Avatars

[Bill Brown]

Avatars here are a nice way for people to personalize their posts. I accept that we all have different ways to display our appreciation of VXes. However, I totally miss the connection between Heraclid's avatar and VXes. I do not suggest anyone's avatar be censored. However, I do find Heraclid's avatar to be offensive on multiple levels.
1. Though intended to be humorous, Heraclids avatar depicts an extremely vicious act of violence.
2. The avatar suggests Bush had just cause to invade and occupy Iraq.
3. The avatar suggests it is okay for the U.S. to brutalize the people of Iraq.
4. To an outsider, the avatar could imply all VX owners are thug worshipping loonies.
5. The avatar suggests Bush is a mindless brutal sadistic monster (no argument from me on that perception, though I find it offensive).
Heraclid's avatar gave me yet another reason to post my apologies to the world at http://www.sorryeverybody.com/gallery/495/
:nor:
http://www.sorryeverybody.com/upload_files/se15661.jpeg

[SPAZZ]

it is his Avatar and if he wants it, let him have it. It is not offensive. I liked the Avatar and Bush is a mindless monster. Hoorah...



Semper Fi...oh I'm sorry todays Corps is Semper I;Dp;

[kpaske]

I am not a huge fan of President Bush, and I won't deny that he's done a number of things that I question. I do on the other hand support my president and refuse to offer apologies to the world on his behalf. But before we change this thread into another 30 page political discussion, I'll make my point.

One of the greatest rights we've been granted as Americans is the freedom of speech. If you're offended by what someone says (or an image they post), you've got the right to respond and express your opinion. But why do you feel the need to apologize for what someone else says or does?

[Bill Brown]

Originally posted by kpaske
If you're offended by what someone says (or an image they post), you've got the right to respond and express your opinion. But why do you feel the need to apologize for what someone else says or does?
The very reason for the Sorry Everybody website is to let the world know very near half the U.S. did not support election of a president so despised throughout the world. Heraclid's avatar promotes the image of the ugly American. Apologies to the world serve to show many of us are humble, caring and respectful, countering the image of the ugly American promoted by such displays as Heraclid's avatar. Note that I said I did not want anyone's avatar to be censored. I shared my thoughts here regarding display of an avatar I find offensive and inappropriate for this forum.

[coachreed]

OK, so you've expressed your opinion and so have a couple others... I am just curious because I don't watch TV and rarely listen to the radio... have we received any/many apologies from people for flying jetliners into the Trade Towers or decapitating US Citizens? I'll quit now before I say something that might mark me as a war-mongering thug! Now we should move on... thanks for your input... have a wonderful day!

Coach... I mean Randy (I often forget who I really am) ;)
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/406banner.jpg (http://www.geocities.com/ironmanvx2000)
Undergoing LS1 Conversion as we speak!
Click Image to Visit My Website!
My Webshots Gallery... (http://community.webshots.com/user/ironmanvx2000)

[Bill Brown]

Originally posted by coachreed
I am just curious because I don't watch TV and rarely listen to the radio... have we received any/many apologies from people for flying jetliners into the Trade Towers or decapitating US Citizens?
Yes. There was a public outpouring of condolences from most countries around the globe following the attacks of 9/11/2001. There was understanding when the U.S. invaded Afghanistan seeking Osama bin Laden. However, there was and continues to be justified outrage over the U.S. invasion and brutal occupation of Iraq. Iraq had nothing to do with the 9/11/2001 attacks and Iraq did not pose a threat to the U.S.

[StormTROOPER]

It reminds me of the carnival game of "hit the gopher":D But I would suggest he change Saddam to Osama since Saddam is HISTORY. (along with his buddy Arafat)

[Bill Brown]

Originally posted by StormTROOPER
It reminds me of the carnival game of "hit the gopher":D But I would suggest he change Saddam to Osama since Saddam is HISTORY. (along with his buddy Arafat)
Unfortunately, Osama was looking pretty fit and in good spirits in his pre-U.S. election video address. Instead of diverting resources towards invading and occupying Iraq, we should have been serious about getting Osama.

[Jonnie]

:confused:

Yeah, poor Saddam.

The US is a horrible bully that should be bombed and irradicated by terrorists. It needs to go!!

Yeah, right, go get a life....

Jon:mad:

[Bill Brown]

Originally posted by Jonnie
:confused:

Yeah, poor Saddam.

The US is a horrible bully that should be bombed and irradicated by terrorists. It needs to go!!

Yeah, right, go get a life....

Jon:mad:
Saddam is living quite comfortably as compared to most people in Iraq, that's including both the occupied and the occupiers. You, I and the rest of U.S. taxpayers funded the slaughter of some 14,000 to 100,000 non-combatants in Iraq, part of why we need to at least apologize.

[Joe_Black]

At least now I know where many anti-U.S. supporters get their fuel from. We may not have a consensus of approval for our current administration, but our President is still the Commander-in-Chief. If this kind of rampant hippy crystal-gripping mindset had permeated the United States to this level in the 1940's most of Europe would firmly be spreading Nazi doctrine and we'd be cheap labor for Imperial Japan.

If you've got to apologize to the world for being an American it's time to pack your things, renounce your citizenship and move somewhere where reality can get a firm grip on your life.

[Rooster]

Seriously Bill, where did you find all this liberal mindwashing propaganda? I for one, as a 18 year vet do not "feel" sorry for un assing Saddam. We have done numorous good things in the country of Iraq. But, alas the biased liberal media wont tell you about those. They're too wrapped up in getting the juicey stories like Marines dying from an IED or civilians being beheaded. What about the schools we helped to reopen? What about the effort to get water to all villages? What, you dont know of these things? This is just a few things that are done daily to help the citizens of Iraq.

I for one think your rhetoric is appalling and against what we stand for. I fully support your right to free speach, as I have served in combat to protect your right, I do see a trend of people like you as being borderline treasonist. Lets put it this way, your fueling the extremist's cause with your "I'm Sorry". Did Saddam apologize for the 100,000's of innocent and unarmed Kurds he killed? BTW, he's comfortable right now, because we all know he's a dead man at the end of his warcrimes trial.

Don't get me wrong, I don't know you, but I know your type. If you feel the need to be among your type, please feel free to move to france.

The only thing I'm sorry about is this rant. BTW, the avatar is fine.

[Jonnie]

Rooster, thanks, well put. People (I was going to use another word) like this make me see white.

Jon

[Capri]

Though the avatar is a bit of a stretch to complain about, I do LOVE the 'sorryeverybody' site. My support for that only goes as far as Bush getting re-elected, because what the US does has a direct impact on the rest of the world.

If the US does not intervene or act as a world superpower, I could careless about what other country thinks. France and Germany can whine all they want.

But that's not the case, and any of the criticisms about the Bush administration and the Iraq war is somehow painted as "treason-like" and "get out of the country if you don't like it" - what a childish thing to say. Criticisms are what make a country free, able to say what you don't like about the government. In China and other countries, no one dares to say anything bad about the law or the government.

We have lobbyists, petitions, we are encouraged to call and write to our senators to make a difference. All of the sudden, people who criticize Bush are libel hippies, anti-Americans and traitors. The underlying reason behind criticisms is that we care, we want what we believe is the best scenario.

Ever since I spoke about Bush and criticized some of the policies in the past 4 years on my private web space away from community message boards, I've been labeled anything from "don't support our troops" to a "traitor." Even when I talk about sorryeverybody site, a few dozen decides I'm better off to Europe.

Sometimes I wonder if those people who label me and put me as a "type", a discrimination on my individuality realize that I think the same back. Whining is a different story, but criticisms and coming up with a plan for improving how things are is one of the essential traits of being an American.

[Bill Brown]

For whatever its worth, I believed the U.S. propaganda of the day and enlisted in the USMC during Vietnam. I advanced to become a Mustang officer (prior enlisted to commissioned officer). I am not proud of having fell for the con and to have played an active role in U.S. crimes of aggression of that era. I've lived in various countries in Europe, Africa, Asia and S. America. Prior to the election I thought if this country sinks any lower it might be time to emigrate. My friends abroad extended open arms should I make that decision. However, we agreed the best way to right the wrongs of the U.S.A. is to remain and do what is right. I can't say something to a right-winger like if you don't like my view go to some other nation, because I would not curse any people inside or outside my country with blind gullible rabid right-wingers. U.S. mainstream media is owned and controlled by right-wingers. Fortunately, the rest of the world gets to see what is actually happening, hence most of the world views the Bush regime for the danger it poses to us all. As for that lame lie about Iraqi schools opening, all we did was slap on paint to cover Saddam's slogans.

[angrylittleman]

...my tv signal must be crossing over into my internet signal, because bill sounds just like that talking head on CNN.

I like to come here to relax and just read the posts to get away from this mindless, vitriolic babble that you f*kn progressives spout off on a daily basis. Dammit! You guys could even ruin a good porn flick.

Hercalid - some avatar suggestions:

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/1039demseal.jpg

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/1039restricted.jpg

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/1039w04.jpg

[PBR]

You are from California that pretty much says it all, I too served during Vietnam and I totally disagree with you, Jane Fonda, and John Kerry who I consider a self serving traitor. The country voted for Bush and he is president, get over it, New York and California just dont get it, the rest of the country does.

[Bill Brown]

(Unaltered, the actual frontpage)
http://www.angelfire.com/tx5/billbrown/59054087.jpg

[Jonnie]

Originally posted by Bill Brown
...if this country sinks any lower it might be time to emigrate....

Don't let the door hit you in the fanny.

Jon

[Bill Brown]

"I thought if this country sinks any lower it might be time to emigrate. My friends abroad extended open arms should I make that decision. However, we agreed the best way to right the wrongs of the U.S.A. is to remain and do what is right."

[Triathlete]

Yeah, everything in iraq is wrong...































...or at least that is what the media would make everyone think!
What the media doesn't show (http://www.pbase.com/kburch/the_picture_from_iraq_you_wont_see_in_the_news)

[Bill Brown]

Originally posted by Triathlete
Yeah, everything in iraq is wrong......or at least that is what the media would make everyone think! What the media doesn't show (http://www.pbase.com/kburch/the_picture_from_iraq_you_wont_see_in_the_news)
Thousands of similar photos were coming out of Vietnam when we were slaughtering people in other parts of the country or in the next hamlet. It's commonly referred to as propaganda. With "in-bed" reporters, our propaganda has reached newer heights of deception.

[StormTROOPER]

Sheeeeeaught, a double post.

[StormTROOPER]

It's only a matter of time before we catch Osama and give him this just punishment........Stand him neck deep in a vat of swines blood and force him to watch MUTANT X until he nods off, his only hope will be if he can spot a VX, that will earn him a cup of coffee and a No-doz pill and another day of suffering. ;)

[Bill Brown]

Killing or capturing Osama bin Laden works for me. However, he is already at "martyr" status regardless of what we do.

[Rooster]

Bill, once again, I'm trying not to flame you but do you actually believe this stuff your posting? "We thought it would be a good idea to do what right and stay" (paraphrased). Who's we, your friends, would they also be the same friends john kerry had when he served his 2 tours (4 months) in Vietnam? I ask you to please stop living in the 60's, their over, we live in the new century. Here we have an invisible enemy. One who would rather hide and send innocent people to thei deaths as a part of their cause. So what, an English paper printed that, so f'n what? We get the same liberal bias from the Communist News Network, or CBS. Thats one of their freedoms.

As for a "coat of paint". What about school supplies sent by everyday Americans. More coatings?

Bah, no need to get worked up as you are probably o far gone. I wil say tis, it's Sunday and I deal with this stuff daily at work. One of the so called benefits of working in the Peoples Collective of Massachusetts.


Oh, and FWIW, kerry never apologised for his part in the atrosities of the Vietnem conflict, although Hanoi Jane did. I have a sliver of respect for her for doing so.

[kpaske]

U.S. mainstream media is owned and controlled by right-wingers. Fortunately, the rest of the world gets to see what is actually happening, hence most of the world views the Bush regime for the danger it poses to us all.

Wow, so I guess you watch the news from Al Jazeera or Communist China? Those guys really get to see what's "actually happening", huh? Now I'm not a big fan of the media, but don't you think if it were "owned and controlled" by the right-wing there would be a lot less of the negative images of Iraq? The media does put their own spin on things, but it's usually all about what will get people to tune in, not some political agenda.


But that's not the case, and any of the criticisms about the Bush administration and the Iraq war is somehow painted as "treason-like" and "get out of the country if you don't like it" - what a childish thing to say.

Now I don't think ALL criticisms are painted as "treason". But gathering together as many people as possible to publicly display to the world that you don't support your commander-in-chief could be viewed that way. The way I see it, if you don't like the direction your country is headed, you have two choices. Try to do something about it or get the #@$% out. Internal criticism is perfectly acceptable and justified, but outwardly directed expressions of dissent are unneccessary and uncalled for.

[Bill Brown]

It doesn't take military experience to understand the destructive power of tank artillery, C-130 gun ships, air strikes, etc. We, the United States of America, are using these weapons in densely populated residential areas. Aside from destroying people's homes, shops and property if they managed to flee, many people for various reasons cannot flee and suffer the deadly consequences. When non-combatants are knowingly killed in massive numbers, it's terrorism. We are the world's most deadly terrroists.

[Bill Brown]

Originally posted by kpaske
Wow, so I guess you watch the news from Al Jazeera or Communist China? Those guys really get to see what's "actually happening", huh? Now I'm not a big fan of the media, but don't you think if it were "owned and controlled" by the right-wing there would be a lot less of the negative images of Iraq? The media does put their own spin on things, but it's usually all about what will get people to tune in, not some political agenda.

I guess you missed the Pappas Media Corp issue a week or so before the election. Pappas owns most of the mainstream radio and television stations here in Central California. They offered the GOP, not the DNC, $325.000 of free air time to use as they like. Just a little bit biased.

[Rooster]

And that would most likely counter act the free advertising the 3-4 major tv stations gave kerry.


BTW, I'm just waiting for the kerry bankruptcy news byte. Seeing as he spent 25M of his own money in his bid for POTUS.

[Heraclid]

Wow, I've seen it but hadn't read this thread yet. Had no idea it concerned me.

The avatar stays. My avatar is a reflection of who I am, just like everyone else's. Who I am will not be dictated to me because someone can't handle it. It would be pretty ridiculous to set a standard like that, because everything offends somebody. I have to wonder how anyone who would ask such a thing even functions in this world. And Saddam is an evil man and deserves whatever he gets. You are quite fortunate not to have had to learn that the hard way.

I appreciate the things everyone has said, and I appreciate any of you who are veterans most especially. I am as passionate about this stuff as most anybody, and believe me, part of me would love to get a good debate going on this stuff. However, I have learned it is hopeless. I haven't given up the fight and my beliefs will not waver, but I have decided that for the good of everyone here it is best not to go down this road - not here anyway. You all may do what you wish of course, but I appeal to all of you to consider doing the same. I just don't want to see this wonderful group of people get fractured in a pissing match that ultimately changes nothing for anybody politically but wrecks this VX community. That would be a sad day indeed. It just isn't worth it folks.

[Dallas4u]

I think this thread is in the wrong forum. Although I usually read from the front page and not scouring different forums, this should have been posted in Chit-Chat to keep it from VX related threads.

[Capri]

quote: Now I don't think ALL criticisms are painted as "treason". But gathering together as many people as possible to publicly display to the world that you don't support your commander-in-chief could be viewed that way. The way I see it, if you don't like the direction your country is headed, you have two choices. Try to do something about it or get the #@$% out. Internal criticism is perfectly acceptable and justified, but outwardly directed expressions of dissent are unneccessary and uncalled for.

55 million people that voted for someone other than Bush think differently on how the nation should be led. If it's a cause that's worth fighting for, it's nowhere near treasion. I use the example that if a father lost the custody of his children on a technicality in a law through no fault of his, and the court already decided - could you blame the father for trying after the court has ruled? or stand back and be an American and falsely support something that you don't agree with. I'm not talking about wanting to overturn the election, that's over with. But if you believe strongly in some of the popular issues like abortion, stem cell research, and the Iraq war, there's no shame in announcing that you think differently than the commander in chief.

Having the perfect president is impossible, but wanting one should not be a crime or labeled as doing something treason-like.

Anyways, I'm going to stop talking about this, getting sick of it. Back to the VX baby!!!

[kpaske]

55 million people that voted for someone other than Bush think differently on how the nation should be led. If it's a cause that's worth fighting for, it's nowhere near treasion. I use the example that if a father lost the custody of his children on a technicality in a law through no fault of his, and the court already decided - could you blame the father for trying after the court has ruled? or stand back and be an American and falsely support something that you don't agree with. I'm not talking about wanting to overturn the election, that's over with. But if you believe strongly in some of the popular issues like abortion, stem cell research, and the Iraq war, there's no shame in announcing that you think differently than the commander in chief.

My only point is if you want to make changes in the U.S., you're only recourse is to debate it within the U.S. If a father loses custody of his kids in Maryland, what sense does it make to go crying about it to Delaware, where he has some simpathizers? Posting to web sites that further degrade the international view of America and its government does nothing to improve the state of affairs within America. Sending out that type of message is counterproductive, only serves to further divide this country, and I can't see any possible good coming out of it.

[doubleadesign]

i like the avaitar. i'm not offended.

[Joe_Black]

Originally posted by Dallas4u
I think this thread is in the wrong forum. Although I usually read from the front page and not scouring different forums, this should have been posted in Chit-Chat to keep it from VX related threads.

Agreed. We need to have a political frag-fest section. ;eeko;

[MachineVX]

The Avatar reminds me of Whack-A-Mole.

You hammer down one fascist and another just pops up . . .

kinda expresses the futility of changing things via military aggression

[dutchie]

Can we set one thing straight....the meaning of the word liberal..


Liberal according to the Bush administration and its supporters:

a leftwing radical and a supporter of the appeasement of terrorists.

Liberal according to the Concise Oxford English Dictionairy:

someone who is favorable to democratic reform and individual liberty and moderately progressive.

So my dear US republican friends, in accusing someone of being a liberal, means 1-you have to go back to school and pick up some history lessons or 2-you're just parotting the words of a president who already has shown on several occcasions not to be the brightest star in the sky or 3-you're a closet democrat, just badmouthing people in the hope nobody ever discovers your true identity;)

Never argue with an idiot - make him president

[WormGod]

*yawn*

Any reason this "push me' shove you" thread is continuing.... in a VX Talk section? Political discussion always ends up going down a dead end road. :argue: Probably not the smartest of debates to start if you want to keep friends.

Please, just allow me to push and shove both sides of this argument. I raspberry in both directions. Whether you're an illiterate red stater or an anal retentive blue stater.... feel the wrath of my rolling eyes. :rightg: Me? I'm from the moon, so it's a spectator sport for me. ;Dy;

[cooks 7]

that I'm sorry sight was the most annoying thing I have ever seen, I got through about 4 of them before I was so pissed off I had to leave. It's a democracy, the majority, no matter how small elected Bush so get over it, if you're really that upset, then go to another country and come back in 4 years, if you win then....damn hippies.

by the way, I love the avatar, I need one of me beating down a hemp wearing tree hugger

[Triathlete]

And I'm sure all those appologizing on that site will be spared from the next suicide bombing! We all know that they don't bomb, kill or harm in any way any "innocent" people when when they send in the car bombs, airliners etc.
I'm done here now!

[kinnaq]

First off, I don't recall Heraclid asking anyone if they approve of his "avatar" or not. With that being the case, I will not offer an opinion on it.

This is directed at those who would like to control what other folks do, say & think.

Too bad the world isn't shaped according to your own personal belief's, isn't it? Because if it was, we would all look the same, sound the same, eat the same, dress the same, blah blah blah and so on. Wouldn't that be an exciting place to live?

I will ask you this: why don't you open your mind up to the fact that not everyone is going to think along the same path as you?

Three different people can see the same thing three different ways. Take a glass of water for instance, I see that it is half full, another says that it is half empty and yet another says it is just right. Who is to say which is correct?

Lastly, it is just a damn avatar. Is it going to throw the world into chaos? Is it going to cause little old ladies to curse and spit on the ground? Is an asteroid going to crash into earth?

Are malevolent HUNGRY beings from another galaxy speeding here this very minute - hell bent on herding all humans to a giant cookout, where we will be the main course?

-then get out and enjoy your VX, life is much too short to worry about an avatar.

[SlowPro48]

Originally posted by kinnaq
Are malevolent HUNGRY beings from another galaxy speeding here this very minute - hell bent on herding all humans to a giant cookout, where we will be the main course?


Dude, they're already here... and they're doing just that... so maybe instead of stirring the pot - we should jump out of it!

;Dy;

[BaM*BaM]

I think that some of our more fanatical jesus club people here, should make their avatar from the old, stinky cheese sandwich, "supernatural miracle" of jesus's mama's picture


http://www.users.qwest.net/~pempem/WorthyBig.gifhttp://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20041123/capt.sge.inz07.231104171439.photo00.photo.default-278x319.jpg



An online casino said it placed the winning 28,000-dollar bid for a 10-year-old partly eaten grilled cheese sandwich, seen here, said to bear the image of the Virgin Mary, and wants to take it on a world tour

[Anita]

Heck, it looks more like Marlene Dietrich... :laughr:

[StormTROOPER]

Dats not the Virgin Mary, it's Madonna as in "Like a virgin"

[AlaskaVX]

Wooooo, and the whole time I thought it was just a scene out of Office Space? Heraclid jumps 10 pts on the cool meter.

[Dallas4u]

Where's the Jesus Crust? Or might I say, Cheesus Crust? ;)

[Joe_Black]

Originally posted by Dallas4u
Where's the Jesus Crust? Or might I say, Cheesus Crust? ;)

ROTFLMAO! :laughg:

Actually, it really looks amazingly like Che Guevara.