Prospective VX Buyer

[8695Beaters]

Hi all,

I am looking to buy my first Vehicross and will actually be going to see one in just over 24 hours. It looks to be in great shape. It is a 2001 Ironman Edition in white and only has 78,000 miles on the clock. The leather needs some love as do the plastic panels, but otherwise it seems to be in good shape. The owner claims it was used as a survey and estimate vehicle for his contracting business. It also has a roof rack and safari bar fitted.

I've been looking at these on and off for about 6 months or so. I haven't driven one yet because I haven't found any within my budget that are close enough (and the last closest was 150 miles away and had leaking brakes. Big fat pile of NOPE!). Anyway, my question is: what are the trouble spots I should look out for? My big worry is the TOD. It seems a lot of the drivetrain is bulletproof and since it's shared with the Trooper, parts are well sourced. The TOD seems pretty simple (compared to some 4WD systems today), but electronic gremlins are the pits. Are there any other trouble spots? Anywhere they begin to rust? I read that the VX's body panels were zinc coated from the factory, but just like Jurassic Park dinosaurs, rust finds a way...

I first saw the VX in Test Drive Off-Road 3 and I've been dying for one ever since. I'm REALLY hoping this truck turns out to be The One so I can replace my trusty, but aging CR-V. Thanks for the help!

P.S. for you Roadkill fans, I'll be meeting at Holley in Bowling Green. I'll see if I can find the Roadkill Corvette. Rumor has it, it's still parked out back.

[Vendetta]

Hey, welcome aboard!

15 chronological years and countless more in terms of owner experience here on the forums would be tough to distill into a single reply. Start with this questionnaire (http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=19855), as it illuminates many common trouble spots.

But search and read and brace for an addiction and ownership experience as unique as the VX itself.

Good luck, hope you find your VX soon.
-V

[bartmanS4]

This is like "Hey, I'm thinking about trying heroin. What do you think?"

Don't do it man! All your spare time will be gone, spent on daydreaming about mods, walks back and forth from couch to garage for a quick view/fix, and time lapses spent viewing and posting to this forum. You will develop a chronic sore neck from taking furtive glances back at your ride when walking away in a parking lot, seeking glimpses in window reflections as you drive by, and double checking that nearby drivers and pedestrians have had an opportunity to see your VX and reveling in their appreciation and or confusion.

Get yourself a Prius and call it a day.

[bartmanS4]

Oh, and on a serious note the TOD is pretty bulletproof. There have been some failures here and there but more common issues are oil consumption, ABS failure, and CV boots/joint problems.

[tom4bren]

1. Get on your hands & knees in front of the VX & check to make sure the CV boots are not torn. If it hasn't been lifted, I'm pretty sure they'll be fine.

2. Check the hood insert for cracks. That can be fixed but it's almost impossible to replace nowadays.

3. Check tire wear. Because of the TOD, all 4 tires must match and have even wear.

4. Crank up the stereo. The VX didn't come with the best of speakers & they may have blown.

5. Lower & raise the windows. Our windows like to jump the track. There are fixes that'll help.

6. Feel the carpet on the front passenger side. Quite a few of us have a windshield leak that lets water in. Again, it's an easy fix but can be an indication of a poorly maintained vehicle.

7. ABS light on? Our ABS is a POS. When mine went, I just removed the bulb.

8. Are all of the cup holders present? Just kidding (inside joke) ... we ain't got none.

You didn't mention your mechanical inclination. Will the small stuff scare you away or are you willing to get your hands dirty & make that VX your own. That makes a big difference as to whether any of this stuff is a show stopper.

Best of luck with the purchase.

[Vendetta]

You're so much better than me, Tom. Ordinarily, it would be inspriational to me... But I'm just so swamped that it's exasperating and wee bit depressing.

Hat tip,
-V

[JoFotoz]

9. Check tubular metal 'bumper bar' behind front cladding...
.... its notoriously prone to rust away.


10. Check roof along the edge of rails for paint bubble / rust .

And as mentioned...be prepared for addiction!


:_beer:

Jo

[8695Beaters]

Hey, welcome aboard!

15 chronological years and countless more in terms of owner experience here on the forums would be tough to distill into a single reply. Start with this questionnaire (http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=19855), as it illuminates many common trouble spots.

But search and read and brace for an addiction and ownership experience as unique as the VX itself.

Good luck, hope you find your VX soon.
-V

Thanks! That gives me a lot of things to look at when I travel to see this beast. Glad to know these are timing belt motors. My guess is this one will need the belt replaced soon. Owner has only had it a few years and did not mention the t-belt. That's definitely not something I want to leave to chance...

Reading through that list, most of that stuff is standard used car poking and prodding and tire kicking. I've yet to own a new car and I've looked at a ton of used cars before. I was looking more for specific VX problems. For example, a few threads have mentioned that the front bumper reinforcement tube can rust and fall apart. Anything else like that? Any common issues with the TOD? Or the transfer case?


This is like "Hey, I'm thinking about trying heroin. What do you think?"

Don't do it man! All your spare time will be gone, spent on daydreaming about mods, walks back and forth from couch to garage for a quick view/fix, and time lapses spent viewing and posting to this forum. You will develop a chronic sore neck from taking furtive glances back at your ride when walking away in a parking lot, seeking glimpses in window reflections as you drive by, and double checking that nearby drivers and pedestrians have had an opportunity to see your VX and reveling in their appreciation and or confusion.

Get yourself a Prius and call it a day.

Cry-asses can't tow trailers :p And as for the whole neck snapping thing...well this is what I built in my spare time in college: https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/t31.0-8/10431362_737319662984910_1793616980567438397_o.jpg I think my neck is well prepared! I also have a 240SX, which I plan to tow with this once I get a garage in KY.

[8695Beaters]

^^^This is why it pays to hit refresh in between the time you read a post and the time you to reply to it.

Perfect, thanks for the tips all! I will update when I go and see it tomorrow. Potentially with title in hand :D As I said, I've wanted a VX for a long time and as long as there aren't any major scares, I'm planning to make this my new DD.

Two more questions: 1) how bad is the timing belt service on these motors? Judging by the mileage it looks like I'll have to do a belt pretty soon. 2) I read the 3.5 and 3.2 motors in Isuzus were GM based. Is that true? If so, what motor are they based off of? Doesn't look like the old Vortec dinosaurs (I've been looking under the hood of S-10s as well lately).

[tom4bren]

The shop manual indicates that timing belt should be done at 90K so yours isn't past due ... yet.

There's a How2 on TB replacement. You can do it yourself over a long weekend. There's one special tool needed but you can make your own (I did).

[bartmanS4]

And our engines are non-interference

[8695Beaters]

And our engines are non-interference

Kick ***!

[VX KAT]

Thanks! That gives me a lot of things to look at when I travel to see this beast. Glad to know these are timing belt motors. My guess is this one will need the belt replaced soon. Owner has only had it a few years and did not mention the t-belt. That's definitely not something I want to leave to chance...

Reading through that list, most of that stuff is standard used car poking and prodding and tire kicking. I've yet to own a new car and I've looked at a ton of used cars before. I was looking more for specific VX problems. For example, a few threads have mentioned that the front bumper reinforcement tube can rust and fall apart. Anything else like that? Any common issues with the TOD? Or the transfer case?



"...looking for specific VX problems" ... did you read thru the entire questionnaire? A very high percentage of that first version of the questionnaire WAS VX SPECIFIC, but you may not have realized it as they may have seemed general, but they're not.

OK, time to get out the big guns....here's the EXPANDED DETAILED VERSION OF THE QUESTIONNAIRE: Many of these are even more VX specific....
http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showpost.php?p=252124&postcount=24

Based on your questions, I'd suggest you use the SEARCH function a bit more, as the VX is 15 years old now, darn near every possible topic you can think of has been asked and answered, usually in pretty great detail, on this amazing forum. It's an amazing source of information and reference and it's a fantastic group of owners, like no other generally found on the web.

Oh and BTW, you'll find the owner's manual recommends the timing belt be changed at 100k under "normal" use, and 75k under heavy or extreme use. My fellow nutbrother Tom (Tom4Bren) must have a manual I don't have :goof:

AND, as Scott (bartmanS4) said, it's definitely a non-interference engine, DESPITE MANY references you may find to the contrary in publications....and you find this confirmed if you search the topic.

Hope you find just the right one soon, you'll love it! :thumbup:

[8695Beaters]

***UPDATES*** I drove 150 miles to test drive this particular VX. Basic impressions: the exterior is very rough. Clear coat peeling on the hood, all plastic faded, couple of nicks are showing surface rust, headlights are cloudy, and the passenger door plastic is missing a screw (current owner said he replaced it when he bought it and broke a screw removing the old). Roof rack is a factory Yakima rack with Vehicross logos. Before it was in Kentucky, this was an Ohio truck. The chassis is surprisingly clean. No surface rust and very solid. Exhaust was loud, but intact and the rear end showed no signs of off-roading. In fact we took it on a bit of rough grassy hill and the owner claimed it was the first time he'd ever been off-road in it (low range worked perfectly and we climbed a 30* slope easily on bald, dry rotting Nexens. Impressive!!!). The leather has seen better days. The seats are all cracked, though they haven't split yet. The center console was ripping where the driver's elbow rests. And the Ohio owner apparently added some ricey shift knob that comes off in your hand. Ugh. None of this stuff really scares me. A long weekend with some cleaners and a few beers will take care of all of that stuff. Tires obviously aren't cheap, but that just gives me an excuse to pick exactly what I want (I spent a semester in college learning about tire construction and two different summers selling and installing tires. I'm slightly picky when it comes to my car's rubber lol). It had also been sitting so the battery was dead. It was holding charge after the test drive, but I will likely replace it if I buy it (Optima!!!).

The reason I didn't say yes right away was because there were a few other things that worry me and I want to get some opinions.

1) The ABS light and TOD CHECK light were on when I got in. We ended up replacing the ABS fuse and the TOD light went off and I noticed the front wheel indicators began changing (instead of showing full RWD). I understand the TOD and ABS share sensors, so fixing the burned out fuse would explain why the TOD came back. But there's still no ABS (or at least the ABS light was still on. I did not get the ABS to engage nor did I lock the tires. Just wasn't slick enough). I'm hoping it's just a sensor, but after doing a forum search it seems the ABS modules can go on these too. What are the chances it's the ABS module and not just a sensor? Or with the fuse back in place, does the ECU need to be scanned and reset to get rid of a fault code?

2) We heard some really strange noises coming from the transfer case. There was some clunking and whirring. Once when we were exiting an off-camber driveway (owner said it was the TOD doing its job, but we hadn't swapped the fuse yet, so I don't think it was working). Is this normal or a sign that the case has some unresolved issues? Maybe just needs a fluid flush?

3) The windows stick as they close. I searched the forum and saw a lot of solutions, but no cause of the problem. Why do the windows cock sideways in their tracks? I saw one solution that used a lubricant. Am I going to have to disassemble the doors? I live in an apartment complex and don't really have a good place to disassemble a car. I could feasibly tear down the door, I would just rather not if I don't have to. I have to scan my ID badge to get into my work's campus, so functioning windows is a pretty high priority.

4) The steering had a good amount of on-center play. According to the forum, tightening the lash in the steering box will solve this. I am hoping it's just the backlash needing some tightening, but with this amount of mileage, I'd hazard a guess that the linkage needs some work too. What type of steering linkage is it? If the rack is a recirculating ball, I'm guessing the linkage is a pitman arm and a long tierod? Which of those usually goes first? All my cars so far have used rack and pinions so it's been easy diagnosing steering issues.

5) How long do the transmissions last in these? This truck has 138,000 miles (not 78,000). My CR-V had a trans rebuild at 120,000. Honda's autos are awful, so this isn't surprising. But autos have inherent wear parts and need occasional rebuilds. However I simply can't afford to have the transmission go out on me. Both in terms of time and money, a blown transmission would shaft me badly. How long does the Trooper/VX transmission usually go before it needs a teardown? The transmission stuck in gear once while coming up to a light, so I'm a bit worried it may need a major service soon...

I feel like some of these issues could be resolved with a full service and flush of all the fluids. The oil were recently changed. This particular VX is a great base (especially at the price range it's in, which I'll reveal once I've made my decision) and if it was going to be a pure project, I'd have no trouble buying it. But since this will be my daily driver, I need to be sure I don't have any potential landmines . What are your all's thoughts on some of these problems?

And if it turns out this VX is too much of a basket case, I will keep looking because after driving one, I am HOOKED. Definitely lives up to the hype. Thanks for reading this exceedingly long post and thanks for the help. Again.

[Mile High VX]

1) The ABS light and TOD CHECK light were on when I got in. We ended up replacing the ABS fuse and the TOD light went off and I noticed the front wheel indicators began changing (instead of showing full RWD). I understand the TOD and ABS share sensors, so fixing the burned out fuse would explain why the TOD came back. But there's still no ABS (or at least the ABS light was still on. I did not get the ABS to engage nor did I lock the tires. Just wasn't slick enough). I'm hoping it's just a sensor, but after doing a forum search it seems the ABS modules can go on these too. What are the chances it's the ABS module and not just a sensor? Or with the fuse back in place, does the ECU need to be scanned and reset to get rid of a fault code?


My ABS light was due to the module going out. I had it rebuilt for about $100 which is less than any of the sensors will cost you if you have to buy them new. They are available from salvage yards from other Isuzus with ABS. You can find the information on the rebuild here on the forum. The shop I used is in TN and I just removed the electrical part, sent it off, put it back when the repaired part was returned. Vehicle can be driven with the electrical part removed and no need to flush the brakes once it's put back in.

Many of the members here have had that issue as it is a common problem. Some fix it, and some don't. Just depends on your preference for ABS or not.

[RedProwler99]

And our engines are non-interference

What do you mean by "Non-interference"? I have not heard that term in reference to engines before.
In looking for a VX to buy, which engine, the 3.2L or 3.5L, is the one to look for? Are they optional for certain years, or year specific?:happyface

[VX KAT]

What do you mean by "Non-interference"? I have not heard that term in reference to engines before.
In looking for a VX to buy, which engine, the 3.2L or 3.5L, is the one to look for? Are they optional for certain years, or year specific?:happyface

Non-interference means if the timing belt inside the engine blows, it won't cause extensive damage to the engine, like most other engines.

THe 3.5L was the only engine put in the US spec version. 3.2 was only one in JDM models. I believe the 3.2 is in the US spec Rodeo however...Gizmo Dave am I right on that?

EDIT:
Read this post:
http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showpost.php?p=259555&postcount=8

[RedProwler99]

Thank you for the info. I have a lot to learn, so forgive the questions! Just to clarify, what is "JDM"? Japanese models?

[VX KAT]

Thank you for the info. I have a lot to learn, so forgive the questions! Just to clarify, what is "JDM"? Japanese models?

yes..."Japanese Domestic Market"....but they're also the ones that went to the UK and other non-US destinations.

[RedProwler99]

After reading some threads here, I would be inclined to buy a stock VX...and keep it that way for the sake of simple maintenance. However, it sounds as though there may be some issues with stock parts availability and/or cost to do this. I suppose the most conservative approach here would be to pay a premium for the lowest mileage vehicle possible, with the fewest mods possible. Do you see any problems with this approach?

Comment: the maintenance problem not a unique issue with the VehiCROSS - so forgive me if I seem critical.

[VXorado]

After reading some threads here, I would be inclined to buy a stock VX...and keep it that way for the sake of simple maintenance. However, it sounds as though there may be some issues with stock parts availability and/or cost to do this. I suppose the most conservative approach here would be to pay a premium for the lowest mileage vehicle possible, with the fewest mods possible. Do you see any problems with this approach?

Comment: the maintenance problem not a unique issue with the VehiCROSS - so forgive me if I seem critical.

Just find a nice clean body/interior. Almost everything else can be obtained easily because the VX shares parts with the Trooper. I'm not sure what you mean by avoiding "mods," as most modded VXes are easily reversible if you don't like the look or function of it. I would be more concerned with body damage or frame rust than any mods. In my experience looking at used Vehicross'; the more mods, the more love & maintenance. Many of the stockers you find out there are abused and ignored... and you'll see it right away with worn seats, faded cladding and foggy headlights.

I would always lean toward finding the lowest mileage and cleanest VX you can find that fits your budget. At this point, any Vehicross you find is pushing 15 years old.

[circmand]

. In my experience looking at used Vehicross'; the more mods, the more love & maintenance. Many of the stockers you find out there are abused and ignored... and you'll see it right away with worn seats, faded cladding and foggy headlights.

I would always lean toward finding the lowest mileage and cleanest VX you can find that fits your budget. At this point, any Vehicross you find is pushing 15 years old.

As an original owner I take exception to that remark. But I do agree avoiding rust abuse is paramount. Though the VX shares many parts with Trooper it is the body parts that have limited availability.

[8695Beaters]

In my experience of buying used cars it's not "stock" or "modded" it's "does the owner keep records?" I'd be far more wary of modded cars. Just because someone took the time and effort to personalize their car doesn't mean they did it right! But if you have records, receipts, and service histories, you know the owner has taken good care of their car and you know EXACTLY when service items were done.

Case in point, I did end up buying the VX I kicked this thread off with. It had 140,000 miles on it and the diff and transfer case fluids had NEVER been changed. The diff oil was like river water. Very, very thin, and very, very dirty. I flushed both diffs and the transfer case (twice with the t-case) and most of my drivetrain noises disappeared. I also swapped the spark plugs, which were so old they had actually rusted to the cylinder head. I'm pretty sure they were also original. I got immediate improvements in gas mileage and acceleration.

Point is, stock or modded, if the old owner(s) is lazy, cheap, or incompetent, you're going to have problems no matter what used car you're shopping for.