Opinions please.

[jayfotos]

Ok, I went though a rough install with my SC just like my buddy here autox-racer. See his notes-

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4355

With my intall complete, I'm happy with it's preformance. But, there is a loose end. If you did'nt know the sc kit comes pre-assembled and is a "bolt on"...HA! After the 12 hour install @ $70 an hour I had a hefty bill(mind you, I had someother light things done as well, new pads, oil change
and new bulbs).
After a few days of driving I noticed a leak coming from the cone assembly, see this post if you missed my other thread-

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4381

After seeing what you guys come up with, talking to my shop guy I contacted Alpine. I sent them the photos so they can better understand the problem. We came to the conclusion that the cone assembly was not properly sealed(witch Alpine does for their pre-assembly).
In order to fix it, the cone assembley has to be taken apart, resealed and put back together.
In turn, back in the shop @ $70 an hour.

So, who's at fault?

Am I?

Should I have to pay for this or should Alpine bite the bullet and cover the cost?

I told the tech at Alpine I don't feel responsable and I don't want to dump more money into this thing for something that is clearly Alpines doing. He could'nt answer that question and I have to talk to Jon Conchie(the guy who sold it to me) on Monday.

So, what'da ya think?

Thanks- Jay

[Dallas4u]

Did you find out about a warranty before you bought it from them?

My opinion is that, if it definitely was a faulty seal from Alpine, then they should provide some sort of compensation for fixing the problem.

I would like to state that most of us did NOT have a problem with our kits, so implying that the kit not being "bolt on" isn't really fair. For the price and the amount of assembly already done I believe it is a good deal. Had it been less assembled it may have been more costly to have a shop do the work for you, even though YOU may have been able to avoid your current problems. Again, most of us didn't have these problems with our kits. ***** happens sometimes, you know? ;)

Personally, I would say they owe you some sort of compensation for what ever happens with the leaky seal.

[Hotsauce]

According to most warranties on aftermarket parts, they are responsable only for the materials, not incidental labor. This varies from state to state by law. Sucks, but thats the way it is.

John C.

[azskyrider]

I would recommend that you first talk to the shop who installed the SC to see if they can offer some assitance in lowering their price per hour. With this information you can then plan your talks with Alpine. State who you are and the VX forum. Members here are interested in the upgrade but I am sure that their decision will ride on the customer support. Be kind and be prepared and willing to negotiate. Will they pay 100%? Expect not.

If the shop offers you a discount rate then you now have a baseline to start negotiating with Alpine. Don't tell them the new discount rate just negotiate either a labor per hour fee or a total cost fee. Hopefully they will bite for the hour fee and if you get your negotiated Lower price fee then you basically got Alpine to pay for all the fees to redo the work.

Last option is that it might be cheaper to fly a VX member to PHX than to pay for those Labor costs.

Before talking to Alpine I would also contact TONE. He might be able to help your situation and since he deals with them he might inform you what Alpine's response might be.

I hope it works out. BTW I asked you before which shop you went to. Maybe I missed the response but could you reply again?

For the rest of the members thinking about SC I would recommend going through TONE even if it is more $$. Call it a peace of mind but I doubt Alpine would have had a problem with TONE calling.


Best of luck,


P.S. Just noticed TONE's B-day today. Happy B-DAY!

[jayfotos]

I doubt the shop will offer a lower rate, it's not there fault and there is no reason why they should bend over backwards.
We narrowed down the problem, does'nt matter who fixes it as long as it gets fixed. But I don't feel I'm lyable, I already dumped a crapload of money into this thing.

I'm not saying it's a poor product, but when your spending 3k and the instructions are printouts that are missing important information along with missing and broken parts, just does'nt seem like a very perfessional company.

Remember, this is my experience I'm having that I'm passing on to you, that if anyone is looking into buying the SC might run in to and learn from this.
Thankfully, I have you guys to back me up when I (or someone) runs into these problems to help.

We'll see what happens on Monday, stay tuned.

[jayfotos]

Oops, the shop I brought it to was Apex Motorsports in Tempe.

[Dallas4u]

Yeah, contact Tone and see if he can do anything for you as well (even though you didn't go through him!)

[Capri]

I was told by the tech that the hoses and many "minor" things were missing from the instructions. They guessed that this SC fits on several variation of 3.5 L or 3.2L engine, and didn't consider the actual placement of VX's engine. There were a lot of custom work done, the biggest thing was the SC fuel line was ripped upon delivery, kinda dangerous if it was overlooked.

[jayfotos]

I don't think that Tone can do anything, we know what the problem is, it's just working out who should pay for it.

To be a little more specific on one of the few problems was the fuel line runing across to both fuel rails was cracked and leaking fuel. It could'nt be welded for it was made of galvanized metal, so the shop fabed another line.
Alpine was willing to replace the line, but it was faster just to make another one than to wait another day to get the part.

[azskyrider]

Hello Jay,

I figured it was Apex. They are well known in the NSX world here in AZ. It doesn't hurt to ask if Apex could help you out not because of any fault of theirs. They have done a lot of SC installs.

If you are just thinking about Alpine paying and that is that. Then what are you prepared to do if they say NO?

If you are prepared to "go farther" ;) and take legal action then you might first consider what you will say and keep it brief. Then consult an attorney. I think an attorney will cost you the same if not more than the labor hours and that might not guarantee you anything.

If you are not prepared to take legal action then I would chop it up as a bad experience and a lesson learned. I feel for you but life goes on. Remember you will still need to deal with Alpine to receive any warranty work so no reason to burn bridges. It might be in your favor to keep them advised of the burden they have caused you in case of future warranty work.

For future owners I think we could all learn from your unfortunate and costly experience by buying the SC from the place that will install it. This way all the work and parts can be handled by the shop and if anything goes wrong then the shop will have to deal with the manufacturer and possible labor for carrying and installing a defected part.

Cheers,

[jayfotos]

Don't get me wrong, Alpine has been polight as so have I about any problems that has come up and I don't plan on getting ugly about it, I just want it fixed.
They were surprised as you all on all these things going wrong and never had problems like this before. But as you can see(from my first post) I'm not alone and Alpine should address this. I'm not saying they hav'nt, we still have not discussed on how to handle it, we'll see on monday.

[jayfotos]

Just got off the phone with John from Alpine(very nice guy), thse are the steps we are going to take to fix this problem.

He thinks the box has maybe been flipped up side down in shipping, causing the oil leak from the cone(at the pulley).
I mentioned the leaks coming from the seals from the bearing chamber(sent him pics as well to view), he is baffled about that.

John asked me for my first step is to clean off all the oil(using Simple Green) and see how much oil comes back. At that point we will determine if there is a problem that needs to be addressed.
I asked him, "OK, if it's still leaking....what happens?" I wanted some sort of assurance that Alpine is willing to compinsate. At that point, after cleaning off the engine and if the problem is still there, either the SC has to be replaced or pull apart the cone assembly and reseal(witch is what I think is going to happen).
We'll see, I'm off to the car wash.

[jayfotos]

Here we go, just back from the car wash and she's clean as a whisle.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/901cleansc1.jpg

I'm going to give it a few days of driving and see what we come up with, stay tuned.

Here's a pic to compare-

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/901jaysc2.jpg

[AlaskaVX]

Mine is doing this as well. :confused: It's mainly leaking where yours is, just not quite as bad. But where the second set of bolts are (2nd seam) mine is also leaking.

[t2p]

I'll give you an opinion:
.
I *really* like the SC .............. and I'm jealous .........
.
A VX with a SC - that is the kinda stuff dreams are made of ......
.
'stick with it' ...... correct the small 'bugs' ......... it will work out

[jayfotos]

Originally posted by AlaskaVX
Mine is doing this as well. :confused: It's mainly leaking where yours is, just not quite as bad. But where the second set of bolts are (2nd seam) mine is also leaking.

And you never said anything about it? I feel like I was the only one with this problem....a outcast, freak of nature.

Now you, speak up man! Thet's hear your part.

[AlaskaVX]

It actually just started to do it, about 3,000 miles ago, while doing an oil change I noticed, it is just such a small a mount of oil I wasn't too concerned, I was planning on changing out the SC oil this oil change, to make sure the oil level was at a descent level. I will see if I can borrow a camera and take a pic.

[jayfotos]

I've had mine for about a week, and that is the result thus far.

How long have you had yours?

[AlaskaVX]

20,000+ miles

[jayfotos]

Welp, 24 hours later....still leaking.

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/901nextday2.jpg

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/901nextday1.jpg

I sent Alpine the photos and I'm going to call them to see what happens next.

[jayfotos]

The status thus far-

Nothing.....after phone calls and emails(showing all the pics) to Alpine I do not feel very comfortable on how or when they plan on fixing this problem.

From what I understand, they are contacting the manufacture of the SC component that is leaking and waiting to see what they have to say, wich I don't understand....I bought the product from Alpine, I don't care who is lyable for the part, just fix it.
I stressed I wanted to fix this problem(and it's getting worse) as soon as possible, it's been a few weeks.
In their eyes maybe it's not a big deal, "Just leaking a bit".
Sorry, I spent close to 4k for this thing and I'm not happy with the product or the company(parts missing and broken, important information missing from installation instructions) that sells it and I stressed that(polightly).....now, please help me have faith in you.....make good and stand behind your company and product.

Alpine has been very polight and assures "they are on it", but they have never returned any of my phonecalls(except maybe when I first inquired about buying the SC) and when they say they'll have some answers, they don't. Every phone call has been "We'll know tomorrow, we'll call you.".....what's to know?

Yep, I'm fustrated and rambling on and for all I know they will call me tomorrow and surprise me.....but I dought it.

(takes a deep breath and sighs)

Hey, I know it will be fixed, by me or whoever and the problem will be solved, but remember we're not talking about a defective $20 toaster here.....it's my baby!

[Apostle]

www.bbb.org

[azskyrider]

Jay,

I would recommend ditching the Labor comp and now start shooting for a new SC ASAP. Take yours out and have it boxed and taken to them personally. Better yet, Take it directly to the place. Your from AZ like me so go out there and visit them with the SC in hand and have them exchange it for a new one. Since there are some VX owners in CA then maybe they can recommend you a shop or ALPINE and have it done over the weekend. Then you and Alpine can verify that it is good to go.

The important thing now I believe is getting a properly built SC. So don't let them stonewall you.

Here is the address I got

S.A. Alpine Developments, Inc.
7581 Acacia Avenue
Garden Grove, Ca. 92841


I wish a good outcome for you.

Cheers,

[azskyrider]

Jay,

Also don't forget to write down the Serial number and post so people who will be receiving one can make sure they don't get the defect.

Cheers,

[Tone]

You know it would take all of 15 minutes to unbolt and reseal the SC where it is seeping. It is unfortunate that you have one with this problem but it is not the end of the world and for all the time spent freaking, the problem could have easily been resolved. This really is akin to Jiffy Lube not completely tightening your oil drain plug - do you get hire an attorney to sue and get the guy fired or do you simply climb under the car and tighten the plug? Guess the choice is yours...

[Green Dragon]

Originally posted by Tone
You know it would take all of 15 minutes to unbolt and reseal the SC where it is seeping.


I would be interested in getting info on the resealing of the SC mating surfaces as I have had mine apart twice. Once for Nose cone replacement & once for Coupler replacement. I have polished the mating surfaces and applied a sealant that my son in law uses in repairing motorcycles( he owns & operates a ATV - MotorCycle- Jet Ski etc repair shop).

I have yet to stop the SC from leaking.

Bob

[autox-racer]

I dont know why it keeps leaking after you have resealed but i would highly recommend a toyota silicone that is black in color(sorry dont have part number but most toyota dealers should know.. they have black and grey(yamabond type)).

I dont know what the stuff is but i used it when working on toyotas and it was virtual leak proof. the stuff is amazing at sealing up engines/transmissions/diffs(basically holds in any lube). And if you get it on your hands, plan on having black hands for about a week. Stuff sticks to EVERYTHING.

[jayfotos]

I'm blowing off a little steam....I'm not sueing anyone or driving to CA knocking on Alpines door. It'll be fixed, just fustrated....I would love to do it myself, I don't have the tools or space(plus it's hot, 107) and would rather have someone do it that knows how to fix it with the right tools.

Green dragon- How come you replaced your nosecone?

[Dallas4u]

Not sure why Bob replaced his nose cone, but it could have to do with the "clicking" sound many of us hear. I've been assured it is quite normal and shouldn't cause a problem. After doing quite a bit of research on the net I have found that it IS in fact very common to hear a "clicking" or "ticking" in the nose cone under idle in a roots type (Eaton) supercharger.

Ok, now back to the shooooo!

[Green Dragon]

Originally posted by jayfotos

Green dragon- How come you replaced your nosecone?

Front bearing failed. Alpine Replaced with new Type Nosecone that has sealed bearing.

Bob