CV Axle replacement

[VehiTONY]

OK, so I believe I have found the source of many problems. I have just purchased me VX a week ago and found that the TOD system didn't work and had the check light flashing. So i took it for another test run in some sand (in 4L) and could hear clicking from under the VX while going slowly straight. Then more prominent while turning sharply all the way only..... So I checked the CV's when I got home and found at first glance the boots looked good, but where both split in the grooves.

So the question is should I replace the CV axles or are they salvageable? Can I just clean them, repack grease, and just replace the boots?... Also, is it hard to do? Any special tools?

Thanks for any help!

[tom4bren]

There are quite a few threads on this subject. Use the search function on the home page to find hours of reading enjoyment.

IMHO, if your CVs are making a noise, it's too late for them. Better start thinking about replacements.

The good news is that CV boots (even half shaft) replacements are well within the capabilities of a shade tree mechanic (I know 'cuz I are one & I've done it).

My boots gave up the ghost when I was about 200 miles from home. By the time I got home & replaced the boots & repacked the joints, it didn't do any good ... CVs were toast.

[Triathlete]

Yep, noise means replace. A fairly simple process but messy.

[JAMAS]

what part goes bad when they go bad? Do the cups get ground down, or is it the gear or bearings???

are the axles an easy part to locate?

I replaced both inner and outer boot on my passenger side after I noticed a tear, but no noise and will be replacing my driver side inner and outer boot due to dry rot that will become a tear. I am hoping that will be good for awhile, but its always nice to know about my backup plan.

[tom4bren]

The balls (bearings) wear a groove into the green cup (outer race) and in the star (inner race). As the bearings slip into & out of the worn grooves, that's what causes the clicking sound.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cv_joint

has an animated graphic that'll help you to see what's going on.

[VehiTONY]

Thanks everyone for the info..
If it's pretty easy then I may try it. I'm not a mechanic but have replaced hubs in a Nissan and other similar stuff. Just a little worried about the time it wil take me since I work 6 days a week.

[JAMAS]

The balls (bearings) wear a groove into the green cup (outer race) and in the star (inner race). As the bearings slip into & out of the worn grooves, that's what causes the clicking sound.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cv_joint

has an animated graphic that'll help you to see what's going on.

Ah. Ok. that makes sense.

So in case I or someone else hears the clicking of a worn CV, is the problem mostly an irritating noise that is only corrected by a replacement and can be driven for awhile before repair? Or does it need to be fixed immediately to avoid further damage to other parts?

I only ask because I am replacing both sets of boots before a 3k mile journey to MOAB. If I goofed up and did a bad job cleaning, or didnt install somthing perfect and I hear the clicking suddenly on my way, am I safe to continue?

[tom4bren]

The clicking will get progressively worse. Eventually the joint could get bad enough to bind & explode. The clicking will get so bad that you won't be able to stand it long before it would get to the point of exploding.

CV joints are actually pretty strong & are designed to last the life of the vehicle. They typically only go bad if the boot is torn and contaminates get in. I'm sure you cleaned & lubed well enough that you won't have anything to worry about on your trip to Moab.

[JAMAS]

The clicking will get progressively worse. Eventually the joint could get bad enough to bind & explode. The clicking will get so bad that you won't be able to stand it long before it would get to the point of exploding.

CV joints are actually pretty strong & are designed to last the life of the vehicle. They typically only go bad if the boot is torn and contaminates get in. I'm sure you cleaned & lubed well enough that you won't have anything to worry about on your trip to Moab.

I hope so. I cleaned the parts that were taken apart from the inner joint real good and tried to get the majority of the old grease from the outer joint, but didnt use any brake cleaner since I was working in a closed in garage with the doors all shut. I filled it really good with the grease the was provided. I guess time will tell.

The boot was torn, but not blown apart, so maybe I got a little lucky and didn't get many contaminants in there.

[JAMAS]

Sorry VehiTONY...I realized I just totally jacked your thread.

hopefully some of the answers to my questions helped you.

[MSHardeman]

This thread lists out some replacement axles for the VX:
http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?threadid=24109

If your "green cup" (outer race of the inner joint) isn't scared and pitted then just replacing the "half shafts" (the axle that goes from the green cup out to the wheel with both CV joints) would fix your problem. I've never done that specific repair before, but others who have done it make it sound like a relatively easy job. MESSY and time consuming, but easy.

I have some clicking going on on my driver side, and I'm pretty sure that it is my green cup (we call it that because it is painted green on the original axles) is the issue. I had it rebuilt once already, so I have a feeling that the fix has finally un-fixed itself after three or four years. I have ordered both complete axle assemblies listed in the thread above and this weekend I plan on replacing both axles. If you can wait, I will have many pictures of the repair so that others can see what needs to be done.

[JAMAS]

Well gosh, those half shafts are cheaper than replacing inner and outer boots. Darn it!

hind sight is definitely 20/20.

[VehiTONY]

Sorry VehiTONY...I realized I just totally jacked your thread.

hopefully some of the answers to my questions helped you.

All the answers to yours and mine have helped... I know enough to know they will still last but I am wondering if this is the cause of the TOD system check light being on also. The 4high does not engage at all. I was told to check all the connections and haven't had the chance yet, but thought I would do that at the same time as the axle.

The CV doesn't make any noise what so ever while im just driving around either. only when I manually engage the 4low and only when turning sharp. Like turning all the way to one side.

[tom4bren]

FYI, sharp cornering stresses the outter CVs while flexing the suspension stresses the inner CVs. So, it sounds like your trouble is in your outters. Not that it makes any difference since they both get replaced with the new axles.

& no, noisy CVs shouldn't cause a TOD check light. That is typically a bad sensor.

[VehiTONY]

FYI, sharp cornering stresses the outter CVs while flexing the suspension stresses the inner CVs. So, it sounds like your trouble is in your outters. Not that it makes any difference since they both get replaced with the new axles.

& no, noisy CVs shouldn't cause a TOD check light. That is typically a bad sensor.

Thanks for the info, I'll be sure to check all the sensors then when I get under there.

[tom4bren]

There's a way to get the computer to tell you which sensor is bad. I'll have to find the instructions - something about shorting 2 pins on the OBD II connector & counting the number of flashes of the TOD check light.

But go ahead and check all the connectors first & check all wiring near the exhaust for burns & shorts. Either of those can cause the computer to think you have a bad sensor.

[tom4bren]

The procedure is in this pdf file.

[VehiTONY]

The procedure is in this pdf file.

ok, I found code 31 is displaying. Which is shorted or disconnected coil wiring. Any idea where I should start looking for that?

[tom4bren]

IIRC someone posted that they had melted TOD wire insulation where it got too close to the exhaust. I'd start there.

[VehiTONY]

Well, I did find some wires near the exaust that had some heat damage, but didn't seem to be the problem.... In fact I checked all the connections on the transfer case that I could find with no resolve yet.

[nfpgasmask]

Yeah, I need to look under the shifter assembly. I have the same issue with my VX, and I would like to think it is simply broken wires as well. I had the TOD check light come on and the codes are front and rear speed sensors. But I cannot see how the wires for the speed sensors are anywhere near the exhaust, but I really haven't had time to crawl up under there.

In order to see the top of the trans, you have to undo the shifter from the side of the trans underneath so it can all be pulled up. I'm hoping to get to this on mine soon and with any luck, I will find the broken or disconnected wires.

Bart

[VehiTONY]

Let me know what you find... Does your 4L work? Mine still works fine with the exception of the 4H not working. Wish I could manually engage that one.

I'll continue to look at everything and try to trace the wires back every chance I get but that will have to come in sperts do to lack of time and or patients. Besides i'm a little more worried about the front axles for the moment. Only the drivers side is bad but the boot on the passenger has a hole so getting that done is priority.

[nfpgasmask]

Yeah, same situation for me. 4LO works fine. It's just weird that it popped up out of the blue. Just driving along one day and it started flashing. This is why I suspect melted or disconnected wires.

Bart

[VehiTONY]

Hey, I bought new axles for the front... Will be putting them on later so I'll have some pictures to post up here.

[VehiTONY]

Well it turns out that my axles both are stuck in the casing so have to wait till Tuesday to have the job done.

[Triathlete]

Are you replacing the whole axle or just the half shafts? Where are they "stuck"?

[nfpgasmask]

Yeah, you probably are pulling on the half shafts and you need to remove the large retaining ring. Are you stuck at the "green soup can"?

Bart

[VehiTONY]

How do you remove the ring?

[bartmanS4]

Pry it out with a screwdriver. It's a flexible split ring.

[PK]

You have to clean the grease out first, so that you can see the ring.
Look all around for the join, and lift up one end with a small screwdriver.
Once you have it started the rest just flips out.

PK

[VehiTONY]

I don't understand.. where is located then?

[VehiTONY]

Yes stuck at the green cup... Where is the ring located?

[nfpgasmask]

I use a pick, comes right out. Or you can use a tiny screwdriver to lift it up.

Look here at CV SNAP RING AND CIRCLIP. Its the big circular ring.
http://www.isuzugeek.org/forumpics/vx/vxfrntaxl1.jpg

It will also help to push the CV in to give you room to pull out the circlip. When you are pulling it out, it will be harder to get at the ring. You can cleanout the grease to help see it, but you really don't need to, you can just fish it out with a curled pick if you have one.

HTH,

Bart

[Triathlete]

It is about a 1/4 inch in from the rim. Itsits in a groove. After cleaning some of the grease away you can feel it with your fingers and of its clean enough you can see it. Use a small flat screwdriver to lift it out.

[Triathlete]

You were typing at the same time as I was Bart ;)

[VehiTONY]

OK, here is the deal. I believe you guys are talking about the hub, correct? .... I am talking about the shafts that go into the housing for the front axles. Maybe i'm not using the correct terms. ........ What happened is everything came off all the way down to the outer CV joints. Including the outer CV joints themselves where pulled apart since the boots where ripped inside the crease..... after that, from what I understand the shafts should pull right out of the housing, correct?

[nfpgasmask]

OK, you have the outer CV joint and the inner CV joint. We are talking about the inner CV joint here. Meaning, the joint closest to the differential. That joint is retained with a large C-clip on the inside of the "green cup" that the CV is in. It is covered by the INNER boot. You have to remove the inner boot band clamp, then pull the boot off the lip of the cup. Then, using a screwdriver or pick, you have to fish out the large C-clip. The joint will slide out of the "green cup". The "green cup" cannot be removed unless you drop the front axle. So no, we are not talking about the hub assembly. It sounds like you are past that part now.

Take a photo of where you are at and post it, this will help us see where you are at.

Bart

[VehiTONY]

ok, I'm on the same page with you now..... But if that clip is on the inside the green cup, how do you put the new boot back on? I thought the band clamps where permanent and would be destroyed when removed.

[Triathlete]

Use a heavy duty zip-tie.

[VehiTONY]

thank you!!

[nfpgasmask]

ok, I'm on the same page with you now..... But if that clip is on the inside the green cup, how do you put the new boot back on? I thought the band clamps where permanent and would be destroyed when removed.
Correct. Typically, when you are redoing your CVs, you are replacing the boots at the same time. Even if only your outer boot is cracked, you should replace both boots while you are in there. If you are replacing the entire half shaft with a new one, it should come with the outer shaft already greased and booted, and the inner shaft with the boot on there, and then you just have to grease the cup and CV joint, insert it into the cup, replace the retaining ring, pull the boot over the cup, and attach a new band clamp.

When I did mine, I just cleaned and lubed the CV joints and replaced both boots. As Billy said, you might be able to get away with a heavy duty zip tie, but a proper band clamp attached with the proper tool is really the best way to go.

This is the tool you want, any parts store should have one for sale.

http://www.summitracing.com/nv/parts/wmr-w83013/overview/

So, are you installing new CVs or just regreasing and replacing boots?

This should also help: http://blog.isuzugeek.org/2011/08/vehicross-front-axle-rebuild.html

Mind you, when I did mine, I was also replacing the inner axle seals, so I had the whole axle dropped, but the pics might help.

Bart

[MSHardeman]

Bart, I am smack in the middle of replacing both of my front axles. I thought that my driver side inner CV joint outer bearing race (green cup) was totally knackered due to a lot of clacking when the front wheels get power, but after taking the driver side half shafts off it looks like a lot of water got into the outer CV joint and that is the one that is clacking. I bought complete SurTrak axles and right now I'm contemplating just replacing the half shafts, but that would mean breaking down the complete SurTrak axles. At this point I'm almost inclined to go ahead with the replacement just to make sure that everything is up to par.

I bought all of the replacement bearings and oil seals so I am ready to complete the job. My question right now is; how did you remove (or did you) the little needle bearings from the knuckles? I have new ones that I would like to install, but I haven't completely removed the knuckles (yet) so pressing the old bearing out and the new one in isn't an option right now. I don't have a pickle fork to break the pitman arm or the ball joints loose, but I suppose that I could rent one. Is it possible to get the needle bearing out, and back in, with out a press and without removing the whole knuckle?

Thanks for the help.

[nfpgasmask]

Hey Mark,

First off, I think for the sake of everyone reading this, that the term "CV half shaft" refers to both the inner and outer CV unit as a whole. Basically, everything from the inner CV balls and cage to the tip of the axle shaft. That whole thing is your CV half shaft. I think they call them that because it is only one half of the axle assembly, the other half being the other side.

I've never bought half shafts for the VX, but I have bought them several times for the Trooper, and it comes with the outer CV greased, booted and ready to go, and the inner ready for grease with the boot in place just needing to be put into the green cup, and clamped down. I do not think you could (or should) break apart the replacement shafts, you should probably just use the whole unit.

Now, as for the needle bearing in the knuckle, I think you have to press them out. I did not press mine out. We have a parts washer at work, so I just brought them to work, cleaned them thoroughly, and regreased them. I don't think you really need to replace them unless you got a lot of water in there and they got rusty, which I have seen before if the seals were leaking.

A pickle fork is really cheap, and you can get one anywhere, however a pickle fork will destroy the boots on your tie rods and steering centerlink if you need to use it. When I did my VX front end, I replaced the tie rod ends, ball joints and the steering link at the same time. Once you are in that deep you might as well. You will find that it is difficult, but not impossible to remove the CV half shaft with the ball joints still attached the knuckle. You might have just enough clearance to push the joint all the way in as far as you can, and slide the outer most portion of the axle out the back of the knuckle. But it ain't easy. Hell, none of this front end work is really easy, or cheap for that matter.

I am right in the middle of installing 4.77s into my Trooper so I am right with you guys on this. It's a hard, messy job for the do-it-yourselfer.

Bart

[nfpgasmask]

Just found this pic.

http://images.wrenchead.com/smartpages/partinfo_resize/WOH/IZ-8021.jpg

That whole thing is the "cv half shaft". This is exactly how they come from Napa for my Trooper. So you can see, the outer cv is done and ready for install. The inner one just requires grease, and some grease in the green cup, then you insert the cv into the green cup, replace the large c-clip, pull the boot over the cup and reclamp it. Done.

But Mark, I see what you are saying. I think you could take everything off the outer portion of the axle and then rebuild it from there. Never tried it, but you could. It would suck though because I assume your outer boot is already clamped in place and ready to go. So you would have to source a new CV boot clamp or use a zip tie or something.

Bart

[MSHardeman]

Bart, I bought both of the complete SurTrack axle from the third member out to the wheel ( http://surtrack.mycarparts.net/products/SurTrack%20Performance%20Axles-IZ-8010?product_application_id=3024658431 ). It came completely assembled with both inner and outer CV joints complete with boots installed. I am in the middle of an internal debate now, since my "green cup" is OK. Debate is whether to continue forward with replacing the complete axle from the third member out or to disassemble the brand new complete axle and just install the half shafts in my existing green cup. That way I wouldn't need to get into the axle housing at all and wouldn't have to drop the whole axle assembly.

I have a feeling that I'm just going to continue on and install the complete SurTrack axle as that was my plan in the first place. I currently have the driver side half shaft out, and the green cup exposed. The next step is to disassemble the passenger side and then drop the axle housing so I can get the axles out of it. I'm just hoping that I get all of the oil seals installed correctly and don't end up creating a leak where there isn't one now.

Thanks for the heads up on the needle bearing in the knuckle. I'll just give it a good cleaning and then re-pack it with grease before re-installing everything. Hopefully I can get everything put back together without having to remove the knuckles.

I'm sure I'll be asking more questions as I go along.

[nfpgasmask]

Ahhh, I see. So ok, yeah, in order to install that whole unit, you will indeed have to drop the whole front axle. Or at least I think it would be pretty damn difficult to do it without taking the axle housing out completely.

This is where the frustration begins, because I had one serious hell of a time getting the axle to drop clear without removal of the steering centerlink. I am in the same boat right at this moment with my Trooper, switching to 4.77s and in the process of doing so, I have to remove the front axle entirely. For the life of me, I cannot get the axle to drop all the way, because the steering link is in the way. So I am now faced with removing it, which is a serious pain and will likely force you to replace it as well. I've never been able to get one off without mangling the boots.

The pisser in your case is that if you had two extra CV band clamps, you could just leave your axle up and do it from the inner CV out.

Good luck,

Bart

[VXorado]

Mark,

If you end up dropping the diff to replace the complete axle assembly (half shaft+jack shaft), make sure to get new seals for the axle shafts. When I replaced mine (the third time :_brickwal), I reused the old seals and got a leak. It was awful having to drop the entire diff again to replace one seal. Honestly, I wouldn't drop the diff if the green cups are in good shape. The OEM green cups will be stronger than these aftermarket sets. In this case, just make sure the new CVs are the same size as the OEM CVs.

[VXorado]

I do not think you could (or should) break apart the replacement shafts, you should probably just use the whole unit.



Unfortunately, I don't think you can replace the halfshafts with the jack shaft attached. There's just not enough clearance on the lower A-arm to green cup.

[nfpgasmask]

Unfortunately, I don't think you can replace the halfshafts with the jack shaft attached. There's just not enough clearance on the lower A-arm to green cup.

Yeah, when I wrote that, I didn't realize Mark had the whole unit green cup included. I thought they were just the half shafts, and I have only heard from folks that you can do it without removing the knuckle. I always remove the knuckle and replace as much as I can when I am in there.

And Mark, VXorado is right, do the inner seals if you do decide to drop the front axle. This is the only reason I dropped my front axle to begin with, because both seals were leaking.

Oddly enough, I have never had these seals leak on any of my Troopers, but my VX was leaking there pretty good.

Bart

[MSHardeman]

OK, so should I just leave the axle housing in place, with the stock axles installed, and just break down the new SurTrack axles and install the half shafts? It sounds like getting the axle housing back into place with the complete axle assemblies installed is going to be tough if not impossible (without having to replace a bunch of other stuff).

I'm close to a NAPA so I can walk over and get some extra CV grease as well as a Some CV boot clamps and tool.

I originally thought that I would need to replace the whole axle because a couple of years ago my driver side inner boot split and I didn't realize it for a while. The green cup ended up getting pitted and scarred. The shop I took it to removed the axle and sent it to a shop to have the pits welded up and then had the whole green cup re machined to spec. When the CVs started clacking I assumed that it was the green cup repair finally giving up, but when I des assembled the driver side half shaft all kinds of rusty water started leaking out of the outer CV boot so now I am guessing that that joint is the problem. So now maybe just replacing the half shaft is the way to go. Might as well replace the passenger side AND repack the front bearings while I'm at it. I have all of the seals to do the complete axle swap, but that might be more than I want to bite off right now. This IS my daily driver after all.

[nfpgasmask]

Yeah, that's a tough call, Mark. Dropping the axle is a pretty big job, imo.

Bart

[MSHardeman]

Argh. I may have spoken too soon. I cleaned out Vicki's green cup and it does look like there is some wear in it. I took apart an extra complete axle that I have to compare the two. First the spare axle green cup:

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/image93.jpg
As far as I know the CV joint is good. The boot is in tact and it looks original.

Now Vicki's green cup:
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/image92.jpg
If you look closely at the back of the cup you can see some marks on the ridges between the ball races. I don't know if that is enough to make me yank the whole axle though. Tea. Guess the only way to tell would be to leave the green cup, install the new half shaft and see if it clacks or not.

What do y'all think?

Luckily I am off of work this week so if I have to pull the whole axle housing I have the time. I'll just need to get new ball joints and new tie rod ends because they'll all need to come out to get the whole axle assembly out, disassembled, reassembled and reinstalled.

[MSHardeman]

It looks like, according to Tom (tom4bren) and Chris (Marlin) ( http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?threadid=24109 ) you can get the tie rods out of the steering knuckles by either using a pitman arm puller and/or giving the tie rid ends a good whack with a hammer.

I'm guessing that with the tie rods disconnected you could move the knuckles out of he way enough to put one end of the axle assembly up in place, then slide it all the way to that side to give toe enough room to get the other side up and in place. It all seems to make sense laying under the VX looking at it. You might need to disconnect the front drive shaft to allow the axle to move around enough, and you might need to turn the steering to one full lock to get the steering rod out of the way, but just maybe.....

[VXorado]

Well, if you can easily feel the worn "band" than you probably need to drop the diff. When mine were bad, I could feel the area that lost metal with my finger. I would think just a couple millimeters of play could cause the clicking and wear out you new CVs.

+1 for the pitman arm puller. It works really well for the tie rods and ball joints.

[PPinzino]

I have decided to order new shafts for my VX I purchased last week, the TOD system seems to function just fine but if I put it in 4LO they both will clack pretty loud...

[tom4bren]

Mark,

Those 'wear' spots don't look that bad to me. I think I'd just take the risk of putting the new components into the old green cup ... but that's just me.

Now this is from the dregs of my memory so ...

You only need to break your ball joints free if you're pulling the axles out of the diff housing. Also, you may not need to break them all free. There's a coupling that bolts to the frame with 4 bolts that are much easier to remove & will allow enough movement of the center link to allow for the axle housing to be dropped.

In order to remove the axles from the diff housing, you need to unbolt the differential brackets from the frame, then unbolt the brackets from the axle housing. That allows you to remove a clip ring that retains a bearing. Once that is removed, you can slide the axle out.

I also ran into a snag that when I dropped the axle housing, one of the green cups wouldn't clear the Lower Control arm. I ended up just grinding a little off of the LCA to allow clearance.

These 3 files are kinda the gospel for CV's & stuff.

[MSHardeman]

Tom, thanks for the info. I ended up talking to Jon (VXorado) yesterday on the phone and he said pretty much the same thing that you did. The wear marks don't look drastic enough to bother replacing the green cup, which means that I don't need to drop my front axle. I did look up the axle removal on my shop CD, and even though it doesn't look hard to do, it does get to be pretty involved. I thought that I would be able to unbolt the axle mounting brackets and wiggle things around enough to get the axle out (and then back in). Jon let me know that there really isn't enough room to do that and that you have to split the axle on the car (removing the passenger side axle) in order to get it out and that the process must be reversed to get the axle housing back in.

I was starting to get worried that the more I took out, the more chances I would have to mess the seals up. Since I don't have a leak at the axle seal right now, I sure didn't want to create one. I think I'm going to follow both or your advice and break the new SurTrack axles down and just install the half shafts in my existing green cups. If the clacking continues then I know what I need to do.

I do have one split boot on my passenger side lower ball joint so I'll replace that too, but now the job shouldn't take too long to get everything back together.

Thanks all for the information, suggestions and hand holding.:thumbup:

[nfpgasmask]

That's good if you can avoid dropping the axle. It is a pain in my book.

Bart

[MSHardeman]

OK, so I decided to leave the axle housing where it is and just replace the half shafts. Sorry to those who were looking for a complete front axle removal how/to, but the Workshop manual has a pretty good write up on it.

I have broken the SurTrack axles down now and separated the half shaft from the axle. My question now is; is it OK to mix grease? The inner CV joint has grease in it already, but I want to pack my existing green cup with grease to make up for the bit that was lost to the new green cup. Is it OK to just add the synthetic bearing grease that I have to the grease that is already there, or should I clean the new joint out completely and re-pack with one type of grease?

Thanks to all for the help so far. This should be done in the next day, or so, and you won't have to read about it any more.:biggringr

[JAMAS]

This should be done in the next day, or so, and you won't have to read about it any more.:biggringr

Its going to help someone else eventually. Keep on talking about it.:yesy:

[nfpgasmask]

MIxing grease...hmmm. I can't really see a reason why it should matter, but the IsuzuGeek in me would ask the same question.

Bart

[Cobrajet]

My question now is; is it OK to mix grease? The inner CV joint has grease in it already, but I want to pack my existing green cup with grease to make up for the bit that was lost to the new green cup. Is it OK to just add the synthetic bearing grease that I have to the grease that is already there, or should I clean the new joint out completely and re-pack with one type of grease?
Ask anyone who sells grease (like Mobil1 (http://www.mobilindustrial.com/ind/english/files/tt-grease-compatibility.pdf)) and the answer will ALWAYS be "NO!!". Of course, they want to sell you new grease. Will it work? Probably. Will it hurt anything? Maybe...maybe not. I'm just guessing it depends on what the two greases are. Are they the same weight? Type (Dino vs. Synthetic) Color? (Some people don't like their food to touch, so maybe they don't like their grease to touch either.) I guess you'll have to make up your own mind. :)

[MSHardeman]

Don't know what grease came in the SurTrack axles, but it's black whereas the grease I bought is red and I can't find anywhere on the tube where it says if it's dino or synthetic.

Hmmm, what to do?

[nfpgasmask]

You could:

1) disassemble the balls and cage
2) remove the boot
3) thoroughly wipe out the boot and then wash with mild hand soap and let dry
4) thoroughly clean the balls and cage, rinse with brake parts cleaner and let dry
5) reassemble and regrease everything with the same lube

Bart

[tom4bren]

In my book, it's OK to mix the grease ... but ... I'd clean the old out of both CVs just in case there is any contaminates (water or abrasives). If there's any grease left on the new components, I wouldn't worry about it.

I didn't even use the grease that came with the MechaTech's. I just got a tub of synthetic axle grease from the parts store & used that:

a. I didn't know what kind of grease came with the boots & I wanted synthetic.

b. the grease that came with the boots didn't look like nearly enough so I was going to have to add to it anyway.

[MSHardeman]

Decided to take the CV joint apart, clean it and re-grease it after talking to a couple of mechanics and the guys at SurTrack. Those SurTrack joints have some extremely tight tolerances. Had to get a screwdriver behind the balls to pop them out of the outer cage, and after about half an hour of trying to get the outer cage off of the inner cage I just gave up and soaked the whole lot in brake cleaner to get the grease off. I'm going to go out and take the old Isuzu CV apart in a bit to see if the inner and outer cages will release from one another. In both Billy and Bart's write ups it looks like the outer cage will slide past the inner cage enough for you to get a gear puller in there to remove the inner cage from the half shaft, but for the life of me I can't figure out how SurTrack is doing it. I mean, the cages had to go together, somehow, initially so why won't they come apart now?

I think this is finally starting to wind down. I'll clean out both new CV's, pack 'em with grease and then start re-assembling everything.

MAN, this turned into a much longer job then I originally intended. I guess that's half the "fun" though. I sure did learn a lot.

[evillecutter]

i took my axles out to change the cv boots and it was a much smaller job than i anticipated - i used the writeup with pics form a member on here and it made it much clearer - did one side myself but the other side was much easier with a helper

[MSHardeman]

I am finally at the assembly stage. YAY!! This has gone on much longer than I ever anticipated, but that is mostly due to my neuroses about making sure that everything is JUST right.

My current goofy question is: how much grease do I need to pack into the green cup and the CV joint? I've filled the back of the green cup and smeared grease all over the sides of the cup. I have also smeared grease all over the inner and outer cages of the CV joint itself, as well as put some grease in the CV boot. I am guessing that it is probably more than enough, but I REALLY don't want the joint to run dry.

Thanks y'all.

[tom4bren]

I'm guessing that there's really not a right answer to your question.

The Enginerd in me decided that the grease really wouldn't expand during use so I just did like you did: put some in the back of the cup, schlepped some on the bearings & inner race, then pressed it in place. You can hear the air popping out past the grease when you press the guts into place so after I put the retainging spring back in place, I packed some more in there just for good measure. The boot will keep any extra in place & hopefully allow it to flow back into the working area if needed.

No, I did not have any excess grease push out past the boot clamps & no, I can't feel the boot full of grease either. I actually tried to knead some from the boot back into the CV a few months later & couldn't tell that there was any pooled in the boot.

[VehiTONY]

:mado:So all that work yesterday.... 7hrs, and all I got where some new universal CV boots and 2 brand new CV axles in the box THAT ARE TO DAM SHORT!!!! I will never be going to Advance again!!!:mado:

[rowhard]

My current goofy question is: how much grease do I need to pack into the green cup and the CV joint?

found it. page 4C-14 of the shop manual, 'use 150g in both ends' divide by 28.5 for oz,... my youth coming out again:flame:

[MSHardeman]

Thanks Rowhard. I knew that I had seen that somewhere in the workshop manual. I just couldn't find it again.

[rowhard]

Thanks Rowhard. I knew that I had seen that somewhere in the workshop manual. I just couldn't find it again.

yea, just went through the CV boot madness, only reason I remembered it

[tom4bren]

:mado:So all that work yesterday.... 7hrs, and all I got where some new universal CV boots and 2 brand new CV axles in the box THAT ARE TO DAM SHORT!!!! I will never be going to Advance again!!!:mado:

I seem to remember that someone indicated in the past that the ones from Advanced are different in other regards too (different number of bearings & different size).

[evillecutter]

:mado:So all that work yesterday.... 7hrs, and all I got where some new universal CV boots and 2 brand new CV axles in the box THAT ARE TO DAM SHORT!!!! I will never be going to Advance again!!!:mado:

part #'s part #'s part #'s - if you dont have the exact part # you need then auto parts stores are completely worthless when searching for "vehicross" parts in their computers - in over two years nothing i have found was listed for this vehicle correctly

the axles should be simple however since i think it was the member on here that found replacements that fit correctly for both sides

[JAMAS]

:mado:So all that work yesterday.... 7hrs, and all I got where some new universal CV boots and 2 brand new CV axles in the box THAT ARE TO DAM SHORT!!!! I will never be going to Advance again!!!:mado:

My recommendation......Get the NAPA ones. They are much better quality.

Technically, we can use the same boot for inner and outer, but they list 2 part numbers. When comparing the looks of the two, you will find that the inners and outers do a have a slight appearance difference that NAPA matches. its like the spacing between the boot joint things.

[tom4bren]

Technically, we can use the same boot for inner and outer, but they list 2 part numbers. When comparing the looks of the two, you will find that the inners and outers do a have a slight appearance difference that NAPA matches. its like the spacing between the boot joint things.

YUP!!!

:thumbup:

[MSHardeman]

Well, finally got the axle swap/ bearing repack done late last night. Haven't driven it yet because I couldn't get the zip ties tight enough to keep the inner boot from slipping off (probably because I had grease everywhere) so I'm taking it to a trusted shop to have them install some real band clamps. Also going to have them replace the passenger side lower ball joint as the boot on that is split. I tried to do the swap, but that sucker just did NOT want to release no matter how much I cranked down on my cheap puller and banged on the nut/bolt.

Thanks to everyone for answering all of my questions and holding my hand through all of this.

[JAMAS]

Well, finally got the axle swap/ bearing repack done late last night. Haven't driven it yet because I couldn't get the zip ties tight enough to keep the inner boot from slipping off (probably because I had grease everywhere) so I'm taking it to a trusted shop to have them install some real band clamps. Also going to have them replace the passenger side lower ball joint as the boot on that is split. I tried to do the swap, but that sucker just did NOT want to release no matter how much I cranked down on my cheap puller and banged on the nut/bolt.

Thanks to everyone for answering all of my questions and holding my hand through all of this.


I found that I needed to use vise grips to help with tightening the zip ties.

They dont seem to care how greasy my zip ties were.

also, cut the larger HD zip ties flush. There is minimal clearance around the inner most side of the inner boot.

[MSHardeman]

Jamas, I did use pliers to pull HARD on the zip tie, and used a screwdriver (along with some choice language) to try and push the little locking mechanism up a notch or two to get it tighter. There was no grease on the zip tie, but there was grease on the boot and the green cup so the boot seemed to slide right off of the cup no matter how tight I got the zip tie even with the lip of the boot in the groove on the green cup. :_confused

[tom4bren]

I actually had better luck with standard zip ties than I did with HD. The HD were just too wide. The standard ones fit the grooves much better.

[MSHardeman]

Well here's something to be aware of: I needed to replace my passenger side lower ball joint due to a tear in the boot. I could NOT get the ball joint to release from the knuckle so I took it to a shop to have them replace the joint while they were installing some real band clamps on the CV boots. I just heard back from the site and they said that in order to do the ball joint swap the book/program that they have states that you need to release the torsion bar to take the pressure off of the A-arms so that you can remove the ball joint. I told them that I had removed the plate that the ball joint is on by just jacking up the lower A-arm to take the pressure off of the joint.

"Oh" was the answer that I got. I know that they are just doing things by the book, and I trust this shop as they are the ones who did the engine swap for me and have always been straight up with me. They are an independent shop, but are run by a VW master mechanic who worked for a couple of the VW dealerships in the area. I'm guessing that he is still doing things by the book which is why his guys aren't thinking outside the box and just jacking up the lower A-arm instead of disconnecting the torsion bar.

Just a heads up to anyone who might have a shop replace their lower ball joints for them. The book/program states that the ball joint swap is .8 hours, but you have to release the torsion bar to do the swap (according to the book) so that adds another .7 hours to the job.

[Vinnybin]

can someone answer a quick question on this topic? Both suretracks on amazon. If I have popping in my left front, this means I need the full assembly including the cup, correct? The longer of the two is driver?

[PK]

Well here's something to be aware of: I needed to replace my passenger side lower ball joint due to a tear in the boot. I could NOT get the ball joint to release from the knuckle so I took it to a shop to have them replace the joint while they were installing some real band clamps on the CV boots. I just heard back from the site and they said that in order to do the ball joint swap the book/program that they have states that you need to release the torsion bar to take the pressure off of the A-arms so that you can remove the ball joint. I told them that I had removed the plate that the ball joint is on by just jacking up the lower A-arm to take the pressure off of the joint.

"Oh" was the answer that I got. I know that they are just doing things by the book, and I trust this shop as they are the ones who did the engine swap for me and have always been straight up with me. They are an independent shop, but are run by a VW master mechanic who worked for a couple of the VW dealerships in the area. I'm guessing that he is still doing things by the book which is why his guys aren't thinking outside the box and just jacking up the lower A-arm instead of disconnecting the torsion bar.

Just a heads up to anyone who might have a shop replace their lower ball joints for them. The book/program states that the ball joint swap is .8 hours, but you have to release the torsion bar to do the swap (according to the book) so that adds another .7 hours to the job.

This is probably due to the fact that in a workshop situation, they would most likely be doing this type of work with the vehicle on a hoist and lifted to a comfortable working height. More difficult and a bit dangerous to try and jack up the lower control arm in this instance.
At home with the vehicle on jack stands the obvious method is jacking the LCA.

PK

[MSHardeman]

PK, that's kind of the same thing that I was thinking. It was just fun to tell them that I had done the same thing without having to remove the torsion bar.

Vinnybin, you will probably be fine just buying the "half shafts". The cheapest place that I have found them is Dave's Discount Autoparts:

http://www.davesdiscountautoparts.com/catalog-1/search/iz-8021

Usually the outer CV joint is the one that goes and starts clicking and clacking. This joint takes up and down movement as well as turning movement so it gets pretty hammered. I thought that I was going to have to replace the whole axle from the third member out to the wheel, but once I took my driver side half shaft out I saw that water had gotten into the outer joint somehow and that was the joint that was clacking for me. Unless your inner CV boots are split, and have been for a while, they should be fine.

Billy's write-up (referenced in this thread) is perfect and if you follow it you should have no problem replacing your half shafts.

Hope that helps.

[MSHardeman]

This was the most convenient place I could think of to post this question; does anyone know how to get the outer CV joint apart, or can it be done at all?

I'm trying to rebuild my stock half shafts and the outer CV joint had some water get into it and bugger it up. I don't see the "snap ring" that the inner joint has that would allow the cage and balls to slide out of the cup (outer race) like the inner joint.

[nfpgasmask]

Mark, I do not think there is a way to get it all apart. I think they are pressed together somehow. I tried to take mine apart to clean thoroughly and I could not figure it out either, so I just cleaned them as best I could assembled, and then blew out all the old grease and solvent with air. Then I just regreased them up.

Bart

[MSHardeman]

Thanks Bart. After cleaning the joint out and having a good look at I thought the same thing. Looks like it's pressed together somehow because I couldn't find any way to take it apart. With all the water that was in the joint I think it's shot now. With all of the grease out the joint is still sticky and doesn't move as well as it should.

[nfpgasmask]

Do you actually see any rust in there?

Bart

[MSHardeman]

Don't see any rust, but the balls look stained (for lack of a better term). I'll see if I can get some pictures of it and post them up. The biggest thing is that the joint doesn't move freely. It seems to catch in a couple of spots unlike some of the other spares that I have lying around. Maybe I'll give it an overnight soak in brake cleaner and see if that will free the joint up any.

[nfpgasmask]

I know what you mean, there's kind of some "sticky" spots if you will. I think that is quite normal. I would soak it, blast it out with compressed air, and then regrease it up and see how it feels with fresh grease. No need to throw it away, you never know if you will need it.

Bart

[rowhard]

It seems to catch in a couple of spots

If you have a piece of cheese cloth, rub it around and see if it snags on anything. If so, some emery cloth will fix it up. Cheese cloth is better then your finger, CC doesn't bleed:bgwb:

[MSHardeman]

Mine actually locks up in certain positions so there may still be some crud in the joint that I need to get out. I'll definitely keep it no matter what because the inner joint is completely fine so if it comes down to it I can at least use the parts of the inner joint to rebuild another joint if it ever comes to that. Heck, even rolling on a clacking CV would be fine as a last resort if anything catastrophic happened out in the hinterlands.

Cheese cloth is a great idea Rowhard, but with the joint completely assembled (and no way to take it apart) it would be tough to get the cheese cloth in there to check for rough spots. I may give it a try anyway.

[rowhard]

for sure works best when disassembled