Isuzerati [Text View] - VehiCROSS.info Forums

Anita

12/21/2004, 10:46 PM

Funny thing happened to me last week and this thread reminded me of it. Everyday I pass a Maserati dealership on my way to work. Big glass windows with lots of beautiful expensive toys in it. Ferraris as well. A stop light right there which I always end up stopping at and peering into the showroom.

One day as I was waiting at the red light I had my daily look into the showroom to see if any of the cars had been sold. I saw a couple along with a salesman checking out this sweet sky blue Maserati convertable. I looked at the light and then back again to the showroom. To my surprise I found three faces looking back at me. Three smiling faces and a salesman who gave me a quick thumb's up.

THey had good taste. ;Dr;

Maugan_VX

12/22/2004, 12:54 AM

someone needs to find that "clown" and introduce his little maserati sticker to a razor blade and goop-off.

God, WHAT IS SO DAMN SHAMEFUL ABOUT WEARING THE ISUZU BADGE?

Hanalei

12/22/2004, 05:31 AM

I think the guy in the other forum got it right, it's a VX owner with low self esteem. Maybe they should sell it and buy themselves a Cooper.

driver3

12/22/2004, 06:22 AM

sort of the same as peeling off the 3. in 3.5L... or putting NASA on the back...

and I agree with Maugan.. why not leave the isuzu on it.. maybe that's why they are doing so bad.. no one likes them.. I love mine.. I leave all the badges on it.. I hope more people buy them so they quit closing all the dealerships...

Bobster

12/22/2004, 07:01 AM

I know that road. It's River Road in Louisville, KY. I drive it every day. I believe I have seen this Ebony several times. But, never following. That name plate is probably from my old '85 BiTurbo I sold some time ago. I don't think he/she has ever been on this board. Raque has the other Ebony in the area.

transio

12/22/2004, 07:07 AM

Originally posted by coachreed
Is it just me or are there TWO Elise sittin in the driveway with your VX? Please don't tell me you have TWO of them... Nice pics BTW. There's one in the garage, too, but I don't have even one Elise yet (and may never due to ingress/egress issues). Easy explanation. Not my house and not my Elises!!! :D It was an Elise club BBQ at one of the other members' houses.

WormGod

12/22/2004, 07:10 AM

Wow, that is just CHEESEY! I think I'm gonna start walking around with a shirt on that says "I am a tiger. Hear me roar".

:rolleyes:

yal^

12/22/2004, 07:48 AM

Excuse me, but how is this different from someone putting Posrche bagdes on VX?
If I remeber corectly we had this discusssion a few months ago... I think it was a member of this board, but I cant seem to find that thread....

transio

12/22/2004, 07:59 AM

Personally, I just don't like the way the Isuzu badge looks. It's big and ugly and poorly designed. I much prefer a logo or crest or badge to plain uncreative lettering - and not only did they chince out on making a decent crest, but they then made their ugly *** lettering as big as possible. Damn right I'm gonna rip that sh*t off! I also didn't like the VehiCROSS lettering. Gone too. That's why I debadged them... Sue me. I may eliminate the 3.5L and 4wd just because they look awkward there by themselves now..

You couldn't pay me to put a Maserati or Mercedes or Ferrari badge on, though. That's just plain kitsch.

As for "representin" for Isuzu... why? What have they done for me? I have no particular loyalty to the brand, and I could care less if they succeed or fail. Other than the VX, they've made no vehicle that has even interested me..... and even the VX is beginning to annoy me in little ways.

Cyrk

12/22/2004, 08:02 AM

It was Ferrari badges... :rolleyes:

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4210&highlight=Ferrari

yal^

12/22/2004, 08:11 AM

you see.... it's not enough I can't slep Porshe I got the wrong make... I apologize... LOL
Then again, how is that different?

Maugan_VX

12/22/2004, 08:26 AM

As for "representin" for Isuzu... why? What have they done for me? I have no particular loyalty to the brand, and I could care less if they succeed or fail. Other than the VX, they've made no vehicle that has even interested me..... and even the VX is beginning to annoy me in little ways.

You own and supposedly love a vehicle that they made. I think that'd be enough. Is it because Isuzu isn't a Lexus, an Infinity, a porsche? Is it because when someone looks at an isuzu, they don't go "damn that guy must be someone important"? Is it because that even though the VX is just like any other isuzu underneath the body, you don't want to associate yourself with an Amigo?

I'm not saying these are true, but I truely don't understand this animosity people hold towards the company that created the VX and I'm just trying to gain insight into the thoughts behind people that do this. To be honest with you I bought the VX because my previous two Zu's lasted forever, and just refused to die. I think I owe the company that made it a debt of gratitude for giving me my money's worth. To de(re)badge is simply insulting in my eyes, regardless of how it looks.

I shouldn't care, but I admit it does bother me.

spaceCADETzoom

12/22/2004, 10:44 AM

^completely agree.

Most reliable vehicle my family has ever owned is an Isuzu Trooper... close to 200,000 miles, still ticking, never a hiccup. I can understand not liking the huge lettering, to each thier own. But if you're ashamed it's an Isuzu...i don't get that.

AS for putting on maserati, mercedes, ,whatever badges...that's another matter...and that's a "whatever floats your boat" thing too, for me.

But it's an isuzu. It always will be. If you need to get over it, get over it. But isuzu has done right in my book...

cascabel3

12/22/2004, 10:52 AM

I just can't believe anyone would call the VX "ugly" :thumbdn:

As far as 4wds go, I think this is the sleekest machine I have ever seen. I thought that just yesterday as I sat in my garage looking at mine. Granted, I had two drinks by then, but that only took her from best to bester.

And I had a 1991 Trooper before that. Unbeatable, never let me down. When I bought mine from a private party I had no idea I still had a 60k warranty on it. I found out getting her serviced at a local dealership.

Isuzus have their glitches (idle was always weird with the Trooper) but so does every make. And there are symbols I have seen being used by other VXers on this site instead of the Isuzu emblems, some of them pretty cool. The VX is a Cobra, this is what I may put on someday.

AlaskaVX

12/22/2004, 11:01 AM

HEHEHEHE Its a blast to de(re)badge with NASA stickers, you really wouldn't believe the amount of people who say "Is that really made by NASA?" And you can't beat the track anouncer "And here is the NASA Vehicross, it's been to the moon and now it's here at Alaska Raceway Park!"

We have such a rare vehicle you can tell more than half the people out there it is something else and they will believe it. I normally set the people straight but it is fun to mess with them for a while.

transio

12/22/2004, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by Maugan_VX
You own and supposedly love a vehicle that they made. I think that'd be enough.

...

Is it because Isuzu isn't a Lexus, an Infinity, a porsche? Is it because when someone looks at an isuzu, they don't go "damn that guy must be someone important"? Is it because that even though the VX is just like any other isuzu underneath the body, you don't want to associate yourself with an Amigo? You're arguing 2 points here: 1) I should advertise for Isuzu because I own one and therefore must love it, and 2) I shouldn't be embarrassed to own an Isuzu. Here are my responses:

Love? Well, I like it a lot. :) But I don't really love it. SUVs aren't really my style in general, but the VX is nice. If it were manual, 300+ hp, and 3000 lb curb weight I'd love it. :) As for responsibility to Isuzu... that's flawed logic, man. I don't owe them crap. I bought an Isuzu, therefore increasing market demand for their vehicles. That's enough for them to succeed. I have absolutely no reason to use the real-estate on the back of my vehicle to advertise for them. In the near future, I intend to use it to advertise for my company. That's the real reason I cleared it up. I'm just waiting to get my website done, and then there's gonna be a big old www.transio.com sticker where that ISUZU used to be.

I'm not at all embarrassed to own an Isuzu. Whenever someone asks, I tell them exactly what it is and how much I paid for it. I stand by my statement that the Isuzu emblem is ugly as sh*t, though. This is purely a matter of aesthetics. I know people who have removed the L-O-T-U-S lettering from the backs of their Elises. Using your logic, this would necessarily imply that they're embarrassed to own a Lotus? That's illogical. They removed it because the lettering looks like crap. Some replaced it with the Lotus badge. Isuzu doesn't have a badge, or I'd probably have one (if it weren't ugly as crap).

MachineVX

12/22/2004, 11:13 AM

I don't like the huge ISUZU on the back, either. I'm going to replace it with a plain Vehicross badge

marximus

12/22/2004, 11:24 AM

i have taken all isuzu badges off, simply because they are ugly. i like the look of the VX badge on the grill, and i like the look of the clean rear...thats it. i am PROUD that it is an isuzu. i drove a 94' rodeo before this guy, and it was an awesome rig. when someone asks me what it is.. i tell them. as for the ones that dont ask, i guess they will never know, but i am not going to leave an ugly isuzu badge on just so they could.

my pops has put on ferrari stickers on his, and no he is not a clown. he intention is to play around with those who have no clue what it is, just for kicks. and believe me, a lot of people fall for it.:rolleyes: he is not trying to boost his ego or whatever. just for fun, just like why this guy put masarati on his VX.
cheers!
mark-

transio

12/22/2004, 12:02 PM

Maybe we should design our own ISUZU crest to replace the ugly POS stock one?

transio

12/22/2004, 12:19 PM

Quick sketch

http://www.transio.com/stevenmoseley/vehicross/vxbadge.gif

Anita

12/22/2004, 01:14 PM

ooo, I like Transio,

How would it be to have the VX more prominent in the foreground with the Isuzu in background.

marximus

12/22/2004, 01:44 PM

i agree..VX in foreground, isuzu in background. you would need it to be resin coated as well, to give it depth. also, try it with a rectangular shape, rather than oval.

transio

12/22/2004, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by Anita
I like Transio I knew you had a crush on me ;)

Anita

12/22/2004, 02:21 PM

LOL :mbrasd:

Raque Thomas

12/22/2004, 06:02 PM

Hey guys - that's my VX, here's the response I just posted on the Lotus site:

Originally posted by MikeAR303
A vehicross owner with low self esteem who thinks they're fooling someone?

No, actually NOT an Isuzu owner with low self esteem. Low self esteem would be one of those people who buy the least expensive model of an exotic or luxury car so they can say they have one. My self esteem is fine - thank you.

"Ugliest vehicle since the Aztec"

No way man - nothing is that ugly, except that one car from the '70's, what was it.....oh yeh, the Lotus Europa. Actually, through my "informal" survey, I've found that the VehiCROSS (VX) is usually liked by men and disliked (often strongly) by women (kind of an "anti-babe magnet"!). So I am assuming by all these posts that most of the people on this forum who have chimed in are female? Oh, and one more thing, a little homework reveals that Simon Cox - a Lotus designer - was the designer of the VX. Hmmmm....you guys know anyone who will sell me their Lotus badges?....Lotisuzu....I like the sound of it!!!!

If you want to put a Lambo badge, and VW badge, or a badge that says kiss my ***** (thank you Transio!) on your car, that's your business - you paid for it right? I don't personally like what a lot of people have done to their vehicles - but hey - this America after all!

I don't know any of you and don't owe you an explanation, but I'm going to give you one anyway, my Christmas gift to you to help "broaden your horizons". The VX is a great vehicle, VERY capable off-road, check the vehicross.info site to see some amazing things (it won the Dakkar rally), It has some pretty cool techno bits related to it (ceramic body molds, aircraft aluminum shocks with separate reservoirs, true computer controlled 4WD that senses wheel spin before it happens) not to mention a design that is 10 years old, but looks like it is from 10 years in the future (sorry ladies - I'm just talking to the guys here!), a full ladder frame, the shortest stopping distance of any SUV, and limited production of a concept vehicle. OK - so what's this have to do with the badge?? Well, I took off the god-awful Isuzu billboard on the back (about 1 1/2' tall!!) and people kept saying cool vehicle - what is it? As soon as I would say Isuzu, the next thing out of their mouth was "Oh" (let down tone in their voice). So I thought I would put a different badge on it - I toyed around with several and actually considered the Lotus badge because of the tie-in, but finally settled on the Maserati. Maserati has been the willing participant in more than one "poser" vehicle - most notably the Chrysler TC by Maserati, and the Bi-Turbo (Now I have the Maerati forum mad at me too!!), so it seemed to fit.

I do not EVER maintain that this vehicle is a Maserati product - other than, of course, the badge. :) 9 out of 10 people still ask me who makes it, even with the Maserati badge, and I now get the opportunity to tell them it is a concept car and about all the cool innovations before I tell them it is an Isuzu. Am I ashamed to drive an Isuzu? No, I love the vehicle - it does however deserve more respect.

Ladies, before I leave your neighborhood, I want to first of all thank you for the pictures you took of my VX - I have added them to my gallery, and second, I want to assure you that although you offended me with your comments, my intention was not to offend anyone here - I come in peace (and in jest!). Lastly, although I had lately been considering re-debadging my VX, I have decided because of this to continue my quest to educate the world about this great vehicle, and am now in search of Lotus badging - if any of you can help, please PM me!

TechnoPope

12/22/2004, 07:38 PM

Thank you, Raque. You hit the nail on the head. I hope Maugan_VX reads, and understands, your post. I drive a rebadged VX now and have had the same experience. It sure is a great conversation starter and provides a chance to talk about my VX. I never mislead anyone who asks that it is not an Isuzu.

JoFotoz

12/22/2004, 07:53 PM

...even if he was only ( arguably) "partly" responsible for the VX design.

The tirade about 'women' , was thankfully nothing more than white noise.

You dont NEED to justify your "personalization' , but it seems YOU do.

Enjoy , thats the beauty of diversification.

Jo

Maugan_VX

12/22/2004, 07:56 PM

Read.

The only thing it did is serve to prove to me that debadging is as stupid as I thought it was.

Well, I took off the god-awful Isuzu billboard on the back (about 1 1/2' tall!!) and people kept saying cool vehicle - what is it? As soon as I would say Isuzu, the next thing out of their mouth was "Oh" (let down tone in their voice). So I thought I would put a different badge on it - I toyed around with several and actually considered the Lotus badge because of the tie-in, but finally settled on the Maserati. Maserati has been the willing participant in more than one "poser" vehicle - most notably the Chrysler TC by Maserati, and the Bi-Turbo (Now I have the Maerati forum mad at me too!!), so it seemed to fit.

So yeah, you care to much what people think about you. While you may tell the truth to people that care to ask, 10 other uninformed idiots are driving along thinking you drive a maserati. Deep seated psychological problems, all of you debadging people. Asserting the illusion that you're capable of purchasing a vehicle thats made by a company who by its very nature is cost-prohibitive is something that might require heavy doses of psychotic repressants. Does it wretch your stomach everytime you look at the steering wheel and see the Isuzu emblem (as tiny as it is) in the middle?

Its ok, you're just one of the masses of Americans to whom your vehicle becomes your social status symbol.

TechnoPope

12/22/2004, 08:04 PM

My steering wheel is rebadged.

TechnoPope

12/22/2004, 08:05 PM

Stomach is fine.

Raque Thomas

12/22/2004, 08:07 PM

Originally posted by Maugan_VX
Read.

The only thing it did is serve to prove to me that debadging is as stupid as I thought it was.

So yeah, you care to much what people think about you. While you may tell the truth to people that care to ask, 10 other uninformed idiots are driving along thinking you drive a maserati. Deep seated psychological problems, all of you debadging people. Asserting the illusion that you're capable of purchasing a vehicle thats made by a company who by its very nature is cost-prohibitive is something that might require heavy doses of psychotic repressants. Does it wretch your stomach everytime you look at the steering wheel and see the Isuzu emblem (as tiny as it is) in the middle?

Its ok, you're just one of the masses of Americans to whom your vehicle becomes your social status symbol.

I don't give a rat's ***** waht people think of me - the uninformed idiots are just that - idiots! As for looking at the steering wheel, you obviousy didn't fully read one of my previous posts (even though you responded negatively to it) that my steering wheel has been debadged as well. As for "asserting the illusion that you're capable of purchasing a vehicle that's made by a company who by its very nature is cost-prohibitive" I'm not asserting **** - if I chose to buy that kind of vehicle, I certainly could. I've never been one to spend obscene amounts for a vehicle, or other possesion, but I've always been one to take very good care of what I have. I know plenty of people who brag about how much they spent on this or that - I've always been wired different, I prefer to brag about how little I paid for this or that, and what a deal I got. For those of you who have an IKEA store around, you may understand. My friends who spent $50,000 for their kitchen cabinets cannot believe that I spent less than half of that (AND got a better look!) on my ultramodern look. By the way, if you are a fan of modern decorating, and you don't live near a major city, check out IKEA.com, if you are ever in one of the few cities they have a store, check it out - you will be suprised (at minimum) and awe-stricken (at maximum) by the deals and what they have to offer.

My vehicle is not my status symbol; however, my vehicle is a big part of who I am, and is NOT just a means of transportation. You will rarely see it dirty, and although it only cost $21k I am VERY particular about it - don't close the door too hard, don't get fingerprints all over the door when you close it (a design flaw, in my opinion), don't eat in it, wash underhood every other outside wash, etc.

Maugan - I offer you the same advice I offerred the Lotus crowd - expand your horizons and realize that although everyone is not just like you, most of them are still OK. You and I have different viewpoints - that's OK, we have the admiration of this veicle in common, and probably a lot more things in common if we look hard enough. Let's just agree to disagree on this particular topic - if we ever meet in the future, we'll arm wrestle over it or something!

VX Grrrl

12/22/2004, 09:08 PM

Raque Thomas -

Some people just have no sense of humor. It's a shame that people feel the need to harass you over something so trivial. Though I wouldn't debadge my own vehicle, I do think the Maserati badge is funny and cool and I don't think you should remove it. Unless you find something even funnier and cooler to replace it with.

I saw a VX for the very first time just last month, and a week later....it was mine! I don't understand why anyone wouldn't like the VX when I was able to fall in love with it from the first glance. And I'm a girl.......how 'bout that?! ;eekp;

JoFotoz

12/22/2004, 09:20 PM

....must surely be the desire to drive something other than a Ford Taurus , a Rav 4 or an Exploder.

Isnt individuality something that makes the VX attractive to us?

Arent those that de-badge..re-badge..simply going a step further ?

An Englishmans home is his castle....
An Americans car is part of his 'id'....

Celebrate the satisfaction of primitive needs....

We ALL want to stand out in a crowd , and we all do it our OWN way.

Jo

dutchie

12/22/2004, 09:27 PM

Yeah Raque and why defend yourself against people who drive a car which is almost twice the price (at least here in Japan)of an VX, sits two skinny people, leaks when it rains gets beaten by a Vauxall and then needs a totota corolla engine to get even, etc etc.

Don't misunderstand me, I like the Elise, but the "cool" factor is way overrated, a TVR is cool an Enzo is cool, an Elise is cute.;)

Raque Thomas

12/22/2004, 09:43 PM

an Elise is cute.;) [/B][/QUOTE]

I was going ot respond to your post before I read this - but it just really put he icing on the cake! An Elise is cute - that is like the ULTIMATE put down!!! Do I have your permission to post this to the Lotus site? (Like I would wait for your approval :D )

dutchie

12/22/2004, 09:44 PM

he he get them boy!

spaceCADETzoom

12/22/2004, 09:47 PM

let's not turn this into a "my car's better than yours thread." There can't be a sane person out theere that is not flat out impressed by a Lotus Elise. Perhaps they have different engines in Japan...I know they do in Europe. But the US Elise has a v6 in a lil car that weighs 1900 lbs. Don't like sports cars? fine...each thier own. BUt don't like the elise because of its sports car characteristics..?

Different categories of automobile. I can't fault the VX for not being able to get 0-60 in under 9 seconds...

I like the VX for plenty things, but that aint one of them. I guess, like some folks, I like different things. WHile I'm attracted to the VX, I also have a 3rdGen RX_7. My urges should be covered all around... :)

technocoy

12/22/2004, 09:56 PM

everything in that style and size just screams MIATA to me. at least the vehicross was the one being copied, and not doing the copying. the elise is a miata is a Z3 is a S2000... bleh.

if your gonna buy a lotus, get an esprit.

spaceCADETzoom

12/22/2004, 10:01 PM

no offense, tecno...but do you know much about sports cars? miatas are as elemental as it gets to classic sports car.

again...let's not start flinging stuff toward other cars. Especially when those other cars are in a completely separate category...

I can safely say I love automobiles. Trucks, cars, sports cars, roadsters, history, design, engineering....

Outside of merely getting a car that "no one else has" for the simple need to stand out, can we all say that? I love the design and ideas behind the VX. As I do Datsun 240z's, Corvettes, and countless other autos...

dutchie

12/22/2004, 10:04 PM

Nope like I said, I like the elise, but it ain't no V6 "just" a 1.8 straight four corolla engine ....and no matter how much you tune it, a four cilinder car ain't cool...it's cute;)
Come to think it...an Mitsubishi Evo8 FQ300 is a cool four cilinder though.

spaceCADETzoom

12/22/2004, 10:06 PM

Again, as i wrote earlier....

the US spec elises are V6es. (not in japan)

spaceCADETzoom

12/22/2004, 10:09 PM

and as for "cute"...there are countless out there that would say the same about anything that comes out of japan...

heck...there are jeep owners that would call the vx cute. stop the mud flinging.

spaceCADETzoom

12/22/2004, 10:13 PM

i take back what i said about the v6. thought i recalled theyd be using the v6, from previous reports. looks like they went to a 4-banger. well, that *does* sorta change my opinion.... :)

technocoy

12/22/2004, 10:15 PM

if were gonna talk classic sportscar though, let's talk shelby cobra or daytona spyder... don't insult them by throwing miata in their class... yes, the elements are there... roadster, open top, etc. but if we're talking about something that makes your *** draw up, it ain't a miata... unless your about to flip it. my sister owns one, and it's about as cool as a ford escape to me. not bad little roadsters, and i don't mean to slam the miata at any rate. my point was to say the elise is a copy of a copy of a copy of a style of roadster that the miata unwittingly made popular again. and of course you can't compare the specs of an M class Z3 to a miata to an S200, etc... what i'm saying is a bunch of elise drivers should hardly be talking smack about the VX. you can't really put the VX in a class often times... at least you couldn't until it was copied... :-)

dutchie

12/22/2004, 10:18 PM

and as for "cute"...there are countless out there that would say the same about anything that comes out of japan...

I agree, my wife is CUTE!;)

technocoy

12/22/2004, 10:19 PM

if the jeep owners are calling it "cute" maybe it's cause all they see is it's nice round *** as it's pulling their wrangler out of the hole it dug.

;) :D

spaceCADETzoom

12/22/2004, 10:20 PM

Fair enough technocoy. I tend to agree with you about cobras, daytona spyders. But when I think miata I tend to get nostalgic about triumphs, mg's. I think it takes more from light, fun handling sports cars than powerful things like cobras (itself american muscle in a tiny british body).

technocoy

12/22/2004, 10:29 PM

I love an old triumph! but again i wouldn't put a miata even in the same class... now we're talkin vintage though!!! i like your taste in cars, man! minus the post 1970 corvettes and the miata of course... lol.

spaceCADETzoom

12/22/2004, 10:33 PM

No, I don't like miatas. I merely don't hate'em. And if you're talking corvettes from 70-96, i hate to say it, but i'm not too fond of them either...:)

JoFotoz

12/22/2004, 10:52 PM

.....the Miata was a copy too.

....a copy of the Lotus Elan.

thedutchguy

12/23/2004, 05:23 AM

Nope like I said, I like the elise, but it ain't no V6

Hey Dutchie,
How about this elise?

http://www.classicdriver.de/upload/images/_de/1712/img04pop.jpg

http://www.classicdriver.de/upload/images/_de/1712/img01pop.jpg

It has an audi V6 from rs4 and is made with official approval from Lotus!
Data: 420 hp, 0- 100 km/h in 3.7 sec, topspeed...........enough

dutchie

12/23/2004, 06:06 AM

nice!

VX_PA

12/23/2004, 08:20 AM

I have no love loss for ISUZU. The reason I got rid of mine was because of the terrible service that Isuzu and their feild reps provide to their so-called valued customers. Even debadging my old VX couldn't remove the bad taste in the mouth that Isuzu gives me. I like the look of the VX and on its own merit it's cool, but I will never even allow another Isuzu made product sit in my garage. So to sum this up:

ISUZU = plooyee!!

VX = thumbs up!

Now back to your regular scheduled thread,

VX_PA

P.S. I think everyone should remove their ISUZU badges!!

transio

12/23/2004, 09:04 AM

On The Elise:

You people who are coming down on the Elise better watch your words... there are some Elise enthusiasts here, too.

The Elise is the purest sports car on the planet. It has a 4 cyllinder engine by design, not by default. The original Esprit was a 4-cyllinder too, before its design got corrupted by power-hungry fools (mostly the american customer base) who associate 0-60 times with performance.

Lotus' philosophy is to design low weight, nimble and agile sports cars. They handle better than anything else on the planet. They are not designed for straight-line acceleration. You don't need a sports car for that - a sedan can tackle the task just fine (look at the M5).

The Miata is a true sports car. Those who don't believe that don't know what a true sports car is. The Miata has been the preferred sports car of autocross enthusiasts in the US for a decade.

Those who call the Elise a "copy" don't know a thing about automotive history. Lotus has been probably the biggest innovator in small, lightweight sports cars since it was founded. The Lotus Seven, one of the greatest sports car designs of all time, is still one of the best track performers today, as manufactured by Caterham and still in high demand.

Lotus is THE leading expert of suspension engineering, and has a big consultation business with other car manufacturers just helping them fine-tune the suspension of their cars. Remember the Isuzu Impreza? "Suspension by Lotus". That's called "bragging rights".

Raque Thomas

12/23/2004, 09:12 AM

Transio - I have nothing against the Lotus (with the exception of the butt ugly Europa!) - I think they look pretty cool, and I'm sure by now they have gotten their quality standards up to par. I'm just ragging on them in the other thread as a payback! Oh, and by the way, I won't try to steal your court jester position in that forum - so sorry ;)

MachineVX

12/23/2004, 10:05 AM

The Elise is awesome, and so is the Caterham Seven. Either could find a place next to my VX, if I could afford either.

spaceCADETzoom

12/23/2004, 10:35 AM

I think it's safe to say the hatred of cars like an elise or miatas are from people that dont generally like sports cars to begin with...

For the record, if my previous posts haven't pounded it in, I'm not one of those people.

On a side note about the 4-banger...if you cram American ideas of highpower engines into little itty bitty sports cars (i.e. shelby cobras)...how can you not like that? I like the elise just fine with a 4cyl, more than enogh to make me lust :)...but I'm just saying...

transio

12/23/2004, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by spaceCADETzoom
On a side note about the 4-banger...if you cram American ideas of highpower engines into little itty bitty sports cars (i.e. shelby cobras)...how can you not like that? I like the elise just fine with a 4cyl, more than enogh to make me lust :)...but I'm just saying... The problem is that it's nearly impossible to do both effectively. The few cars that have succeeded and kept a curb weight below 2500 pounds with a bigger engine (available in america):

Mosler MT900 Photon - 1980 lbs, 5.7L V8, 450hp, $200k
Noble M12GTO - 2200 lbs, 3.0L V6 TT, 350hp, $90k
Koenigsegg CC - 2425 lbs, 4.6L V8 SC, 650hp, $450k
Ultima GTR - 2300lbs, 5.7L V8, 600hp, $120k
Lotus Elise Esthi (shown above) - 2200lbs, 3.0L V6, 380hp, $200k (est.)

Those are about all the sportscars available under 2500 pounds with V6 or V8.

Notice something about them, though.... they're all FREAKING EXPENSIVE AS HELL !!! That's because Cost / Weight / Power are a 3-way balance. Increasing power and decreasing weight simultaneously have a significant impact on cost. Of course, you can ignore weight, but then you lose handling. Lotus chooses to give higher priority to handling and lower priority to power.

technocoy

12/23/2004, 12:51 PM

if you go through all the posts, i don't think anyone was coming down hard on anything except the corvette, and maybe a little on the miata. If you want to defend the miata, go to the miata forum, i'm defending my VX. I don't like it when elitist sports car snob start talking about the design (visual) of other cars some of the ugliest (percieved) cars in the world are some of the most bad-***. take a look at the bugatti veyron. You bring to everyones attention that people on an elise forum are making fun of one of our own and then you get ansy when we defend them with a little of their own medicine. Not a dig at all transio, i like everything i've seen you post on this forum, and i'm sure if i met you we would get along great, but people have opinions and i think they can express them here. I don't even think this conversation was getting out of hand. I find it fun to discuss this topic with people as i like to see peoples different ideas of "sports car". I LOVE LOTUS, so don't think I'm digging them out here. I'm simply pointing out that a sports car is a sports car is a sports car, and many are riding the waves of others, even if they had there own wave at one point. i don't deny that the elise is a sweet machine, but to say it is "true", may offend other "sports car" owners that you deny viablity simply because you think that handling and curb weight are the most important factors (along with lotus). but by that logic you would be telling me that a huge beast like the bugatti or the lambo or even the enzo (by elise standards of size) are not "true" sports cars. if your curb weight goes up make it lower and wider. And to say that acceleration isn't important is just silly. Have you ever track raced before? acceleration is one of the most important factors in being able to stay in it after a mishap or after a horseshoe. Everyone's opinion differs on the matter of what defines a sports car, and i am not denying the elise it's place, i'm simply saying that the elise, miata, Z3, etc, don't do it for me. (and even though i would typically be one of the first to slam an american car) give me a shelby cobra, a v6 esprit, or an old porsche open top any day of the week though. and yes, i love a good ol' MG or triumph (as far as pure goes).

I have truly enjoyed this conversation so far, but let's keep it friendly as i don't think anyone here has made an attemp to insult anyone, and i think that's what makes it fun. I hope i didn't offend any elise owners in the process, and i think my copy of a copy of a copy remark may have been taken the wrong way, as in no way do i deny the elise it's "true" sports car heritage.

as for the VX, let them talk smack, as in the the end, we still have a more limited vehicle than most people on the planet, and i didn't even pay HALF of what an elise owner paid. I can beat or keep up with many people on the pavement (especially once i get my SC) and then i can take it off-road in a fast and capable way. i don't hear of may vehicles that can do that in nearly the capacity that the VX does.

PEACE to ALL, and have a wonderful and joyful holiday!

transio

12/23/2004, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by technocoy
You bring to everyones attention that people on an elise forum are making fun of one of our own and then you get ansy when we defend them with a little of their own medicine. Not a dig at all transio, i like everything i've seen you post on this forum, and i'm sure if i met you we would get along great, but people have opinions and i think they can express them here. For the record, I was bringing the Isuzerati to everyone's attention - not the stabs at the VX in general. As for the Elise people making fun of the VX's looks, I think it was 1/2 picking on the truck, and 1/2 picking on me, because most of them know I have one. If you look at the thread in the other forum, I was defending the VX there, so why can't I also defend the Elise here? It wasn't my intention to say that other sports cars are not viable in other ways, but only that the Elise is a true sports car, "cute" or not. :)

PS - I'll leave Miatas for another discussion.

technocoy

12/23/2004, 09:21 PM

point taken, and again, i hope that i didn't offend, as that was not my intention.

To you and everyone else on the board, HAVE A HAPPY HOLIDAY, and a WONDERFUL NEW YEAR. I'll see you guys after the 1st.

Peas out,
technocoy

OneFastLotus

12/28/2004, 11:47 AM

Hey folks! Nice to meet ya!

Im the "Jackass" who posted the pics of the Vehicross. I guess I'll accept the Jackass since I did call you ( before I knew who you were) a Clown. Now we're even. I didnt mean for them to blow up like this though! lol

I posted this on the Elise board...but wanted to make sure Isuzerati saw it. The main body of what I said was posted on Elisetalk but I added some personalization for this VX thread so if the flow seems odd..thats why.

Here goes.....

WOOT WOOT!
I havent looked at this thread forever! I didnt realize the owner of the car came forward. What a SMALL world.

Thanks for calling me a Jackass. Oh, and I own a Lotus Elise too...and no, I didnt choose it because it was the least expensive of the line. Thought I'd clear that up now.

To those who feel "slighted" on the vehicross forum and, as such, feel the need to belittle the Elise....whatever makes you feel better. Rest assured however that 99% of the comments you took as being really rude were just said in jest within the "community" as jabs at Transio in jest.

I read through this thread and I have to say I found it entertaining. It's here I should probably add that I own MIATAS too. ;eekb; I can "discuss" miatas all day long. My AIM name is Mahatmablondie.

Most of the people here ragging on the VX were doing so because we know Transio has one and he's an accepted member here so we can rag on him and its ok cause' we all love each other. ;Db;

Yes, Im from Louisville. No, Ive never spotted your car BUT a friend did, and he posted the pics on a local message board to ask about it. PM me if you want the url. Everyone said it was just a vehicross with an emblem on it, but there were some who were sure so I posted here...as this board has a larger "european" fan base.

Anyhoo...I guess not many people understand why you put Maserati on the back of your car. Im one of them. It's not a bad thing. I just dont understand I guess.

I just looked over on the vehicross forum....I had no idea this would get so large. LOL. Look, noone meant to make fun of you per se. I honestly DID NOT know what kind of car it was. I THOUGHT it was a vehicross but I couldnt figure out why anyone would go to the trouble of putting a Maserati badge on it.

If you dont want attention like this from automotive enthusiasts, I'd suggest taking the Maserati ( or Lotus) badges off your Isuzu.
:mbrasd:

Cheers
Jennifer

Dallas4u

12/28/2004, 12:06 PM

No worries, Jennifer. Purchasing and owning a VX (or Elise for that matter) shows we can accept unusual designs as beauty or beast... which ever. Some people just have a hard time dealing with the not-so-positive comments about something they are so passionate about.

I understand many people think the VX is an ugly beast... and I don't really care. I'm not going to argue with them about it because I know someone arguing with ME about something I think is ugly wouldn't do much good... so, as they say, opinions are like buttholes! ;)

OneFastLotus

12/28/2004, 12:15 PM

Originally posted by Dallas4u
No worries, Jennifer. Purchasing and owning a VX (or Elise for that matter) shows we can accept unusual designs as beauty or beast... which ever. Some people just have a hard time dealing with the not-so-positive comments about something they are so passionate about.

I understand many people think the VX is an ugly beast... and I don't really care. I'm not going to argue with them about it because I know someone arguing with ME about something I think is ugly wouldn't do much good... so, as they say, opinions are like buttholes! ;)

Agreed.

Just to clear things up.....keep in mind that I never said I dont like the Vehicross. I did say that I think putting the wrong badges on your car is just plain stupid and makes someone look....well, like a clown. IMHO.

I like unusual looking vehicles.

I did notice that Raque said he hasnt seen many other Vehicrosses in Louisville.....I see at least 3 or 4 quite frequently in the St Matthews area. Two are yellow.