Finally! Lowering the VX

[transio]

I called Valley Spring Works today (finally) and spoke to Bill, who is a really nice guy. I placed an order for new rear springs for my VX. They will be 2" shorter than stock, and about 20% stiffer. The cost was $205 + shipping to Miami. I forgot to ask about lead time. I'll probably call agian tomorrow. Anyhow, I'll let you all know when I get them in.

Also, I will need some help from someone who's got experience with adjusting the torsion bars up front. I think I'll try cranking the front down about 1" at first to see how that works out for me before exploring other options.

Now then... I've got my new 29" mudders on there with a high negative offset (WIDE stance) and stiff Bilsteins. With this 2" drop and stiffer springs, my VX should be a rallycross beast! I can't wait!

[Cyrk]

Very interested in how this goes... I really would love to lower my VX a little also.
Keep us posted. and post some pics.
-Dave

[nater]

Yes, very interested as well. Also, what tires/ wheels are you running? (Sizes)? Do they rub? Did you trim them?

Nate

[transio]

Ok, guys, I'll keep you informed. For wheels/tires, I'm currently running w/ Tone's old setup:

29x10.15x15 TrXus STS All Terrain Radials on 15x7 (3.75” offset) American Racing wheels

Here are pics on Tone's ride. They look cooler on my Proton, though! ;)

[Images removed by owner]

I would love to go a little bigger w/ tires... maybe 31"... but I don't have the budget for that right now. I went way overbudget on my exhaust project, so this is it for my VX fund until I save up a little more $$$ :D

[02RodeoS]

will springs fit a rodeo?

[morgan-tec]

I am very intrested in the info on the shop doing your springs, i have been looking for new springs for my Axiom and this could be it. please pmn me or post the shop and contact info. Thanks

[transio]

The shop is Valley Spring Works: http://www.valleyspr.qpg.com

Their email was down yesterday, but they're avail. by phone. Bill is a nice guy. He says they've done many VX projects, including lifts AND drops, and they're very familiar w/ the VX springs.

[Cyrk]

So are lowering springs not need in the font?

[transio]

The front uses torsion bars, which can be adjusted easily enough for ~1" +/- variation without ride problems (supposedly). Not sure if there's a "how to" on this site for doing that.

If you really want to improve your ride (like I do), you could put coil springs up front, but that would involve some reengineering of the suspension. I may go that route in a couple years, but I'm going to stick w/ the torsion bars for now.

[Hotsauce]

If you lower either end much you'll be riding on the bump stops.

I think in the front you could make a spacer for the ball joint to give the effect of a dropped spindle. lowering the VX. but not losing travel.

John C.

[transio]

I'm gonna trim the bump stops to prevent bouncing on them. I don't mind losing upward travel. I'm going stiffer w/ springs and/or shocks to offset the lost travel.

[Hotsauce]

Stiffer shochs? When you find them tell me.

If you bottom your suspension, all sorts of bad math happens to your handeling.

John C.

[transio]

John, search for "Bilstein Shocks Info" I think it's 1738-H1's up front. 25% stiffer than the suggested 1738-H2's, and riding like a dream so far! If I crank down the torsion bars 1", you think it will cause me handling issues? Please explain in further detail. I thought you could crank torsion bars down a little w/o issues, as long as you trim bump stops?

[Hotsauce]

I have H1's now, they are nice shocks. Definatly not as stiff as stock though, or as fast reacting.

Try an inch an see, you can always go back. Cutting the bump stop will give more travel. If this allows the shock to bottom, it will destroy the shock valve the forst time the piston bottoms hard.

John C.

[morgan-tec]

Originally posted by transio
If I crank down the torsion bars 1", you think it will cause me handling issues? Please explain in further detail. I thought you could crank torsion bars down a little w/o issues, as long as you trim bump stops?

I lowered my old explorer 1.5" in this manner and after an alignment i had no issues and the handleing was great. I think he was warning you to not go to far so you get you wheels to far out of camber that they can not be realigned.

[nater]

If you are lowering the torsion bars, perhaps calmini's stiffer torsion bars would be a good idea...

Hard to say if they fit the vehicross, though...

http://www.pureisuzu.com/torsion_bars3.htm

Nate

[transio]

nater, thanks for the tip. I'll look into them.

Here's my VX in its present state, btw, before lowering it:

http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=72773

http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=72772

You can see my mods to date: dual exhaust (not 100% done yet), Tone's old A/R's and Trxus tires, and a bra :)

I'm right now looking for some new wheels and tires for street use, because these are having some balancing issues, but this is where I'm at right now.

[transio]

PS - Springs are set to arrive this Saturday!

[Cyrk]

transio your VX is looking Tough... nice work.

[CoriVX]

Hey Steve, decided to check in see if anything has happened to my VX. Looks like you've done some work! Nice job! It's lookin good! Looks pretty naked without the badges, but I see you kept the Pia lights I had installed in the front. Very nice, glad to see you enjoying it and taking care of my first love! :mbrasd:
Take Care!

Cori ;pb;

[transio]

Hi, Cori!

Glad to see you're not upset about any of the changes! :)

I'll let ya know when I make more mods. :D

[CoriVX]

Hey Steve, Nah, I could never be upset about what you're doing to the VX. It used to be mine, but now it's yours so you can do anything to it! I'm glad to see you're enjoying it though, good to know it went to a good home! ;Db; Keep on enjoying it, and yes I would love to see it when it is completed, I probably won't even recognize it used to be mine!

Take Care,
Cori ;pb;

[Maugan_VX]

Why would you want to lower your vx?

Its never going to be competitive on a rally circuit.

[Jay Dunford]

Maugan, you sure are mouthy for a newbie - Tone and I have taken 1st overall, 1st in class, and 3rd in class in Houston SCCA RallyX several years in a row. Beat a number of WRXes as well. Rick in Portland has done similarly in Seatle. Tone also ran as a chase vehicle in the Paris, TX rally and loaded with an EMT and radio operator was faster than many of the serious competitors.

True, Collin has nothing to worry about from a VX but they ARE something to be dealt with offroad.

[Maugan_VX]

i'm running the numbers here,

WRX-
3200lbs 230hp AWD

VX-
4600lbs 215hp AWD

You have catback, Tone has SC, so I don't know your numbers, but doing rally drifts in a top-heavy VX doesn't sound like a good idea.

Thanks for the compliment.

[technocoy]

well, i don't give a CRAP what a wrx is pushing, it's a different machine altogether, and the machine don't make the driver. These things were built for rally and you can't tell anyone here who has taken it offroad that it isn't wise. it is one of the best handling off-road vehicles i have driven stock. and those with superchargers are pushing between 250-270 in an all-wheel drive configuration, which gives it plenty of room to move. and yeah, the thing is more top-heavy than a car, but very stable by SUV standards, or 4 wheel drives period for that matter. and when i last checked not all rallies were run by cars and low-riders. but i agree that a capable wrx driver against a capable VX driver has a distinct advantage in pure movement capability.

[MachineVX]

The VX doesn't weigh anywhere near 4600 lbs, btw.

[johnnyapollo]

It's a moot point I think.

In SCCA RallyX the WRX and VX are in two different classes since the VX is considered a 4x4 truck and not an AWD car. It is impressive to take 1st overall.


My 2 cents...

-- John

[Maugan_VX]

The VX doesn't weigh anywhere near 4600 lbs, btw.

Check your owners manual paco.

GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) 2,110 kg (4,653lbs)

I suppose they're lying about the wheelbase length too. :rollg:

I'm no expert in rally, but I'd imagine that a big part of the degree of success is how well your stuff stays together. In which case the Vx would have an advantage if there are tons of rough terrain spots.

I'm thinking this debate is useless.

[MachineVX]

Car and Driver has it listed as 3955 sans driver

[Maugan_VX]

I'm more willing to put stock in Isuzu's documentation. Anyone know if there are differences in weights between model years of VX's?

[transio]

Originally posted by Maugan_VX
I'm more willing to put stock in Isuzu's documentation. Are your WRX figures from the manufacturer as well? Different sources use different standards for weighing vehicles. Manufacturers often will weigh with a full tank and possibly even a driver. Magazines will typically give you dry weight. There's room there for a 700 pound discrepancy if you ask me. 25 gallons of fuel at 20 pounds a gallon plus a 150 pound driver.... add it up.

[transio]

Anyhow, getting back on topic, I'm lowering the VX specifically for the concern that was raised - it IS a little top-heavy. Lowering it a couple inches, widening the stance, and getting stiffer shocks and springs will lower the center of gravity, give it even more stability, and improve all-around performance. What exactly is your problem with that?

[Dallas4u]

Originally posted by MachineVX
Car and Driver has it listed as 3955 sans driver

So does the sticker on the inside of the drivers door.

[Maugan_VX]

What exactly is your problem with that?

I want to run over low riders.

I have a strict altitude insufficency syndrome.

[skunkworks]

The whole arguement is moot as results are worth more than opinions, however I did want to point out that gas weighs about 5 pounds a gallon. Otherwise it would not float on water which is about 8 pounds.

albert
________
no2 vaporizer (http://no2vaporizers.com)

[transio]

skunk,

Good catch. Thanks for the tip. Gasoline weighs ~6.25 pounds per gallon. I never actually looked it up before, but I had heard the figure of ~20 pounds some time in the past and didn't think to question it.

[deermagnet]

"The GVWR is the maximum weight your vehicle is designed to carry. The GVWR includes the net weight of the vehicle, plus the weight of passengers, fuel, cargo and any accessories added to the vehicle after purchase. The GVWR is a safety standard used to prevent overloading."

"Curb Weight is the weight of the vehicle including standard equipment, oil, lubricants and a full tank of fuel. It does not include optional contents or other optional equipment, the weight of driver, passengers or cargo."

Mark

[MachineVX]

The 3955 lb figure is the curb weight

[-x-]

front torsion bars cranked....x ;Db;

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/204dsc01335-med.jpg

[transio]

-x-

How long did it take you to crank the torsion bars? Any noticeable decrease in performance? Have you altered your bump stops at all? What wheels are those? :D

[Triathlete]

front torsion bars cranked....x

Uh, you mean UN-CRANKED http://www.4x4wire.com/forums/images/graemlins/butwiggle.gif

[transio]

Originally posted by Maugan_VX
I want to run over low riders.

I have a strict altitude insufficency syndrome. I don't think you understand.

[Maugan_VX]

^ I do now.

Its cool. I dont like the way it looks but its functional. :winko:

[transio]

Thinking of installing springs this weekend. Anyone wanna help?! :)

[WormGod]

Hmmm, I am a little concerned about rub. Pump a corner and test out the tire against your cladding. May be that removing the inner well cover will be needed. Lemme know how the cornering vs rubbing is though.

A little too low for my tatse, but I am still interested in seeing your final results.

Good luck man! :D

[Cyrk]

transio did these ever get installed?? Very interested in this mod.

[transio]

Man,

I never got around to it because work's been a biatch lately, and then Sears said they wouldn't honor my lifetime alignment thingy if I did, so I was waiting to get my new wheels and then I was gonna have everything done all at once.....

...and, well, you know how that worked out! Modding the VX sure ain't been an easy proposition for me!

I'll keep ya updated, though, Cyrk. I expect to have everything sorted out soon.

[transio]

Went and paid $50 today to have the new springs installed and then the old springs re-installed.

The new springs are 2" shorter than the old ones, but are made of a higher gauge steel, and don't compress as much. The end result is a 1" LIFT. :(

That's $200 + $20 shipping + $50 install/uninstall = $270 wasted on springs that don't do what they're supposed to. :mad:

I'm going to call Valley Springworks and see if they'll work something out for me. Bill had promised me that he knows the VX very well and had no problem fabricating a 2" drop set of springs. Let's find out if he's a man of integrity and will back up what he promised.

I'll keep you guys updated.

[MachineVX]

Have you heard back from them?

[wareagle]

I bet valley will replace. They have a good history of mamking things right.

FYI, you can swap in rodeo springs for a 1" drop. I'm not sure how they will feel though.

[transio]

Originally posted by MachineVX
Have you heard back from them? No... they said they'd call back the next day. This was last Thursday. I've been focusing on my wheels this week (I have a bit more invested in them). I guess I'll try Valley again today and see what they want to do.

[transio]

Originally posted by wareagle
drop. I'm not sure how they will feel though. Good info to have!!!

[transio]

Originally posted by transio
I guess I'll try Valley again today and see what they want to do. Yeah, ummm..... well I called them today and got an automated message that says they're closed Nov 19th - December 1st. I'm not happy about this situation. They really should have called me back this week. Now I have to sit around and wait another 2 weeks. Do you know someone there, wareagle?

[RodeoSport]

I have a set of Rodeo Sport or a set of Rodeo coils I'll trade for some VX coils. The RS coil springs should give about 1 1/2" drop, the Rodeo about a 1" drop. I've used both in my Rodeo Sport and can say the Rodeo Sport coils are stiffer, and about 1/2" shorter with no load. The RS coils only have about 12K on them, the Rodeo coils about 20K. I bought the Rodeo coils thinking they would give me a least a 1" lift, they didn't so now I am looking for some Trooper/VX coils. You can email me at pdmartine@yahoo.com

Being a RS guy, I just lurk here, but I'm known somewhat on the 4x4wire and PlanetIsuzoo forums as TooShinyRS.

Paul

[majork]

How did the lowering project workout???? If so, what were the specs for shocks, springs, etc you needed to purchase

[transio]

What happened is the springs were manufactured incorrectly - about the same height as stock - and Bill from Valley Springworks hasn't sent me new ones or returned any of my recent calls... so I gave up after about $300 investment and disappointing results.

[SPAZZ]

if you are in Portland...you can contact Little Laurie and try to get her old stock VX springs...she lifted hers last I heard..but not sure if she kept it that way or not, because she was having cv boot tearing problems(not sure why unless the shop lited the front end way too high).

[transio]

I still have my stock ones on my VX.