Nhtsa Illegal Hid Crackdown

[skullcap]

NHTSA ILLEGAL LIGHTING CRACKDOWN CONTINUES

Continuing its crackdown against manufacturers and suppliers of illegal lighting equipment, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) today announced its decision that high intensity discharge (HID) conversion kits produced by a Texas company do not comply with federal safety standards.

The owner of ASTEX USA, a supplier of aftermarket HID kits, was ordered to conduct a recall campaign and provide a no-cost solution to the customer. The company is based in Dayton, TX. When installed in a motor vehicle, the HID kits “can be expected to produce excessive glare to oncoming motorists and others,” NHTSA said in its decision.

To date, NHTSA has investigated 24 HID conversion kit suppliers; all investigations have resulted in recalls or termination of sales.

“These illegal lights are a potential hazard to those who share the road,” said NHTSA Administrator Jeffrey Runge, MD. “And we will continue to pursue those offering them for sale and violating the law.”

Companies that sell, import or manufacture non-compliant equipment could face substantial civil penalties, NHTSA said.

[WormGod]

I actually heard a snippet about this on Headline news this weekend. Didn't catch the whole thing since I had just come into it, but wow.... that's not very good news. My brother in law who is a state inspector was informed sometime ago to FAIL cars with HIDs going through inspection in the state of Maryland. Cars that ship with them are ok though. Almost fair, but hey, the law is the law I guess. *shrug*

[skullcap]

Yikes! I just learned about needing an inspection in MD, myself!

I hope my PV2 doesn't get a thumbs-down, because it sure comes in handy to back the deer-away when I'm on the BW Parkway.

[Tone]

Oops, I was getting ready to bring 20 kits in from China. Luckily the fine etc is on the seller (me) and not the user. I still think a properly designed kit like the one I offer is NOT a problem to oncoming traffic as I have not been flashed in many months after properly aiming them. They have a built in glare sheild that most other kits do not.

In any case, it is a simple 5 minute replug if you need to go back to stock lamps for a silly inspection. Nothing is cut or moved so the stock headlight plug that is going to the ignitor and ballast is unplugged and replugged into the stock lamps.

[WormGod]

Originally posted by skullcap
Yikes! I just learned about needing an inspection in MD, myself!

I hope my PV2 doesn't get a thumbs-down, because it sure comes in handy to back the deer-away when I'm on the BW Parkway.

You will be ok. If the crappy Mr Coffee pipes can pass, so can the PV. I actually had a police officer compliment me on the sound of my VX (has a PV also). Said it sounded like "it meant business". As for emissions, no worry there either. Knowing MD testing is pretty steep, the PV slipped through with nil a blink of the eye.

[Maugan_VX]

^ I need to get me one of them PV mufflers. I've heard nothing but good things about them.

[johnnyapollo]

My VX passed City of Atlanta - GA emissions with the PV - no issues.

-- John

[Tone]

Uh, mufflers don’t affect emissions.... and they only cause problems with inspection if they are too loud.

[ISCE]

Originally posted by skullcap
Yikes! I just learned about needing an inspection in MD, myself!

I hope my PV2 doesn't get a thumbs-down, because it sure comes in handy to back the deer-away when I'm on the BW Parkway.

skulcap,

I agree, the deer this year are just insane. I have had two very close run ins in the past couple of weeks. I have witness some serious deer carnage here lately, a real nice looking buck was taken out just a couple of days ago. I drive through Loch Raven reservoir every day and the deer are really thick through there. Typically there is a line of cars going through, and the deer won't even look up until I get close. I am attributing it to the PV2, at least they look and see me coming.

(then again maybe they are scared and jumping into the road in fear...?)

I say open up some time for the bow hunters.

Jay

[UtahVXer]

I received a notice in the mail from Brightstar saying they were recalling all of their kits for noncompliance. Although they can be returned for a refund, I like mine too much to give it up. I've never been flashed or pulled over. I actually think they increase safety by improving visibility both ways. It really is one of my favorite mods -- and a great complement to the unique appearance of the VX. I suggest Tone get as many more kits as he can, if he can still get any, that is.

[Tone]

I am trying to put together a group buy very soon since ALL HID kits are becoming scarce. I am testing a new Bi_Xenon kit that came in today which uses HID for high and lo beam by a solenoid controlled shield. Very impressive so far. Will post pictures and details soon.

Group buy requires a minimum of 10 kits although the company is pushing for 20. Will know pricing soon and work out the details with the company next week at SEMA.

F*ck the NHTSA - the government always seems to mess with the things people like the most. Well designed kits like these are an improvement in driver safety or maybe we should only buy cars because of the lighting they have?

[WyrreJ]

All it takes is DOT certification and the NHTSA will leave the kit maker/seller alone. How much does "all" cost? Probably too much.

[SGT.BATGUANO]

Originally posted by WyrreJ
All it takes is DOT certification and the NHTSA will leave the kit maker/seller alone. How much does "all" cost? Probably too much.

That depends on what you consider a reasonable BRIBE.

[Nology]

Any HID in a non-HID housing is illegal. It will never be legal. If you have a car that comes with or has an aftermarket for an HID housing then you can get the bulbs for it. I've seen tons of cars with the kits on stock housings and all it does is glare out of control.

[VX crazy]

Well, you have not seen the right ones than! Mine are awesome, I have never been highbeamed, and they do NOT glare. Once you try them you will not be able to live without them.

[Nology]

But they are still blinding to oncoming traffic. There is no way to control that unless you have the proper housings. I have HIDs on my cherokee but I also have the housings so they are aimed propely. An actual HID housing covers almost 70% of the bulb because of how bright they actually are.

[Ldub]

Any HID in a non-HID housing is illegal. It will never be legal. If you have a car that comes with or has an aftermarket for an HID housing then you can get the bulbs for it. I've seen tons of cars with the kits on stock housings and all it does is glare out of control.
Oh good, another "expert", hope you also have strong opinions on all other aspects of what others should be doing with their rides that they bought with their $$$.....and are willing to share with us.
Hmmmmm, kinda reminds me of that other "expert" around here(scratches head)...what was his name again?

Oh, btw, welcome to the group, Ldub

[VX crazy]

Yup, another 'expert' WITHOUT a VX! :rollp:

[Tone]

There has been sketchy enforcement of this 'law' and it applies to the seller of the product, not the user. There is no way when approaching a vehicle to determine whether it came with HIDs from the factory or not. I will put the kits I offer up to comparison to most all stock HIDs for glare - I have experienced as much or more glare from stock vehicles than the VX.

Realize that the bulbs are designed with the identical focal point as the stock H4s and have glare shields designed in. Glare cannot be significantly more with HID as it is only a brighter light - it has no beam control of it's own. A projector style HID system will be superior since it uses a lense to control and direct a smaller cone of light. There are cheap kits out there that do not place the light source in the proper location and/or do not incorporate glare shields.

I have not heard of anyone getting ticketed for this mod and I have several police officers using them on their personal vehicles.

[nyc #1 ironman]

Hey Tone,
Will these lights fit just on the VX or if I get in on a group buy will they fit my Benz? Thanks...

[Moncha]

I've put the Kaixen BiXenon HID kit with low and high beam output on my VX and my wifes Honda Pilot and when installing both kits, I stopped half way and took the vehicles out on a flat road. I parked the vehicle and compared the "glare factor" at varying distances (Unfortunately I did not take pictures). In my opinion, I saw more "Glare" from the regular stock halogen lamps than the HID counterparts. I'm sure it's due to the different temperatures of the light output but, the HID light was more comforting to my eye even though it was noticibly brighter.

I am a cop and Tone is right, I would be hard pressed to pullover someone with HID because you can't tell from a distance if it's an "Aftermarket kit". I've seen more glare out of stock Bimmers and Mercs than what I see out of this kit and those are the "projectors"..

Where you may take it in the shorts is at the safetly inspection centers but, in all honesty, they would have to know that the HID is not an available option for that particular vehicle and most of the stations I've seen are just worried that the beam is properly aimed which the HID kit would be, unless they get improperly adjusted somehow.

George, if the bulb capsule is an h4 or one of the other standard replaceables.. it should fit.. but I digress, Tone has the application sheets.

[MZ-N10]

the light itself doesnt travel any different then the light from a halogen headlamp. the frequency of the light itself could change, but it still doesnt change how light travels. if ur headlights glare with stock halogens then hids will just increase the brightness of the glare. ive had tones 6500k for about a year now, have no problems with it. it also really depends on teh cop, usually i dont think they care, but if they really wanted to i guess they could ticket you for it. but the kit itself takes about 5 minutes to disconnect and reconnect ur stock halogens.

[Kenny]

I have one of Tone�s Kaixen BiXenon HID kit (diamond white) and it is awesome. Everyone I know thinks the HID are stock with the VX since they work so well with the headlamps. I�ve swapped cars with others and drove in front of my VX and don�t find the glare at all a concern. (unless you happen to be in a Miata stopped in front of me, then I have to back off a bit so as not to blind their rearview mirror)

I found that a few new Mercedes and BMW with stock HID have much, much, more glare (and more blue) than mine as I pass them. So I can�t ever see a VX getting pulled over for glare. But they might get pulled over for too much blue or violet in the HID.

[mbeach]

Yup, another 'expert' WITHOUT a VX! :rollp:

Not fair. True, but not fair.


Nology (please no relation to the ricer-scam 'Hotwires' found at AutoZone) makes a valid point based on what he has heard from those who (may) actually know what they are talking about.

I've read FMVSS 108 from end-to-end while doing some other work, and I seem to have a fair understanding of its content and applications. It is generally true that non-HID housings were not designed to control/focus light from HID bulbs. I've endured a very public battle on NASIOC with a Mr108 (employee of the NHTSA) over this very topic.
Here's a common arguement:
-Stray light outside of the 'cut-off' pattern. HOWEVER, the VX has an exceptionally sharp cut-off pattern for a halogen-designed fixture. So clear, it makes many projectors look poor by comparison. Check it out yourself @ 50 feet from a smooth vertical wall. A very nice horizontal cut-off with a distinct elbow and rise to the right. Simply adding brighter lights won't change this important feature one bit.

Bottom line is, under current guidelines/regulations, HID retrofit kits are illegal, no matter how good your housings or bulbs are. Even your 'HID housings' on your Cherokee are illegal, Nology. FMVSS 108 is outdated and needs some serious revision, but the law's the law.
Incidentally, being that I've owned 4 Jeeps (2 SJs, 1 XJ, 1 ZJ), I've NEVER heard of such HID housings being offered -when did this start?

I'd venture to say that few other VX owners (aside from the 4 others that live within 20 miles of me) need quality lighting more than I do. Poor/ nonexistant street lighting, bad roads, wildlife and long hours of darkness demand first-rate lighting. It has been my experience that no one light will do it all, and redundant light sources are important in the land of flying rocks.
I use Osram/Tungsram EUROPEAN 55/65 bulbs in the stock housings, Hella 35W projectors for fog, and 110W KC slimlights for 'moose lights'. All lights are mounted in the correct locations (fogs are low, driving beams are high, etc.) I've done some wiring modifications and upgrades to the factory harness, but aside from that, I'm pretty stock.
Granted, this is what works for me, and may not apply to others' driving environments.

[Maugan_VX]

Hmmmmm, kinda reminds me of that other "expert" around here(scratches head)...what was his name again?


You mean that guy that offers up his informed opinions on a public-free-for-use internet message board?

[Ldub]

You mean that guy that offers up his informed opinions on a public-free-for-use internet message board?
Are you referring to your "informed" :rolleyes: opinion on debadging ?

[Maugan_VX]

Sure...

that one and other gems of unmeasurable wisdom that I've graciously offerred this group....

Nice troll and thread hijack btw.

[Tone]

Gee I miss reading Maugan's helpful posts....

[Maugan_VX]

Man,

this site has a serious lack of sarcastic humor.

lighten up people.

[Ldub]

Man,

this site has a serious lack of sarcastic humor.

lighten up people.

Perhaps you've never noticed, but you do have a way of bringing out the very best in people...a talent that will serve you well for years to come. :)

[nyc #1 ironman]

Thanks for the tip scott. I am thinking now I that my Benz has the HID or they may be Xenons.

[mbeach]

I am thinking now I that my Benz has the HID or they may be Xenons.

Same thing. HIDs are Xenon (gas).
There have been many complaints about the lighting on high-end cars over the last few years. Much of it has to due with the color of the lights themselves. Viewers perceive the light as blue, and it draws the eyes to it because it's different than the more common yellow light.

If everyone had HIDs, no one would notice -or care.

[WyrreJ]

If everyone had HIDs, no one would notice -or care.

That may not be true. About a year ago, there was a study that claimed to show that humans have some sort of instinctive compulsion to look more closely at light sources in the 4000K-5000K range. That unless they actively tried to avoid looking too closely, people just naturally spent a lot more time looking at those lights than the more yellow ~3000K lights like halogens.

I'm sure I have some of the details wrong, because I am too lazy to go hunt down a citation right now. But it was my impression that this reflexive behaviour was not specific to headlights, but any light source in that temp range.