VX's BUMPY RIDE?!?!

[J A M E 5 W A T T 5]

I've owned my VX for about two months now and there is so much that I absolutely love about it -- the good looks, rarity, low cost (I paid 12.5k for a crisp Ebony w/ 65k from Pennsylvania)...however, the thing that is absolutely bugging me to the point of considering getting rid of it is its bumpy ride -- driving this bad boy to NYC leaves me getting tossed around the front seat! Are there any suspension/shock modifications/upgrades that are out there to cure this problem? I appreciate all of your replies and help in advance!

[Francesco Rizzo]

do a site search or internet search for rancho rs9000x shocks, they are adjustable so you can decide how fast you want to turn, or how much dirt you want to play in. There is even a remote control so you can adjust on the fly, but people talk about it having leaking issues and not working great. I keep mine at the softest setting all the time.. it makes my truck ride a lil bounce, but I love it

[thebear54]

As far as I know(which sometimes ain't much :p ) the stock shocks are adjustable up to a point to give you a softer ride. You are not going to get a a "Caddy" ride from a VX not matter what you put on but the Ranchos are a good bet.
John

[VX crazy]

Are you running stock tires and wheels? Stock tires are more likely to exhibit this behavior. Have you experimented up and down with air pressure? This can make a huge difference but this an enthusiast's vehicle, not a cushmobile.

[Green Dragon]

I am lifted with stock shocks & running 265-75-16 MTs not a great combo for a soft ride. However, the ride is very confortable and I attribute this in part to cutting off the Triangular portion of the rear bumper stops.

[StormTROOPER]

Crazy's right, definitely an enthusiast's vehicle. No rear visibilty and the driver is practically sitting on the rear wheels,(hence the rocking horse ride) but there are ways to improve (but not totally illiminate) these design sacrifices.......rear view camera and better shocks and tires, a small price to pay to drive a classic. ;)

[Offroad vx]

I just installed a set of the Rancho 9000s and I'm not overly impressed with the ride. My stock shocks were trashed but the only big difference I feel is over speed bumps. I've thought about doing something with the bump stops because I think the Ranchos on the softest setting are bottoming out. But the bottom line is the VX does ride rough but I don't care it's still cool!

[Heraclid]

I'm considering trying the Ranchos out just to see what that's all about, but the VX's ride doesn't really bother me. I'm pushing 70K miles on the original shocks and I rallycross the truck too. So far so good. And the stock shocks aren't adjustable.

I have always hated driving cars with that floating feeling - I like to feel the road and get that feedback. Soft shocks compress to their limit more easily. Stiffer shocks may give you a harsher ride, but it takes more to fully compress them to the limit, and like Isuzu said, these things were made to "go farther".

[VehiGAZ]

Offroad, please give full disclosure - what did you set your Ranchos at? They are 1-9 adjustable, and I wouldn't be too surprised that a soft ride would result from anything but the 7-9 range.

I'm in a similar dilemma - I just realized my 3-month old VX is not riding on the stock shocks. The ones in there are really bad - either too soft or worn out or both. I bounce down rough roads like a rubber ball. $2k for new stock shocks is out of the question, of course, so I'm looking for options.

Some posters on this board have praised the Rancho 9000s as the best mod they ever did to their VX, while some complain about them. Some say that at a max setting of 8 or 9, they are almost as stiff as the OEM shocks and have a better ride, while others have said that they are far too weak even at the max setting.

Obviously, everyone's *** has a different idea of what makes a good ride, so comparing any replacement shock to the ride of the original shock in good condition is the only decent benchmark we have to work with.

My ride is bouncy and floaty now, and that's no good. I want shocks that will control the body motions and absorb big heaves and speed bumps athletically. I went from a Prelude SH to this VX, so a stiff sports-car ride is OK by me. All I know is that I have a long way to go to get to that kind of ride.

Please, someone tell me what worked! :-)

[PeteVX]

i have rancho 9000x's set on their softest setting, i still find the ride firm compared to my nissan pathfinder but then again it corners and holds the road better than the nissan too.

I might be wrong but i think the springs are on the firm side too as far as compression goes which comes into play, so even with a softer shock which really only controls the damping you still get a pretty hard ride.

I havent heard anything about going to a softer spring anywhere... i could also be talking out of my arse too, i'll be the first to admit i'm not an expert.

At the risk of sounding like a girl I'd be still willing to lose a little handling for a little easier ride.

Can anyone enlighten us?

Pete

[Raque Thomas]

$2k for new stock shocks is out of the question, of course, so I'm looking for options.



There is a set of used (40k miles) stock shocks on eBay right now, suppossedly in good condition:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7963613340&category=33590

currently at $55 + $40 shipping - maybe an alternative??

[VCrossfan]

Rancho RS9000X Sale is still on at Sams offroad. $223.95 and Free Shipping. Installed mine 2 weeks ago and love them. ! !

http://www.samsoffroad.com/samsoffroadsto/rancho.htm

[Offroad vx]

Offroad, please give full disclosure - what did you set your Ranchos at? They are 1-9 adjustable, and I wouldn't be too surprised that a soft ride would result from anything but the 7-9 range.

I first set them at 1 which was squishy, now they're at 3 and seem better. I'm still experimenting with them and have been bumping up a few marks at a time. I never had the chance to see what the stock ones were really like since they were leaking when I bought it. I just have issues with the ride mainly on rough surfaces and speed bumps (which I can't avoid). Speed bumps are killer in this vehicle. I will keep you posted but don't spend a fortune on something because I don't think the ride will be any better for $1800 more!

[WyrreJ]

The cure for speed bumps is to go faster. Really.
I'm sure it is tougher on the suspension, but it can really smooth out the jaring effect of the bump. This goes for most any car too, not just the VX.

[VehiGAZ]

Wow, thanks everyone for all the replies! I have new info to report too. But first...

PeteVX, you are not talking out your arsse. You are dead on, and a lot of people need to learn how suspensions work. The car rides on the springs, and the shocks only dampen the motion of the springs. Harder/stronger springs need harder/stronger shocks, which is the challenge for the VX. No one makes softer springs for aftermarket - only sport springs which are stiffer than stock. I was behind an Integra the other day that had been lowered with sport springs but had the OE shocks, and it was bouncing up and down like nuts down the highway! HAH! I'm in a similar position, but I'll get to that in a moment.

Raque - thanks for the eBay tip; I'm already watching that auction.

Offroad - thanks for the clarification. I've seen a lot of positive posts about the Ranchos and a couple of negative ones, and I figured someone had them on the softest setting and didn't like them. I'm guessing the ride will be pretty good if they are set in the 7-9 range.

New developments - I took a closer look at my suspension, and the original shocks were replaced with KYB Gas-A-Just shocks. While these may be made by the OEM company, and they are gas charged, they are NOT adjustable, as the name suggests. Also, they suck. They are not up to the job of damping those stiff VX springs. The ride is not out of control, and it is not harsh, but heave-type undulations in the road will send my VX bouncing. Now with 50k miles on my VX, those shocks can't be THAT old, so I'm guessing they were not up the job from the beginnning.

I've heard only a few but very positive posts about Bilsteins, so I'm gonna price those out, but based on everything I've read here, I am willing to give the Ranchos a try. Unless my warranty will pay for the OEMs!

This topic is FAR from settled. Please continue to post your experiences with replacement shocks. I'm sure everyone appreciates the info!

[Raque Thomas]

One other thing - I don't know if you are running stock tires/wheels - but I noticed a MAJOR change in the ride quality (much rougher) when I mounted Pirelli 285/55/18 Scorpions on my stock rims. Not sure if the tires are just that much stiffer or what, but I definitely feel EVERY imperfection in the road now. My passenger seat has developed a very annoying rattle over bumps as it shakes back and forth.

[jimbo]

Is not part of the reason for the bumpy ride the short wheelbase? I've noticed in certain big empty parking lots, that must subtly dip and rise as I cut across, my VX gets rocking so bad I think I have a flat or something.

Some roads around here are like that too (not as bad though). When I'm on a road like that and reach up to adjust my radio volume I often accidentally turn it off (it just takes a slight push on the volume knob of course) because the "rocking horse effect" as a previous poster called it, causes my fingers to plunge into the volume knob :rolleyes:

[scarpezio]

I know exactly what you mean. Now, whenever I go to adjust the volume, I first brace my middle finger on the dash and then adjust the knob with thumb and index finger.

[jimbo]

I know exactly what you mean. Now, whenever I go to adjust the volume, I first brace my middle finger on the dash and then adjust the knob with thumb and index finger.

Great tip, I'm gonna try that.

[Offroad vx]

The cure for speed bumps is to go faster. Really.
I'm sure it is tougher on the suspension, but it can really smooth out the jaring effect of the bump. This goes for most any car too, not just the VX.


I'm a true believer in "when in doubt -GAS IT!" but unfortunatley these aren't regular speed bumps they're table tops and hitting them hard is not the solution. Although I wish it was since I have 6 between home and work eachway!

[CIATexan]

Whats this about the BIlstiens? any one tried them, or compared ride between the rancho's and the billstein?

[OZ VX]

Green Dragon, you talked about cutting the rear bumper stops. How much space should there be, I have around 10mm or less and it doesn't seem to anywhere near enough. Also, does anyone know if the standard springs are red in colour for Jap model VX.

Not going to really help CIAtexan, but I have Bilstiens in my Supra and they offer a really nice ride with good performance for me.

[VehiGAZ]

Texan,

If you search the forums for "shocks" you will see what everyone has to say about the different models. If I'm not mistaken, I think Hotsauce is the only one who has tried both the Bilsteins and the Racnhos. Many people have posted rave reviews of the Rancho 9000s (the 5000s seem to be too soft), but a couple of posters have noted that they are not as stiff as the originals even at the highest setting, and that the adjustment is only for the bump stiffness, not the rebound, which is the real key to an "athletic" ride. The few who have tried the Bilsteins (B46-1738-H1 or -H2 front and B46-1739-H1 rear) all posted favorable reviews of them. Those are the ones I've decided to go with in my VX, which had KYB Gas-A-Just shocks on it when I bought it. While I've never experienced the stock ride, I know that the wild pitching and rebounding I experience sometimes ain't right at all.

Good luck!

[peewog]

GAZ,

Are you installing the shocks yourself or taking them to a shop? I have my VX up for sale because the ride is killing my back. I'd be real interested to know the outcome of your mod. Keep us posted.

P

[VehiGAZ]

Peewog, we're neighbors! PM me if you want to get together to compare rides. In fact, I REALLY want to if you still have the stock shocks, because I have not driven a stock-suspension VX yet, so I have no idea what the ride is supposed to be like.

I haven't decided if I will try to install myself yet, but I am leaning toward DIY'ing it. Hell, if you want a soft ride, you can I'll give you the KYB Gas-A-Justs that are in my VX now. You're back will be fine, but you'll turn into a bobble-head from all the bouncing around you'll be doing.

And yes, I will post my observations on the new ride as soon as I get the Bilsteins in.

VehiGAZ

[davidashaw]

Hi
I have a US 2000 VX which had stock shocks when it arrived last year, (67000 miles) 2 shocks were shot, also had 255-55-18 tires, Very rough ride, compared to my Jap VX. Changed tires to Scorpion Zero 285-60-18 @ 40psi. and fitted Ranchero shocks, have experimented with settings and about 7 gives a great ride, not too much float and corners well, lower settings are very smothe but can bounce and roll a bit when thrown into a corner, for what its worth!.

[VehiGAZ]

Well, it's done. I installed my Bilsteins this weekend. The verdict: WOW! What a difference! Seems to be a very good balance between control and comfort.

I have yet to drive a stock suspension (I'll get back to you this week, Peewog!), so I can't compare the ride to that yet. But the Bilsteins reduced my suspension movements by about 50% compared to the KYBs. Much better ride, much better body control, and no penalty in harshness. But I think I would have liked to reduced my body motions by about 75%, I think. I will confirm this after Peewog and I swap rides to compare suspensions. I'll post more then.

Just to recap, I had KYB Gas-A-Just shocks in my VX when I bought it - likely a previous owner's attempt to soften the jarring ride for life in Queens. They gave a very uncontrolled, bouncy, excessive-body-roll-and-braking-dive kind of ride. I researched this site thoroughly, and decided to go with the Bilsteins (always pronounced BEEL-shteins by my father-in-law): B46-1738-H1 in front and B46-1739-H1 in back. I got them at Shox.com for about $255 delivered (such a deal!).

Anyway, The whole job took 5 hours by start-to-finish, working all by myself, without ever having even jacked up my VX before. With the couple of tricks and techniques I figured out, it could take as little as 3 or 3 1/2 hours, I think. I'll try to post my tips and observations this week. Most others posters complained about getting the upper bolts loose on the rears, but I had the most difficulty with the fronts because of the upper post-type mount. But more on this later...

[VehiGAZ]

FOLLOW-UP POST: Peewog and I drove each other's VXs last night - hers with OEM shocks and mine with the the new Bilsteins - and I can report that the Bilsteins provide about 97% of the damping that the OEM shocks do. No joke - I've been paying attention. Bump, rebound, and body motions were nearly identical between the two VXs. I thought mine transmitted road surface imperfections a bit more than hers, but I'm chalking that up to different tires rather than the shocks. Her tires were probably just a little softer than mine, so I got more vibrations from the road surface. But as for bump and rebound, the bigger jolts, dips, and heaves had about the exact same effect with either shock.

[VXcaver]

I did the Bilstein thing a few weeks ago and love 'em.

VehiGAZ - how did you get them compressed? I tried everything (sitting on them, putting them under a bench and stacking weights...) and finally took them to a mechanic to install. Were they supposed to be wired in a retracted position when the arrived?

[VehiGAZ]

Well, compressing the new shocks so I could mount them was the #1 trick to figure out (they arrived uncompressed). I compressed each a couple of times against the pavement to try to loosen them up (mostly in my mind, I suppose) because I noticed a high initial resistance before they started compressing. That was about all the prep work I did though.

For the rears, it wasn't a problem at all, because the uncompressed shock fit almost perfectly when the lower control arm was hanging down loose. I put the whole rear end of the VX up on 2 stands, and I used the jack to lift and drop the control arm as necessary to get the shock to slide into place. Piece of cake.

For the fronts, I again put the whole front up on the stands to work on it. I mounted the lower end of the shock first (finger-tight). Next, I put the lower half of the upper bushing on the upper post mount and leaned it up against the upper shock mount.

I first used a crowbar against the top of the post to begin compressing the shock. I compressed it enough to wedge the bushing plate under the edge of the shock mount and released the crowbar. Then I used a hefty flat-head screwdriver to compress the shock a little more by prying the bushing and then the plate against the underside of the mount until I could get the top of the bushing wedged under the edge of the shock mount. I was able to release the shock again at this point. Then I got a second big flat-head screwdriver, and used each in turn to compress the shock some more with one, then to keep it from extending again with the other.

There are two holes in the wheel well under the shock mount which I stuck the tip of each screwdriver into as a leverage point. When I got the shock compressed to where the top of the post was about about an inch or more lower then the shock mount, I quickly sort of pried the shock into place under the mount and let it expand right up into the post hole, or tried to get in back of it (i.e., deeper in) if I missed. Keep yoru fingers clear when doing this!! It doesn't expand terribly quickly, but you don't want to get caught in the way. If the post got caught near the edge of the mount hole, I used a mallet to knock it into place and let it expand. I then installed the upper half of the bushing and plate, and that was it.

By the way, I used about the same technique to remove the old front shocks. Just make sure you loosen the lower front bolts first, then remove the the top post from the upper mount, THEN pull the lower mount bolt and remove the shock! Otherwise, the lower mount will wedge itself against the control arm in one of several awkward spots (like against the brake line!) - I speak from experience. ;)

And while I'm at it, I removed the old rear shocks by dropping the control arm, then using the jack to adjust the height of the control arm so that the shock was as close to its "neutral" position as possible (i.e., not being compressed and not being stretched). This is of course not a concern if the old shock is completely dead - it won't want to return to a neautral position. When it's close to the neutral position, remove the upper bolt most of the way, and use that as an indicator of where the exact neutral spot of the shock is. If the bolt is pointing up, the shock is being stretched and is pulling down, so you need to raise the control arm. If the bolt is pointing down, the shock is compressed and is pushing on the bolt, so lower the control arm a little to find the sweet spot. When it's in its neutral position, it should be fairly easy to remove. Again, remove the upper bolt first, then the lower one.

A note on torquing the bolts - Each mount has its own torque specs (see one of the VX service manuals), and the service manual says to put the bolts in finger-tight, then torque each to spec with the suspension loaded (i.e., on the ground), but that was just about impossible to do without it being on a full lift. I don't know about you guys, but my torque wrench is about two feet long (heh-heh), and there is NO WAY it's going to fit under the VX when it is on the ground. I was actually able to tighten the post mount nuts with the torque wrench (although I had to use channel-lock pliers to hold the shock shaft while I tightened the nut with torque wrench). But I just tightened everything else to hand-wrench-tight, which is how tight it was when I removed the old shocks.

I hope that description of the procedure makes sense. I guess I explained the steps backwards, but close enough to git 'er done. If anyone has any questions, PM me or post here.

I wish I had taken a couple of pics or a video of the screwdriver-prying technique to share with the board, but I wouldn't have wanted to even look at our digi-cam with my filthy hands. I could have gotten the wife to handle the camera, but she was inside the house cleaning, and you know you don't want to disturb that!

[transio]

Let me tell you, I've been riding on these Bilsteins (http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=4376&highlight=bilstein) for almost a year now. They are the stiffest ride I've ever encountered. Stiffer, even, than my S2000 or M Coupe had. It's almost like a gocart. If anyone is concerned about ride comfort, don't get them! :p

[VehiGAZ]

Wow, I can't agree with Transio's comment on the Bilsteins. I found that they control the body motions very well, very comparably to the stock OEM shocks - FAR from the "go cart ride" Transio describes. And having had overly-soft shocks on my VX, I can tell you that going softer makes for an ugly, uncontrollable ride. Soft, yes, but that's no bargain when you're getting tossed left, right, and forward over ever undulation in the road. The Bilsteins gave my VX a softer and smoother ride than the 8-year old 145k mile Prelude SH that it replaced.

Transio, I wonder if there's a lot of difference between the actual performance (rather than the design performance) of our sets of shocks. Or maybe you don't have stock springs in your VX? I don't know how else to account for the discrepancy in our experiences with these Bilsteins.

[transio]

Gaz, do you have H1's front and back? Most people go with H2's on the front, which aren't as stiff. I have H1's, and the stiffness is noticeable.

[Raque Thomas]

Steve, your wheel/tire combo may contribute to the harsher ride as well. It made a BIG difference in my ride quality.

[t2p]

VehiGAZ:
.
The KYB MonoMax is a better option for the VX than the KYB GasAdjust. The Mono Max is intended for SUV's, trucks, etc. The MonoMax is 'beefier' (larger shaft diameter, etc) and has a higher (rebound) damping rate.
.

[transio]

Raque, I dunno, I've had 2 sets of wheels / tires with the same ride. Currently have 285/60s and very heavy wheels, so if anything it should make the ride softer (weight of the wheels would damper energy and big tires will deform a lot.

[VehiGAZ]

I have the H1's front and back. The ride was VERY comparable to Peewog's OEM setup, and she has about 75k miles on them. Tire size is one factor in the quality of the ride, but different tires are going give different rides due to differences in sidewall stiffness.

Transio, when it comes to suspensions, I know that designers try to keep "unsprung weight" (meaning the weight of the tires, wheels, hubs, brakes, and suspension linkages) to a minimum, because the more weight you have bouncing around under the springs, the more energy gets transfered to the chassis. Having "heavy wheels" therefore will make the ride worse. Lighter wheels will shake the car less.

[transio]

Transio, when it comes to suspensions, I know that designers try to keep "unsprung weight" (meaning the weight of the tires, wheels, hubs, brakes, and suspension linkages) to a minimum, because the more weight you have bouncing around under the springs, the more energy gets transfered to the chassis. Having "heavy wheels" therefore will make the ride worse. Lighter wheels will shake the car less.Hmmm... I never knew that. I always assumed the opposite to be true. Now that you mention it, though, it makes sense that the heavy wheels would transfer more energy onto the chassis. They also seriously kill acceleration. They look pretty, though! :)

[VehiGAZ]

I just saw your pics... they sure do look good, Transio! It's all a balance, I guess...