

These wheels are hard to get in good condition. Stock size aftermarket wheels are few and far between.

Things that tend to rust out first would be the license plate lights. In the rust-belt area, those light sockets and their bracket go first and they are not easy to fix properly compared to a lot of other vehicles. Next to go tends to be the front bumper, under the plastic cladding.


None of these things would stop me from buying this vehicle, especially if you talk him down to $4500!!! It's nice to know this stuff first so you can budget for the repairs later.

[Roody650i]

If the TOD system is working as it should at a stop there should be no power going to the front wheels (I know, DUH!). When you start to move there should be no power to the front wheels until about 10-15 mph. At that point you should see the first light on the front wheels light up on the TOD display. There really isn't any way to tell if there is actually power going to the front wheels though. I can never feel the shift in power during normal dry driving. The only way to make sure that the TOD works is to get the rear wheels to slip a little (maybe that snow storm you were talking about). Find a patch of ice/mud/slick road and step on the gas. If the TOD is working correctly you should see all three of the lights on the front wheels of the TOD display light up and you should feel the front end grab. You might also hear the transfer case whine a little. The power shift should only last a split second unless the rear wheels start to slip again, at which point the TOD will throw power to the front wheels again.

When I first got my VX I thought that as the rear wheels started to slip that the TOD would throw power to the front wheels and leave it there. That isn't the case. It sends power forward in short bursts. Just enough to stop the rear wheels from slipping and then it pulls the power back. I live in Colorado and I love the TOD in the winter. As others slip and slide as they take off from a light I can just stomp on it and the TOD takes care of the rest; pulsing power to the front wheels as it's needed.

To be safe, I would also shift the VX into 4 wheel low to make sure that everything works with that too. That won't tell you if the TOD system works, but it will tell you if the four wheel drive system works and that the transfer case is working.

Good luck and keep asking as many questions as you need to.

So the TOD system essentially is AWD? In addition to 2WD/4WD/4WD-Low my Avy has "Auto 4WD" which functions as an AWD system would, sending power to the front wheels when it senses the rears slipping. TOD sounds similar but it only does it if the rears continue to spin, not if they gain traction?



Good luck !
As long as nothing major needs done, that $5200 sounds fair. See if he has records of the timing belt service. If no records, I would certainly talk him down a bit on the price.

Also, check the wheels for excessive peeling chrome. If there is any chrome peeling up at the tire/wheel bead sealing surface area then you'll likely be plagued with air leaks. Usually bead sealant works well but I've had it fail on me a couple of times so far. Maybe take a tire gauge with you to check the air pressure in each tire real quick. Obviously, a low tire will tip you off that something there isn't right.

These wheels are hard to get in good condition. Stock size aftermarket wheels are few and far between.

Things that tend to rust out first would be the license plate lights. In the rust-belt area, those light sockets and their bracket go first and they are not easy to fix properly compared to a lot of other vehicles. Next to go tends to be the front bumper, under the plastic cladding.


None of these things would stop me from buying this vehicle, especially if you talk him down to $4500!!! It's nice to know this stuff first so you can budget for the repairs later.


Didn't inspect the wheels to closely (hadn't yet read about the peeling/sealing problems) but did notice a little rust drip around where the license plate would be. All too familiar with under-the-cladding rust! Some early-year Avys are getting this under the front bumper as well. Only real way to tell is to pull the bumper off, though...same goes for the VX?

Thanks again everyone!

[tom4bren]

The TOD uses electric clutches to pulse power to the front when needed. It won't lock in the front drive train continuouslly so it's OK on dry pavement. I'm not sure how the other full timers do it (probably clutches or viscous coupling). The TOD senses both wheel spin and engine torque when it decides to send power up front. So on your test drive, don't take it easy on the skinny pedal. I wouldn't worry too much about what the TOD lights mean ... just that there's activity on the display when you punch it.

BTW, the rear is posi so you'll get pretty good traction even if the front drive isn't working. I put locking hubs on mine & can't remember the last time I locked them.

BTW, if you're looking for the VX to be an economical DD to replace the Avalanche ... think again. You'll probably only get 15-17 mpg in it. I drive 100 miles a day so the VX stays at home on work days.

[MSHardeman]

Yeah, what Tom said about the TOD (Torque On Demand) system. It is considered an all wheel drive system.

One other thing to look at (and this isn't a deal breaker) is the front bumper on the VX. It is a tube that is hidden behind the front cladding and you can easily see it (if it's there) by looking into the front wheel well in front of the front tire. The bumpers are notorious for completely rotting away. Many people know that there's are gone and drive on, some probably don't know that it's missing and continue to drive. It does nothing for the performance of the VX but would provide some (VERY minimal) front end protection in a crash.

Some pics of mine before I replace it:
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/Front_Bumper_Old_05-10-12_02.JPG
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/Front_Bumper_Old_05-10-12_14.JPG
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/Front_Bumper_Old_05-10-12_15.JPG

Pic of the one that I had built:
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/Front_Bumper_New_05-10-12_03.JPG

Keep the questions coming. :thumbup:

[VX KAT]

A few years ago, several of us put together a pretty detailed "checklist", with many items being very specific to the VX. It's NOT all inclusive, but it's a good place to start, just pick and choose what you want from it. (for example, the front bumper bar rusting out is on there, which Mark just mentioned).

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showpost.php?p=261869&postcount=10

[Roody650i]

The TOD uses electric clutches to pulse power to the front when needed. It won't lock in the front drive train continuouslly so it's OK on dry pavement. I'm not sure how the other full timers do it (probably clutches or viscous coupling). The TOD senses both wheel spin and engine torque when it decides to send power up front. So on your test drive, don't take it easy on the skinny pedal. I wouldn't worry too much about what the TOD lights mean ... just that there's activity on the display when you punch it.

BTW, the rear is posi so you'll get pretty good traction even if the front drive isn't working. I put locking hubs on mine & can't remember the last time I locked them.

BTW, if you're looking for the VX to be an economical DD to replace the Avalanche ... think again. You'll probably only get 15-17 mpg in it. I drive 100 miles a day so the VX stays at home on work days.

MPG isn't a worry, it's the mileage I'm putting on the Avy that worries me. I've had more things go wrong on that truck over the last 30k miles than I thought possible (ABS sensor, ABS pump, right front wheel bearing, left front hub assembly, O2 sensor, 2 exhausts, left rear caliper, right rear brake assembly, etc...and I still have no AC and heat only if the truck is in a good mood) so it's not bad to let it sit a couple days a week. 15 MPG doesn't bother me...no fun things in life get good MPG :winkgray: Except maybe a Tesla or a 'Vette in 6th on the highway




Yeah, what Tom said about the TOD (Torque On Demand) system. It is considered an all wheel drive system.

One other thing to look at (and this isn't a deal breaker) is the front bumper on the VX. It is a tube that is hidden behind the front cladding and you can easily see it (if it's there) by looking into the front wheel well in front of the front tire. The bumpers are notorious for completely rotting away. Many people know that there's are gone and drive on, some probably don't know that it's missing and continue to drive. It does nothing for the performance of the VX but would provide some (VERY minimal) front end protection in a crash.


Replacing the bumper beam isn't a problem! I can handle that easily. Have a full machine shop at work to do whatever I need.




A few years ago, several of us put together a pretty detailed "checklist", with many items being very specific to the VX. It's NOT all inclusive, but it's a good place to start, just pick and choose what you want from it. (for example, the front bumper bar rusting out is on there, which Mark just mentioned).

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showpost.php?p=261869&postcount=10


Thanks for the link! Will read up on it tomorrow after tonight's festivities...

[evillecutter]

this goes with any vehicross: unless you have lots of money and/or love to work on cars, turn around, run, and dont look back

p.s. my metal bar is original and looks brand spankin new

[Roody650i]

this goes with any vehicross: unless you have lots of money and/or love to work on cars, turn around, run, and dont look back

p.s. my metal bar is original and looks brand spankin new

Nothing I haven't dealt with before, the Avalanche is a mess and my quad is even more work. Love to work on cars, hate to spend the money. Worth it though!

[eternal21]

this goes with any vehicross: unless you have lots of money and/or love to work on cars, turn around, run, and dont look back


I'm going to have to disagree w/that statement. I've owned my VX for over 50k miles and 3.5 yrs. In that time, there have only been 2 sources of consternation:
a) the overheating - finally determined it was a pulley, and it has been replaced, and truck has been converted to electric cooling
b) tranny leak - replacing w/a 5MT to remove that altogether.

Now, the fan and controller were $300 combined, and the 5MT setup cost me nothing (bought the complete wrecked trooper and sold off misc parts to cover my purchase price).

Outside of those 2 things, the truck has been rock solid, and I've spent less than $500 on req'd maintenance items during that time. This year, I plan on spending another $500ish (ball joints, new plugs, new PS rack, new axle boots), but to me, having a rare vehicle for 4yrs with required expenditures of $1k or less is a steal.

I feel that I should also point out that my VX spent its life in TX, so it isn't susceptible to rust like a lot of the northern VXs.

[evillecutter]

I'm going to have to disagree w/that statement. I've owned my VX for over 50k miles and 3.5 yrs. In that time, there have only been 2 sources of consternation:
a) the overheating - finally determined it was a pulley, and it has been replaced, and truck has been converted to electric cooling
b) tranny leak - replacing w/a 5MT to remove that altogether.

Now, the fan and controller were $300 combined, and the 5MT setup cost me nothing (bought the complete wrecked trooper and sold off misc parts to cover my purchase price).

Outside of those 2 things, the truck has been rock solid, and I've spent less than $500 on req'd maintenance items during that time. This year, I plan on spending another $500ish (ball joints, new plugs, new PS rack, new axle boots), but to me, having a rare vehicle for 4yrs with required expenditures of $1k or less is a steal.

I feel that I should also point out that my VX spent its life in TX, so it isn't susceptible to rust like a lot of the northern VXs.

so the 5 speed swap was free? great deal! (in other words you sidestepped a $2000 rebuild)

and like i said - if you love to work on cars, which you obviously do since you converted everything stock to different operating systems, then there is no problem

[eternal21]

so the 5 speed swap was free? great deal! (in other words you sidestepped a $2000 rebuild)

Yeah, when everything was said and done, it was free. When I picked up the wrecked Trooper, I figured I would be able to get what I needed and flip it to cover the investment, which has turned out to be true. I sold the wheels and tires and a fender, and I was even. Still have the engine/transfer case/shell/interior, so I'll actually come out ahead.

But even then, $2000 for a tranny rebuild/swap over 3.5 years is still ~$600/year on average. Beats a car payment *lol*

And the tranny wasn't the problem. The problem is that the gaskets for the reservoir pan kept leaking. I didn't want to have to deal with the leak, and pretty much everything I have ever owned is a manual tranny, so I figured I'd go ahead and do the conversion.


and like i said - if you love to work on cars, which you obviously do since you converted everything stock to different operating systems, then there is no problem

And I wouldn't say that I love to work on cars; I would say
a) that I have ideas about what I think my vehicles should look/function like, and I don't mind doing a little wrenching to make my revisions come to fruition and
b) I *hate* paying exorbitant prices for shop labor when, with a little elbow grease, I can do the work myself and learn a little in the process. I'd rather be self-reliant, so at least I can make sure there were no short cuts taken when the work was done.

Besides, a lift w/big tires really brings the truck to life! *lol* The interior is getting to be a little dated, so there is some refreshing that needs to be done there, which has prompted some of my current/future mods.

I really don't care much to work on cars that I don't own, but I will help those in need when I can.

OP, what year 650i? I have a MT '08 E90 M3. Any mods?

[evillecutter]

lol dont sell yourself short eternal if you can swap out an automatic trans for a manual at home by yourself i would say you are pretty handy with a wrench!

and you are absolutely correct - ANY vehicle that is 14 years old will need repairs and will vary depending on previous usage/ownership or lack thereof...but it would be nice to be able to tell a mechanic what you have and have them say "ok no problem bring it in" rather than say "ugh...is that a honda??? isuzu?! wow i thought they stopped making them...wow...ugh..." (on the plus side this eliminates all of the weaker or less skilled mechanics because its still a car with normal car parts and an internal combustion engine so no good professional mechanic would ever just say no or act like you're a freak for calling or asking - which has happened more than a few times for me)

i have done most of the repairs on my vx myself so far and i prefer it that way but for the things i cant do it would be nice to not be the lepers of the truck world... but i guess thats what makes the vx special lol

[eternal21]

lol dont sell yourself short eternal if you can swap out an automatic trans for a manual at home by yourself i would say you are pretty handy with a wrench!

and you are absolutely correct - ANY vehicle that is 14 years old will need repairs and will vary depending on previous usage/ownership or lack thereof...but it would be nice to be able to tell a mechanic what you have and have them say "ok no problem bring it in" rather than say "ugh...is that a honda??? isuzu?! wow i thought they stopped making them...wow...ugh..." (on the plus side this eliminates all of the weaker or less skilled mechanics because its still a car with normal car parts and an internal combustion engine so no good professional mechanic would ever just say no or act like you're a freak for calling or asking - which has happened more than a few times for me)

i have done most of the repairs on my vx myself so far and i prefer it that way but for the things i cant do it would be nice to not be the lepers of the truck world... but i guess thats what makes the vx special lol

Believe me when I say I haven't done it myself. I've had a couple friends help me along the way, but I would say 85% of the work or so I've done. That last 15% or so, it really helps to have friends involved *lol*. Plus, this forum has been an invaluable resource, as have the people who have done this type of work before me.

If I ever had to call a mechanic, to gauge his/her skills, I'd tell 'em I have a Trooper :D. If they can work on a Trooper, they can work on a VX. They share the exact same drive train, so any good Trooper mechanic will be a good VX mechanic.

[tysamigo]

this goes with any vehicross: unless you have lots of money and/or love to work on cars, turn around, run, and dont look back...

Every time someone around town asks me.... "Hey, I saw one of your suv's for sale, you think I should get one?"

This is the PERFECT answer... I'm going to use it lol :yeso:

[Roody650i]

OP, what year 650i? I have a MT '08 E90 M3. Any mods?

It's actually a Kawasaki Brute Force 650i ATV, not a Bimmer...but I did just sell an '89 e30 Coupe

Going to look at the VX in about an hour!

[Roody650i]

Just got back from driving the VX. Unfortunately was fairly disappointed by it. Not sure if it was the general driving characteristics or this one in specific, but I expected it to be much more hunkered down feeling; it felt as if it was fairly hollow overall, not all that great in terms of on-road manners. Very well could have just been this specific VX though. Here's a rundown of what I found, much of which were points to be inspected as directed by everyone on this thread and in the thread provided by VX KAT:

-The vehicle came from NY and as such has a fair amount of underbody rust. Nothing I'd call concerning, but it's by no means a Florida car.

-The dealer has no service records for the vehicle. He *just* got it in and nothing came with it except for an owner's manual. Thus, no way to tell if it's had the timing belt, tensioner, water pump, or serpentine belt replaced. Additionally this means I don't know if it's the original engine or transmission

-The tires have about 5-10% tread left and would have to be replaced immediately. There goes $500-1000 into the vehicle. I would barely feel safe driving it home as-is on the tires that it has now.

-The ABS light is on and the system does not function at all. I hit the brakes pretty hard on some snow/ice and didn't get any ABS feedback whatsoever from the brake pedal. Between the horrible tires and lack of ABS it was a pretty scary ride coming to a complete stop from 30 MPH on a snowy patch of road. The dealer did say he would fix the ABS system prior to sale, but whether this would this be a real fix or a "fix" has me concerned. If I have to fix it myself, there's more money into it already.

-The lack of ABS and tread on the tires helped show that the TOD system does in fact function properly, lights included. Didn't get to try out 4-Low other than crawling for about 20' but it seemed to function as it should. Tried hard acceleration on snow/ice as was recommended and the TOD worked well giving the VX grip.

-The CV boots seemed to be in decent condition

-Didn't get a chance to open the hood to check the oil (already couldn't feel my fingers at this point of inspection); thus also couldn't see the condition of the battery

-There is some rust on the license plate areas, both front and rear

-Couldn't get to the bumper beam, thus couldn't tell if it was rusty

-The engine idled and ran up/down the RPM range fine; transmission held first gear a little long after startup when it was still cold, but after a few minutes it didn't hesitate any or slip at all

-Couldn't tell if there were any fluids dripping because it was parked on a recently plowed and sanded wet parking lot

-NVH was a little worse than expected, no strange noises but the steering wheel did vibrate slightly and the ride was not as compliant as expected

-Couldn't tell if the shocks were OEM or not

-The rear differential cover was somewhat rusty

-The exhaust looks as if an aftermarket tip was installed; definitely didn't sound like an aftermarket full exhaust, as the engine was much louder than the pipe itself

-There's a trailer hitch that is rusty as hell and would need to be removed

-U-Joints aren't looking too great

-The power windows *barely* worked; could be result of bad battery, but they needed manual help to go back up

-Interior is in good shape -- seats are ok but not great, door handles/levers are good, CD player is original, steering wheel is in ok shape (not great)

-Paint & cladding are decent - looks as if it got a love tap on the left rear (see pic), otherwise fine

-Part of the right front inner fender-well is hanging down and has to be re-attached

-Price is $5200


All in all I was fairly disappointed. Clearly this example needs some work and I'm not sure if I'm willing to do as much as it will really need. Figured if it needed some things here and there I would scoop it up and spend a little time working on it but there's a lot that this thing needs to get to good working shape before it can be road-trip worthy.

What are everyone's thoughts on this? Even if I buy it for $4000 it's going to immediately cost a couple grand more from the get-go; that makes it hard to justify unfortunately. It needs tires, a battery, the ABS system fixed, u-joints, shocks, and possibly more that I couldn't identify today. Add sales tax and registration and it's already a $6000+ vehicle. Thoughts?

Here's pictures of the VX - sorry they're not great, couldn't feel the fingers I was using and didn't feel like lying down on the wet pavement

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n169/roody25/DAF47E29-7AB3-4D24-A3C1-A032CC910002_zpsa5ogka7q.jpg
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n169/roody25/4DEEC1FF-1CB0-4A5E-A342-62A66594BF7A_zpsb3yfyqo1.jpg
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n169/roody25/5E07BBCF-3674-4109-81DD-09A6ECCFF60E_zpsp2dogxjr.jpg
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n169/roody25/73754784-7C4C-41BD-913C-570EA87D81C0_zpsgo70qzy5.jpg
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n169/roody25/E40467FD-4BD3-439A-87B4-64A411AEDEAC_zpsb8ygd8mh.jpg
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n169/roody25/437CA7D2-AA8F-4792-805F-0AA1BE7F1810_zpsavlpnexg.jpg
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n169/roody25/0BD56AC6-D352-446E-9FB9-8D4462A13959_zpsrolfl4nv.jpg
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n169/roody25/AC225610-2DC6-41F9-A8E4-95DAF1E608E1_zpsusq3so5h.jpg
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n169/roody25/B98E6ACF-6922-4B06-9431-6D9217C5CF25_zpso7dcxyaf.jpg
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n169/roody25/DC916EDF-37FA-4C32-B67E-79AF7F985F58_zpsgtyasvi8.jpg

[eternal21]

Not feeling the rust.

[Mile High VX]

Not feeling the rust.

x2...would be too much for me.

[tysamigo]

x3...personally I would consider this one a "part out" vehicle. I think its to much unless you got it for a couple thousand...especially not having ANY service records ...and you still dont know what problems hide under the hood...

I would continue your search for one that will make you smile when you see it, and not 2nd guess yourself

[Cobrajet]

personally I would consider this one a "part out" vehicle.
I respectfully disagree. The only "part out" candidate should be one with a wrecked body, bent frame, or fire damage. Unless the frame is rusted through, it can be cleaned up and made right. Whether it's cost effective for this owner may be questionable, but don't call it a lost cause quite yet.

I'm an old muscle car guy, and I've seen much worse project cars. This one doesn't sound that bad. Mostly unknowns and assumptions. It needs a good inspection and a little TLC, that's all. Go for it!!

[tysamigo]

You have valid points. "Part Out" was probably over the line, I'd like to retract it lol... nontheless I personally wouldn't be interested in such a "fixer upper"...especially without any service records

[TheGanzman]

Uh - go back and read my post, then go and do likewise...:winky:

[VX KAT]

With over 100k and all the rust.....honestly, I think $4,000 would still be a little too high for me. Anything under that would be a fair deal. ANd I don't think it's a total lost cause at all.
The tranny and engine both appeared to be operating normally from what you could tell....that's worth a lot right there!


ABS: NOT a big issue at all: $68.99 fix, guaranteed for life!
So you don't have to think mucho $$$$$ for ABS repair/replacement. *Yes, a new Isuzu ABS unit lists for around $3,000 and a salvage yard usually wants a couple hundred, but you don't have to go there!*
Start at post #51:
http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=14200&highlight=round+robin&page=2

THEN READ ALL OF THIS ONE:
http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=23339&highlight=dodge+abs



RUST: That rust does also scare me, and I guarantee you're going to find a whole lot of rusty stuff under the hood and even more on the undercarriage too.
I have a gazillion detailed pics of every part of the undercarriage on my rust free VX, just give me a shout if you want them so you have something to compare to, and assess severity.

But, there's many owners in the Snow Belt that deal with the rust. Here's just a few threads.
Jolly Roger VX'er has several detailed pics in his gallery about rust and how he replaced it with new metal.
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=505

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=17533&highlight=RUST

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=18762



TIRES:
Just a quick reminder that all 4 tires SHOULD be the same size, model and wear level (circumference), otherwise the TOD has been known to make some horrible noises. Some people it hasn't happened to, but it has to many others. So tires should be kept all reasonably the same.
I carried my full size spare on the roof in a basket, but I made sure to rotate into service so all 5 remained really close in circumference.



NVH - Many people are surprised by this when they first test drive.
The VX is by no means a smooth riding truck and really CAN NOT be made to be so. Even if you do the following mods, it will STILL be a very rough, vibrating ride on anything that's not perfectly smooth. BUT, most of us VX nutes don't really mind it.:goof:

BTW, you can easily tell if they're OEMs or not by whether they have a reservoir on them, and they're KYB brand. (At the time, only production car to ever have reservoirs shocks as OEM)

The short wheelbase is one reason.
The OEM shocks are INCREDIBLY stiff (intentionally). Many of us have replaced the shocks with Rancho RS9000XL- which are adjustable, but even the stiffest setting (9) is not as stiff as the OEMs.
Another thing that contributes to it is that the frame with the rear bump stops sit only about 1/2" above the rear axle and consequently, slams into the axle on virtually every bump. Many of us cut the rear bump stops in half, thus gaining about 4" inches of clearance before they hit the acle. It "improved" and greatly lessened the slamming effect from the rear.
There is some differences of opinion on whether this sould be done, but it's in these threads also.

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?p=274818#post274818


http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=21549&highlight=bump+stops+half


http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showpost.php?p=244328&postcount=10




INTERIOR
Steering wheel is in amazingly GOOD condition for age/miles, and the seat bolsters are also in excellent condition for age/miles!

AND let's not forget it also has the OEM roof rack! There's $300 - $350 value right there!

[bartmanS4]

It would all depend on the rust for me. Rust is not generally a factor for us in this part of the country. Paint, cladding, and interior look pretty good to me. Except for the rust my VX was definitely in worse shape than this one when I got it. I was looking for a project car though and that's exactly what I got. A lot of work, money, and mods have gone into it. If you're looking for a trouble free DD I'd pass. When I used to work at dealerships as a teenager the standard markup on used car trade-ins was $2500 if this still holds true that could mean that they only have about $2700 bucks into it. Can you get it for $3500??? The rear license plate illumination bracket is toast but it would be easy to fab a new one, front license plate holders are just clips. Just by looking at the other rust areas the front bumper bar is probably trash and would need to be replaced. The windows are a notorious problem but can be addressed for little to no money. Sue mentioned the ABS fix already. Tires and timing belt and thing start adding up quick eh?

[Roody650i]

OK so I'm thinking I'll give it another drive once the ice melts (not about to drive this thing on the 1/8" of ice we just got with no ABS and bald tires). Will try to look under the hood and will man up and just crawl all the way under it to check it out.

If everything looks decent I'll try to pick it up for around $4000. Any more and it's paying way too much; this thing is just above true "fixer upper" status.

[evillecutter]

ill sell you my proton for $7k its way nicer and has new tires

[Roody650i]

ill sell you my proton for $7k its way nicer and has new tires

Thanks but I'll pass, way out of my price range

If this one I've been looking at is still there in 2 weeks I'm going to walk in with $3500 cash and the guy can take it or leave it

[evillecutter]

when i showed up to test drive mine i wanted to talk them down on the price but then a bidding war started in the parking lot - at first i thought it was just people helping the guy sell it but i knew one of them from high school and i know he didnt have any connection to the seller - one was a guy who just won a couple million in the lottery and he told me he wanted to "put some monster truck tires on it and see what it can do" - part of me wish i would have let him have it because he prob had the money to make it way more awesome than i ever will - it was up to almost $1500 more than asking price but since i still wanted it they let me have it for the asking price - they were not happy