Mods for robotic VX

[Art]

Austin Robot Technology (http://www.austinrobot.com) has selected a VX as the off-road vehicle to serve as a platform for our robotic entry into the 2005 DARPA Grand Challenge (http://www.darpa.mil/grandchallenge). I would like to use this thread to get advice from members of this club regarding off-road matters. The race consists of 175 miles across the desert Southwest, most likely the Mojave Desert. Last DARPA Grand Challenge was held for the first time last year, the course was 142 miles from Barstow California to Primm Nevada. Most of the course consisted of unpaved rocky service roads along power lines. Some of the route went over paved roads (less than 20%). Speed is moderate (20 to 30 MPH). We will have some means of isolating the computers from shock, dust, and heat.

Let me start by asking about tires. We are considering 265-75-R16 BFG A/T KO.
An alternative is Firestone Destination M/T 265-75-R16. We want puncture resistance, we want traction. We have a conflicting desire for a "soft" ride.

Any advice on tires, comments about the above choices or other suggested tires. Any advice on tire pressure?

Thanks for any help!

Art

[Cyrk]

Cannot offer any advice, but TOO COOL, lets see some pics, videos... whatever. Good Luck!

[Tone]

Welcome and good luck! Bob Land Racing did Laughlin and a number of other notable offroad events - not sure if his site is still around but you may wish to search the web or this site. Cyrk, you have the autographed picture with stats on it - see what he lists for tires.

I'd think you'd most importantly want to use tires that competitors had used in Baja or Dakar or any of the other big events.

[AlaskaVX]

I'm not positive on what the conditions of the desert are but if it's deep sand the Mickey Thompson Baja belted tires did well here. I would not do a standard MT style tire (Like BFG MT) in the sand as it will dig in too much. You would want the widest tires possible too to keep you floating on top of the sand. For me the 31x11.5 Mickey T. Baja belted did very well in glacier silt and deep sand. No lift required just a little bit of trimming up front of the front wheel wells. The Baja Claws mounted backwards might do real well too.

But if a MT tire will work I can't believe how well my TrXus MT's do in all the conditions I have put them through. Not sure if they make ones that will fit, but most likely they do.

All the above tires give a descent ride.

[Nazrat]

Personally, I'd find a hard-ish compound all-terrain (AT) tire, or get some kind of run-flat insert to put in an AT tire. (maybe have new centers welded into H1 runflat rims) There's obviously no way to change a flat out there. If I was running normal AT tires at 20-30mph I'm not sure that I'd want less than 20psi, probably around 25-30psi. You risk popping them the higher the PSI, but you risk rolling it off of the bead at lower pressures.

I have a few pics of Bob Land's VX, and the tires that he used. They were not off-the-shelf tires. Bob told us that he had them custom cut, and were a very hard rubber compound. The ones on the VX in the pics below have a race on them, and I had a hard time telling them from the brand new ones in his shop.

http://tad.grosvenor.org/gallery/MoabMay2001/a22_19A

You can see the size here: (7.50 R 16 it looks like to me)
http://tad.grosvenor.org/gallery/MoabMay2001/a24_21A

Here's the tread that he ran on his Amigo:
http://tad.grosvenor.org/gallery/MoabMay2001/a21_18A

Keep us up to date. This company has an entry as well:
http://www.mitre.org/news/digest/advanced_research/02_05/ar_darpa_grandchallenge1.html

A group from Florida entered a 1993 Trooper last year.
http://cimar.mae.ufl.edu/teamcimar/gallery/pictures/DARPA%2004/index.htm

-Tad

[Moncha]

I saw this and the other post inthe intro forum.. First, WELCOME!! The project sounds very cool. I even watched the last one when it was presented to TechTV.
If you would like, I can made a specific forum to keep all of your updates and questions in one place so it doesn't get spread out. Let me know.

[Art]

If you would like, I can made a specific forum to keep all of your updates and questions in one place so it doesn't get spread out. Let me know.
That sounds like a good idea. Thank you!

[Moncha]

There ya go!

[StormTROOPER]

No advice except....GOOD LUCK!....because as far as I know, no robot has completed the trip (have they??) if not that would be really cool for the VX robot to make history. :cool: not to mention the fame would increase it's popularity and there by increase it's value. Good luck indeed. Please don't forget to post pics of that ...Desert-Storm Trooper. ;)

[MZ-N10]

gl.....keep us posted on how it turns out
________
LoveMirage live (http://camslivesexy.com/cam/LoveMirage)

[nocturnalVX]

I run Pro Comp ATs on my VX and they are very good tires. Pro Comp also has a mud-terrain and an "X-terrain" if you want a more aggressive tread pattern. Here's a link to their website... http://www.procomptires.com/ . Good luck!

[SGT.BATGUANO]

We need to get a BIG vehicross.info sticker on this robo-vx.

Are sponsorships available and how much does sign space go for?

[Moncha]

My thoughts also, was just giving them time to settle in ;)

[mbeach]

I'm assuming that this project is on some sort of budget.

I'd pick something not horribly expensive -your money would be better spent in software rather than tires. Having spent a fair bit of time driving about the Mojave Desert, I'd have to echo AlaskaVX's comment about flotation -fatter the better. The MT Bajas are reasonably priced, and offer excellent sand traction. Your speed(s) and route will not likely take you across tire-puncturing terrain, so just steer clear of any brush and mountains and your tires should be fine. You can add a can of Fix-A-Flat to each one to give you piece of mind.

Your robot's biggest enemies will be heat and vibration. Heat can be beat with a fair amount of A/C, but the VX is a well-known rump-shaker. Since plush suspensions aren't my thing, I'll have to hand that one off.

[Dallas4u]

Don't count out the Yokohama Geolander AT+II's!!!

[StinkBug]

i know the tire of choice for all the desert racer guys is the BFG Baja T/A, very tough, good in the desert, but also fairly expensive and somewhat stiff for some vehicles. Good luck.

Dallas

[Art]

Thanks for all the good wishes and advice!

We have been busy the last few days preparing a 5 minute video with the status of our vehicle, this video is due at DARPA a week from today. Will get some pictures to share with you soon.

Based on the feedback provided here (thanks!) and reading an interview with Bob Land (http://www.planetisuzu.com/articles.htm/68) a few years ago (thanks for the pointer) here's our initial take on tire requirements:

Diameter: around 31 inches
Tread width: 8-10 inches
Plies: at least 6
Load Range: "C" or "D"
Wheel radius: R16 (stock '99 VX)
Tire pressure: 25-30 psi
Puncture resistance: tire sealant (http://www.sparty.com/techinfo.html)

Opinions?

Art

[Art]

My thoughts also, was just giving them time to settle in ;)
We consider this forum an invaluable resource... we'll put the sticker for free. Where do you want it? Do you have encapsulated postscript (.EPS) file with the artwork? We'll have it made at FastSigns. Thanks!

Art

[Moncha]

Very COOL!!!
As it happens, I do have an .eps file also .psd and anything else you may need. The .psd and .eps banner I have is 24" long but can be resized and is 300dpi. I have smaller if you want also.. Tell me where it needs to be sent and I can get it there right away.

"Where do you want it?" - On the windshield of course ;) But, I don't want to get pushy.

[Art]

Very COOL!!!
Tell me where it needs to be sent and I can get it there right away.


info@austinrobot.com


Very COOL!!!
"Where do you want it?" - On the windshield of course ;) But, I don't want to get pushy.

Lemme see what we can do :rolleyes:

[Swordy]

I spend quite a bit of time playing in the California Desert. In fact I'll be heading out there for the weekend in a few hours. I'll vote for Dirtgripz or a similar tire. 11.5 to 12.5 wide. Use as tall a tire as you can reasonably fit without interference. Something with extra thick (E rated) sidewalls to deal with the jagged rocks. Air them down to like 13-15 lbs. for good stable contact, shock absorbtion, and floatation. For good bite, they should be luggy critters with a decent amount of void between the lugs. The sidewalls should be fairly tall.
If you go with a thinner C or D sidewalled tires, to obtain the desired squish factor, air up to a higher pressure. Obtaining the right amount of air-down is important to keep you from sliding on hard surfaced rock laden corners. They do need to be stiff enough to minimize body roll though. Use some strong cast smaller diameter rims. Not steel. Use some fairly stiff shocks in the rear, or/and split your rear bumpstops since riding on the bumpstops kills your traction at any appreciable speed.
At the risk of sounding conceited or arrogant... Actually,, to haul @ss across the Ca desert. I'd pretty much set it up like mine.

[Art]

Thank you Swordy... I found PJ DirtGrip here:

http://www.ntwonline.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&DID=48&CATID=10&Product_ID=1211&count=1&Pcount=1&DETAIL=1

This seems to be the tire for us:

PJ-31x10.5R16 (10 ply)
Load Range: "E"
Section Width: 10.3
Tread Width: 8.8
Rim Width: 7-9
Outside Diameter: 31.50

This one is bigger, would it fit ????

PJ-33x12.5R16
Load Range: "E"
Section Width: 12.4
Tread Width: 10.4
Rim Width: 8.5-11
Outside Diameter: 33.30

Here's a picture (http://www.austinrobot.com/images/VXWheel.JPG) of our front right wheel.

Thanks for everyone's help!

Art

[Moncha]

Your mail box is full.. I can make it available for a download If that would be easier

[Art]

Your mail box is full.. I can make it available for a download If that would be easier
Thanks for the heads up... I looked into it and found we were running low on our disk quota on the website host. No need to resend, info@austinrobot.com forwarded to another account (on a different host) and we did get your logo. Thanks!

[Moncha]

No, THANK YOU and good luck!!!

[Swordy]

Art,
No, 33/12.50-16's will not fit without a lift AND fender trimming. I think you should be safe running 31's without problems. Its been a while since I ran tires that small, so you might want to refer to a couple of the many tire size articles on the site. The subject has come up fairly often.
Andy

[Whaleboy]

Art, just outta curiosity. I haven't throughly browsed thru your website. But are you guys using solid state drives on your setup?

[LiquidVX]

I agree with alaska about mickey thompsons. 30" baja belteds rocks and would look good too- something about tread on the side of your VX tires just rules. Art, when you guys have a finished product, you're gonna make it a package for all of us to buy, right? I doubt I am the only one that wants an automated or remote controlled VX. :cool:

[Art]

Art, just outta curiosity. I haven't throughly browsed thru your website. But are you guys using solid state drives on your setup?
For now we are using disk drives... may go solid state later.

[Art]

I agree with alaska about mickey thompsons. 30" baja belteds rocks and would look good too- something about tread on the side of your VX tires just rules.

We are thinking of using the PJ Dirt Grips (for the E load rating), they have good tread on the side... agreed about the looks :)


Art, when you guys have a finished product, you're gonna make it a package for all of us to buy, right? I doubt I am the only one that wants an automated or remote controlled VX. :cool:

We are documenting everything we do (professional tech writers). No plans for making this available at the moment, though... consider the liability... :rolleyes:

[Art]

Art,
No, 33/12.50-16's will not fit without a lift AND fender trimming. I think you should be safe running 31's without problems. Its been a while since I ran tires that small, so you might want to refer to a couple of the many tire size articles on the site. The subject has come up fairly often.
Andy

Here's my current thoughts on tires, I like the Parnelli Jones because of the "E" load rating (thicker sidewalls to protect against rocks). Use STAUN internal bead locks at 48 lbs and run the tires at 25 lbs pressure. Use
TXT PRO tire sealant to plug punctures.

http://dirtgriptires.com/default.htm

Stock Number: PJ-06R
Size/LR: 31X10.50R16/E
Cross Section: 10.300
Tread Width: 8.800
OD: 31.500
Rim Wid Range: 7 to 9
Max Infl: 80 PSI
Weight: 58.5 lbs
Max Load: 2910
Tread Depth: 21/32"

Tire sealant: TXT Pro
http://www.sparty.com/techinfo.html

Bead locks (at 48 lbs):
Rim 16" x 7 to 8": SBL1678
http://www.eco4wd.com/products/Hardware/StaunProducts.htm

Tire pressure: 25 lbs

Comments welcome!

[Maugan_VX]

As it relates to mods for a automated VX, I'd definitely put selectable lockers in both differentials. They can really get you out of a jam if the need arises. You just have to come up with the programming and hardware on how to activate them.

[Swordy]

I think after you try the tires you'll find that 25 lbs is still pretty stiff. I would suggest trying them at 25 and at 15 and notice the difference in traction and handling on rough dirt roads.
If you are using those internal beadlocks you could actually run at 0 psi if for some reason you chose to. As for the tire sealant, I'm not sure about that brand, but some brands will cause aluminum oxide to form inside the rims making them brittle. I'd also find out from staun if tire goop will hurt the internal locks.

just thoughts

By the way, is this thing gonna be able to shift in and out of 4 Lo? or will you just leave it in 4 Lo? With a top speed of 40 it wouldn't be out of the question.
Most importantly,, when you run this puppy across the desert, let me know. I'd reallly like to watch.
Andy

[Art]

We have no plans to use 4 LO at this time, our plan is to let TOD do it's thing. We might decide to use 4 LO after testing.

Good points on the compatibility of the tire sealant and bead locks, I've sent an enquiry to both companies.

Good point on tire pressure, we need to test this.

Regarding when we will test this in the desert, that depends on whether we are selected as one of the 40 teams that go to the qualifying event in September.
We are currently testing in private ranches in Central Texas. Provided all goes well and we advance to the next round, we will be doing longer test runs in canyons in west Texas during the summer months and in California in September; the race is October 8.

[Maugan_VX]

I'd honestly rip out the TOD and put it in 4LO the whole time if you're only going to be going 40mph tops. TOD is just something else to go wrong, and if you get stuck, TOD will just be a bit late to get you unstuck.

Now what TOD MIGHT be useful for is hooking up to your computer to detect wheel spin, and if so, turning on a locker.

[Art]

We have access to the wheel speed information thru the on-board diagnostics port, let me think about this. Educate me on the lockers vs 4LO, I thought 4LO locked the differentials, is the locker you are thinking of different?

[Maugan_VX]

4 LO will only put the VX in full 50/50 power transfer mode between front and back full time. It will also change the gearing in the transfer case. (the Low part of LO)

When you have open differentials on a vehicle and one wheel loses traction for some reason, no power will be transferred to the other wheel on the axle, therefore giving you no power to the wheel with traction. A locker will "lock in" that differential so theres torque going to both wheels regardless of the position of the other wheel. This is very beneficial while offroad but does not allow the car to maneuver very well when traction is good like on pavement. Thats why its important to have a selectable locker (ARB) so you can turn it off when you don't need it.

[Art]

Maugan_VX: Thanks for the education!

I found this post (http://vehicross.info/forums/showpost.php?p=56477&postcount=7) that indicates the following part numbers fit the VX, does anyone disagree:

Front is part # ARB RD94
Rear is part # ARB RD44

Is this a reliable supplier:

http://www.ok4wd.com/product.asp?id=20

Thanks!

[Triathlete]

You might also try 4Wheel Parts (http://www.4wheelparts.com) . They sell the front/rear as a kit and throw in the compressor for free.

[GoIsuzu]

I'd go with laptops. TuffBooks for starters are designed for harsh operating environments and are probably tops when it comes to resisting damage caused by excessive vibration/impacts. From there I'd mount the laptops on anti-shock plates. A good home-made solution is to place a metal plate on top of a sealed bag of motor oil. The oil in the bag dampens vibration. The metal plate on top will sway/wave rather than vibrate.

I use an older Dell laptop as the "brains" of the DashPC/sound system in my Mits 3000GT and the suspension on it is pretty tight. Haven't had a problem with the computer so far.

So again, I'd definitely go with some laptops for your on-boards.

[Art]

A good home-made solution is to place a metal plate on top of a sealed bag of motor oil. The oil in the bag dampens vibration. The metal plate on top will sway/wave rather than vibrate.
We have chosen our computer systems, but not our shock isolation strategy. Thank you for your suggestion for shock plates. We will give that a try!

[Swordy]

Unless you are using an Ai type system, I think I'd skip the front locker. The steering is soo much different when the front is locked. It won't just go where you point it. Plus it may or may not imediately disengage when turned off. It sure would help get out of being stuck though. The solid state hard drives would be sweet too, but those are some pretty pricey little drives. Last time I checked a decent size one was like 4 to 5 grand. I guess it would cure about 95% of your vibration concerns though.

And yes, those are the correct ARB part numbers.

[Maugan_VX]

swordy: the lockers could be engaged while there is wheel spin present. I'd think they'd be smart enough to program the thing to get itself unstuck first, THEN get back on course.

I dunno, I'm pretty uneducated about the whole competition. It just seems logical for me to get out of a rough spot before concentrating on where I want to go. Of course the trick is to never get in the rough spots.... where do you start. I need more beer.

[megadan]

I don't want to sound like a downer, but your choice of vehicle for the DGC is largely irrelevant. It's not an off-road vehicle problem - it's a computer vision and mapping problem. I know, I was a software engineer on one of the original teams and spoke AT LENGTH to the DARPA people during the kick-off meeting at the Peterson Museum here in LA. We built a vehicle with dynamics that would pop the front windshield out of a VX at speed, so I am quite familiar with the development tree. And out weak point was software, not the "airframe."

80% of the 2nd gen teams out there thing they can solve this comp with a super off-road machine. What you need is some super software engineers in the areas of digital vision, path planning, fast control systems, etc. As a basic litmus test, if you can pretty much ignore GPS positioning in your Kalman filter, then you have a shot at getting into the course. (If you don't know what a Kalman is, then don't start cutting up your VX!)

Email me if you want, dan.danknick@gmail.com

Dan

PS: If you're just doing this for fun and don't have any serious intent of doing well, then ignore all of this and enjoy the ride!

[Maugan_VX]

How is a digital camera supposed to tell the difference between good traction and no traction?

I understand that it can identify obstacles, but sometimes you need all 4 wheels delivering power at once.

And if they wanted the ultimate offroad vehicle, I don't think they would have picked a VX.

[mbeach]

And if they wanted the ultimate offroad vehicle, I don't think they would have picked a VX.

I'm afraid that I'd have to agree here. While the VX is capable enough, I really hate to see one getting cut up for this challenge. Why not a nice retired dune buggy/desert racer (think Chenowith-framed) or something? Something with a soft, flexy suspension that only weighs 2000 lbs or so. RWD with a locker would be adequate with good (flotation) tires and a light chassis.

However, I can't side with the 4WD front/rear locker concept. While super-cool, it is also super-expensive, and super-complicated. A problem remains a problem, regardless of how much money you throw at it. While it's nice to dream, the reality of the situation is this: If the vehicle has troubles, it's going to be 95% software/vision related.

The last thing that I'd like to see is an uber-expensive modified VX frantically spinning it's tires at the bottom of a gully that it drove itself into.

[Art]

I don't want to sound like a downer, but your choice of vehicle for the DGC is largely irrelevant. It's not an off-road vehicle problem - it's a computer vision and mapping problem. I know, I was a software engineer on one of the original teams and spoke AT LENGTH to the DARPA people during the kick-off meeting at the Peterson Museum here in LA. We built a vehicle with dynamics that would pop the front windshield out of a VX at speed, so I am quite familiar with the development tree. And out weak point was software, not the "airframe."

80% of the 2nd gen teams out there thing they can solve this comp with a super off-road machine. What you need is some super software engineers in the areas of digital vision, path planning, fast control systems, etc. As a basic litmus test, if you can pretty much ignore GPS positioning in your Kalman filter, then you have a shot at getting into the course. (If you don't know what a Kalman is, then don't start cutting up your VX!)

Email me if you want, dan.danknick@gmail.com

Dan

PS: If you're just doing this for fun and don't have any serious intent of doing well, then ignore all of this and enjoy the ride!

As a programmer for over 25 years, I agree with your assessment. We have other programmers on the team also. We are doing this for fun *and* intend to do well... meet our team here:

http://www.austinrobot.com/team

[Heraclid]

I'm excited about this whole thing and I have a pretty good feeling about this. Especially when the bottom of their webpage says this:

"Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it." -- Chinese Proverb :yeso:

[Jorge]

Hello vehicross.info members:

My brother Art told me about this excellent website! Thanks to all the site members for their invaluable advice and support! Our robotic VehiCROSS can already drive autonomously, following a series of predefined waypoints. This is definitely going to be a fun ride!

Jorge

[Jorge]

It's not an off-road vehicle problem - it's a computer vision and mapping problem.
...
if you can pretty much ignore GPS positioning in your Kalman filter...


Hello megadan:

Your comments show you are well-versed in the fields of robotics and engineering. Yes, we do have engineers on our team who know control theory and yes we will have a Kalman filter. Thanks for the pointers! I'd love to hear more about your experiences in the previous Grand Challenge.

Jorge

[Jorge]

I really hate to see one getting cut up for this challenge.
...
Why not a nice retired dune buggy/desert racer?

Hello mbeach:

As a car enthusiast, I agree with your comments. I hate to see any car cut up for any reason. After having owned our VehiCROSS "robot" for the past 2 months, I want to buy another one just for myself :-) One of our self-imposed criteria is to "show respect" for our VehiCROSS. We are saving and carefully labeling every nut and bolt and piece of trim we remove from the car. After the race is over, our goal is to be able to assemble the VehiCROSS back to as close to mint condition as possible.

As far as using a retired dune buggy, you are right. The crux of the matter is software, machine vision, and control theory. We could conceivably strap our cameras and vision algorithms to a beat up Ford pickup and do just as well as with our VehiCROSS. Did you ever see the movie "Back to the Future"? In this movie Marty asks Doc why he used a DeLorean? To which Doc replies: "--If you're going to build a time machine into a car, why not do it with some style?" I think the same applies to us :-) If you are going to go through the immense trouble of building a robotic car, why not use a head-turning bad-*** looking little SUV like the VehiCROSS? We are very happy with our choice... and we are doing our best to show it the respect it deserves :-)

Jorge

[jim.LR>AR]

amen style is everthing..... :cool:

[mbeach]

One of our self-imposed criteria is to "show respect" for our VehiCROSS. After the race is over, our goal is to be able to assemble the VehiCROSS back to as close to mint condition as possible.

"--If you're going to build a time machine into a car, why not do it with some style?" I think the same applies to us :-) If you are going to go through the immense trouble of building a robotic car, why not use a head-turning bad-*** looking little SUV like the VehiCROSS? We are very happy with our choice... and we are doing our best to show it the respect it deserves :-)


That's good enough for me!

I was reviewing the results of the DGC last year (just to see exactly what obstacles the racers would be faced with), there were some pretty neat concepts out there. I wanted to find out what the failures were on some of the top vehicles. Is there a 'list' of this information available to you?

[Heraclid]

As far as using a retired dune buggy, you are right. The crux of the matter is software, machine vision, and control theory. We could conceivably strap our cameras and vision algorithms to a beat up Ford pickup and do just as well as with our VehiCROSS. Did you ever see the movie "Back to the Future"? In this movie Marty asks Doc why he used a DeLorean? To which Doc replies: "--If you're going to build a time machine into a car, why not do it with some style?" I think the same applies to us :-) If you are going to go through the immense trouble of building a robotic car, why not use a head-turning bad-*** looking little SUV like the VehiCROSS? We are very happy with our choice... and we are doing our best to show it the respect it deserves :-)

I'm wiping a tear from my eye. That was beautiful. YOU GUYS ROCK! :-)

[Swordy]

01001001 00100000 01100001 01100111 01110010 01100101 01100101 00100000 01110111 01101001 01110100 01101000 00100000 01000100 01101111 01100011 00101110 00100000 01000110 01110101 01101110 01100011 01110100 01101001 01101111 01101110 00100000 00101011 00100000 01100110 01101111 01110010 01101101 00100000 00111101 00100000 01100001 01110010 01110100 00101110 00100000 00100000 00111010 00101001

Amen

[Jorge]

01010011 01110111 01101111 01110010 01100100 01111001 00111010 00100000 01110100 01110010
01100001 01101110 01110011 01101101 01101001 01110011 01110011 01101001 01101111 01101110
00100000 01110010 01100101 01100011 01100101 01101001 01110110 01100101 01100100 00100000
01100001 01101110 01100100 00100000 01100001 01100011 01101011 01101110 01101111 01110111
01101100 01100101 01100111 01100101 01100100 00100001 00100001 00100001 00100000 00111010
00101101 00101001

:-)

[Art]

We received the Parnelli Jones Dirt Grips... they are heavy, and they look like they mean business... can't wait to put them on!
Thanks for the help selecting them.

Our Ironman VX looks out of this world...

http://www.wildtoys.com/vehicross/images/VX_C&D6-99_pg104_800.jpg

Art

[Moncha]

If you have time and want to.. Just as any member, please post pics of your progress in the gallery.. I'd even do up a special category for ya

[Triathlete]

Here is your competition...
http://www.pirate4x4.com/albums/album16/aad.thumb.jpg

http://www.pirate4x4.com/albums/album16/aac.thumb.jpg

The vehicle they started with is a Scorpion (http://scorpion4x4.com/newsite/homepage.htm)

[marximus]

pics didnt work. respost em please. art, jorge, you guys should post some pics, i really want to see what youve created.
mark-

[Moncha]

The pics from Pirate won't work as they don't allow external linking

[Triathlete]

Them Bastards! :mady: ;ooy; :bwgy:
Looks like someone fixed them into a link...thanks.

Here is the big pictures (http://www.pirate4x4.com/gallery/album16/aad) ...and the other one (http://www.pirate4x4.com/gallery/album16/aac) .

[Art]

Those are great pictures of the Scorpion 4x4, thanks for the link!

I'll try to post a picture of our VX soon.

We are getting the VehiCROSS.info sticker printed at FastSigns... very reasonable prices... don't know how they make a profit really.
Our list of sponsors has grown and as ya'll know there isn't much room on a VX for stickers, we'll try to display prominently.

Haven't put the new tires on yet, looking into runflats/bead locks... will need new wheels for the solution we are thinking of there.

[Art]

Use some strong cast smaller diameter rims. Not steel.
Why not steel rims?

I believe the only stupid question is the one that is never asked (except maybe "Don't you think it is about time you audited my return?")

[Moncha]

We are getting the VehiCROSS.info sticker printed at FastSigns... very reasonable prices... don't know how they make a profit really.
Our list of sponsors has grown and as ya'll know there isn't much room on a VX for stickers, we'll try to display prominently.

Be glad to throw you some dough for the troubles..

Is it going to be in color? May want to get some more made up.. Can't wait to see it!

THANK YOU!!

[Swordy]

So wheres the pics Bubba?!?!

[Tone]

Wonder what ever happened to this? Have never even been contacted and I live in the same small town. I like it much better when people DO something first and THEN talk about it. Any pics on their website seem to be protected from viewing and no address is listed for them.

[kobie]

Looking at their website, they've been busy... and they've been invited to the first dance. Congrats! Following is a paste from their website:

DARPA invites Austin Robot Technology to NQE
August 23, 2005
The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) announced today that Austin Robot Technology has been invited to the Grand Challenge 2005 National Qualification Event (NQE) to be held September 28 to October 6, 2005 at the California Speedway, Fontana, California. The two other alternate teams invited by DARPA to the NQE include Princeton University and Team Underdawg from San Jose, California.
Forty-three teams are now invited to compete at the NQE, 20 of which will advance from the NQE to the final Grand Challenge Event on October 8.

Perceptive readers will note a time lag between this entry and the previous entry on this page. "--Rest assured that means we have been hard at work on our robot, if not our website," quipped Austin Robot Technology's team leader :-) "--We have lots of photos of our vehicle and other content we want to publish on our website. We'll start working on it October 9th."
...
and a quote from their website:
"Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it." -- Chinese Proverb

[tomdietrying]

Kobie,
I'd like to check it out. What is their website?
Peace.
Tom

[Moncha]

http://www.austinrobot.com/

[WyrreJ]

That's odd. There was a press release a month or two ago from DARPA that listed all of the groups that made the first cut and I specifically looked for these guys and did not find them on the list. After that, I stopped paying attention.

[Jorge]

I'd like to check it out. What is their website?


Hello Tom,

I got your email via our website today :-) Thanks for the personal email!

Jorge

[Jorge]

Wonder what ever happened to this? Have never even been contacted and I live in the same small town.


Hello Tone,

I replied to your earlier post (last May) and invited you to send us an email if you wanted to come check out our robot. Sorry if you didn't see the post:

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showpost.php?p=60199&postcount=6

In case the above link does not work, it was post #6 on the following topic "Heavy duty brush guard for VX". The invitation still holds... Send us an email if you would like to come check it out, but we are now in super, SUPER crunch time... three weeks before our robot needs to compete head-to-head with Carnegie Mellon's $3,000,000 robot, and against Stanford, Caltech, Cornell, and others... whew! Piece-o-cake ;-)

Thanks,

Jorge

[Jorge]

Looking at their website, they've been busy... and they've been invited to the first dance. Congrats!


Hello Kobie,

As you can imagine, it's been an unbelievable amount of hard work! Thanks for the good wishes! Tom sent me an email which prompted me to log back into y'alls website (vehicross.info). I guess I haven't been active enough at vehicross.info to call it "our" website yet ;-) Sorry I haven't been more active...

Jorge

[Jorge]

That's odd. There was a press release a month or two ago from DARPA that listed all of the groups that made the first cut and I specifically looked for these guys and did not find them on the list.

Hello WyrreJ,

NOTE: Wow... this ended up being a longer post than I thought when I started writing it... Sorry for the long post :-)

DARPA originally intended to invite 40 teams to the National Qualification Event (NQE) to be held at the California Speedway September 28 through October 5th. The original cut of 40 teams were selected after the results of the first site visit (DARPA representatives visited more than 100 teams). During our first site visit back in May, our robot successfully avoided the random obstacles (plastic trashcans) placed by DARPA along the test track.

Unfortunately (due to technical glitches and due to the fact that this is an INCREDIBLY hard problem ;-) Our robot did the runs only at idle speed (and DARPA wants a *fast* robot). We therefore did not make the first cut of 40 teams... but DARPA realized there were several really good teams that were left out, so they bent the rules a bit (they are the DoD, and they *make* the rules, so they can bend them if they want :-) Basically DARPA decided to select the top nine teams who did not qualify and award them "alternate" status. The original intent was to use the alternate teams to fill any spots if one of the top 40 teams had to drop out of the race. The ranking of the "alternate" teams would be used to determine which teams would get invited first. Back in June DARPA scheduled a second site visit for all the alternate teams and DARPA announced that they *may* invite the top 3 teams to participate at the NQE depending on the results of the 2nd site vist. Here is a link to the DARPA press release:

http://www.darpa.mil/grandchallenge/Press_Release_Final_July_5.pdf

So for the past 3 months we have been kind of like an NFL Wildcard team :-) I guess it was not too bad making it to the same list a Princeton University ;-)

Two weeks ago DARPA came and visited our robot again, and we were fortunately selected as one of the top 3 teams. As a matter of fact, the top three alternate teams had a strong enough showing that DARPA invited them (us) to the NQE as actual bona-fide semi-finalists:

http://www.darpa.mil/grandchallenge/DGC_Alternates_Press_Release.pdf

We are no longer an alternate team... we will compete on the same footing and on equal ground as the rest of the 40 teams selected in June. So at the end of September you will see our team at the California Speedway, competing against the big boys :-) MY GOSH!!! IS THAT REALLY LESS THAN FOUR WEEKS AWAY?!?!?!

Thanks for the interest... gotta run... I'm trying to figure out the max safe speed for the robot given the radius of curvature of upcoming curves :-)

Jorge

[Jorge]

So wheres the pics Bubba?!?!

Hello Swordy,

Sorry I haven't been keeping up to date with the vehicross.info forum...

I have hundreds of pictures, most of which I haven't even uploaded to our own website... No time :-( After the race is over I promise to figure out how to upload pictures into vehicross.info and I promise to upload more pictures than you can wave a stick at :-)

In the meantime, and by way of making amends :-) here is a web page that has some pics of the robot, and *even more exciting* it has some pics of our first site visit in May where you can see our robot driving around the obstacles set by DARPA representatives (plastic trashcans :-) I created this page for Col. Starr of the Texas National Guard at Camp Mabry in Austin when we were trying to obtain permission for using Camp Mabry for our 2nd site visit:

http://www.austinrobot.com/misc/dsv_summary/

Since then we have added laser rangefinders and cameras to the rooftop mount. The robotic VX is quite a headturner :-)

Thanks,

Jorge

[transio]

I like it much better when people DO something first and THEN talk about it.You mean like going to war with Iraq? You're right, talking about stuff first is a waste of time. We should just act on instincts like animals. :p

[newthings]

I have use a wheelbarrow inner tube with a board on top for damping heavy objects like microscopes.
If the bag burst with motor oil you would have a mess. I would use water with gelatin packages from the grocery and add a few drops of bleach to stop alge growth. Water cleans up easier.
Cheers, Roy

[Anita]

Hmm ... California Speedway

That is not too far from a lot of us L.A. VXers. Is it possible that we can meet up with you? I think that would be a very cool thing to do.

[Jorge]

Is it possible that we can meet up with you?


Hello Anita,

Our team is allowed 25 guest passes at the California Speedway. I can't make any promises yet because we have to make sure all our sponsors and family members get passes, but we may have a couple we can make available for a day. If you think you would like to make use of the guest passes, please keep in touch with me and I'll try to save some for you. The best way to reach me is to go to our website (www.austinrobot.com) and send me email via the "Contact Us" link.

Thanks,

Jorge

[Moncha]

Hmm ... California Speedway

That is not too far from a lot of us L.A. VXers. Is it possible that we can meet up with you? I think that would be a very cool thing to do.


Maybe I could work up a nice shirt for the event.. And you could be our rep?!?! ;)

[Jorge]

Maybe I could work up a nice shirt for the event.. ;)

Hello Moncha,

DARPA sent me an email telling me that the track announcer at the California Speedway will typically have air time to fill between vehicle runs and could use lots of stories, facts, data, anecdotes and biographical data. They said it may be helpful to think in terms of information "nuggets" that are easy to explain to the general public. Please see below for a sampling of some the "nuggets" we sent in :-)

Thanks,

Jorge


---o---

Austin Robot Technology's vehicle is a 1999 Isuzu VehiCROSS, "Ironman" Edition.

The VehiCROSS was originally introduced by Isuzu as a concept car at the 1993 Tokyo Motor Show. Its unique and daring style made it a crowd favorite, and the VehiCROSS went into production in 1999.

The VehiCROSS is highly regarded by car enthusiasts as a high-performance off-road machine.

---o---

Due to the fact that it was originally a concept car and that ceramic stamping dies were used to cast the body panels, the VehiCROSS was produced for only three years, with the last VehiCROSS rolling off the assembly line in 2001. This has turned the little SUV into a collector's item and has resulted in a large following of die-hard aficionados.

One such community is the vehicross.info forum on the Internet. Members of the forum were quick to embrace Austin Robot Technology's vehicle selection and they offered advice ranging from tire selection, to skid plates and brush guards.

Members of the audience interested in knowing more about this unique SUV are encouraged to visit the vehicross.info website. Austin Robot Technology would like to thank the members of the vehicross.info community for their support.

---o---

Austin Robot Technology's robotic vehicle is completely street-legal and it can be seen regularly driving around town in Austin.

Their personalized license plate is "ROBOT" and it proudly displays the Texas anti-littering slogan "Don't Mess With Texas".

---o---

Austin Robot Technology's team leader says that they have been stopped several times by grinning police officers who want a closer look at the vehicle.

One police officer in particular has stopped the team twice to check on the progress of the vehicle. This was the same police officer who offered his assistance as the team was working on their vehicle, late one night, in an empty parking lot.

Austin Robot Technology would like to thank the Austin Police Department for their support!

---o---

[transio]

You guys shoulda gone with a Proton Yellow VX. :D

[Moncha]

Very COOL Jorge!! I'm speechless. I only wished I could be there when you guys run.. I am in spirit!

[JULIAN911]

Jorge,

I'm also in Austin with a '99 black VX, big tires + all of Ron's mods but have not seen your white one around. I had a small VX gathering recently at my house but missed you guys. PM me and let's try to hook up sometime. Check out my gallery with all the cool interior mods.

[Jorge]

I'm also in Austin with a '99 black VX


Hello Julian,

Let's hook up when I come back. In one week we leave for three days of testing at the U.S. Army Yuma Proving Ground in Arizona. They have allowed us to use their unmanned vehicle testing facility for three days. After that we are off to the qualifying round in California... Hey, I saw your cool mods... Cool screen! That's exactly where we put our flat-panel screen :-) You building a robot too ;-) or does it give you GPS, etc.?

Jorge

[Triathlete]

If you come through Tucson let us know if you want to do lunch or breakfast/mini meet...or something! :thumbup:

[Jorge]

If you come through Tucson let us know if you want to do lunch

Hello Billy,

As a matter of fact, we will be driving through Tucson this Friday, September 23... probably just around dinner time... and what better person to ask where to eat than a local VXer? ;-) Send me an email if you'd like to meet for dinner Friday night! And bring your camera ;-)

Jorge

[Triathlete]

What kind of food/price range you looking for? I am up for meeting. Will bring camera! And luckily I am on vacation (usually would be at work!). I will email you with my phone # so you can call me when you get near town so we can set up a time. This will be cool! I even just washed my VX (first time since May-it was the rain season).

[transio]

Tri,

Make sure to get lots of pics of the RoboVX !!!

Steve

[Triathlete]

You know I will!

[JULIAN911]

Hey Jorge,

Yes, let's hook up when you get back after winning the race :clap: I can't wait to see your VX to give me more ideas for mods :bgwb:

[MZ-N10]

any updates on this?

[WyrreJ]

I think the competition started today. Saw a headline about it, but didn't read any further.

[Art]

We are back in Texas from our DARPA Grand Challenge adventure. We received many compliments on our choice of vehicle. Unfortunately we didn't qualify for the finals and didn't compete in the race.

Those interested in learning more about how our robotic VX did at the qualifying event can visit the news section (http://austinrobot.com/news/index.html) of our web site.

We stopped in Tucson on our way back and visited with Jeff and Triathlete, they got pictures of our three VXs. We gave them a tour of the VX and the mods we made, they got pictures of those as well.

Thanks to everyone for the advice on this project.

We will continue working on the software, which can always be improved.

Art

[Jorge]

Also, Andy Miller (aka Swordy) came and visited us in Primm, NV, during the Grand Challenge when our VX was on display for the public at the parking lot behind Buffalo Bill's (next to the DARPA tent). Thanks for coming and visiting Andy! It was great meeting you!

[transio]

Art,

Out of curiosity, what sort of programming language do you use for that? Is it C++? Assembly? Or something else? Where would I learn how to do that type of programming?

Thanks!

Steve :)

[Art]

Hi Steve,
All our code is C & C++. If you know C++ you can take a look at the Player / Stage project (http://playerstage.sourceforge.net/) for examples of how to structure a robot program.

If you want to learn programming and robots, Lego Mindstorms (http://mindstorms.lego.com/eng/default.asp) is a good place to start.

Both of my sons (12 & 15) have built and programmed robots using Lego Mindstorms. People have built sophisticated robots using it, click here (http://jpbrown.i8.com/index.html) for some examples, and my favorite, a Lego robot to solve Rubik's Cube! (http://jpbrown.i8.com/cubesolver.html)

If you want to learn how to program a winner then you might go here (http://ai.stanford.edu/) :cool:

[transio]

Thanks Art! Looks like great reading!!!

[volume311]

Watching the Discovery channels monster garage, they are highligting the build of one of the vehicles and just saw the white VX in the background :)