Possible second glitch in LS1 conversion...

[coachreed]

Yesterday while cleaning things up in the garage I took about two minutes to slip the motor back into the engine bay. The motor slips PLENTY far down into the bay, but it seems that the oil pan is still hitting the axle housing some... not letting it totally go into place. I have posted my quetion and concerns over in the LS1Tech conversion forum and hoping for a speedy answer.

What I am hoping for is either another version of stock LS1 pan that has a slightly smaller sump area...

a little less like this........ [__/----
and a little more like ..... [_/-----

I know the sump in the stock VX motor is pretty small front to back, but is wider out to one side. I have am wondering if I can either find a pan with smaller sump or if I may need to have the stock pan modified. If I have it modified to get my clearance from the axle housing, I may need to have it widened to compensate for the lost volume. Not sure.

Anyway, thought I'd post it and see if anyone here has any good ideas. I have done some searching for LS1 oil pan options... no luck thus far. If you got suggestions, PLEASE lemme know. I'm probably a couple weeks from being able to get under the VX or do any serious wrenching... so I need to get prepared. Thanks!

[VX922]

Coach
You have mail.
Cutting and welding of the pan might be needed you might consider cutting off lower sump from VX engine and weld it on the LS1 oil pan.
If you are concerned about reduced oil volume, a prelubricator may do the trick of holding extra oil for you.
VX922

[coachreed]

Here is a link to my thread over on LS1Tech.com...

http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151802

This way we have all the info for future reference...

I have seen pictures of a modified F-body (firebird/camaro) oil pan... no problem... I'll slide under the VX sometime this week even if it kills me... and see just how far it needs to be modified. I'll also try to take pictures of the clearance of oil pan to axle as well as F-body exhaust manifold to frame and upper a-arm mounting location.

TTYL!


Coach!

[Hotsauce]

Dry Sump.

John C.

[VX922]

Coach check this out
conversion (http://www.hotrod.com/projectbuild/113_0308_power/index1.html)
VX922

[coachreed]

I was pointed to THIS (http://www.hotrodlane.cc/onlinecatalog/catalogpage61.jpg) page by a LS1Tech member... towards the bottom of the page, there are drawings of the F-body, Vette, and Truck oil pans... the truck pan has a slightly deeper looking sump, but it is also 2.75 inches towards the back of the pan... which gives MUCH more room... I'm gonna do some looking around... see if I can get ym hand on one of those. Stay tuned...

John-
I thought about dry sump, but THAT is an expensive proposition... and one I'm not real familiar with. I expect you have to have some kind of external sump pump whether it be electric or mechanically drive by the belt... not sure what kind of room I have for other accessories. I will continue looking at that route though... would DEFINITELY take care of ALL clearance questions! lol

TTYL!

Randy

[coachreed]

Slid under the VX today and assessed the situation a little. I have decided that I am going to trim about 1" of the front of my oil pan sump area and will also trim off an angled swatch from the passenger side front corner of the pan... the 1" from across the front is to add just a touch of extra clearance for the axle tube, and the little angled swatch will be to help clearn the third member a little better. I just don't want to torque that motor over too much and bang up against any other part of the drivetran.

I found out today that my adaptor plate for the tranny-transfer case was shipped today out of Utah... look to expect it in 2-3 days... and so next weekend... its ON! I'm gonna tear the tranny apart and get the new output shaft in place and will hopefully mate the tranny and transfer case up. Then I can get a closer look at how the output may or may not clear the tranny oil pan. Stay tuned!

TTYL!

Coach!

[WyrreJ]

Take it easy - a couple of days ago you said it would be weeks before you were healed enough to get under the car. I ripped up a major tendon in my leg over a year and a half ago and have had a couple of replases since because I overestimated how well it had healed up. I'm only now getting to the point where walking is usually pain-free, never mind being back at full-strength. After a year and a half of suffering with this, believe me when I say you don't want to do ANYTHING to over-stress that injury.

[Joe_Black]

Second for a dry sump. Costs a bit more (okay, quite a bit more) but the bonuses are major.

[coachreed]

WyrreJ-
Thanks for the concern and recommendation... I know what your talking about. I have gotten comfortable a few times now... comfortable enough that I didn't think when just rolling over in bed... lateral pressure REALLY hurts! lol I have had to change certain excercises in PT because of it... I won't overdue it... if I have to put more than 5lbs of pressure on the left knee (laterally)... FORGET IT! NOT WORTH IT! I have some friends hopefully lined up for things... luckily the hoist does the work for me. All I have to do right now is tell it where to go!

Later!

Coach... I mean Randy (I often forget who I really am) ;)
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/406banner.jpg (http://www.geocities.com/ironmanvx2000)
Undergoing LS1 Conversion as we speak!
Click Image to Visit My Website!

[coachreed]

Originally posted by Joe_Black
Second for a dry sump. Costs a bit more (okay, quite a bit more) but the bonuses are major.

OK, the cost for the pan alone from what I'm finding is around $800-$1000 alone... that isn't with any extra support like scavenge pump and plumbing which I can only assume I will ned as I have never dealt with dry sump... soooo... what are the bonuses? Just curious.

Later!

Coach... I mean Randy (I often forget who I really am) ;)
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/406banner.jpg (http://www.geocities.com/ironmanvx2000)
Undergoing LS1 Conversion as we speak!
Click Image to Visit My Website!

[Joe_Black]

You can get a local machine/welding shop to fab a pan for you in aluminum for pretty reasonable prices so you can configure it to your particular needs and hose routing requirements. Here's a basic excerpt on wet vs. dry sumps:

In a wet sump, the oil pump sucks oil from the bottom of the oil pan through a tube, and then pumps it to the rest of the engine.

In a dry sump, extra oil is stored in a tank outside the engine rather than in the oil pan. There are at least two oil pumps in a dry sump -- one pulls oil from the sump and sends it to the tank, and the other takes oil from the tank and sends it to lubricate the engine. The minimum amount of oil possible remains in the engine.

Dry sump systems have several important advantages over wet sumps:

Because a dry sump does not need to have an oil pan big enough to hold the oil under the engine, the main mass of the engine can be placed lower in the vehicle. This helps lower the center of gravity and can also help aerodynamics (by allowing a lower hoodline).

The oil capacity of a dry sump can be as big as you want. The tank holding the oil can be placed anywhere on the vehicle.

In a wet sump, turning, braking and acceleration can cause the oil to pool on one side of the engine. This sloshing can dip the crankshaft into the oil as it turns or uncover the pump's pick-up tube.

Excess oil around the crankshaft in a wet sump can get on the shaft and cut horsepower. Some people claim improvements of as much as 15 horsepower by switching to a dry sump.

The disadvantage of the dry sump is the increased complexity and cost from the extra pump and the tank -- but that's a small price to pay for such big benefits!

[azskyrider]

If the Dry sump is going to cost in the neighborhood of the pan then go for it! If you plan on using the VX for offroading, you have more HP, you plan to keep it for ever, and it will solve the clearance problem then I would vote DRY SUMP. Better to do it right then having to take the engine out again. :( I have done that too many times on my race bike to now when it comes to Mods....."I don't go half A**"
Better to wait and save money for the extra mod I think. But if the Mod is not needed then save your Cash.

P.S. by no means does this reference Coach. The half a** part. :)

[coachreed]

Originally posted by azskyrider
blah blah blah... Better to wait and save money for the extra mod I think. But if the Mod is not needed then save your Cash.

P.S. by no means does this reference Coach. The half a** part. :)

Unfortunately, when it comes to cash, I'm kinda screwed as it is... I have been out of work for three weeks already with NO disability insurance... and I have to wait for my doctors clearance to return to my job or place limitations on me... and THAT is on April 19th! Soooo... basically... what I'm saying is, I don't have a ton of choices when it comes to high dollar issues! I also have ONE vehicle... which is my VX... and so with my borrowing a vehicle from my mom and her boyfriend, I'm starting to fell REALLY self-conscience... so I need to get'er running soon! lol

IF anyone has a beater they want to donate to the cause on the other hand, that would buy me some time... you can mail said car to 1220 NE Grand, Lee's Summit, MO 64086... ;pb; ;Db; OK, maybe not! lmao

Later!

[azskyrider]

coach!
I donated my old Civic which was a klunker but reliable transportation last year so I could use as a tax write off this year.

best wishes on a safe and speedy recovery.

[coachreed]

Okey Dokey... oil pan is back from the welders... I won't get to fit it back to the motor until tomorrow at best... then I can test fit to the VX to see if it was successful... lets keep our fingers crossed... check the link below... go to "Latest News" or whatever I called it... anyway, there are before and after pictures of the oil pan... total cost: 2 hours... $120... it is welded inside and out... I have been told by more than one person that the quality of aluminum castings causes poris surfaces when welded... the welder did both sides to insure good stength and also to insure no leaks... check it out... I'll post pictures of the installed motor... as long as it clears! lol

http://community.webshots.com/user/ironmanvx2000

Later!

Coach... I mean Randy (I often forget who I really am) ;)
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/406banner.jpg (http://www.geocities.com/ironmanvx2000)
Undergoing LS1 Conversion as we speak!
Click Image to Visit My Website!

[nater]

Wow, the welds on that pan look awesome! Like a stack of quarters!

Looks like it should work great; it appears that the oil can still run back to the sump without a problem, and capacity is likely only a little less than stock.

Nate