Crank case full of coolant

[Starglider]

Took my Vehicross on a long holiday drive last week, started losing coolant noticably, but I couldn't find any leak. I assumed it was a radiator issue so I topped it off and resolved to pressure test when I got home. Unfortunately at our last stop the car would not turn over in the morning. I cranked it and the engine turned about 20 degrees but no further. Then a seal blew out at the bottom of the crankcase and dumped all the coolant on the parking lot.

Looks like a coolant leak into the crank case that was slowly getting worse, then suddenly blew and flooded the engine overnight. Didn't lose any oil, just coolant. That explains some intermittent cat warning light and rough start issues I had earlier last week. I assume the only solution is engine rebuild? If so I might take the opportunity to upgrade my 3.2L JDM engine to the 3.5L you guys have (20% more torque); I can see a 3.5L 2nd gen Trooper for sale near me with only 60K on the clock (my VehiCROSS has 90k).

[vp277]

Most likely it's one of the headgaskets, you need to do a compression test to verify. Full rebuilt might not be needed, depending on how long you had coolant mixed with oil.

[Scott Larson]

Coolant in the oil will definitely take out your cam bearings not to mention just about every other bearing in the block, it's time for a rebuild. As vp stated, a headgasket is the most likely source of your troubles, if it's leaking between a coolant passage and an oil return passage a compression test will not reveal that. If it were a leak between a coolant passage and an oil supply passage you would have oil in your coolant as the oil pressure is much higher then the coolant pressure (roughly 60 pounds versus 12 pounds pressure). Coolant leaking into the cylinders produces thick white smoke. The other possibility is a cracked block. If it is the block, that motor is toast. You may want to secure that replacement engine. Best of luck, sorry about your woes...

[Leon R]

I guess it depends on how long you drove it with water in the crank case. I have seen people getting away with it, as long as they caught it quickly.

[Starglider]

Thanks for the advice Scott, you know a lot more about these engines than me. :)


I guess it depends on how long you drove it with water in the crank case. I have seen people getting away with it, as long as they caught it quickly.

Hard to say how much water was getting in before it flooded overnight. Given the likelihood of bearing damage and the risk of a cracked block I think swapping in a rebuilt engine is the way to go (3.5L if possible). Looking at donor cars (Troopers) now; will also give me a spare transmission just in case.

[Scott Larson]

I guess it depends on how long you drove it with water in the crank case. I have seen people getting away with it, as long as they caught it quickly.

If it were just water, you are absolutely correct as water does not have the same effect as antifreeze when mixed with oil. When mixed with oil, water will cause sludge to form degrading the lubrication properties of the oil but in the short-term, not catastrophically. The problem with antifreeze (ethylene glycol) is that when it mixes with oil, it increases the viscosity and glycolic acid is formed, the resulting imulsion becomes abrasive and corrosive attacking the softer bearing surfaces first (the cam bearings) along with the mains and the rod bearings, the cylinder walls will also become scuffed. This damage occurs very quickly once the oil has been contaminated. From what Starglider had posted, the contamination was not discovered until the crankcase was so full that the reduced case volume caused hydraulic-lock and blew the main seals when he attempted to restart it.

[evillecutter]

i dont know if i would consider the 3.2 to 3.5 an upgrade unless you can make sure it doesnt eat oil

[Y33TREKker]

... I assume the only solution is engine rebuild? If so I might take the opportunity to upgrade my 3.2L JDM engine to the 3.5L you guys have (20% more torque)
I'd probably view that one as a "while you're in there" situation. If the engine was going to have to be torn down far enough to replace the head gaskets, it wouldn't take all that much longer to check the various engine bearings and replace as necessary, especially since you'd most likely want to check for bent connecting rods anyway given the way you said the engine only turned over so far when you last tried to start it.

All in all though, an engine swap would probably be simplest though, so good luck if that's what you decide.

[Scott Larson]

I'd probably view that one as a "while you're in there" situation. If the engine was going to have to be torn down far enough to replace the head gaskets, it wouldn't take all that much longer to check the various engine bearings and replace as necessary, especially since you'd most likely want to check for bent connecting rods anyway given the way you said the engine only turned over so far when you last tried to start it.

All in all though, an engine swap would probably be simplest though, so good luck if that's what you decide.

Bent connecting rods would only occur if the hydraulic-lock was caused by flooded cylinders, not a flooded crankcase as indicated by blown main seals. The problem you'll encounter here is the possibility of stretched rod cap bolts or stretched rods, either of which will be catastrophic but highly unlikely as the main seals will act as a safety valve, so to speak. As far as teardown is concerned, replacing head gaskets only involves removing the heads. To inspect main or rod bearings, let alone to check for bent rods, requires a complete teardown necessitating engine removal. Blown main seals already makes for some extensive teardown. Engine replacement is the course I would take at this point, but that's just my opinion...

[Y33TREKker]

Bent connecting rods would only occur if the hydraulic-lock was caused by flooded cylinders, not a flooded crankcase as indicated by blown main seals. ..
All it would take is one flooded cylinder, and with a blown head gasket, seems very possible.

[Scott Larson]

So your hypothesis is not only a blown head gasket in the critical area of the coolant system/combustion chamber interface, but also a breach between the coolant system/crankcase interface, thereby flooding the block; seems highly unlikely...

[johnnyapollo]

I blew the head gasket on a 1975 Peugeot 504 Station Wagon back in the early 80's (paid a grand for it). Found out due to the lower hose blowing from the pressure but still managed to limp it home about 25 miles using tape - had to keep stopping and adding tape and water. I later pulled the head and it sat for about a year - long enough for the cylinders to fill with rust. I ended up selling the car for the same $500 (for the parts) - the buyer took fine sandpaper and removed the rust and used a bit of Marvel Mystery Oil to flush the block - put the heads back on it (with a gasket set) and it cranked right back up - it was still running with little or no loss of compression years later. Of course, that engine was more like a tractor motor than what we have, but the point is, your experiences may vary.

-- John

[Starglider]

I'm looking at buying a salvage US VehiCROSS, shipping it to the UK, and combining it with my JDM to make a hybrid mutant UberCROSS (e.g. swap in the leather seats, nicer trim and maybe cruise control you guys got as well as the engine). Cheaper than I thought, might be viable. The best looking salvage cars are the flood damaged ones, but how much mechanical damage is that likely to cause?

[Scott Larson]

That all depends on how high the water got. If it was high enough to enter the intake, that's bad. Also remember your TOD module and most sensors are below that level as well as the ECM and transmission, transfer case and differential breathers. The other factor is how long was it flooded and how long has it been since it was flooded and what was done immediately after to help mitigate the damages. It's always a gamble to buy flood damaged vehicles. There's a darn good reason why insurance companies total 'em even though they may look undamaged...

[Starglider]

That all depends on how high the water got. If it was high enough to enter the intake, that's bad. Also remember your TOD module and most sensors are below that level as well as the ECM and transmission, transfer case and differential breathers. The other factor is how long was it flooded and how long has it been since it was flooded and what was done immediately after to help mitigate the damages. It's always a gamble to buy flood damaged vehicles. There's a darn good reason why insurance companies total 'em even though they may look undamaged...

Well, I am mostly looking for the block, seats and cladding panels; the former should be pretty bulletproof and the later should be 'what you see is what you get'. Everything else on the car would be bonus spare parts.

[tom4bren]

Mebbe better off looking for a VX with a bad tranny/transfer case but with everything else OK.

[evillecutter]

Mebbe better off looking for a VX with a bad tranny/transfer case but with everything else OK.

x2 - you dont want a flood car

[Starglider]

Ok bidding on a side impact car now. A couple of cladding panels are written off but not the ones I want. Impact looks fairly minor actually, glass is ok and even the frame might be sound with realignment.

[Y33TREKker]

So your hypothesis is not only a blown head gasket in the critical area of the coolant system/combustion chamber interface, but also a breach between the coolant system/crankcase interface, thereby flooding the block; seems highly unlikely...
I was referring to a scenario of ONE possibly flooded CYLINDER resulting in ONE bent connecting rod when I said "all it takes is one". You're the only person here suggesting an entirely flooded block, which I agree, seems highly unlikely...

Good luck with the project of getting the VX back on the road Starglider.

[Scott Larson]

I was referring to a scenario of ONE possibly flooded CYLINDER resulting in ONE bent connecting rod when I said "all it takes is one". You're the only person here suggesting an entirely flooded block, which I agree, seems highly unlikely...

Good luck with the project of getting the VX back on the road Starglider.

Trek you duffus, Starglider already said the block was flooded. That's why it popped the main seals when he attempted to restart it, it caused hydraulic lock in the case rather then in the cylinders. You really should learn to read the entire thread before you fire up your drug-addled brain and engage your typing fingers...:slap:

[Y33TREKker]

Trek you duffus, Starglider already said the block was flooded. That's why it popped the main seals when he attempted to restart it, it caused hydraulic lock in the case rather then in the cylinders. You really should learn to read the entire thread before you fire up your drug-addled brain and engage your typing fingers...:slap:
Actually, what Starglider said was that the CRANKCASE was flooded.

What I was suggesting is that ONE flooded cylinder might have been in the area where the suspected head gasket had blown...since all is takes is ONE such cylinder to create hydraulic lock in an engine...and ONE such coolant path/leak to flood a crankcase.

You should really learn to take your time and know what you're actually talking about before you get into such an apparent hurry to make your unfounded personal accusations and point out how you think I'm wrong about the mechanical issues I'm trying to help other members with...

...because it makes you look like a yappy, ankle-biting dufus who is just trying too hard to perpetuate your obvious petty and on-going grudge against me by following me around to whatever thread I comment in after you've realized that I was ignoring you in the PREVIOUS thread where you were behaving like a yappy, ankle-biting dufus......

So try to remember this time, you suggesting I'm a drug-addled troll just to feel better about yourself doesn't make your suggestion a reality. ;)

[Scott Larson]

Actually, what Starglider said was that the CRANKCASE was flooded.

What I was suggesting is that ONE flooded cylinder might have been in the area where the suspected head gasket had blown...since all is takes is ONE such cylinder to create hydraulic lock in an engine...and ONE such coolant path/leak to flood a crankcase.

You should really learn to take your time and know what you're actually talking about before you get into such an apparent hurry to make your unfounded personal accusations and point out how you think I'm wrong about the mechanical issues I'm trying to help other members with...

...because it makes you look like a yappy, ankle-biting dufus who is just trying too hard to perpetuate your obvious petty and on-going grudge against me by following me around to whatever thread I comment in after you've realized that I was ignoring you in the PREVIOUS thread where you were behaving like a yappy, ankle-biting dufus......

So try to remember this time, you suggesting I'm a drug-addled troll just to feel better about yourself doesn't make your suggestion a reality. ;)

Trekkie, Trekkie, Trekkie, you do realise that the block and the case/crankcase are the same thing, do you not? Also, I could have sworn that you stated that only I was suggesting that an entirely flooded block was to blame for Stargliders dilemma when he stated from the start that that was what had occured! You've already admitted that the chances of both a flooded cylinder and a flooded block are highly unlikely, yet you defend your hypothesis! As to whether or not I have a clue when it comes to engines and automotive mechanics, lets just say that I have a few years of training and practical experience under my 57 year old belt, shall we? And about that "yappy, ankle-biting" thing, if I recall correctly (and anyone please correct me if I'm wrong here) you have become the king of yappy, ankle-biters on this forum. There is nothing said or done that you won't snip at, heck, you will actually chase a member from thread to thread just to get your lame-azz point across! I just don't understand Trekkie why you refuse to stay with your prescribed meds rather then the ones you continue to purchase illegally on the streets...yer makin' it hard to root for ya bro! :slap:

[Starglider]

I will try to find out exactly what failed when I pull the engine.

[Y33TREKker]

Trekkie, Trekkie, Trekkie, you do realise that the block and the case/crankcase are the same thing, do you not? Also, I could have sworn...
Well there's your problem Scott, you shouldn't swear. It only ends up making you get in too much of a hurry, causing you to misread things, and in the process look like a child who's trying too hard to seem grown up.

And it's obvious you don't realize how transparent you've just been by accusing me of "chasing a member from thread to thread to get a lame-azz point across" when that more accurately describes what you've done in this thread. After all, it was you who started quoting/second-guessing me in this thread, when my post had nothing to do with what you'd already said.

And your either/or mentality is rearing it's ugly head again in your quest to prove me wrong. Crankcase does not describe the entire block. A crankcase is a PORTION of a block...where the crank is...hence the name. Understand? An entirely flooded block would mean that every passage in the engine from the bottom of the CRANKCASE to the top of the heads would be flooded. (Seems there's apparently nothing you won't snip at though as you're running around yapping and ankle-biting. :p )

And seriously, are you STILL on the "meds" thing? Everyone knows that's one of the lazy, last resort tactics of someone who is counting TOO much on the safety of numbers, status quo mentality to prove them right about something.

The sad thing is that even if what you were suggesting about me WAS true, I'd have still proven myself to be able to think more clearly than you about the topics you've chased me around at the ankles yapping about. :p

[tom4bren]

Guys - take this yellow shoelace contest back to the 'scared meself' thread. I don't think that glider is through with technical questions & stuff yet so doesn't need this thread to go down the pooper.

Glider - I like your idea of a used engine replacement to keep you mobile whilst you dig into your siezed engine. Both the coolant leak & the lock up could be any number of things (bad to catastrophic - I assume that nothing good could come from a seized engine). Once you begin to tear down your seized engine, you should find out pretty quickly how bad it is & whether it's worth continuing. Best of luck.

[Scott Larson]

X2 on what Tom said...I still prefer to stay on-topic, on this and every other thread! This is an information-sharing and socializing forum dedicated to the unique vehicle that the VehiCross is. Guys should just discreetly agree to meet and "work-out" their differences someplace else...:drama:

[Triathlete]

The good thing about rebuilding the old engine is while it's down and apart you can put the newer designed pistons/rings in it and end your oil burning problems!

[Y33TREKker]

Guys should just discreetly agree to meet and "work-out" their differences someplace else...:drama:
Grow up.

[tom4bren]

Ok bidding on a side impact car now. A couple of cladding panels are written off but not the ones I want. Impact looks fairly minor actually, glass is ok and even the frame might be sound with realignment.

Update???

[Scott Larson]

Grow up.

I'm tryin' dude, but it's hard...:rotate: :cool!:

[Starglider]

Bought my second VX! Only 60k on the clock but looks a little distressed, also pickup may be tricky as I am in London and the car is in Iowa...

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/stargliderx/12387113_6_I_zps5d41db59.jpeg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/stargliderx/12387113_1_I_zps7cbb795a.jpeg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/stargliderx/12387113_5_I_zps7f06175a.jpeg

Have all the parts for a full engine rebuild, plan to combine US and JDM parts into a hybrid mutant is go. Will be glad to have a spare trans / transfer case / ToD controller as well.

Supercharger plan is sadly on hold for now due to funds and not being able to understand Russian instructions properly. :)

[tom4bren]

Glad you're getting what you need. Keep us posted on your re-build.

[Starglider]

Car has finally been picked up from the salvage yard (in Iowa), took a while because of all the snow you guys are having. Will go to Houston and then across the Atlantic, should arrive in Felixstowe in three weeks or so.

[tom4bren]

WooHoo. Really glad your beastie is getting the upgrade.

[Leon R]

Nice find!

BTW, most of us in US would have a problem with this pick up ;)

[Starglider]

Picked up the wrecked USDM VX from Felixstowe port this week;

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/stargliderx/vehicrash1_zps6f4c1cf6.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/stargliderx/vehicrash2_zps9e3b6903.jpg

Will get the engine pulled out, rebuilt and swapped into my silver JDM car. I also want those US side markers, don't know why I like them but I do, and of course the leather seats. The rest will be broken for spares.

Must say I didn't appreciate just how much a mild lift improves the look of the VX until I saw this parked next to my silver JDM (which was already lifted when I bought it). Makes the car a bit more distinct than all the modern fake-4x4 crossovers.

[Y33TREKker]

Good luck with the swap.

[David Wiltshire]

The wheels look nice too

[Starglider]

The engine swap and rebuild is finally complete, car is now running and passed MOT. Had to swap the transmission as well in the end, turns out the USDM engine has a slightly different bolt pattern than the bellhousing on the JDM engine. Kept my JDM transfer case as I wanted to keep the two wheel drive mode. I also replaced all the exterior lighting (other than the headlights) with LEDs - had to replace the blinker module as well to suppress the 'bulb fail' warning.

Next things to do;
1) Re-gas the aircon
2) Re-enable the LPG system
3) Replace somewhat rusted exhaust with larger bore stainless one / twin exhaust tips
4) Mount roof rack, replace lightbar with modern LED ones.
5) Get those 18" USDM chrome wheels restored + new tyres, replace the JDM 16" wheels.
6) Mount + wire up USDM side markers.
7) Break the remains of the USDM car for useful parts.

Supercharger is currently dismounted because I haven't found a way to make it compatible with the LPG fuel system yet; still working on this. Looking at a three tone vinyl wrap (stainless upper / carbon fibre on the cladding / 'titanium' on the hood insert). Will eventually get to the interior and entertainment system.

The car has developed a fault post-swap, though it's more annoying than serious. In TOD mode the car starts and drives fine; 4L also works with no problems. However after a few minutes in 2WD mode the rear wheel LEDs blink and the 'check transmission' warning light blinks on the TOD panel. It doesn't seem to affect the transmission at all; the car stays in 2WD mode, the front wheel LEDs don't come on and the TOD clutch doesn't activate. My guess would be a microswitch or wire/contact on the transmission mode selector has failed and the TOD computer is incorrectly activating, even though the transmission is mechanically locked in 2WD-only mode.

[Starglider]

Air-con now gassed and working properly. It turned out to be yet another difference between the JDM and USDM cars; the connectors (wiring loom to A/C pump) looked similar at first glance but actually weren't, the A/C guy had to cut and solder them. The VX is now down at the exhaust shop getting a custom stainless one welded up. I told them to be sure to reproduce the heatshield where the exhaust runs next the transfer case.

[Starglider]

The new stainless exhaust on, 2 1/4" tubing with smooth joints (not stamped like the original Y piece), hi-flow sports cat and muffler. Sounds good and the engine seems to rev quicker; the welding guy said it was definitely flowing better. Went with the PowerFlow ANIMAL tip;

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/stargliderx/vx-rear_zpsaa3f8878.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/stargliderx/exhaust_zps29986ed1.jpg

Alas some new problems;

1) The front differential is toast. Was making a really loud whine in TOD mode and making clicking noises on reverse (even in 2WD mode). Then it started juddering in reverse, then it locked up and refused to reverse at all. Unfortuantely while I was on a trip; I managed to limp home but it was making grinding noises by the end, I'm sure the internals are scrap. Fortunately should be easy to fix, I'll just swap in the spare from the crashed USDM VX I have. Will top off the rear LSD oil while I'm at it.

2) The engine is overheating on longer drives. For the engine rebuild I replaced the water pump but foolishly not the thermostat, will do that now. Also thinking of ditching the viscous coupling fan and putting in a couple of electric fans, might as well replace the radiator with a brand new one while I'm at it. I saw a guy on Ebay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/ISUZU-VEHICROSS-ELECTRONIC-COOLING-FAN-CONVERSION-KIT-/160609587837) making custom shrouds for the VehiCROSS, would be convenient (assuming it covers the trans oil cooler properly as well), but he refuses to ship to the UK. Would anyone be willing to forward a parcel to the UK, would be happy to pay a reasonable fee?

After that I have a new alloy towball, stainless electrical socket bracket and some better LED fog lights to go on to make the back end look better.

[Starglider]

Finally got that electric fan kit, plus a new thermostat, radiator, hoses, temp sensor. Hopefully that will solve the overheating. Next problem, the chrome plating on the 18" US car's wheels is peeling off, only slightly on the exterior but really badly on the inside of the wheel. Literally no one in the UK re-chromes alloy wheels; I tried about 10 different wheel refinishing and electroplating places, a couple did steel wheels for classic cars but that's it. Apparently chrome plated wheels only make sense in California, not the rainy UK. Finally found somewhere near Southampton that will chemically strip the wheels down to the alloy then chrome-effect powder coat them. I have this stuff on my DeLorean (engine block) and it seems to last much longer and look nearly as good as actual chrome anyway.

[tom4bren]

impressive progress.

You'll have one heck of beastie when you're done!!!

[Starglider]

Radiator didn't fit. I'm planning to get one of those custom aluminium racing radiators from the US for Christmas, will stick with stock for now. New thermostat and electric fan kit are in. Changing the diff is proving to be a big job, the front suspension of both cars is completely in pieces at the moment.

David Wiltshire turned up on Sunday and took the front windows, motors and heater control module. Nice bloke, told me he was thinking of getting a Cayenne but would still keep the VX because he likes it so much. I'm going to store as much of the parts from the car as I can in my garage, including all the remaining glass, so if anyone else in the UK needs a VX-specific part hopefully I can help out.

[eternal21]

Finally got that electric fan kit, plus a new thermostat, radiator, hoses, temp sensor. Hopefully that will solve the overheating.

I've been through 2-3 electric fan setups/configurations, thermostat, temp sensor, hoses and my truck still repeatedly overheated. Got a Ron Davis radiator, still overheated. The only thing that stopped the overheating was replacing the stock fan clutch w/another one. Works like a champ now.

[Starglider]

Front differential, thermostat, temp sensor and pipes replaced. Electric cooling fan kit is in, the fan itself seems to be working fine, but the sensor is a worthless 'glue onto radiator surface' job that never triggers. I've wired the fan to always-on for now, will get a proper in-tube cooling switch later.

New problems :
1) ABS warning light is on; presumably a front sensor wiring issue, will check when I put the stripped/recoated US wheels on.
2) surging / stalling idle plus temporary RPM drop on throttle up. I pulled a 'MAF system error' trouble code from the OBD2. Might just be dirty but I think it's safer to just replace it, I'll replace the pod filter and the fuel line filter while I'm at.

Old problems;
3) Using the (JDM-only) 2 wheel drive mode is still causing a 'TOD module error' warning despite it mechanically working fine.
4) 'D' bulb is burned out on the transmission mode display. I'll replace all the dash bulbs with LEDs at some point.

At David and Kat's suggestion, I've ordered a set of Rancho shocks, should improve the ride. I'm reluctant to remove the rear spring assisters though, as I do tow a 2 tonne trailer with the VX fairly regularly.

[David Wiltshire]

It was nice to meet you Michael I am sure the Rancho's will improve the ride immeasurably.

[Starglider]

That electric fan kit is definitely doing the job, temperature is pegged at 40% of the scale and doesn't budge after hours of high speed driving. Of course this is winter in the UK, summer in Texas is a different matter. New fuel filter is in, new MAF sensor hasn't arrived yet but the underfueling issue seems to have gone away for now.

Rancho shocks are also in; I got the local garage to do that as I don't have a spring compressor. The VX is riding a lot more like a car now, albeit a car with sports suspension. My wife definitely likes it more now. Had to install the rear shocks upside down due to clearance issues though! The USDM tires have been stripped (of peeling chrome) and powercoated; I'll put them on this weekend and take some photos.

Good news; the Autogas (LPG) place say they can drill the Alpine supercharger manifold for propane injectors no problem, there's enough clearance to get them right next to the ports so no safety issues (single central injector based LPG systems tend to make superchargers explode). So I will be installing the supercharger kit as soon as I have time, then taking the VX back to the Autogas place to get the dual-fuel capability back. I've got two hood scoops with stainless inserts to go on as well, haven't had time to modify the spare hood inset to take them yet.

[Starglider]

USDM vs JDM wheels.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/stargliderx/wheel-swap_zps6d0f446d.jpg

The US wheels definitely look more contemporary.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/stargliderx/wheel-swap-done_zpsc2f59c1f.jpg

Next things : fit supercharger, mount roof rack, replace rusted tow ball with alloy tow ball.

[David Wiltshire]

Very nice I like the wheels, I mentioned to Fabrice who is the guy who bought my VX and also has one he owned before buying mine that you may have some spares that he would be interested in.
I've tried to search for him on the forum but so far can't find him, I'll pm him so that he can get in touch with you.