Another window fix.

[cascabel3]

My driver side window had the exact issues described by Moncha and various other members. The window seemed to have a slight forward tilt, and upon closing, would get stuck tilting backwards. I looked at Moncha's fix and followed his advice, but it wasn't enough in my case. The window rail (the center lift where the cable is) appered to have a little play allowing for a slight tilt when going up and down.

My fix was quick and easy, I removed the window and braced it up. I took a drill and bit and started drilling/cutting upwards on the bracket hole on the right side. Be careful not to drill through the door :-)

Upon re-installing the window I made sure that the bracket would now fit as high up in the extended hole as possible, tilting window tight to the left. Tighten down and voila. It goes as smooth as it should be and I can't wait 'till the passenger side starts screwing up.;Dy; ;)
Pics available upon request.

[biju]

Count me in for some pics... Thanks: snosecret@yahoo.com

-biju.

[TechnoPope]

I am suffering the same window problem. Would you please send your pics to me at metabaron01@yahoo.com. Thanks.

[Joe_Black]

If you'd like (and don't mind) I'd be more than happy to add the pics and procedure to the tech section on my website so that we may all benefit from your ingenuity.

[LukeVX]

i would love some pics as well! lukeeditor@hotmail.com

thanks

Luke

[dkmiller68]

pics please
dkmiller68@comcast.net
thanks
:D

[kpaske]

Yes, I would like to see the pics also. If you don't have a site to host them, e-mail them to me (and/or Joe_Black) and we'll post links to them so everyone can see.

kpaske@hotmail.com

[Joe_Black]

Got the pics and the fix from this post and it's now up for all to see. Give a big "THANK YOU!" to cascabel3 for sharing this info! :thanx:

Window Fix (http://www.antiquecaterpillar.org/vx/Technical/Window.asp)

[thebear54]

Count me in on those pics....would be great not to have to grab the window every time I want to close it.....especially at 65 mph:D John

[Nazrat]

That's the fix that I did a few months back. I have to roll down the driver's window twice per day, and the window is still as smooth as silk.

-Tad

[cascabel3]

Thanks for posting the pics Joe. Just went on to your site, really nice work on then tranny fluid change. Nice site. Look forward to seeing more there withn your future projects.

[PurPa Trader]

I have a 1999 ironman 4 two yrs now. and have had no problems with the windows. But I do wax (car wax) both inside and outside of the glass and tint ,and put silcone on the rubber at the bottom , and the windows just fly down or up...as long as its not out... :clap:

[kpaske]

...But I do wax (car wax) both inside and outside of the glass and tint...

Seriously? You wax your windows???

[Heraclid]

I did this fix and it didn't have any effect. Not saying it's no good, just didn't work in my case. I can offset the bracket all I want to and the bracket will still pop away from the metal track. The bracket sort of rides a metal track and for me there seems to be way too much play in the bracket - perhaps too much slack in the wire it is raised and lowered by, allowing it to come away from the track? In my driver's side door, the left side of the bracket comes completely away from the metal track when the window gets about halfway up. The design is poor because one of the guides on the bracket is designed to grip the track, but they didn't make all of them that way. Go figure. Now I have to get back in there because since I tinkered with it I now have a door rattle. Anyone got any more ideas?

[redline]

Can't get to mine till the weather warms up,my passenger side window is falling forward a little, preventing a good seal.

[BritVX]

Just one point before we all go drilling holes out.
Sometime back before the site revamp I posted an alternative window fix that didn't require any drilling holes or bending runners etc.
Assuming the window mechanism on US versions is the same as the Japanese the following should work.
Having removed the door panel.
When looking at the lifting mechanism you need to feel (or look with a mirror) for the fixing screws that hold the window mounting bracket to the lift mechanism. On my VX these screws are in slots and my window was all the way back (towards the door pillar) in them, therefore the window fell forwards when it moved up.
I undid the screws pushed the window and mount backwards and tightened them up, it gave about 1/2" of movement. This was enough to balance my window and make it run up and down with out a problem, and that was 6 months ago.

There is a chance you don't have the slots but I think it's worth looking before drilling.

Col

[Heraclid]

Hmmm... I'm skeptical (but hopeful) that it will work for me, and I appreciate the tip! I'll try it and see what happens.

[sam]

can someone email me those pics on how to fix the window tilting forward problem?

Please remember I'm no mechanic!!!!

Sam
London, UK

[Moncha]

Here's a link to them (http://www.antiquecaterpillar.org/vx/Technical/Window.asp)

[Bulldoggie]

I did this fix and it didn't have any effect. Not saying it's no good, just didn't work in my case. I can offset the bracket all I want to and the bracket will still pop away from the metal track. The bracket sort of rides a metal track and for me there seems to be way too much play in the bracket - perhaps too much slack in the wire it is raised and lowered by, allowing it to come away from the track? In my driver's side door, the left side of the bracket comes completely away from the metal track when the window gets about halfway up. The design is poor because one of the guides on the bracket is designed to grip the track, but they didn't make all of them that way. Go figure. Now I have to get back in there because since I tinkered with it I now have a door rattle. Anyone got any more ideas?
I finally pulled my door panel off, (drivers side)and the nylon nut tab was broke off from the window,(the one the regulator arm attaches to). I'm epoxying the tab back on the window, but I have to wait till tomorrow to see if it will hold. I quoted "Heraclid" because I also noted the regulator arm carrier is pulling away at the top of the track, (I'm using needle nose vice grips to hold in place while it cures.). It looks like if you placed a washer or two between the door frame and the arm track, it might align the track with the window up position better. I cannot test if it would affect the window down position, but I don't think so.
I did the other fixes while I wait for the epoxy to cure. I'll take a few pictures so I'll have them, just in case I put the washers in, to clearify my describtion.
The moisture barrier was gone so the windows have been worked on before.

[Bulldoggie]

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/P1010001.JPG (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/P1010001.JPG)
Here is the picture.

[Nazrat]

If someone decides to give up on their Isuzu regulators, you could install what the custom car & hotrod folks install. Those kits are pretty generic and will let you put the support under the glass where the glass balances, and it can be shimmed away from the inner door skin until it is parallel with the track of the window.

Something like:
http://www.specialtypowerwindows.com/streetrodkits.htm

Or:
http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=partdetail.asp?part=ELI-CR45-6670-K

-Tad

[Bulldoggie]

I added about a 1/2" of spacers at the top and bottom to make the track tighter to the window. I could run the window up and down without bolting the window tabs and it stayed level.
widening the front rail and moving it forward is still important, it is still tight at the top. I think grinding about 3/16" off the front edge of the glass would be better but I'm not about to try that.
Happy to have my window back. THANKS, to ALL for these fixes.

[pbkid]

would u send me those photo's too? im gonna try and do both driver and passenger side this weekend. thanks. vteccars04@yahoo.com
pbkid

[Bulldoggie]

I did not take pictures of the spacers or washers, before closing the door back up, but in my photo, the bolts marked with the red arrows, are the upper track bolts, there are 2 more at the bottom of the track. I bought 1" #6 metric bolts, 4 per door and about 50 X 1/4" stainless steel washers. While the window was all the way up, I took out the upper 2 bolts leaving the bottom ones TIGHT.
Pushing the loose top part of the track outwards as much as you can with your fingers will give you the amount of washers to put in, BETWEEN the inner door skin and the track mount. (in my door it was close to ten washers)
After finding out how many to use, I rolled them like pennies in tape to hold them together, while putting them in place to bolt them. After tightening the top, I lowered the window all the way DOWN, and did the same with the bottom 2 track bolts. (almost the same amount as the top on mine)
This aligns the lift arm with the window guides, and keeps the window from wanting to tilt outward of the rubber guides.
Almost all VX's window are tight in the front, Hence the previous fixes.
I believe that after proper spacing of the track, unbolting the window from the arm, and like Bart's fix, make the arm bolt holes bigger in the rear to rebolt the window as far back as possible will take the friction out of the front guide. The rubber in my front guide was worn through from the glass, I'm suggesting this option as the front guide top is welded(by the Mirror), and NOT adjustable.
My window is working great and I can tell that it is not "fighting" to go up and down

[Bulldoggie]

Sorry I have a ten picture limit, but I just finished this repair after the brass insert ripped loose from the nylon window bolt. forcing another alignment to releave the binding. After all privious fixes the window had a tendency to tilt foward when raising as it came into the non adjustable mirror( about 4" from the top) part of the front guide that is widened and pushed foward in the Common "fix". the REAL issue is the window needs to move back into the rear guide. Each door is probibly a little different and where they glued the tabs on the window would make a lot of change in the adjustment also.
The discriptions are in the gallary, ALL pictures are of the DRIVER side only.
I will post the remaining 2-3 pictures tomorrow, but this should give you the idea. it's a strong regulator, they just left out the adjustability, and the dealers are not going to go to this much trouble to fix them for us
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/P10100011.JPG (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6521)http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/P1010002.JPG (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6522)http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/P1010003.JPG (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6523)http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/P1010004.JPG (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6524)http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/P10100052.JPG (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6525)http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/P1010006.JPG (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6526)http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/P10100071.JPG (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6527)http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/P10100082.JPG (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6528)http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/P10100092.JPG (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6529)http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/P10100101.JPG (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6530)

[Bulldoggie]

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/P1010012.JPG (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/P1010012.JPG)
This is the last picture that shows the window tab repaired with plumbers epoxy ready for door panel to go back. The front tab had the brass insert ripped out, I just squeezed it back in and useing a longer bolt, put a washer and nut on the back side for extra security.
( I tried to edit it into yesterdays post, But too many images for one post )
FYI: my passenger window has not yet broken, and may never need this much adjustment, but those of you, who have had broken window tabs with the binding, this post is for you. :luck:

[Bulldoggie]

Just an after thought, the door pull screwed to the inside door skin is not well reinforced, and may cause the sheetmetal to flex, changing the alignment

[Mantronix7]

Took my VX to a "Window & Windshield" expert shop to see what they could do with my power windows. After fiddling around for 30 mins, they told me that they added some spacers ( o-rings? ) and the window worked fine for a week. After a week the windows did'nt tilt forward but kinda slowed to a stop around 2/3 ways up.

I went back and they said the inner and outer window rubber seals have lost their ( velvet?) lining on the inside due to aging. Checked the local Isuzu dealers here but you probably heard that song before. :rolleyes:

A can of silicone spray on the inside of the seals worked a miracle and it's been over 3 weeks without any problems. Windows rolled up and down as smooth as silk.

[transio]

Mant,

The silicon spray is only a temporary solution... If you want a perm fix, you'll have to spread the tracks open slightly. Do a search.

[Doc]

Thank you everyone for your input here, most particiularly Bulldoggie who really got the meat of the issue, that being FLEX.

When these mechanisms are new they don't exhibit a lot of flex or excessive freeplay and that's why they probably escaped the factory notice before production. If the factory had lowered/rasised them a few thousand times, I'm sure it would have become apparent and to be honest, fixing it was dead easy.

I didn't drill any holes. I wanted to see if I could fix this without resorting to that level. I think I did manage this.

First, after removal of the door panel ... was to unbolt the guiderail that the lift regulator uses to run the window retaining or lifting bracket up and down along. In stock condition, you can see where the angle of the guiderail, the lack of holding tabs on the 2 rear guideclips, and flex of this unit under operation causes movement of the window glass inside the plastic window holding clips on the window raise/lower mounting bracket, allowing the front to get "stuck" in the tight window frame runner while the back tries to continue raising and then the glass moves in the clips (because it isn't fixed well enough) allowing the flex of the badly mounted guiderail to permit even more freeplay to occur, and you have one bastard stuck window situation.

Once you unbolt the 4 bolts that retain this window regulator guiderail from the inner door panel ... go get 4 x 3/4" (or 1" if you prefer) bolts of the SAME METRIC THREAD (do not use imperial sized bolts) ... I think they are 6mm but you can easily match them with one of the ones you took out of the door, right ? B) Use a nut that matches to be sure that the threads have the same pitch, because your new bolts are going straight back into the welded nuts you'll find mounted on that window regulator guiderail. Get 24 or 28 (ok 30 in case you drop a couple in the grass) of flat washers to use for the Bulldoggie Spacer Trick. I used 5 on each bolt (6 might be even better) and one for each bolt head as the factory ones were flanged and your hardware store replacements will probably not be. Once you have it all tightly bolted back into place, it's obvious how much this eliminates the flex and regulator guide tabs leaving the guiderail ... the source of 90% of the problem in the first place.

I then moved the two plastic window holding brackets forward the 1/4" or available freeplay that was apparent, to balance the window pivot point further forwards (it's not much but every little bit helps) and reduce the tendancy to lift the rear, while the front sticks, causing the glass to tilt forwards and leave the window frame along the back edge.

I then epoxied liberally over both holding clips ...basically burying the plastic holding clips completely in PC-7 Heavy Duty Epozy Paste ... so that you couldn't see the clips anymore and the epoxy sets on the glass itself locking the clips inside. This stops the glass from moving in the clips which is where the dynamics of the window lift and the rearward bias of the regulator arm create a tendancy to generate flex that manifests itself through the freeplay of the glass mounted in those plastic holding clips. Since you eliminated the exaggeration of this with the repositioning of the guiderail outwards with the previous Bulldoggie Spacer Trick, then when you elimiate the movement or flex in the holding clip/glass interaction by burying it in this excellent PC-7 Heavy Duty Epoxy ... you're 99% fixed and long term too I might add.

Last thing. The last little 1%. Lithium grease. Run some of this inside the front rubber window guide just around (above and below) the sill line where the glass first rises out of the door skin. This is where the usual tight spot or binding occurs.

Leave the epoxy 24 hours to cure (at 70 degrees, more time if it's colder) and try to brace the glass INWARDS with a block of wood or something between the rear holding clip and the outside door panel while the epoxy is setting. This will help keep it all tight, and reduce flex or freeplay after everything is cured.

And that's it. Put the door trim panel back on (the front part of this can be really tricky to get in but don't force it until you KNOW you have it in the correct position (good advice at any time with anything B) and even then, don't force it too much although it might need some muscle to "click" into place.

No drilling. Total time about 1 hour not including curing time for the epoxy.

Cost to fix ... $10.

Working reliable electric window glass ...

Priceless. Heh heh ... never did that whole mastercard thing before. It wasn't that funny afterall. B)

[tysamigo]

OK, I'm confused. I've read several different ways to fix the window problem.

Could someone tell me which is correct and which works long term?

My door panels and everything are taken off and I'm ready to tackle this today.

Thanks

[CoastieCosta567]

silicon spray the rubber rails. thats all i did, and it's been fixed ever sense i bought mine.

[tysamigo]

Costie,

I've tried that and although it did help, my windows are still awful. It really needs to be fixed with some elbow grease. I'm ready to do it but not sure which to follow.

Do I relocate the window regulator track?

Do I add washers between the door panel and track?

Do I relocate the window's holders (small white plastic U-shaped holders) on the window and adjust them (or one of them) closer to the front of the truck?

I'm checking back every few minutes in hopes for a reply. The VX is outside w/panels off ready to be worked on.

[Bulldoggie]

Your on the right thread. study, study, study....
it's all here.
Start with Moncha's link to bart's fix. this is the most common first step.
While you are looking at the lift arm, remove the window tab bolts and see if the glass wants to rest on the arm. if it does, you do not need to do the spacers. if Not, follow the spacer instuctions.
Since you have the glass unbolted, push the glass rearward as far as it wants to go into the rear guide. While the glass is in this position, look at the lift arm holes and see if they still line-up with the window tab holes. IF they do, put the bolts back in and lube your tracks, knowing that they are in alignment.
Since I know that they are going to line-up, it's only by a matter of how much, If it's a little or alot, and how far do you want to go to repair.

You could try to reglue the window tabs.
You could try to slot the arm holes to meet the window tabs (only if a little off)
You could try to slot the four holes that hold the lift arm assy.
All three could work, you have to choose which.

FOR EVERYONE WHO ONLY NEED TO LUBE THEIR TRACKS, KEEP CLOSING YOUR DOORS SOFTLY, OR YOU WILL BE HERE WITH SOMETHING OTHER THAN LUBE TO SAY.

[JHarris1385]

Ty talk to David IndianaVX he doesnt live far from you and he has first hand knowledge of the window fix. I keep meaning to visit him sometime to learn how to fix my window.

[Mark B]

pictures please when you get a chance.
Mark
mark1500pvd@msn.com

[tysamigo]

Your on the right thread. study, study, study....
it's all here.
Start with Moncha's link to bart's fix. this is the most common first step.
While you are looking at the lift arm, remove the window tab bolts and see if the glass wants to rest on the arm. if it does, you do not need to do the spacers. if Not, follow the spacer instuctions.
Since you have the glass unbolted, push the glass rearward as far as it wants to go into the rear guide. While the glass is in this position, look at the lift arm holes and see if they still line-up with the window tab holes. IF they do, put the bolts back in and lube your tracks, knowing that they are in alignment.
Since I know that they are going to line-up, it's only by a matter of how much, If it's a little or alot, and how far do you want to go to repair.

This is exactly what I did. For each original bolt I used (1) Stainless Steel 1" (25mm) 6mm bolt with (9) 6mm stainless steel spacers (Bulldoggie's spacer fix). On the front side I used an extra (1) 6mm stainless steel washer and (1) lock wash. I did this to all 4.

OH MAN what a difference!! I didn't reslot anything at all, I just added spacers. The window goes up and down without tilting like it was. It still does it but the amount of space that "gives" or "tilts" now is about the diameter of a quarter (maybe 2 at the most). It's nearly perfect without any drilling. I then lubricated the seals with Silicon Spray heavily.

The window goes down just fine (as always) however when it goes up, although it is nearly perfect going up, it is still slow. It's nowhere near as slow as it was before but it is certainly much slower going up than going down.

My question is, would this put pressure on the motor and/or regulator to the point of replacing it sooner than "normal"?

Once the washers were in, the window arm holes and the window tab holes are almost perfect lining up now so I didn't see a need to slot anything. Should I however do it anyways? Would this fix the speed of going up?

I think I've almost got it but just need to tweek it. If however no body feels like this is wearing down the motor or regulator then I'll keep it as is.

THANKS SO MUCH everyone. I mean just doing the spacers alone is a DRAMATIC difference. I'm now just concerned about the speed going up and if it is affecting the life of the motor and regulator.

Thanks

[Bulldoggie]

pictures please when you get a chance.
Mark
mark1500pvd@msn.com
Post #27

[tom4bren]

I posted elsewhere that I had replaced all of the rubber from the front track with felt weatherstrip. It worked. It was easy. I still have to add some more felt to cut down on wind noise but that will be easy too. Sorry, I haven't done the passenger side so that I could take pictures as I do it but hopefully soon. BTW you do still have to lube the rear track even with the felt on the front.

Personally I think this is the easiest permanent fix but that's just my opinion. You know what they say about opinions: "opinions are like _______, everyone has one" (you can fill in the blank).

[JHarris1385]

So I did this washer trick and it sounds like it is going to burn my motor. It is VERY slow now and still did not fix the forward tilt. I plan to take the washers out. Maybe that SBC will fix that.

[tom4bren]

Check the front track to make sure there is nothing gumming it up. Clean it good. Lube it till it drips and try again. Remember that a lot of the source of the problem is that the rubber track has too much friction against the glass. All of the other fixes will be useless if you don't handle that.

Still haven't converted my passenger window track over to felt but I still plan on it ... eventually.