Not Impressed

[Raque Thomas]

with the VX's snow manners!

I finally got my VX back from the ex-wife and drove it in the snow for the first time today. If my TOD is working correctly - IT SUCKS!!! I've owned several Cherokees and Explorers and never had a 4X4 that handles the snow so poorly! I saw a post a while back about someone doing a 360 in the snow by accident, and everyone said that shouldn't happen - I pulled away from a red light, turning right and almost swapped ends - the rear end swung around and pointed me sideways - without a lot of gas. I am VERY familiar with driving in slick conditions, and like I said have never had a 4X4 that handled so poorly. I've got the stock tires with 20k on them.

My TOD gauge was lighting up like a set of blinking Christmas lights - up and down, up and down everytime I took off (I wasn't doing jack rabbit starts - just normal, snowy condition starts). Seems like it should engage the front wheels and leave them engaged for a short while, instead of rapid engaging and disengaging. Is this how the system is supposed to work? If so, I'd like to figure out hosw to hook up a switch to leave the 4X4 high engaged for these kinds of conditions. I slid several times, and there was a lot of activity audibly going on in the drivetrain. Also, the ABS system seems extremely sensitive in these conditions, and would engage at the drop of a hat. I was looking forward to bragging about the prowess of the VX in the snow - now I'm hoping no one asked me how it did!

[VehiX]

1, sounds like you need new tires. 2, You need to take the power mode off and use alternate gears depending on the conditions. 3rd is good the snow IMHO. Power mode in the snow is not needed. There's a lot of torque put to the wheels with the power mode on. Hell, I can get tod to kick in on dry roads with plenty of tread on the tires :)

The ABS is sensitive because you are trying to stop a very heavy vehicle in snowy, slippery conditions. Work on anticipating your breaking distances.

I would recomend finding a big, empty parking lot and getting use to how the VX performs in these conditions.


:)

[coachreed]

Sound completely wrong to me... my VX (before the motor went) got around GREAT in the snow... I was TRYING to slide and had a hard time doing so... heck, I was driving regular freeway speeds in a snow storm that had everyone else doing 20-25 mph... I LOVE my VX in the snow... I just hope that i have the new motor in before the last snow... not gonna be in time for the NEXT one... expecting to get 8-1 5 inches fron Saturday night thru Monday sometime... gotta love it! Sounds to me that you need new tires. As for ABS... even in good conditions I think the ABS is sketchy... don't care for ABS on any vehicle... I am from the school of pumping my own brakes anyway... I don't need no stinking ABS. I know of a couple other Isuzu vehicles that have had ABS problems... not the VX... but Amigo and Rodeo have had service bulletins on the ABS... if not recalls.

Anyway... get new tires... get some practice... if it keeps slipping and sliding like that, I'd consider having the TOD checked out. I wonder if the TOD display could be displaying what it SHOULD be doing... even if its NOT doing it... if that made any sense.

Good Luck... TTYL!

[VXRaNgEr]

Yup! I drove to Denver (50 miles) on ICE(!), not snow and the VX did wonderfully. Other 4WDs (namely trucks) were getting stuck going up slight grades while I just zipped along. And this is with stock Duelers at 35psi. Someone else had posted about the TOD lighting up but the front wheels not engaging. Maybe you should check it out? Even without the TOD working, the VX has one of the tightest limited slip rear diffs made...

[billh23]

I am still getting used to my VX in the snow too. I have owned a Ford 4x4 pickup and a Ford Explorer 4x4. Both vehicles reacted quite a bit different in the snow then my VX has. It doesn't really feel like it has true 4x4, which maybe it doesn't?? I get quite a bit of snow driving practice in MN, currently my street has been frozen with snow since December. It seems to react more like a rear-wheel drive car then a 4x4 truck. The handling doesn't seem quite there when you are driving on all hard pack snow or a mix of hard pack and cement. I find my back end kicking out a lot when giving it some pedel, which normally wouldn't happen on a 4x4 truck when 4x4 high.

[mrtew]

I discovered a little button on the console near the Power button labled "Winter". It really helps! It's almost impossible to get the back end to whip around on you like it does with only the Power button on. Has anyone else tried it? They must have put it there for some reason. Seriously.

[yal^]

well...
The weather conditions in Chicago area weren't so great in last couple of weeks, so I thought my VX with new all terrain BFG's A/T 265/75/16 will go through with no bigger problems, but...
Road handling is not bad at all once it's moving. It's the corners and taking off that are giving me problems. I sled through the stop sign; TOD and ABS were working, and almost got hit by oncoming car. It's not my driving either, although I tend to have a heavy foot, but freezing rain and short distance to the exit did not let me to get any speed. It is better than any truck I drove before, definitely better than my aunts' Cherokee, but I feel it could be better. Finally, after a week of this sliding I used Power Drive. It got better, a little better, but still... I guess there is no solution for ice. We gonna dance on it anyway...

[coachreed]

Originally posted by yal^
blah blah blah yak yak yak...but still... I guess there is no solution for ice... blah blah blah yah yak yak

Have you never heard of studded snow tires? I have seen jeep races in colorado on frozen lakes... them damn things launch like rockets and corner like they are onl rails... ok, relatively speaking... no, studded snow tires aren't for everyday use, but there IS a solution to ice...

TTYL!

Coach!

[Daver]

Originally posted by billh23
It seems to react more like a rear-wheel drive car then a 4x4 truck.

I'll agree with this to an extent. TOD is fundamentally reactive, and not proactive. I've been wanting a 4Hi since I got the thing. It really doesn't have the raw traction of full-time 4WD except in 4Lo.

-Daver

[dog]

This is my first winter with the VX and my experience is similar to Rac and Yal's. I have driven Cherokees, Grand Cherokees and an Explorer over the past 15 years. The VX IS diferent. It's great when you get going, but it does perform like a 2wd until TOD kicks in at about 7mph. I've held off getting new tires and debated about get snow tires just for winter (studded tires are illegal in my State), tall and narrow for the snow, and wider for the remaining eight months of the year. But, still thinking that one over.

Back to driving. If you use the Winter button, you have to engage it every time you stop. Not always practical in city driving. I agree that the slow-turn or turn-from-stop create the most problems. I've found that accelerating through the turn gets the best results....get the front tires spinning and kick in TOD and pull your way through the turn. Not so easy in traffic......hard to push on the accelerator when reading the bumper sticker in front of you. But, take it out in an open area and play with it. Try different techniques, the VX is different. Once you get it going, it's great in the snow. I've always rated a 4wd on how it cuts through the ruts when you change lanes at highway speeds. The Cherokee was the best (like a hot knife through butter) and the Explorer the worst. The VX is right up there with the Cherokee.

Stopping.....that's another issue. I'm still working on that one. I've held off disconnecting the ABS, still getting the "feel" of the sensitive system. Pulling the fuse or installing a switch may be the answer. But I'm not giving up just yet.

As we all know, our VX is different. It looks different and performs differently, that's why we own one. "Different" is not bad, in fact, it's good.

[autox-racer]

Hmm, I am very impressed with the VX TOD.

However, you cannot compare it to a full time 4wd or AWD. It is a little tricky because the rear wheels have to start spinning before more power is transmitted to the front. I personally prefer it that way because i can throw it sideways with throttle induced oversteer and then counter steer to pull it out of the spin as the TOD kicks (works in snow/wet/grass/mud) … couple that with our low gearing and I can understand why my VX is a little twitchy taking off in snow.

Makes for a fun vehicle to drive in my opinion. In a straight line i have great acceleration in the snow... almost scary acceleration as i realize im doing 40mph in no time, down a street with parked cars on both sides of me and limited brake traction.

The one area im have problems with is the massive understeer I get when turning on snow. I don’t know if it is my nitto terra grapplers or if it is just the vehicle being so damn heavy. I have solved this problem by stomping on the gas so the TOD kicks in. I cant remember how my stock tires did during turning in snow but I do remember them being almost bald and they had great acceleration in a straight line.
:D

[AnalogVX]

Originally posted by coachreed
Have you never heard of studded snow tires? I have seen jeep races in colorado on frozen lakes... them damn things launch like rockets and corner like they are onl rails... ok, relatively speaking... no, studded snow tires aren't for everyday use, but there IS a solution to ice...

TTYL!

Coach!

Studded tires are illegal on any road in Illinois. Except for emegency vehicles. So we keep dancing.

[joe-yamma]

I had similar problems until i got my 255/70/16 BFG A/T's...
I have found that staying on the gas (when possible of course) really increases control as the front wheels pull you along and straighten you out.

I will admit that I am still suspect of the ABS, but I have been getting used to it at least. Hopefully, any braking problems I have will disappear when I put new rotors and pads all the way around. ;)

Joe

[VXRaNgEr]

It just snowed this morning :D so I'm gonna go out and shoot some VIDEO of this b!tch in the snow if I get some time. Check your laws on studded tires...almost everyone in NY and VT had 'em and I've heard a couple out here. Yep, HEARD. Those things are the loudest set of skins you can buy. They sound like you're driving on millions of suction cups...wait, that's kinda cool isn't it?:winko:

[Eckstream]

I spun mine the first time I drove in the snow too. I was on a straight road and got on it..... Next thing I know Im off the road. I think its because of the extremely short wheel base. As for the ABS I just pulled the fuse out. I never did like ABS.....

[Raque Thomas]

Thanks for the input guys, it sounds like what I experienced is the same as most of you experienced. My biggest concern was whether the TOD was working properly, as it kept engaging and disengaging as I was leaving a stop 4-5 times in a row. I know that someone posted here how to disable the TOD, I wondered if anyone had a solution to keep the 4 wheel high engaged.

[yal^]

Originally posted by coachreed
Have you never heard of studded snow tires? I have seen jeep races in colorado on frozen lakes... them damn things launch like rockets and corner like they are onl rails... ok, relatively speaking... no, studded snow tires aren't for everyday use, but there IS a solution to ice...

TTYL!

Coach!

Hostile a little, aren't we?
As Analog said studded snow tires are illegal here.
Besides, I do not drive on frozen lakes... so why be obnoxious?

[WormGod]

My first time out in the white stuff was a little iffy, but it was just the tires. The Yokos I have are street use only. I could see the TOD was kicking in when it had to so I know the computer was doing it's job quite well. I still have the same ties this year in this snow, and I am more used to driving with them in teh snow, so I had no problems at all. I can only imagine how supreme the VX would handle with some AT's in snow. WOW!

[billh23]

I too would like to know if it is possible to keep the 4x4 high engaged. This is my first winter in the VX, and living in MN I have about 6 months of winter driving a year to deal with. My previous vehicle was a 4x4 truck, and I loved leaving the 4high on whenever the roads were slippery or we started getting a dusting of snow. Its hard to explain to people that aren't used to driving in these conditions, but a lot of people don't use 4x4 just to fly through snow drifts or go off-roading. I need 4x4 just to get to work and back on the city roads. It wouldn't be bad if it were just a snow storm or two a year and it melted, but our first snow of the season typically hits in November and it stays on the roads until April.

I had a Ford Explorer a while back that had the "on demand" 4x4 and I flipped the damn thing during a snow storm. Because the 4high didn't engage until I lost traction and by then it was too late. My most previous vehicle was a 4x4 truck that I could leave engaged if I wanted, and it worked great.

[ScubaSteve]

Odd that your snow performance isn't "up to par"... I've got scorpion zeros that are rated as very poor performers in the snow, but there's no stopping the VX in the snow (except the brakes of course;) )

Heck, I was plowing right through 5 foot snow mounts in parking lots (accidentally found a curb too, but it didn't faze her in the slightest)...

As far as TOD is concerns, he's my new best friend. They didn't plow my dad's street (private road) so I drove over there and flattened it all out for em... only 6 inches or so, but its a nice downhill slope w/ ditches on both sides and she had no problems at all. This is THE best stock off-road-capable truck i've driven.

[VX922]

I don’t have the greatest experience with TOD neither.
I used to live by St Mary's glacier Co (12,000ft above sea level) and commute to Denver, lots of snow in winter.

The TOD functions only if the TOD computer detects difference between front and rear shaft synchronization or when the gas pedal is pressed.
When TOD clutches are engaged then there is no out of synchronization condition detected and computer will almost instantly disengage the clutches despite the fact that the vehicle is still on slippery surface. Final result is hammering of the clutches when accelerating on snow ice etc. The Isuzu engineers could do better job at programming the TOD computer I think. I also assume that the vehicle was never tested in real life conditions.
One of the best advantages of any 4X4 is that with the power to all four wheels there is a lot better directional stability especially in turns and that is exactly when TOD will let you down.
Other rather stupid feature on VX is limited slip differential. Driver of the vehicle has no control over when the wheel lock up and when they do your rear end will slide sideways. The ltd diff is useless when off roading in low range because its grabbing strength is not adequate to maintain the diff locked anyway.
So what is the remedy? First install override switch for TOD then put in a set of real lockers.

VX922

[VX_PA]

You guys keep talking about the VX spinning out doing 360's. I try in snow filled parking lots, fields, and anywhere else that doesn't have any dangers nearby. I can't get it to slide out of control let alone pull a full 360. I'm kinda feelin' jealous here! I don't know if it's my BFG AT's or if I'm not whipping the wheel hard enough? No matter, it seems that I get snow at least once a week here lately, so I will keep trying until I scare the bejesus out of myself. The most I get is a small tail-slide (trying really hard just for that) and the front may plow slide just a bit until the TOD ruins that.

Now with that said, anyone having problems with their VX handling bad in the snow buy a set of BFG AT's and problem solved. Oh yeah, I don't care for ABS brakes either! Just used to them after 5 years.

Later......;Dy;

[SGT.BATGUANO]

Most off-road tires aren't designed for snow, even the stock tires aren't rated well. There are some good winter tires out there. Continental Exterme Contact Winter, Pirelli Scorpion Ice and Snow and Bridgestone Winter Duellers are highly rated.

[WyrreJ]

VX_PA - I haven't been "surprised" by my VX yet, but I can make the tail break loose real easy on snow - start from a standstill as if you are at a 4-way stop intersection, turn right and accelerate while turning. I do it all the time - TOD kicks in and pulls me through the turn while the tail swings around on its own. I usually end up making a 100-110 degree turn rather than just 90 degrees and have to steer back left once the tail-end has traction again.

I'm pretty confident that if I really goosed it instead of just tapping on the accelerator, then I'd be seeing at least 180 degrees instead of just 110. But I haven't had the opportunity to try it safely yet.

This is all with the stock tires.

[Tonka]

This topic comes up every once in a while. The new tire thing helps, the short wheel base doesn't. I do notice that the TOD does react differently than 4 HI but personally i like it better because i don't have to switch 4WD on and off from dry pavement to icy roads all the time. It just takes some practice and the rewards are great. Just make sure you get a better tire than the sucky ones that come stock. If you still don't like it use 4LOW. I think you can go as fast as 45mph?
My 2cents.

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

Originally posted by SGT.BATGUANO
Most off-road tires aren't designed for snow, even the stock tires aren't rated well. There are some good winter tires out there. Continental Exterme Contact Winter, Pirelli Scorpion Ice and Snow and Bridgestone Winter Duellers are highly rated.

I live in the snow-belt of lake erie and get "dumped-on" with lake effect snows regularly. I think it's snowed every day for the last 2 weeks here. What SGT. says is absolutely correct. Add to this that some of us have the stock tires that are no longer new...mine have 33k miles on them....and the fact that snow varies in consistancy...I mean you get powdery snow one day...wet, slushy snow the next! My VX will eat-up powdery snow for breakfast with the well-worn stock Bridgestones. I have a 2-acre yard with hills that I play in with the VX like a quadrunner! I drove the VX through 2-3 ft snow drifts of powdery snow and it gripped without any issues. Than, we had freezing rain and switched over to snow accumulating about 2 inches...I couldn't get up my drive-way! My issues this winter have been soley with "Stopping" on icy roads. I deal with this by slowing down immensly before an intersection and kicking the VX into N and lightly braking to a stop. Than kick winter button if sitting on icy patch.

[VX922]

Would anybody be interested in TOD override?

[billh23]

So the front wheels never engage or are always engaged?

[VX922]

billh23
Front wheel engage only if there is slippage detected then they disengage immediatly following with rear wheels slipping, slippage is detected again and the cycle repeats on and on.

VX922

[driver3]

It's all about the tires...

The short wheelbase is the problem with spinning out, but that's the same problem wranglers have. If I went out side right now with my kumhos I'd be in a ditch. Tires tires tires... the rest is practice...

[billh23]

I'd agree that the tires are probably causing some of my slippage they are still the stock rubbers. But practice? Give me a break. I've been driving in snow since I learned to drive, about 20 years ago. We just got another 6" of fresh snow today and another 4" is predicted for tomorrow. I don't need to practice driving in snow, thats how I go to work and grocery shopping!! LOL

And to the person who said doing a 360 is impossible with the VX on snow, I live in a circle, I'll show you how to do it anytime.. This thing is so light in the *** that I just give it a little "goose" on the pedal and the rear end kicks out like crazy.

[Navigator]

...I'd check the tire pressure and make sure it's @ 29 PSI. Higher presures will give you less of a road patch. Also we have no idea how much tread is on the tires, or circumstances beyond the vehicle such as ICE under the snow etc. What I can tell you is, I live in an area with plenty of snow and I never had your problem :luck:

[hitnrun74]

I have to think it's just a difference in driving style. I'm in Northeastern Ohio, with a foot of snow and lots of Ice. I'm running Kumho Ecsta 255/55/18 and haven't had the slightest trouble. I can oversteer if I want to, but other than that, i just cruise along. I tried to get her to spin around in a parking lot the other day, no dice. TOD and the vx definitely handles the snow and ice better than my nissan frontier in 4 wheel. The winter button is an excellent feature--those of you who aren't using it should start.

[newthings]

Being from California snow conuntry, but new to Oregon, (I just put on the cables and drive away) I found many folks scratching down the road on studs this January.
I asked at the local tire store and found most studded tires were a no name brand and cost about $60 each. They last about 3 seasons.
I looked at the Tire Rack web site and found the Bridgestone winter duler DM-Z2 performed better on an ice rink skid pad than the studded tires. The tire carries the same snowflake symbol as studded "Traction " tires, as they are known in Oregon.
I may try some next season.
Roy

[Navigator]

...and never look back. Best winter tires I ever used. Not sure if they are still available, but they had awsome ice traction. Never needed them on my VX, running on Michelin Cross Trainers, but on extreme ice conditions Blizzak is the shizzle. Search Google for availability.

[Sheik-YurBooty]

About 6 weeks ago or so when NYC had its first taste of snow for the season , I was the one who posted bout my VX going almost 360 from a stand still start at a stop sign. Being that it was my 1st experience driving the VX in the snowy weather, I figuered that I might as well give it a few more tries just to see if it was just something random. Ive been driving in these conditions over twenty years, so Im quite familiar with snow mishaps! Not to mention that Ive driven several other SUV'S with & without ABS.Well, since that 1st experience. I have been driving in the same conditions w/ the VX and this had happened again quite a few times. The slower I drive on side streets, I prey that the guy ahead of me keeps his pace. I stay so far behind ,others behind me start blowing their horns. It just doesnt do well when going slow. On the highway its a pleasure! Passing big rigs at 50mph is a piece a cake. The only problem is that eventually I must get off the highway. Its amazing just how a 4000 pound truck feels like it weighs 0 pounds when driving very very slow in these conditions.......Dont even think of telling me its the tires, allignment or anything else. Thats just the way it is! Regardless to all of that, I still LOVE my VX......Just keep in mind , that no vehicle is perfect! I just wish it were Spring again!....Drive safe you guys & gals.................Bruce........PS. How come no one mentioned about chains for the tires? lol

[Eckstream]

Come over my way next snowstorm and Ill show you how to loop it around..... Its kinda easy actually. Start from a stop with the wheel turned about a full turn slowly at 180 just stomp it and it loops right into some cool doughnuts. The key is to start the turn before you hit the gas..... Also I have a set of 15" Blizzaks used for one season if someone wants to take em off my hands make me an offer.

[MZ-N10]

i feel ripped...everyone gets to play with snow but me....:mad:
________
Buy bubblers (http://bubblers.net/)

[VX_PA]

Originally posted by Eckstream
Come over my way next snowstorm and Ill show you how to loop it around.....

Thanks for the invite, but I'm kinda excited that there's an icestorm scheduled for tomorrow. I should be able to pull 360's in the ice. Oh, and I'm going to try everything mentioned here,
going slow (under 7 mph), starting with the wheels turned, and using the power button.

If it still feels controllable in the ice and under all the above conditions I'm gonna be back on here cutting on anyone mentioning snow problems. Or I'll just brag about my supernatural driving skills. LOL

[joe-yamma]

VX_PA, like you said, I have had no luck woth 360's in the snow... Ice, might be a different story ;)
I think our lack of 360 ability definitely has to do with the BFG A/Ts!!! These tires have made my VX a totally different vehicle than it was with stock rubber. I am very confident in my VX's winter and off-raod capabilities now. Two good stories:
1.) One of my good friends worked at an Isuzu dealership right out of college... When I got my VX he told me about how he'd do 360's in the thing on wet pavement... He told me to turn the wheels all the way to the right and then floor it and it'd do 360's all day... I haven't tried it myself, but supposedly he had fun in a couple of VX's on the lot when he was selling them. :eek: :mad:
2.) I was playing around in our work parking lot after work with a guy I work with who has an 01 Jeep Wrangler and we were playing around climbing up this mound of plowed snow a little taller than our vehicles... We were taking turns climbing up it and I saw that he put his Jeep into 4wd, so I put the VX into 4low almost went right over the thing without even trying! Needless to say, he was quite impressed with the VX's angle of approach! :D

Joe

[technocoy]

apparently no one here has read their manuals or looked at their console lately.

WINTER MODE.

we just had snow and then ice last week. on the snow the VX performed flawlessly.

on the ice it was kicking out on starts, so i looked down and oh my GOD what is that? A WINTER MODE BUTTON! but what constitutes winter driving conditions? surely not ice and snow... jesus.:rolleyes:

so i pushed this mysterious button, anxious to see what my actions would bring, and low and behold, my VX didn't kick out any more!!! even when i tried!!

really people i know we are not physics majors here, but i have driven a lot of 4 wheel drives, and not ONE performs well on ice. ice is slick. unless you have chains or studs, you slide. if power is going to 4 wheels or two it doesn't matter.

snow is another story, the VX performs VERY well in these conditions.

so, before you go knocking one of the best rally inspired, four-wheel drive vehicles ever produced, drive like you have sense and when it is winter outside.....

.... try pushing that big button that says WINTER MODE.

damn.
sorry for the rant.
technocoy.

[crager34]

Yep... winter mode works fine....

Until you hit 22 MPH then it automatically shuts off. I can understand that, but would be nice to have that option up to aobut 45 (city driving).

[VX_PA]

Who needs winter mode? "We don't need no stinkin winter mode!" To this date I have never even used winter mode. Shoot, last winter I didn't even have winter mode. It didn't work until after my engine was replaced in November 2003. I wouldn't have even cared if it didn't work, just don't need it. Come to think about it, I don't even use the power mode. Never once did I use it with the old engine and I haven't even pushed it since I replaced it. I get terrible fuel mileage without the power button pushed, why would I want worse mileage now with fuel prices on the rise again.;)

[joe-yamma]

Winter Mode does work quite well... The only time I have used it is on a very very (people who have been to Pittsburgh will understand) steep hill by my house that was covered in snow and ice and it worked very well.

But I can tell you that with my old tires, Winter Mode couldn't help.

Joe

[AlaskaVX]

Hey Raque, make sure your 4x4 is working. When my 4x4 went out the VX handled like crap on the roads (However thats the only time "winter mode" ever got some use, and it worked well). The TOD lights were still working. Seriously the VX handles sooo well on ice/snow that I am trying to get into some ice racing up here. If your start sliding out most of the time you can hit the gas and bam, 4x4 kicks in and gets you going straight. Either you have a lead foot, can't drive in winter, or your 4x4 is out. ABS is touchy you just need to drive a lot and you will get used to how to brake without ABS.

[AlaskaVX]

Originally posted by VX_PA
Thanks for the invite, but I'm kinda excited that there's an icestorm scheduled for tomorrow. I should be able to pull 360's in the ice. Oh, and I'm going to try everything mentioned here,
going slow (under 7 mph), starting with the wheels turned, and using the power button.

If it still feels controllable in the ice and under all the above conditions I'm gonna be back on here cutting on anyone mentioning snow problems. Or I'll just brag about my supernatural driving skills. LOL
C'mon How can people not be able to spin 360's, upon 360s, upon a 18000's! thats right 18000's.
OK find a parking lot that you could slide on with your shoes. Now crank that steering wheel all the way to one side while stopped. Now hit that gas pedal and keep those RPM's going around 3500 and you will spin an absolutely perfect circle until you let off the gas! I have had tons of people come up to me and say that it was the coolest, tightest circles they have ever seen. And they ask how the hell I can do them, but it's not my driving, its the car! If you keep the gas going you start spinning faster and faster untill you start leaning your spinning so fast. Then you let off the gas, come to a stop, and sit there for 5 min. your sooo dizzy! You guys are letting off the gas or something. One thing I found out is when my 4x4 was out I could not spin the circle I could with TOD, in fact I could only get about a 540 and that was it! If there was such a thing as a broadie contest the VX would put every other car to shame!

[VX_PA]

Originally posted by AlaskaVX
If there was such a thing as a broadie contest the VX would put every other car to shame!

There is such a contest. It's called drifting!! It's mostly a popular contest in Japan, but it is gaining a presence in the US. Basically you run your car (that's what they're using preferably RWD) around a track sliding what looks to be totally out of control but not losing it and eating the wall. It would probably be fun, but it's mostly favorable to the ricers. That doesn't sit well with most folks here.

Also, I've been going about the 360 thing all wrong. I have been flooring it straight and then whipping the wheel, that doesn't work. But I still say that no one with a VX should be accidentally blowing 360's, especially if it takes turning the wheel and flooring it. Who in their right mind is doing that in traffic at a stoplight or stop sign? My advise; feather the gas! Or use the winter button as mentioned so many times during this thread. Oh and get new tires. Nuff said.

[billh23]

The winter button is OK if you are having problems pulling away from a stop sign, but it is completly worthless for daily driving. Not only can you not hit the winter button everytime you get to a stop sign, but how about in rush hour traffic? Also, it does nothing for my traction when turning through an intersection or yielding then making a turn (intersections are where the snow tends to get the most mushy and rutted).

I guess I am dissapointed in the VX, I thought it was going to act more like a 4X4 truck, not like a part-time all wheel drive car. As much as I like the looks of the VX, I think the comforts + handling of the car are starting to wear on me. I cannot count how many times I've spilled my drink all down the center console because I have it jammed into that little square change holder thing that isn't quite big enough for a coffee mug. I am also sick of any friend I have that is more then 150# not being able to get into the backseat w/o a shoe horn. My windows continue to go up at the pace of a snail, even after having Isuzu inspect them under warranty and tell me they are fine. The two door part is OK, because I knew that going in, but the fact that the seats don't even move to let someone in is kind of lame. The engine power is nice, but its not any faster then a Trailblazer or most V8 sized pickups. I do have to admit it "feels" faster, but that could just be due to the smaller size and engine noise.

Anyway, enough rants.

[Raque Thomas]

Originally posted by AlaskaVX
Hey Raque, make sure your 4x4 is working. When my 4x4 went out the VX handled like crap on the roads (However thats the only time "winter mode" ever got some use, and it worked well). The TOD lights were still working. Seriously the VX handles sooo well on ice/snow that I am trying to get into some ice racing up here. If your start sliding out most of the time you can hit the gas and bam, 4x4 kicks in and gets you going straight. Either you have a lead foot, can't drive in winter, or your 4x4 is out. ABS is touchy you just need to drive a lot and you will get used to how to brake without ABS.

I assure you that I am very experienced in driving in poor conditions, but have always done so with 4 wheel high or AWD - the VX system doesn't come close to those IMO. My 4wl is working, I did the "circle test" to make sure that it was in 4WD. The issue is the rapid application and back off of the front wheel engagement. Several people have said that a 360 isn't possible in the VX, but I can tell you that mine will do it in a New York minute! Someone sent me an idea to fool the TOD into thinking that it needed to stay engaged - I'm going to try that when I get a chance.

On the flip side, every vehicle handles differently and takes some getting used to, so I'm going to experiment with it some. Unfortunately, I didn't have time to go to a deserted area and play with the VX to get accustomed to its handling quirks in the snow - I will during the next snow, and I WILL remove that ABS fuse!

[Tone]

The VX is NOT for everyone and TOD does not cure improper driving technique. True 4WD (LO) is typically used offroad in difficult traction situations. Maybe you need a 4Hi Yukon (or maybe an Assender) for all your friends to pile in and you can suffer the cost of 4WD HI all the time if you really need it. Oh yeah, a VX can take a Trailblazer BTW....

[AnalogVX]

...they are CRAP! I had the same thing happen to me the first time I drove the VX in the snow with an underlying layer of ice. The stock bridgestones had 36k miles on them. I bought new AT Revos and have NEVER had trouble since. The VX handles great in the snow now. BTW, I'll have to try the 360 technique. :D

[nocturnalVX]

I agree with Rich. The stock bridgestones worked O.K. the first Winter I had them, but were not nearly as good last year. I'm glad I went with the AT tires I've got now, but I've seen the tread pattern on the Revos & it's much better than the Bridgestones that come factory equipped. The TOD works amazingly well to keep traction (I get a kick out of seeing the display flicker), but there's nothing (streetable) that will keep you from sliding on ice so be carefull!

[VX_PA]

Actually it was a coating of ice on the parking lot covered by about 3 inches of snow. I pulled in and stopped, turned the wheels to the right, and gave it the the gas. It didn't start pulling a tight 360 right away so I stayed on the throttle to tighten up the turning radius. Then it pulled a tight 360 followed by another tight 360 but then it started fading off. I could've probably got it back into a tight circle again but there were some parked cars about 20 feet away so I stopped before anything bad could happen. To come out of the 360 all I had to do was a quick counter-steer and the VX straightened right up. Keep in mind this was on ice covered with snow and I still had total control of the VX. It's the tires, I will guarentee that it's the tires! Nothing is good on ice, except my VX with BFG AT's!!

Thanks AlaskaVX for the proper 360 technique. It works!! (On the proper surface):D

[SPAZZ]

ok...I know what it is like to have TOD properly working in any condition out there. It is IMPOSSIBLE to lose control when TOD is working properly.
Amazing in ice, snow, mud, rain, sleet, hail, and those series of grater bumps on dirt/gravel roads that make you slide...and just about anything else that could make you lose traction or slip and slide.

I also know what it is like to have TOD not working properly or not at all...as now I have this problem. I know exactly how those VX owners feel whos VXs' TOD does not work. It feels like you have no control and the rear end is about to swing out to either side sporadicly at any given second.

I want TOD back....has any one else had this problem or know how it can be fixed????


A) My TOD light has never flashed and I have no other lights on and no codes found when tested with computer.
B) 4Low works
C) I have manual AISIN locking hubs and have taken them apart, reinstalled, and they work.
D) TOD lights act as though they try to shift but power does not ingage...lights just flash up and then back down...but not at same time...like a TOD maxing out error or Issue...

couldn't have been from taking the little vixen swimming could it?

[psychos2]

i have noticed that if you take it out of power mode it is much better.one of the things causing the rear to slide is the limited slip rear axle.normally when one wheel spins you have the other to help hold you in a straight line.with the LSD you end up with both wheels spinning which causes the rear to slide.and second the stock tires suck in the snow. shawn

[SPAZZ]

TOD IS NOT WORKING......that is the cause of my sliding...HOW DO I GET IT WORKING AGAIN????

[mrtew]

Originally posted by SPAZZ
TOD IS NOT WORKING......that is the cause of my sliding...HOW DO I GET IT WORKING AGAIN????


I have a feeling your TOD is not working. Have you thought of that? :-]

[SPAZZ]

can you not see and read clearly??? if you can then you wouldn't answer with what I just said...


HOW DO I GET TOD WORKING????

[coachreed]

OK, here is my take on your problem... first off you say your TOD lights in the dash are flickering like things normally do... do they come on at all if you accelerate easily... making sure NOT to spin the tires? If they don't flicker then, and DO flicker when you get tire spin, that tells me that the TOD computer is working fine as for differentiating the front and rear prop shaft outputs... I think the problem is in the solenoid that ingages the clutch OR the clutch itself. Do you have the VX CD manual? If so take a look at the TOD info... if not, from what I found, there is a YELLOW wire that is for the electromagnetic solenoid... if you use a digital multimeter and measure the resisitance from the YELLOW wire and ground the coil should read 1.4-2 ohms... if it reads from 1-5 ohms, it is allowable... anything more or less and you need to replace it... unfortunately, I think that is a complete overhaul as your gonna have the thing cracked open. The other possibilty is the clutch being worn out... which case is an overhaul too... I just don't see it being anything else...

Now, with that all being said, maybe just MAYBE it has something to do with your getting wet... maybe you have a bad connection in your harnesses... let it dry out good or take a hair dryer to the plugs and see if there is a difference... maybe you'll get lucky.

TTYL!

Coach... I mean Randy (I often forget who I really am) ;)
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/406banner.jpg (http://www.geocities.com/ironmanvx2000)
Undergoing LS1 Conversion as we speak!
Click Image to Visit My Website!

[SPAZZ]

if I had my hubs on FREE and TOD attempts to engage...it would attempt to send power to prevent slippage....but wouldn't detect any...so then it would disengage....that shouldn't effect it or be hard on it right?

[visconte]

So unless Tahoe, Lassen or the San Gabriel's are on the route next winter I won't get to try 4WD in the snow. [Having said that there are some roads around Palos Verdes here that almost qualify as 4WD friendly.] Anyway there is a ghost-towning trip coming up out in the desert when we go to some ghost mining camps in Death Valley. Has anyone driven these cars in the sand?

[psychos2]

spazz, if i was talking directly to you i would have put your name at the begining, kind of like i am doing know. i do not know what you need to do to fix your TOD ,maybe a place were they fix cars might. :confused: shawn

[coachreed]

Originally posted by SPAZZ
if I had my hubs on FREE and TOD attempts to engage...it would attempt to send power to prevent slippage....but wouldn't detect any...so then it would disengage....that shouldn't effect it or be hard on it right?

Actually YES it would be hard on it... because it is going to CONSTANTLY cycle on and off the WHOLE time you are driving... this would create extra heat in the electromagnetic solenoid coil AND in the clutch. This could lead to failure of one or the other or both of these parts. Unfortunately, to replace these parts, you have to crack the TOD case open... or have it cracked open... which is gonna be costly I would guess. My 2¢ says if you have manual hubs and have them unlocked, you need to have the TOD disabled. I hope you didn't smoke anything... and I hope it doesn't cost you a ton to fix. Later!

Coach... I mean Randy (I often forget who I really am) ;)
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/406banner.jpg (http://www.geocities.com/ironmanvx2000)
Undergoing LS1 Conversion as we speak!
Click Image to Visit My Website!

[t2p]

Reply to the original post - Raque Thomas:
.
Raque - the OEM tires may be the culprit.
.
I recently spoke with a VX owner - Western PA owner (purchased a new 99) - and asked him about the performance in the snow. He said the VX was great in the snow - but was NOT good with the original OEM tires. He also said the handling was poor in some rain conditions with the OEM tires.
.
t2p

[SPAZZ]

ok... took to Auto Parts store and threw the scanner on just to see if it was throwing a code.

code thrown is P1860...any translation anyone?

I'm gonna go tear T-case apart if I have to to get to bottom of this

[Triathlete]

Spazz, do a search. Someone just recently posted a list of all the codes and their translations!

Found the post...Click here (http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2013)

[VX_PA]

Spazz,

Do you think this has anything to do with the whining noise that it's making?? Since mine is making the same sound, maybe my TOD is ready to give up the ghost? If you tear in to it, let me know what you find. I may have to do the same repair.:(

[SPAZZ]

P1860
TCC PWM Solenoid Circuit Failure

[Triathlete]

Simple math....lots of water+electronics=:waab: :cryb: :sadb:
Good luck with the fix. Let us know what it ends up being.

[Dallas4u]

TCC PWM Solenoid Circuit Electrical/ Transmission Transfer Case Contact Plate 'D' Short Circuit To Battery

[psychos2]

spazz, it is the torque converter clutch solenoid.it is transmission related not tod related.i would get a workshop manual cd it has a lot of useful info for diagnostic purposes. shawn

[SPAZZ]

I have one..it is just kind of vague...I guess if you knew what you were to do...then it is like a refresher...but if you didn't kno9w what you were doing in the forst place then it is too vague...

thought maybe someone could just explain how to do it if they knew.....

also my cd rom for some reason isn't reading at all...maybe it is an omen

[coachreed]

I still think you have either burned up your TOD engagement solenoid or the clutches themselves. Just my two cents... I would do as I said and test your solenoid resistance... and if that checks out ok, double check that all plugs are clean, dry, and plugged in and if that fails... pull the TOD and tear it down. Just what I would do... then again, this is coming from a person who keeps tearing things out of his VX! lol

Good Luck!

Randy

[SPAZZ]

how do I replace TCC Solenoid... steps by step?......

[Triathlete]

Spazz,
Step 1: Take out old one
Step2: Put new one in
Just kidding....hope you get your problem solved. I know those Idahoan(?) trails are calling your name!

[SPAZZ]

but, can anyone give a STEP BY STEP on how to change out the TCC Solenoid??? I already knew and stated that it needed changed and yes...to do that one must "Remove old one and install new one.

[coachreed]

Thats a tough one Spazz... I mean, basically... remove T-case (do you need play by play on that one?)... clean T-case of dirt and grime (don't want anything in the case when your done)... then from there I would say, drain fluids... crack case open by removing any bolts holding case halfs together... from there, its gonna be a matter of carefully disasembling the parts... you're probably gonna need some specialty tools but I could be wrong. I say if you can't find a manual specific to the T-case, you might want to drop it and find a shop locally who can do it for you... but if you want to give it a shot... just take lots of notes and pictures for your own records.

Good luck... I'll chat with you later!

Coach... I mean Randy (I often forget who I really am) ;)
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/406banner.jpg (http://www.geocities.com/ironmanvx2000)
Undergoing LS1 Conversion as we speak!
Click Image to Visit My Website!

[SPAZZ]

I don't think..at least by reading the manual when it was running on my computer...that you have to remove Tcase....I believe it was saying that you remove either the Transmission pan or the convertor sump pan....?
but from there I guess you just be careful of the wire harness and then unbolt old one??? Just thought maybe someone actually knew for sure and if they did they could give a brief description/walk through.

I guess the other question would be....

WHICH WIRE UNDER THE PASSENGER SEAT IS THE WIRE TO TAP IN TO HOOK UP A TOD OFF?ON SWITCH??? Some of you want to answer in vague smart coments ..so I will get things out now

YES- I know it is under the passenger seat
YES- I want to hook up a switch to turn TOD off and on at flip of said switch
YES- I know to turn TOD off and on with said switch that I must hook up a switch to the TOD wire under the passenger seat.
NO- I don't know which wire is the wire that a switch must be hooked to to disconnect TOD off/on with a flip of the switch
YES- I know how to hook up the switch and I know how to wire the switch

[Triathlete]

Spazz, I believe there is an exsisting post that tells exactly how to hook up a TOD disconnect. I remember it being discussed before. If its not here it may have been on the old board.

[Triathlete]

Try this one Spazz...
TOD Disconnect (http://club.vmag.com/ubb/Forum39/HTML/000600.html)

[mrtew]

...I wondered if anyone had a solution to keep the 4 wheel high engaged.

Today when I was driving in snow I was slipping around and it felt like the TOD cutting in and out was making me slip more. Then I got a bright idea... why not just shift into 4 wheel drive? It worked like a charm... no more slipping at all. Why worry about 4 wheel high? What's wrong with four wheel drive low?



I guess I am dissapointed in the VX, I thought it was going to act more like a 4X4 truck, not like a part-time all wheel drive car.

Put it in Four wheel drive low... it'll handle like the truckiest truck you ever drove. Why are people so afraid to shift that lever. I was and then I tried it... I love it. Isuzu put it there for a reason.




As much as I like the looks of the VX, I think the comforts + handling of the car are starting to wear on me.

Wait... you just said you wanted it to handle like a truck, not a car??? Which is it??? Now you want it to be a part-time all wheel drive car?




I cannot count how many times I've spilled my drink all down the center console because I have it jammed into that little square change holder thing that isn't quite big enough for a coffee mug.

Pull your thigh support out on your seat and put your drink beween your legs? Buy a cupholder? Finish your drink before you drive? Drive with one hand and hold the drink with the other? Switch to a drink that will fit in the square hole? Put silly putty in the bottom of it to hold your drink?



I am also sick of any friend I have that is more then 150# not being able to get into the backseat w/o a shoe horn. The two door part is OK, because I knew that going in, but the fact that the seats don't even move to let someone in is kind of lame.

The passenger seat moves forward... open the passenger door instead of letting them out your side.




My windows continue to go up at the pace of a snail, even after having Isuzu inspect them under warranty and tell me they are fine.

Spray silicon from the autoparts store on the tracks SOON before your windows break. The rubber tracks need to be lubed up NOW!





The engine power is nice, but its not any faster then a Trailblazer or most V8 sized pickups. I do have to admit it "feels" faster, but that could just be due to the smaller size and engine noise. Anyway, enough rants.
Your crazy... the VX is faster than a Trailblazer and most other cars for that matter, and feels MUCH faster! Have you ever driven one of those? They are great trucks but they aren't sprinters that's for sure. Plus they cost twice what you paid for your VX.

[autox-racer]

I did the same thing today in the 10 inches of snow, 4 high was causing slipping because rear would lose traction and get sideways just a little and then tod would kick and everything was ok until the next slick spot.

so i put in 4 low and it did MUCH better. Is there a way to put a switch in to make 4 high with tod locked at 100%?

[Maugan_VX]

Holy crap

Wednesday1/19/05, Raleigh NC got hit by a "freak" snowstorm. In the matter of 2 hours, the whole city was under about 2" of solid ice. The roads were horrible, highways shutdown, schoolbusses couldn't get kids home, so they spent the night in schools. Commutes that normally took 30 minutes, took 10 hours. Check out some of the coverage.
http://www.wral.com/news/4117411/detail.html#

The VX served as the paddy wagon for coworkers that were to nervous to drive home (all women, I might add). While others were burning tread and spinning out, the TOD + LSD + Winter Mode + upkept and properly rotated tires kept me from spinning a tire once. I was in as much control as I could have been on SOLID ICE. NOTE this is MUCH different than driving on snow. I couldn't have been more happy with the performance of the vehicle. After having driven a trooper (albeit with 33x12.50 "widefoot" tires) and a damn M-class mercedes in similar conditions, I was more than happy with the VX in the wintery conditions, as were all my passengers who were like "I've never seen this car on the road before, is it safe?"


Maybe you've been trying to burn up to many civics at the stoplights.

Oh and MrTew has got it nailed. Bravo.

[webdog]

In Nov. 2002 I bought my first VX. I drove in snow the next day. Scarrrrrrry is the word for my experience. Bought Bridgestone Blizzaks the next day. The stock tires are not snow tires.

TOD is fantastic in snow with Snow tires. There are many brands and types to choose from. Air down for deep snow, ice, mud, off-road or sand for additional traction. Tires are expensive, but so is your insurance deductable and the increased rates after you crash into someone. :cool:

[ISCE]

I just got back from my first snow experience here in MD with the Nittos... I thought they did a great job. As someone noted way back, turning felt a little more like sliding (weight and tire width I am sure), but had ZERO problems going forward anywhere I wanted to go. I'm from CO and driven in a lot of snow conditions all my life, and the VX is STILL the best on the snow. I am not sure why some just don't have good VX snow traction.

I will be in WI all next week, and always get some FORD pos that I have to try and get around the snow in. The VX does so much better, maybe I am just used to it now, but no complaints here. I was also able to easily back into my drive (slight incline) this snow, I was not able to do that with my stock tires before.

Jay

[mbeach]

Having spent the last two winters with Subaru's symetrical all-wheel-drive, I'd have to say that the VX is a bit off the mark when it comes to a transparent AWD system. The slip-then-grip thing is a little unnerving, so I am adjusting my driving style.

Today I will be researching a 4hi mod. My question is,
"Why did Isuzu not include 4hi on the VX in the first place?"
There must be some reason, when other TOD equipped vehicles of the era had SOTF/2hi/4hi options, and the VX was left without.

[Maugan_VX]

you shouldn't be slipping in the first place.

that winter button is there for a reason.

If it works on ice, then it would definitely work in snow.

[mrtew]

you shouldn't be slipping in the first place.
that winter button is there for a reason.
If it works on ice, then it would definitely work in snow.

You right in a way, but anyone can creep away from a stopsign without slipping all over the road. I think what people are looking for is the ability to drive fast in the snow like Jeeps and Suburbans are observed doing. That ability is gained by shifting into 4WD low. I still would like someone to answer why they don't just do that? I mean the winter button is a PITA the way it slows you down so much and keeps going off for no reason, but the 4WD lever is FUN with a capital FUN!

[Maugan_VX]

are you trying to win a drag race in the snow?

I mean, you can go "fast" but jesus take your time getting there.


I mean the winter button is a PITA the way it slows you down so much and keeps going off for no reason

You do understand the reasoning behind the winter button right? It keeps you in a higher gear so your lead-foot wont cause you to slip and slide everywhere until you get up to speed when you wont need it anymore.

[autox-racer]

are you trying to win a drag race in the snow?

I mean, you can go "fast" but jesus take your time getting there.



You do understand the reasoning behind the winter button right? It keeps you in a higher gear so your lead-foot wont cause you to slip and slide everywhere until you get up to speed when you wont need it anymore.

well i would like to be able to do 45 mph in the snow and in 4lo that is high rpm and probably not that good on the drivetrain. so a 4hi would allow me to go 45mph w/o wheel slip and at low rpm.

[mrtew]

are you trying to win a drag race in the snow?
Yeah, I kinda am. I do use the winter button for pulling out around corners and appreciate what it does, but it's not what people are looking for when they see Jeeps etc take off from intersections like there's no snow at all and we are crawling away with no power in third gear.


I mean, you can go "fast" but jesus take your time getting there.
Good advice I'm sure, Dad, but I'd like that to be my choice not my truck's!


You do understand the reasoning behind the winter button right? It keeps you in a higher gear so your lead-foot wont cause you to slip and slide everywhere until you get up to speed when you wont need it anymore.
Yeah it's great for poking around icy corners but when you want to go fast 4WD low works like a charm. It sure helps the braking too because it locks the wheels together so the ABS doesn't kick in all the time.




well i would like to be able to do 45 mph in the snow and in 4lo that is high rpm and probably not that good on the drivetrain. so a 4hi would allow me to go 45mph w/o wheel slip and at low rpm.
I see your point and if a 4WD high was possible I'm sure I'd try it out. I don't think 45 in low is going to wear you out at all for a few days though... It's not like you're going to be near the redline or anything. Now if you're driving to Chicago or something it might be a little much, but around town it's fantastic. Hope you figure it out... I'll sign up.

[UNEVEN THOUGHTS]

It's been snowing here for the last 26 hours and I've gone out to the store 3 times. I used the "Winter" button to get up out of my driveway and then that was that. I have a completly stock VX and althought the back end gave me a couple kicks and I had the occasional floaty steering it wasn't anything unmanageable. I agree that there is room for improvement but you need to look at what else we get with our VX. IMHO we have the best, most interesting vehicle ever made and it was limited production no less! If the performence in snow bothers you that much why doesn't sombody run out to there garage and start fudgeing together something to fix the problem? If I knew more about cars and wiring I'd jump at the chance to contribute something to like this to the Board. Anyway... it's just my .02
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/858Winter2.JPG

[Maugan_VX]

Ok, I'm going to stop trying to reason with someone who wants to drive recklessly in poor driving conditions.

The point of 4wd and TOD in general is to make driving managable in poor traction conditions, not give reckless ******* a carte-blanche to compensate for some inadequecies against a jeep in snow.

I keep wondering why my insurance is so high. :eyeroll:


Oh, heres the reason why jeeps can do what they do:
GVW

VX: 3955
Jeep: 5150

More than 1000lbs pushing those tires to the ground.

[mrtew]

Ok, I'm going to stop trying to reason with someone who wants to drive recklessly in poor driving conditions.
I doubt that! :-]


The point of 4wd and TOD in general is to make driving managable in poor traction conditions, not give reckless ******** a carte-blanche to compensate for some inadequecies against a jeep in snow.
You're always very antagonistic.




Oh, heres the reason why jeeps can do what they do:
GVW VX: 3955 Jeep: 5150 More than 1000lbs pushing those tires to the ground.
I disagree. I think it's because they shift into 4WD low instead of counting on TOD and winter buttons. I don't know if you actually read the posts you reply to but I'm telling you the VX can keep up with a Jeep just fine if you shift that lever.

The TOD isn't doing it for people or this thread would never have been started and lasted this long. Also I don't think weight is the answer because I always notice little skinny tired econocars like old Escorts etc going in the snow even faster and straighter than the Jeeps. That front-wheel-drive is the bomb... probably one of the reasons that locking our front wheels power on helps so much!

[psychos2]

i have a few opinions on this topic. one is the limited slip diff.i think this is actually part of the problem with the rear sliding and the front pushing.normally when one wheel is spinning the other is helping to keep the the rear from sliding.in our case the diff kicks in and causes the rear to slide because both wheels are spinning.
the same holds true for the pushing.when both rear wheels are turning they tend to push the front wheels.when you are not in the snow and you turn the wheels turn at different speeds, when they are spinning in the snow they are working like a locked diff and push the front wheels.like when you are in 4 lo on dry pavement.
also i think the short wheelbase does not help matters.i think that a combination of all these things cause the problems some a having.i have just learned to deal with it and compensate for it.and i found that not using power mode helps and using winter mode helps also.and if the conditions get to bad i use 4 lo . just my 2 cents. shawn

[mbeach]

I agree with Shawn,
That tight rear diff tends to act like a locked unit very quickly = bad on ice, for the reasons that he mentioned.
Again, it just requires a little relearning on my part.


Maugan VX-
I have only been a member of this board for a short time, but your posts have already gotten my attention. I took the liberty of researching your history, and I found very few helpful/informative posts -most were inflammatory and unnecessary. I'm afraid that we can't all be as perfect as you claim to be, and I believe that you should re-think the manner in which you choose to "share your knowledge". If I were a moderator of this site, not only would you have been warned/suspended/banned by now, I would've sent thugs to your home to steal your vehicle.
Don't bother replying to this post, I've officially put you on my "useless ******" list.

:)

[Maugan_VX]

I like how all my relevant posts disappeared from this thread.

[Moncha]

I like how all my relevant posts disappeared from this thread.
Not sure of what you mean, no posts have been deleted from this thread. Since the board has re-opened, ALL deletions are soft deletions only making them invisible to regular users and only I have the means to physically remove them. Being that the activity on this thread began again after the upgrade, I can see whether a post had been removed.