Intake idea?

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

I was reading some stuff over at the Axiom section of Club VMAG and came upon a member who made a custom intake for his Axiom which has the 3.5L. He also makes/sells filters and offers powdercoating of products. Anybody have any thoughts on this?

http://club.vmag.com/ubb/Forum13/HTML/000215.html

http://www.morgan-tec.com/index.htm

http://www.morgan-tec.com/intakes.htm

http://www.morgan-tec.com/filters.htm

http://www.morgan-tec.com/powdercoat.htm

[xdfarrx]

They look really good. I emailed him.
thanks for the headup Jolly

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

Originally posted by xdfarrx
They look really good. I emailed him.
thanks for the headup Jolly


Looks like your going to be our lab rat...lol. I think its going to fit fine.

He also sells a custom muffler for the Axiom which might be another option for the VX.

Also found this guy's Axiom here and he is developing a turbo for the 3.5L.

http://www.sounddomain.com/memberpage/382403

[WormGod]

What interests me the most if the fact that he has the ram air intake without the guts for a real ram air unit. With many of us looking into getting the C/F ram air scoop, and this guy already being 1/2 through that process, maybe he would like to team up and create an operational unit for it. Can't be TOO MUCH of a difference at all between the autos.

Just a thought, since it seems he has the ability to do some crafting.

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

I think you should send him the links to threads here at VX.info concerning your projects and perhaps he could benefit/contribute in some fashion. If nothing else..he seems to be on the same page as far as interest in developing performance/visual asthetics for his Isuzu.

[WormGod]

Not a bad idea. I just may do that if others are interested. I would really like to see the Carbon Werks come through first to see how it can all be set up. ;)

[Mr. I-MAN]

welds on an intake tube how ghetto! besides looking cheap the sharp bend with welded angle will create turbulence in the are flow and you will lose horsepower. Ever hear of a tube bender which leaves no sharp angles. I would put this on my VX even if it was given to me for free.

Crap design

DON'T BUY!

[Mr. I-MAN]

TYPO I MEAN "I WOULD NOT PUT THIS ON":D

[WormGod]

Man, somebody woke up on the wrong side of the bed today. :p

I agree, it is pretty cheap, but intuitive. If he were to fab something with the proper dimensions and form, it could always be sent to a fully operational shop for final design and fabrication. Gotta start with apples and oranges before we can move up to steak and potatos. :D

Heck, I was simply gonna fab the ram air guts with PVC and sheetmetal and then have a fab shop produce a final, working product.

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

Originally posted by Mr. I-MAN
welds on an intake tube how ghetto! besides looking cheap the sharp bend with welded angle will create turbulence in the are flow and you will lose horsepower. Ever hear of a tube bender which leaves no sharp angles. I would put this on my VX even if it was given to me for free.

Crap design

DON'T BUY!

I think he ran into a snag trying to get a radius bent that sharp in order to miss the fan/radiater hose. I quote this from his site:

"And here is my intake i built, it is 304 stainless tubing i cut and sectioned because no one in my area could bend the radius i needed to not hit the fan."

I remember watching a show on the making of the Harley-Davidson V-Rod where they wanted to bend both the frame and exhaust in sharper radii than had ever been tried and wound up collapsing the tubes...then they welded it "on the proto-type" as this guy did. Eventually, they instituted a high-tech process known as hydro-forming where water is sent into the tubing at high pressure as the tubing is bent to keep it from crimping/collapsing.

I agree that the welds may not be the most asthetic but I haven't seen too many options in this department. I thought the Don Moody Intake that wormgod has looks nice myself...but several had issues with it. If I am not mistaken it is not a one piece intake like this one is.

But I do value your opinion, which is what I personally am looking for.

I was concerned about the metal intake absorbing heat from the radiator/hose region. I think that the powder-coated option could help insulate it somewhat.....how much I am not sure. I also think without a feasible induction layout like Wormgod is speaking of...this is mainly a visual piece...whether one likes it or not.


PS--- Here is a handy pic of the "Don Moody/Hotshot" intake installed on Wormgods fine ride. Pic is from his website:

http://wormgod.8m.com/Images/Ebony/vx_intake.jpg

[johnnyapollo]

Actually the "Don Moody" (actually made by Hot Shot) has two welds, immediately in front of the intake, then the rest is bent into shape. Because it was designed for a Trooper, there wasn't enough clearance for the lower hood of the VX, so it had to be cut in half and rotated. I'm thinking that if Hot Shot can bend it, two welds would still be enough (same bends would be there, only the tube would be rotated to clear the hood).

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=438&papass=&sort=4

FYI, there was little performance gain by the intake itself, the addition of the PV muffler makes all the difference.

-- Best, John

[Joe_Black]

The design with the welded tube actually won't produce much more turbulence than a smooth section tube. The key is consistent diameter and no internal obstructions. From the photos you can tell he's using a TIG process and I'm sure a good inside finishing. In fact, that type of tube construction is used commonly in professional motorsport and aviation. I've seen plenty of tangential exhaust systems made like that.

Yes, hydroforming or some sort of composite would be better, but that's a helluva nice job and some good ingenuity. Plus, it appears he's got the dyno paper to prove it. Oh, and parts in stock!;Do;

[xdfarrx]

I am going to order one.... For sure's the axiom engine and intake fitment is the same as ours... Please confirm. If so I'm doing it. The stainless mesh intake is really tasty-

[xdfarrx]

I read the above threads... Funny if you look at some spec really cars, and race built stuff it has welds, and doesn't neccessarily look that pretty. Pretty sometimes doesn't perform....I guess to those who think its crap shouldn't get it. As a guy who tracks streetbikes, doess some scca stuff, I always like to defer to data, and dyno's. and then it always will come back to rider, driver. I've seen guys on 600's clean guys on full liter bikes because of there riding/driving skills. As for any mods, given no one makes intakes for us, custom, 'hand' work, always is desirable to me and the vx's at large that need it. This intake fitment and my cold airbox redux is perfect for what I need on my car. Mike seems to be a car guy and that in itself is enough credential for me to have his work in my car. He's not some dood spitting stories, delays or commitments, because following Jooly's email, I went to him.....Carbon is really cool but performance will always trump looks, especially being I'm not one for hanging out with my hood open ...

[Tone]

Any metallic tube will impart more heat to the air flowing through it than plastic or CF.

[johnnyapollo]

On that note, I'm sure that the intake will fit, however I'm not sure about the hood clearance issue. The Axiom looks to have a longer hood and taller profile. Someone would need to purchase and be the the test case.

As for performance, a CF intake would probably be superior to a metal one, merely due to heat transfer into the metal tubing.
I'm personally planning on putting a CF intake on the SC when I finally get it installed.

-- Best, John

[Joe_Black]

Any metallic tube will impart more heat to the air flowing through it than plastic or CF.

Good point. Using heat-wrap for the intake would be an inexpensive solution at about $35 for the entire run. For those serious about heat control you can also wrap (different product) your headers and exhaust downtubes. Pretty labor intensive, more like tedious, but well worth the effort.

[xdfarrx]

Ceramic coating I also believe would be a feesable option... hypercoat, et al.

[Dallas4u]

What about a high-heat powder coat? Does powder coating insulate much?

[Joe_Black]

Nope, powder coat doesn't insulate at all, otherwise you couldn't bake it on. Best bang for the buck: Heat wrap. Although a nearly equal economical yet better looking solution would be to have an anodized (or polished) aluminum heat shield. Essentially an outer tube slightly larger in diameter mounted with thermally insulative spacer material, like nylon or phenolic.

[tomcat837]

I am very interested in this mod, but know nothing about it. Could I just leave the factory tubing and replace the filter housing with one of those fancy filters???
Enlighten me PLEASE!!!

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

Originally posted by xdfarrx
Ceramic coating I also believe would be a feesable option... hypercoat, et al.

I'm checking out options on this idea....I know I heard of a place near me that does this to headers and various components...

I found this pricey option on the internet:

http://www.chillylizard.com/


what's nice is it says it accepts topcoat so you could paint (or possibly powdercoat?) over it to your cosmetic liking.

Actually...if this concern was voiced to Morgan-tec perhaps they would be willing to incorporate a process of one form or another towards insulating the intake.

I could imagine an intake for me as being coated either with ceramic or some other insulation and then powdercoated with aluminum (listed in specialty colors of Morgan-tec) and capped off with a stainless "red anodized" filter.

[xdfarrx]

Jolly-
Checkout hypercoat.com, and if you speak with Mike maybe refer him to them. They did my snowmobile pipes. As you can see on the site their stuff is pretty smooth. I would just as soon send the plenum to them for coating. It cost me 75$ for my triple pipe from my sled.

[SGT.BATGUANO]

Originally posted by tomcat837
I am very interested in this mod, but know nothing about it. Could I just leave the factory tubing and replace the filter housing with one of those fancy filters???
Enlighten me PLEASE!!!

It's been reported to make it louder and maybe a little faster. For the best effect get a better exhaust to go with it.

[tomcat837]

Yes, but how do I do it?

[morgan-tec]

Well i seem to have started quite the little dispute here. Hello, my name is Mike Morgan and i am the owner and builder of the Axiom intake in question. Lets see if i can answer all the ?s here


1. If i have been informed correctly the intake will fit on the vehicross, now the hood clearence may be an issue but i am willing to build a "test" unit for sale to the first person intrested for a discounted price. Then we will go from there.

2. As far as the design, as i have been quoted on here i could not get a tight enough radius bent anywhere locally. And also as stated earlier in the thread, a LOT of racing tream in both automotive and motorcycle industries use the sectioning method of making a pipe"bend". My entire Tigcraft Titanium exhaust on my bike is sectioned. The dispute over turbliance is technically a good point, but in the real world of hard dyno #s, a mandrell bent tube vs. mine is less than 1hp difference at the wheels.

3. The argument of heat dissapation is a valid point but remember you are sucking hot air from inside the engine bay in the first place. The only time i personally would be concerned with this problem is if i was running an actual cold air intake, such as air from the fender or under the bumper. I do offer powder coating and i can do high temp also, this does insulate more than normal powdercoat. The cost on powder is $40 and high temp is $50.

4. to answer the ? as to why i never made my hood scoop a functional ram air is that is not what i installed it for. Future plans for my Axiom include a Garrett T3/T4 single turbo and i installed the scoop to help "flush" the extra heat out of the engine bay.

5. a little on me and my company. I have been welding professionally for 10 yrs now and am very creative in my projects. I also work part time at a local speed shop building custom turbo kits for pretty much anything the customer wants, Vipers, Lexus, sandrails, etc. I started my own little company building custom application mufflers and intakes. I also sell stainless steel mesh cone filters as discussed earlier in the thread.

i think i hit most of the points, if i missed any or you have any more ?s please let me know. The price for the intake is $200 complete with filter ( choice of color for filter) and shipped. This intake and filter netted me 10.2 hp at the wheels in Co on our new dyno and a huge increase in throttle responce. I also build a smaller intake that uses the stock plactic elbow, this one is $75 with filter and shipped. So please let me know if you are intrested or have and constructive critisism.

Thanks Mike
;Dr;

[Dallas4u]

Welcome MIke... I think we all look forward to working with you on what ever you can provide our vehicles!

[Joe_Black]

Welcome to the board Mike! I'd be interested in working with you on test fitting your intake on the VX. I'm working on an entire carbon-fiber hood project for the VX and your product may compliment that endeavour as it will be incorporating an induction inlet. However that's a ways down the road as I'm currently just getting the permitting for the shop where all this will be created!;Do;

In any case, definitely sign me up for the intake guinea-pig spot!

[MZ-N10]

hmm.....turbo anyone?
________
Head shop (http://headshop.net/)

[xdfarrx]

I can say from the follow up I have had from Mike he seems to be on point and his honesty also makes me feel even better about his work. Cynicism is reasonable as it seems WE all love to get excited over mods but sometimes (people get over on us) it gets the better of us, as some group buys and other stuff has lead me to believe. I'm getting an intake from Mike as soon as it makes sense. (I just bought a new R1 streetbike, got some sticker shock still) Thanks for chiming in mike and look forward to rocking your intake.
Dylan

[tomcat837]

Mike, I want to be the guinea pig for your project test fitting. If not selected, what is included with the cone for the factory tubing? and how does it install?

Thank you,
Julio

[Capri]

hmmm...definitely interested if it fits and hood clearance isn't a problem. :)

[WormGod]

Sounds good Mike. Welcome to your neighboring ISUZU community. :)

Your project sounds interesting and I will be watching closely. Not necessarily looking into a new intake (currently have the HotShot intake) but I personally am attempting to design a ram air kit for the VX, pending arrival of the C/F induction inserts. Please, keep these boards posted with your updates and mods, as I am sure you could gain some profit from this community as well.

[Mr. I-MAN]

Hey Mike no offense about THE GHetto comment, bro. Having a degree in Aviation w/ minors in flight and airway science I tend to get wrapped around the axle about issues like turbulent airflow.

:D sorry

[Joe_Black]

a degree in Aviation w/ minors in flight and airway science
ERAU?

[Mr. I-MAN]

ERAU????:confused:

[Mr. I-MAN]

I GOT IT "EMBRY RIDDLE" NO I WENT TO SIU. OUR FLIGHT TEAM ALWAYS KICKED EMBRY'S ***

[morgan-tec]

Well thanks for the warm welcome guys, for now it looks like Joe Black has first dibs on the test intake. If he decides not to go with it i will go down the post list for people. Lets see if i can answer the rest of the ?s

1. Fitting my filters on the stock intake is really pretty easy, all you need to do is strech the rubber inlet ring on the filter to fit on the intake side of your MAF. Thats really about it, you will need to come up with some sort of mount support, which is included in my smaller intake kit, or you can try it.

Please let me know if anyone is intrested in any of my products, if i get enough intrest i may be willing to do a member discount when you order mufflers or intakes from me. Thanks again guys for the welcome, and i will be by regularly to chime in and keep everybody updated on my projects.;Dr;

[Capri]

Joe Black, let me know how it goes!

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

Welcome to the site Mike...glad to have your first-hand expertise aboard!


Originally posted by Jolly Roger VX'er
I could imagine an intake for me as being coated either with ceramic or some other insulation and then powdercoated with aluminum (listed in specialty colors of Morgan-tec) and capped off with a stainless "red anodized" filter.

I guess my concerns for insulating the intake from underhood heat is more for what I have in mind for future mods.

I was hoping to combine your product with either:

1) a method of ram-air, or cowl induction (as yet undecided) such as a future product from Joe Black or Wormgod, etc...

2) as you did with your Axiom...venting heat out of the Underhood area and (hopefully) sucking in cooler air via the intake which would be insulated to allow the air to remain cool by not transferring heat from nearby components such as radiater..hose...engine.

3) putting a heat shield of some sort between the air filter and the engine (see photo below) to entice a cooler zone and having that air stay cool as it makes its way to the engine:

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/82scedvx3-med.jpg

[drdavidr4u]

Hi Mike,
Write me up as another member interested in purchasing an intake once you have worked the "fit" out!
Dave:)

[morgan-tec]

Originally posted by Jolly Roger VX'er
Welcome to the site Mike...glad to have your first-hand expertise aboard!



I guess my concerns for insulating the intake from underhood heat is more for what I have in mind for future mods.

I was hoping to combine your product with either:

1) a method of ram-air, or cowl induction (as yet undecided) such as a future product from Joe Black or Wormgod, etc...

2) as you did with your Axiom...venting heat out of the Underhood area and (hopefully) sucking in cooler air via the intake which would be insulated to allow the air to remain cool by not transferring heat from nearby components such as radiater..hose...engine.

3) putting a heat shield of some sort between the air filter and the engine (see photo below) to entice a cooler zone and having that air stay cool as it makes its way to the engine:

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/82scedvx3-med.jpg

I completly understand, i too looked into building an airbox type partition for the filter but decided against it just because i don't believe it would really make that much difference when the turbo is installed. And by the way my intake will be for sale as used when i get the turbo up and running. It really would not be that hard to make mine a true ram air setup, all i would need to do is build a catch box that sealed against the hood and then a different filter design into the intake. Oh well i think i will go for the real forces induction soon.;Dr; ;Dr; ;Dr;

[tomcat837]

Are the small filters on your website, the ones for 25 dollars, the ones that fit the VX and the factory hose?

Julio

[Joe_Black]

Thanks Mike! I'll be sure to post a full review with pics once it's up and running. ;Do;

[morgan-tec]

Originally posted by tomcat837
Are the small filters on your website, the ones for 25 dollars, the ones that fit the VX and the factory hose?

Julio

Yes they will fit on your MAF sensor thats where you slide it on