Bye Bye to my VX already???

[bigdogdeee]

So, one day short of my 3 week anniversary with my used VX, I took it to the dealership where I bought it to have them fix the passenger window. But what they didn't know I'd spring on them, was all the other problems I've found out this vehicle has. (I took it to the Isuzu dealer in town and had them do a serious inspection). So when I got back to the dealer, they were thinking, fixin a window, no problem. Until I sprung on them, in no particular order:

Leaking Exhaust
A leaking rear wheel bearing
A leaking rear shock
An engine burning oil at the rate of a quart and a half every 700 miles
A non working cd player. . . .the list goes on.

After about five minutes with my original salesman, the head finance guy came in, looked at the list, and asked how I'd feel about trading off this vehicle for another one. I told him I loved the VX but at this point wouldn't rule out trading up or down to something else. I think the dealership guy looked at what it would cost to get my vehicle running tip top, and thought it might be a lost cause. . . so as of noon tomorrow, after the dealer talks to the actual owners of the dealership, odds are I'll be picking out a different vehicle and saying good bye to my VX. As much as is wrong with it, i'm gonna be sad to see it go. I've never seen so many peoples heads turn. . . .except the time I went streaking. . . .but they were turning away in disgust then!!!!

All I can say is this is one of the best forum/sites I've ever seen and everyone has been so helpful. All hope isn't lost for the VX just yet, but it's looking that way. . . .

[thebear54]

Hey BigDog....
Don't give up so easily. If you love the car there are other options. Fix what is wrong...get some quotes from someone other than an Isuzu Dealer. File a window complaint on line(hopefully soon it might be a recall so it will be fixed free), buy another sound system, etc.
The problems you have with your VX is nothing major and you are not the first to have these problems.
Who is to say that you won't have the same problems(or worse)with another vehicle.
Keep the Faith Man!
John

[MachineVX]

The excessive oil burning could be a sign of the dreaded engine failure . . .

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

Leaking Exhaust
A leaking rear wheel bearing
A leaking rear shock
An engine burning oil at the rate of a quart and a half every 700 miles
A non working cd player

Leaking Exhaust---This is something that can/will occur with any car you buy...and if it is just the muffler you can go with any number of aftermarket companies that would be cheaper and lighter than your original. (i.e. MagnaFlo, Flowmaster, used PV...etc.)

A leaking rear wheel bearing---This doesn't seem like a common problem so unfortunately you'd have to bite the bullet on this one and if you could swing it I'd look into having both done for insurance.

A leaking rear shock---I had a leaking rear front and lucked out getting both fronts changed under factory warranty @ around 23k miles...but for the price of replacing one original shock with a new stock one you could probably pretty much replace all of them with any number of aftermarket ones people have tried at this site...use the search...I'm personally leaning towards the Bilsteins if I can't swing staying with the originals (which I love!) Also...Rancho 9000 adjustables offer a softer ride if that is what you crave as described by those who have them.
http://www.drivewerks.com/cgi-bin/ppexpress/ppe_drivewerks.cgi?command=show_part_page&YEAR=2000&MAKE=IS&MODEL=VEH--001&Category=L&esc_part=Shock+Absorber

A non working cd player----small potatoes...drive it until you can afford an aftermarket one as there are many options here. At least you have a radio with cassette. I couldn't see trading in any car over a cd player! I just bought a '95 Monte Carlo Z34 without one...oh the pain...lol.


An engine burning oil at the rate of a quart and a half every 700 miles---okay...this is the "biggie" as it could be a real big cost to replace engine...try replacing the PCV valve (Deutsch brand) found at AutoZone (Theirs seems to fit better than the Purolator from Advance Auto) as this is a two minute job if you've done it before; and plan on changing it every other oil change for insurance (costs like $3) and take your EGR Valve off (2 bolts and unplug) and spray it out with carb cleaner (Oxygen sensor safe) and also flush out the EGR pipe after Valve is off...(job takes about 1/2 hour maybe if you've never done it before) and reinstall. If you get a check engine light (I didn't) than unplug battery for 30 sec or more and reconnect (unless you have a code reader that removes codes). Drive normally and observe oil usage to see if it minimizes (mine used alot one time...did all this...now it barely uses any in 3,000 miles)

[Tone]

Guess you didn't check this 6 yr old vehicle out very well before you bought it, so quit complaining? You've got 20+ posts on things that you could have found information on had you searched.

EGR has absolutely NOTHING to do with oil burning or engine failure. Oil consumption is not necessarily an indication of pending engine failure - could be the valves are not adjusted properly or rings sticking. It WILL cause failure if you don't regularly check and add oil. Most all of the engine failures on here, when checked for oil, were off the dipstick. Coincidence?

[Triathlete]

And if all the above does not convince you to keep the Most Bitch'in Vehicle ever built you may concider getting a refund (most states have a lemmon law) and purchasing one of the fine VXs for sell here on the site by people who have pampered and thoroughlty cared for their VX!
Or you could just drive something else like 1000000 other people in your town!

[bigdogdeee]

Hey Tone, i don't like your tone. I'm not an idiot, and I did research on the vehicle, and also found most of the issues when taking it to the isuzu dealer in my hometown. By no means am I slamming VXs or there owners in anyway. Like I said at the top of my post, this site has been awesome, very helpful, and until reading your message, I had never had a problem with anything posted to me. I take offense to your "so quit complaining". I did research for over a month non-stop on the net before buying. . . .and didn't find a lot of major issues with these vehicles, minus the passenger window. And as for something like oil consumption? not likely i can pull a dipstick before buying and realize it's gonna burn oil. There were absolutley no signs of burning oil evident anywhere on the vehicle. The exhaust leak, not a big deal, the shock, not a big deal, the window, not a big deal, a non-working cd player, who cares. But an engine burning that much oil, big deal. I don't care who you are, or how much you know, you can't look at a vehicle, and tell it's gonna burn oil.

And as for the conclusion, the dealer I bought it from is considering it a lost cause. . . .am I upset, yep. I was really hoping to get them to fix what was wrong, so I could continue to have a kick *** vehicle that turned heads, but instead, i'll end up another normal city dweller, with a normal truck or suv. I still have my crotch rocket though, and that's anything but average. . . .

Can't win em all. And thanks to everyone for there help on the site. I could see myself on here from time to time. And by no means do I mean disrespect Tone, you've been one of the most helpful members on here and I was about an inch away from ordering your hitch . . . before this happened.




Guess you didn't check this 6 yr old vehicle out very well before you bought it, so quit complaining? You've got 20+ posts on things that you could have found information on had you searched.

EGR has absolutely NOTHING to do with oil burning or engine failure. Oil consumption is not necessarily an indication of pending engine failure - could be the valves are not adjusted properly or rings sticking. It WILL cause failure if you don't regularly check and add oil. Most all of the engine failures on here, when checked for oil, were off the dipstick. Coincidence?

[Tone]

Sorry. We have used car inspection companies that will go out and run a compression test, etc and then guarantee the vehicle. I hope you can get the dealer to take it back as they should have done that kind of make ready also. There are still plenty of good ones around so don't settle for a bunch of problems that will sour you on a fantastic vehicle. Good luck.

[bigdogdeee]

Thanks Tone, i'm hoping to find my way back into one real soon. Ironically I got my ranchos today. D'OH!!!



Sorry. We have used car inspection companies that will go out and run a compression test, etc and then guarantee the vehicle. I hope you can get the dealer to take it back as they should have done that kind of make ready also. There are still plenty of good ones around so don't settle for a bunch of problems that will sour you on a fantastic vehicle. Good luck.

[Green Dragon]

Quote from an Isuzu tech:

"the piston has three rings top compression second compression and oil scraper ring the oil scraper ring land (groove) has oil drain back hole in the piston which get plugged causing oil consumption I've reringed to many of these motors under warranty for isuzu."



The Isuzu service bulletin regarding excessive oil consumption (> 1qt per
1000 miles) is service bulletin # IB00-01-5002.
As for Oil useage, I was reading my CD manual last night, and it stated the following reasons for increased oil consumption: 1. Dirty EGR (system) 2. Dirty PCV 3. Carbon up piston rings 4. Long highway trip 5. Towing

[Tone]

Can someone please explain how the Exhaust Gas Recirculation system (tube or valve) being clogged has anything to do with oil consumption? Is it recovering partially burned oil from only the passenger side exhaust manifold and then redepositing it back in the intake trac where it is burned again or somehow seeps back down into the pan? Keeps the intake air charge hot? I just don't understand....

[Green Dragon]

Can someone please explain how the Exhaust Gas Recirculation system (tube or valve) being clogged has anything to do with oil consumption? Is it recovering partially burned oil from only the passenger side exhaust manifold and then redepositing it back in the intake trac where it is burned again or somehow seeps back down into the pan? Keeps the intake air charge hot? I just don't understand....


Very good question!

Amsoil

If the EGR valve malfunctions, engine performance is dramatically reduced. An EGR valve remaining in the open position will result in the engine stumbling or stalling at idle speeds. When the EGR fails to open, combustion temperatures cannot be limited, causing higher cylinder temperatures and an increase in NOx emissions. Engine ping or knock may occur, especially when the engine is under load.


In either case, drivability problems arise and NOx control is lost. The loss of NOx control results in rapid degradation of the engine's motor oil. NOx shortens oil life by increasing oil nitration and decreasing the oil's ability to neutralize acids (TBN) and maintain internal cleanliness, resulting in oil thickening and/or the formation of sludge within the engine.

Bob F Note: Increased Oil consumption is a resultant of higher cylinder head temperatures


Bob F
As far as the PCV Valve & the Isuzu 3.5 eng is concerned. It is my belief that if the PCV valve fails closed, then the resulting increase in crankcase pressure overcomes the drain thru of some oils thru the oil ring ( Isuzu design deficency) subsequently resulting in a rapid loss of engine oil. Catastrophic engine failure soon follows. Using a good quality fully Synthetic oil & changing the PCV & oil filter every 5,000 miles or less are my preventative measures to deal with this situation.

[Tone]

That still does not explain it - think about it, it is feeding HOT air into the intake charge when it's open! If it is closed, then it does not feed hot air in. I ran with Bob Land headers that did not have the EGR connection and had no problems other than the check engine light. EGR is an emissions additon and not a blow up your engine thing.

I do agree with the PCV being clogged and blowing oil out through the rear seal.

[psychos2]

i can see it getting hotter with it open ,not closed . maybe its a typo. when i cleaned mine the other day i noticed it was sticking in the open position. shawn

[Green Dragon]

"When the EGR fails to open, combustion temperatures cannot be limited, causing higher cylinder temperatures and an increase in NOx emissions. Engine ping or knock may occur, especially when the engine is under load."

This is interesting to me as well, if the EGR sticks in the open position, Cyl head temp rises. If ping or knock occurs then I would presume that the knock sensor would retard the timing, since the timing is initially retarded for emissions control the very least occurance would be a corresponding decrease in the complete ignition of the fuel/air mixture. ( Poor Gas mileage- less power).

I am not sure that the rear seal in this particular instance is an issue when the Isuzu engine PVC fails closed. The seal most certainly has failed in the past (other engines) whenever crankcase pressure has been excessive but I am unaware of crankcase seal failures in Isuzu engines.

It is an interesting discussion but unless Isuzu provides us with the failure analysis data (Highly unlikely) our theroms right or wrong remain unproven.

As for my VX, I think best to apply the aforementioned semi rigid prevention methods I alluded to earlier.

[mbeach]

I always thought that one of the side benefits of a properly working EGR system was cooler cylinder temperatures.

When I bought the first VX, the Isuzu tech(s) told me to immediately change the oil with Mobil 1 0W-30. Maybe this was to combat the oil drainage issue right off the bat.

Wait a minute...
3 piston rings, top to bottom
Compression
Compression
Oil Control/scraper

Crank case

Why exactly does oil need to drain through a hole in the piston/ring land in order for it to be returned to the crank case -shouldn't it drain down there on it's own with every downstroke of the piston?

[Green Dragon]

Wait a minute...
3 piston rings, top to bottom
Compression
Compression
Oil Control/scraper

Crank case

Why exactly does oil need to drain through a hole in the piston/ring land in order for it to be returned to the crank case -shouldn't it drain down there on it's own with every downstroke of the piston?

That is what I thought initially, but my research into this subject turned up this interesting NASA report that addresses this issue ( albeit a different engine)

This is a good read.Especially pages 4,5&6.

http://naca.larc.nasa.gov/reports/1922/naca-tn-88/index.cgi?page00000004.gif

[mbeach]

Excellent detective work -I learned quite a bit.

Are the 3.5's pistons aluminum or steel?
Also, has anyone tried replacing the scraper ring with one that is .003 thicker, so that it doesn't move so much with the ring land?

I'd like to see oil consumption measures rated by the hour, rather than by the mile. I think that the stop and go nature of some driving contributes more to the pumping phenomena than anything else.

[SGT.BATGUANO]

Only thing I can add is that the recycled exhaust gasses aren't as hot as the 1500 +/- degrees in the combustion chamber, so reintroducing METERED AMOUNTS of preburnt exhaust lowers the COMBUSTION CHAMBER temp by reducing oxygen content of the fresh charge ?