DOH! I think I threw a ROD or something!

[coachreed]

I was on my way to work this morning... listening to the radio and notice I was losing power... truned the radio down to hear the sound of metallic rattling... think I threw a rod... DAMN! I'll report back later when I hear what the dealer said... anyone else here EVER have to get a new motor? I have 73,000 miles... oil level last week was fine... now it is dry... no leaks in my driveway in 8 months... I added three quarts of oil and drove the rest way to work (a few miles)... whatayathink?!

TTYL!

[VX_PA]

I just replaced my engine in November. I had 62,000 miles and it went. Cost to replace the motor is $5,000. It took about 1 week for the engine to come in and a couple of days to install. Talk your dealer into giving you a loaner at no expense, that's the least they can do since the motor is flawed from Isuzu. They know it but never did anything about it.

If you are the first owner, the 2000 model you have is still under powertrain warranty. If you are the second owner, you will have to foot the bill on your own because Isuzu won't pay.

[Anita]

Ask your dealer whether the EGR valve failed... Isuzu put out a bulletin about it....

[Dallas4u]

Originally posted by coachreed
anyone else here EVER have to get a new motor? I have 73,000 miles...

C'mon Coach! You've been around long enough to hear the stories! There have been a few people here (and the old board) that have had motor troubles. Honestly, as I get closer and closer to the 60k mile mark, it scares the hell out of me!

I've had my EGR pipe (leading to the EGR valve) come loose a few times, before it was relocated due to the SC install. I didn't seem to lose power from it, but it did make an awful noise. It is something to check, but definitely take it to a dealer to diagnose.

[StormTROOPER]

This is the first time I heard about this.:sighb: Excuse me while I go...;puke:

[AREA 51]

Dallas,

He said he has no oil on the stick. Not good! Find out if rod #1 failed, that's the usual one.

[autox-racer]

Sorry to hear your engine died. Has me worried as i approach the 50k mark.

Does anyone know if they fixed the oil problem in the replacement engine? has anyone used the accusump on a VX? http://www.accusump.com/ i have heard of them for years in the racing world but i wondered if it would help protect our engines? Below is how it unit works... do you guys think this would help our problem? Does anyone have a manual oil gauge and has noticed the oil pressure drop?

"While driving, if the engine's oil pressure is interrupted for any reason, the Accusump releases its oil reserve again, keeping the engine lubricated until the engine's oil pressure comes back to normal.

This release of oil could last from 15 to 60 seconds, depending on the size and speed of the engine. "

What exactly is an EGR failure? does the egr leak to atmosphere or to the intake that causes the lose of power?

[Dallas4u]

Originally posted by autox-racer
What exactly is an EGR failure? does the egr leak to atmosphere or to the intake that causes the lose of power?

Actually, from what I have heard from a couple dealers, the nut that attaches the EGR pipe to the bottom of the EGR base coming loose is somewhat common among the VX. The nut loosens over time and either sits there or slides down the pipe a little bit, severing the connection between the EGR valve and the pipe. The leak is loud when accelerating, but I didn't notice much, if any, power failure.

I have, myself, had the nut loosen a couple times. I'm not saying that this is the problem Coach is having... in fact, he should have his engine looked at ASAP to diagnose the problem!

[VX_PA]

A couple of weeks prior to my motor fubaring the oil light would flicker. I didn't think anything was wrong because when I checked my oil level it was full. I thought it was just a computer glitch, now that the motor has been replaced I check my oil every week and keep an eye out for the flickering oil light. If it flickers, drive to your dealer ASAP. That's the only thing I know to do. The dealership told me that the main bearings were the cause of my engine failure. They said they were faulty from Isuzu, but after I called Isuzu direct on their customer service toll free number, they said that since my VX was out of powertrain warranty they wouldn't cover the engine. I even talked to my Isuzu Regional Rep and he said that even if I were 1 day or 1 mile out of warranty they wouldn't cover it. I love my VX, but I have a lot of issues with Isuzu. I won't buy anything else Isuzu. Next summer I'm buying a new vehicle, don't know what yet but it won't be from Isuzu. I'll keep my VX and it will become the beater (understand it will still be taken care of, just used alot harder).

[autox-racer]

well i think it is time to buy a mechanical oil gauge. My race car has one and you know right away when the pressure drops. My car loose oil pressure in certain kind of turns... so i avoid them :)

So i will get one and watch the VX pressure to see if anything funny is happening. And if so then maybe i will invest in an accusump. Or pull the pan to see how the bearings look. I would rather invest 5K in a supercharger than into an engine.

[drdavidr4u]

How many engine failures have been due to a faulty EGR valve or nut?

[Dallas4u]

None that I know of... I don't think it could be possible, unless it stays that way for a long time.

[Anita]

Not according to my Isuzu guys... As I have posted on another thread, my mechanics have been closely checking EGR valves as cause for burning oil and piston failure. Forgive me that I dont have complete info about this. I'll try to get a more detailed explanation.

[Dallas4u]

Interesting Anita! I will be awaiting your findings.

In the mean time, I may just take the valve off and clean it thoroughly!!

[Anita]

Forgive me for always mentioning my Isuzu guys.. I always feel insecure explaining anything mechanical as it relates to VX issues since I do but the simplest of maintenance on my VX. I feel really ill-equipped to say much in detail. :sighg:

I'll find out what I can.

[Hotsauce]

I suggest that anyone nearing the end of powertrain warranty pull the pan, and pop in a set of rod bearings as maintenence. Material cost is minimal, and not really much labor.

90% of the work is getting the pan off.

John C.

[autox-racer]

without looking under the VX what does it take to remove the pan?

Can it be pulled w/o removing engine mounts and jacking up the engine?

Is there a removeable cross member like on toyotas? I have replaced bearings on toyota trucks and it is not a bad job just because the removeable crossmember makes life so much easier.

[coachreed]

Thanks for the replies and info guys... and gal... after I posted this morning, I contacted my dealer and got my warranty information. I had purchased an extended warranty that the dealer claims is great... at least they did when I bought it. Anyway, my extended warranty covers all drivetrain and then some with a $50 deductible. I will go into the dealer tomorrow with comfidence that there is a history of trouble with these motors... however, I'd like more info if I can find it. I hear comments about EGR problems and sounds like oil pump and/or rod bearing problems as well. So is this the deal? The EGR valve malfuctions causing an excessive amount of oil usage, leading to a low oil pressure problem, leading to a main or rod bearing failure?

Once I thought about things this moring, I was thinking that I might have spun a rod bearing, and hince the reason I have what sounds like a rod knocking. It has been over 15 years since I last had a motor problem... but that car, I could pull the motor and rebuild myself... this one... well, I could probably do it, but it wouldn't be quite so easy as it has LOTS more junk to go wrong with it.

Anyway, the VX got towed there first thing this AM... at leat first thing AFTER I posted this. I got a call back today around 5:15 but I was at a customers home and couldn't answer the phone. I expect them to have some kind of answer in the AM... so I'll let you know what I find. Thanks again everyone!

TTYL!

[coachreed]

Got a call from the dealer today... the service writer said that the oil was dry AGAIN! I lost three quarts of oil in a few miles? How could this be possible? He said that if he had to guess, the adjuster at the warranty company WILL NOT cover the repair! This isn't going well. I have never had a problem in the past and have ALWAYS been religious about oil changes and maintanence. HELP!

TTYL!

Coach

[autox-racer]

Can you get it out of that dealer before he submits a claim? ... take it home and add some used oil? i know this sounds like fraud but i feel like the fraud was perpetrated by isuzu since this is a know issue.

it really sucks to spend a lot of money on a awesome vehicle and have issues like this.

i do not endorse or condone my statements .. BAD ME :)

[VX_PA]

This is awful, the engines last long enough to make it past the end of the warranty and then they go bad. It's like we're lambs being led to slaughter ($5000 feels like slaughter to me!). I wish I did have a number of how many owners this has happened to but I don't. From what I hear the number isn't really low considering that there aren't many VX's made in the first place. If we could get an exact number made and an exact number that had engine failures we'd all probably freek when we came up with a percentage.

[Anita]

I need a little education here since I really know so little about this subject. I dont understand ... quarts of oil gone in a few miles? Doesnt that oil have to go somewhere if not on the ground or in billows of black smoke from the exhaust? If the oil pump is bad wouldnt the oil still be in its reservoir? And if oil isnt pumping throught the engine, wont it over heat and show up on the temp dial? :confused:

[AREA 51]

Do you have receipts from oil changes, with mileage notations? I know that Isuzu has a monitoring program for complaints of excessive oil consumption. If any of you are experiencing this problem, I believe they take 4 readings during a 1 month period to assess the problem and make a determination. Might make for good ammo if you use a lot of oil and have a subsequent failure.

Anita, any more info on the EGR related engine failure problems isuzu is supposed to be tracking?

[VX_PA]

I didn't have an oil loss problem. I just noticed the oil light flickering, it may not have anything to do with my engine failure. My dealer said that faulty bearings were the cause of mine. Hopefully I wasn't being lied to by my dealer, wouldn't make me happy if they did.

[Anita]

Okay this EGR thing..

I hope I can explain this half as well as I was just told. When the fuel vapors pass through the EGR tube, vapors go from hot to cold which creates carbons that clog up the tube.

When this happens, the temp of the cylinder walls rise and oil starts getting sucked up and burned out leading to cylinder failure.

My guys say that they are seeing carbon build up and the potential for serious problems with engines 45k to 60K miles. So the tube needs to be regularly cleaned.......

:sighg: :sighg:

[VX4EJR]

I hate to sound kind of silly but I couldn't find a picture or something else in any other posts......exactly where is this EGR thing?

[crager34]

Just when I am about ready to pick up a 2000 VX with close to 52,000 miles, then drive it from Kansas to California. :thumbdn:
I read this.

[Anita]

There are MANY VX's out there with more that 45K miles that have no problems whatsoever and a few with over 100K that are trouble free who have not had this information at hand.

What it means is that you put an EGR cleaning on the calendar along with all regular maintenance to protect your investment.

Knowledge is power and this forum equips us with both.

[Andrey]

honestly, I feel weired about engine problem. How come in all flyers and ads Isuzu claimed our engines are the best, our engine blah-blah-blah

1916 - First Jap Truck
1930 - 6 wheel drive truck
1956 - Jap South Pole expedition Powered by Isuzu
1984 - Trooper introduced, soon to be Americas Best Selling Truck

Comon, Isuzu shame on you ! VX is a great product and failing engine is no excuse ! I was sold on the idea or reliability and such ! I was driving Chrysler LHS which failed impressively on me. Car had 64K and every week it cost me about $800 in repairs - so I went and bought Jap car from "trusted" and well known manufacturer. So now people have engines failing on them and Isuzu says "not our problem !" Isuzu, with such attitude towards your customers you are a doomed company. This is PATHETIC !

[Dallas4u]

I'm sure if you look at ANY auto manufacturer, even some of the most reliable, you will see engine or other major mechanical failures. On what percentage does it happen or? Who knows.

Isuzu DOES have a good reputation for high quality products in the past and present (although they tend to keep the same technology in use for a while). Now, I can't speak as to why there have been a few people, on this board even, that have had engine troubles... which could quite possibly mean that there could be the same percentage Isuzu owners driving vehicles with similar engines (Trooper, Amigo, Rodeo) having these problems as well. I haven't heard of many more cases outside of this board, so I don't know how common the problem is.

I must say, though, that just the number of people I have heard of here, on this forum, is enough to make me cautious.

[VX_PA]

That was pretty much my thoughts and the reason I purchased a VX in the first place. It's sad because I kick myself now for trading in my Nissan 4X4 for it. It's still on the road and has 214,000 miles on it (one of my buddies bought it). Those weren't pampered miles either, because I really ran the guts out of it and it never gave me one hiccup. Just kept the oil changed and replaced belts, hoses, and tires. I think I might buy a Nissan Frontier or the new full size truck this summer. I'm just going to use the VX for bad advertisement for Isuzu by taking it to car shows with a sign listing how Isuzu didn't stand by their product. They let down the wrong customer here!!

[Andrey]

If Isuzu says that engine can consume up to a quart in 1K miles and its NORMAL it makes me think why not a single other car that I had ever did something like that ???

[psychos2]

I am beginning to wonder if there is a hidden problem causing this? just saying the #1 rod failed do to lack of oil is not a good enough answer.if this was a design flaw then they would all fail.there has to be something to cause the lack oil. weak oil pump?improper bearing clearance ? the problem is once it happens it is too late to find out the problem.they replace it with a short block with a new oil pump.i will be installing an oil pressure gauge soon. i will also be getting the oil tested to see if there is excess bearing material.if there is i will be speaking to isuzu before the failure. i have not looked yet but if you can get to the rod from the bottom you can change the bearing before if fails. that is a big if. shawn

[psychos2]

i was just looking at the vehicross cd , and noticed the oil pump is in the front of the oil pan. which should feed the front bearings first. i do not know this as fact, but when the oil pump is in the rear of the pan it supplies the rear bearings first. can anyone confirm this. ARE THE FRONT BEARINGS OILED FIRST?? shawn

[SGT.BATGUANO]

Originally posted by VX_PA
My dealer said that faulty bearings were the cause of mine.

Can you get that in writing? Maybe you could say you need it to submit a claim to your (fictitious) extended warranty company. Got maintenance records? Talk to a lawyer, it may be cheaper to have a lawyer threaten them with legal action, than to pay full price for a new engine. Many dealers have a "good faith" slush fund that they can use to help offset some of the expense for out of warranty repairs.

Just a suggestion

I've also read here that there was a known oiling problem, which was supposedly addressed. Not sure what model year the correction took place.

Engine rebuilders/ speed shops usually have some mods that address these kind of problems, like restrictors that keep more oil low in the engine or grooving bearings or adding additional oiling passages at the offending area.

Has anyone torn a VX engine down to see if our engine has any of these kind of supplemental mods from the factory?

[coachreed]

OK, first things... one of my MAIN problems with ANY question as to whether or not they will cover the repair... I NEVER have anyone maintain my vehicles... I ALWAYS do it myself! No receipts, not papertrail of maintanence... they think that is "neglect". Just a short list of vehicles of mine (and their mileage when I got rid of them)....

'89 Baretta GT... 145K miles
'90 Mustang LX... 389K miles
'93 Ford F-150... 135K miles

I have had LOTS of other cars that were up into the 80K mile range without ANY trouble... the ones above are just the higher ones I remember specifically... each of them was maintained the same as my VX is... Heck, the Mustang would only go through ONE quart of oil in a 5000 mile oil change... and i think it leaked most of that... that is as good as ANY new ford does! Geesh! If I am neglectful to my vehicles, I would like to know how!

So, now that I have cleared that up, about maintenence records... I will argue this to the death if they fight it! I have NEVER had a problem like this! And the fact that I paid for a warranty on my VX... and now they may not do anything about it, makes me sick.

Not that they (the warranty company) cares, but I typically on average get a different car every 18 months-two years... and I will NEVER buy another one of their warranties again... again, I doubt they care! They can kiss my @$$!

Anyway, I have questions about motors... rebuild or replace... I will start a new thread for those though. Thanks for the input guys!

TTYL!

[VX_PA]

Coach,

I've already tried the rebuilt motor route and it's a no go. There isn't a company that does it and you're not likely going to find an engine in a junkyard. If you've thought of rebuilding the engine yourself, as I did, you will find that all the internal components are aluminum and will require being machined to very exact specs. That alone would run you into costs more than what a new engine costs. A new motor can be had for between $4,000-$4,500 if you want to install it yourself. If you could find a block you may be able to buy it for around $3000. Before doing that make sure that your heads are in good shape and can be re-used. All parts and gaskets needed will have to be purchased direct from Isuzu. There isn't an aftermarket company that I could find that offers a gasket kit for the VX.

What kind of price did your dealer quote you to replace the engine?? If you can negotiate that price down with them it would be worth having them do the work. I was quoted $5,500 and ended up paying $4,675 as I got the dealer to give me a 15% discount on the engine and labor.

[Dallas4u]

Originally posted by coachreed
'89 Baretta GT... 145K miles


;eekb; Yeah, I'd say you maintain your autos well if you could get a Baretta up to 145k miles!!!

By the way, as asked in your other thread, Tone has the VX with the "5L" on the side. It isn't a dropped in 5.0, but just taking the "3." decals off in front of it. It's up to you on where to go with it, but another engine from another manufacturer will end up costing a lot more than a new engine from Isuzu, or even rebuilding this one yourself, if you consider the custom pieces you'll need made.

[AlaskaVX]

Was reading on the 4x4wire and saw this, figured it is one of the best explanations so far.

"Several people with engine failures have reported that their dealer told them the replacement engines have a new oil ring design. Reportedly the new ones have more and/or bigger oil drain back holes.

As the story goes the original rings therefore tend to leave oil in the combustion chamber causing the oil consumption problem. This oil usage/oil ring plugging can go from bad to worse with little or no warning. Thus the reason to check the level frequently, keep the PCV and EGR clean, as well as not stretch oil change intervals."

[Andrey]

coach, you bought oil for vx in store right.. any chance you saved receipts ? thats what i do - i buy oil at sears and then go to a friend to have it changed. i write my milage and date on sears receipts.

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

Originally posted by Andrey
coach, you bought oil for vx in store right.. any chance you saved receipts ? thats what i do - i buy oil and then i write my milage and date on receipts.

This is what I do along with filling in the maintenance section of the VX warranty manual. If I have anything done at the dealer I have them fill this out as well as signing off on it.

I figure If I have any problems down the road I'll have all my dated receipts with mileage along with my corresponding warranty book describing the service performed by either me or the dealer.