turbo?

[zuzuAmigA]

Is there a turbocharger available for the vx or is only the supercharger available?
~Heather

[TDAWG]

The best person to ask is Tone Monday. I haven't herad of anyone making a turbocharger for the VX.

[hitnrun74]

I think the concensus was that there wasn't enough room for a really good turbo setup. There was a pic floating around of a Turboed VX. Didn't look all that nice to me, and I don't remember if there was any performance info posted with it. It might have been on the club v-mag site. I also think there was severe front-end work done to stuff all the equipment in there.

[Tone]

Turbos will work/fit but usually at a cost of reduced ground clearance. SC currently offered has no lag as the turbo would/does. Cost to get one from Japan or fab one would easily be twice the cost of the current SC kit.

[Joe_Black]

A turbo would really only be appropriate if you're building for speed. The SC will give you the power from the git-go which is where you want it on a truck. Ever here of "turbo lag"? Believe me, my other hobby is Merkurs, turbos are suited for sports cars. Turbo diesels would be the only exception, but they're turbo'd for top end power since they already have the torque dept. covered. Yep, the SC is definitely the way to do, especially when you look at the simplicity of installation and immediate availability of power. Plus there's no complex plumbing as required with the turbo nor the considerations of intercooling and/or water-injection needed for maximum power.

[VehiX]

Here are some pics of the ONLY turboed VX on the planet, note on this install, the ground clearance referred to in previous posts. I'm sure some one could fabricate a better set up but probably not worth the $$$. Plus, I would imagine the stock internals would need to be upgraded as well.

http://www.af.wakwak.com/~kero/vehicross/YRVX/Y09.JPG

http://www.af.wakwak.com/~kero/vehicross/YRVX/Y11.JPG

http://www.af.wakwak.com/~kero/vehicross/YRVX/Y12.JPG

[BumbleV-X]

VehiX,
Second picture, car next to the one with a turbo. Out in the front of the vehicross there is something sticking out. What is it? I thought there was only one that had the only hidden winch, but that kinda looks like a rolling fairlead.

Just curious,

Deby

[TDAWG]

Just to let everyone wondering what exactly that is sticking out the front of Vehix 2nd Picture that is a sleeve of someone standing in front of that VX. The only VX that I know of having a turbo mod is the 1 from MOONCRAFT. Which it looks like those happen to be of it. Everyone that has seen those pics will still have to admit that it is 1 Beautiful VX. Becuase of adding the turbo and intercooler I don't think a winch could be placed on the front.

[Dallas4u]

I believe that "thing" sticking out in front of the VX in the foreground is the OEM Japanese light bar. That's where it mounts.

[coachreed]

So are things THAT tight under the hood of the VX? That turbo is REALLY low and I know that it would require a scavange pump to get the oil back out. Is there NO way to get up under the hood where the oil could gravity feed back to the pan? I guess I need to just get off my arse and go find myself a VX of my own to check out. Can someone take a couple pictures of the engine compartment to show JUST how tight it is? I appreciate it. I have always had a thing about turbos, but didn't think about the drawback of having to spool the turbo up. My problem with the SC is the lack of intercooler. Is there anyway to get some kind of water-air intercooler between the SC and the intake manifold? I hate stuffing HOT air into the engine. Anyway, This looks to be a good thread. Thanks for posting it Heather... ;) ;pb; ;Db;

Coach... aka Randy!

[SGT.BATGUANO]

You might be able to shoehorn a small, front-mount intercooler in. Intake charge air temp is not as much of a factor in a supercharged application as compared to a turbo, due to the mechanical/ thermal heat transfer between the intake and exhaust halves of the turbo.

As far as launches and turbo-lag go, Buick and GMC overcame that at drags pretty easily with a low boost spool-up launch @ about 5 P.S.I.

[coachreed]

Originally posted by SGT.BATGUANO
As far as launches and turbo-lag go, Buick and GMC overcame that at drags pretty easily with a low boost spool-up launch @ about 5 P.S.I.

Oh, I know what thats all about... I had a '93 GMC Typhoon... I could launch at 10psi... anymore than that, and it would creep to a red-light! Unfortunately, that took quite a bit of work to get... whereas, building boost while actually off-roading would be kinda tough.

Coach

[SGT.BATGUANO]

Throw in one of Tone's looser (2500 r.p.m.?, I think) convertors and that will help get the rpm up into a more turbo-friendly range.

[VehiX]

Originally posted by coachreed
So are things THAT tight under the hood of the VX? Can someone take a couple pictures of the engine compartment to show JUST how tight it is? I appreciate it.
Coach... aka Randy!

Engine bay pic by per request :)

http://home.attbi.com/~vehicross1/Engine2.jpg

http://home.attbi.com/~vehicross1/Engine1.jpg

[Joe_Black]

The SC will outperform the turbo install on several fronts. As mentioned earlier, intercooling isn't so much as an issue because the SC doesn't transfer heat thermally nor bake the engine bay like a turbo will. The plumbing required for a turbo radiates A LOT of heat! Look under the hood of any well-engineered turbo vehicle and note all the heat shielding and seperation of intake and exhaust components. The SC just doesn't have this problem as it is engine driven with no concern for exhaust gases. You can insulate and provide cooler air intake with little problem or modifications. You can intercool before the SC but the gains will be minimal as you're not fighting the heat normally generated by a turbo install.

Now let's talk boost. The SC install is a relatively low boost design. While I'm sure you can up the boost, you're just looking to kill the VX's engine. You see, it wasn't designed to accomodate an increased intake charge. While the 4 - 8 psi the SC produces (corrections please) falls within design limits of the engine, the 14 - 28 psi a turbo can generate does not. On my Merkur I push up to 25 psi, but the engine is DESIGNED to handle this!

So why go turbo when the SC is a simpler, more efficient solution with more potential power output? Plus, the power is available when you turn the key.

[coachreed]

Joe-
Thanks for the well written response to the thread. I am used to dealing with turbo vs SC talk on street driven cars... not ones that are meant to be used off road at a MUCH slower pace. Your points are VERY valid and VERY true. I guess this comes from my having a one track mind... sometimes I choose to make things tougher than they are... just ask zuzuAmigA (original author of this thread... and a long time friend of mine)... she'll attest to my trying to make things TOUGHER than they really need be. ;pb;

TTYL!

Coach... aka Randy!

[Hotsauce]

Very funny how VX owners come from similar backgrounds. I had an XR4Ti with a 2.6 stroker, and T03/04 ball bearing 50 trim. Then i purchased an AWD Eclipse. VX, although much slower, is more balanced, and more fun to dive.

John C.

[Zu4two]

The supercharger kit from Alpine is engineered to provide up to 5 pounds of boost. Most of the time, due to it's tricky bypass valve, it runs in vacuum and it only "comes on the boost" under 3/4 to full throttle. Even though it's setup for 5 pounds, I don't think I've ever seen mine get over 4.5 lbs or so.

The main need for an intercooler arises from the temperature increase that occurs when the air is compressed by the blower. The amount of temperature increase from the hot turbo "thermal transfer" is negligible, since the air is moving pretty fast through the turbine. The increased heat of the compressed charge only becomes detrimental and in need of an intercooler on systems that generate over 8-10 pounds of boost.

Due to the design of the Alpine system, drivability both on and off road is not compromised one bit. After taking my truck out on the trail this past weekend, I can truthfully say that the the operation of the supercharger is transparent and didn't adversely effect the VX's performance off road at all. Most of the time the blower wasn't even working, being that most off road driving takes place just off idle. I think the only time I ran it into positive boost was after the trail, when I got to the graded dirt road back to the highway. There I punched it, and had some fun ;)

I don't understand why anyone would want to try to create a turbo setup for the VehiCROSS, when there is a perfectly good S/C kit already specifically engineered for it. Other than just to say that they did it.

Just my 2 cents...

Kirk

[coachreed]

Kirk-
Thanks for your great reply. I am not familiar with the Alpine SC as I am just now arriving into the VX world. Sounds like an incredibly well designed system... and sounds like your right... probably NEVER see it in positive boost in the off road world... should NEVER be going that hard in the dirt... at least not often... maybe if I see myself slowing down in the mud when I don't wanna be slowing down. I guess when it comes time for forced induction... should that ever happen, its SC time. Thanks for the info.

Coach... aka Randy!

[Joe_Black]

Thanks Randy, I try to stay off the soapbox as much as possible. LOL! Thanks much Kirk for the boost figures on the SC. Still haven't got one yet, but the wife-to-be says it's on the other side of house construction. Woohoo!

John C., I hope your comparing the VX balance to the Eclipse. The Merkur has a 52/48 balance and, as you probably know, handles like on rails. There's a reason they were banned from virtually all European competitions. DOMINATING! I recently sold my mildly modded '89 and am currently working on an '86 shell that I'm building to European Works specifications. I will retain the 2.3 mill as importing the Cosworth unit isn't practical when looking at spares. I've spent about two years getting the necessary components and am about 60% there. With about 380HP at the rear wheels it'll cause some severe confusion and pucker-factor with the local ricer/tuner crowd. It'll take a lot of self control to keep from putting a "Honda Eater" sticker on it!

[Tone]

SC kits also offer up to a 3yr/36k warranty - turbo kits do not.

Warranty
All of our non-CARB approved applications carry a "1-Year / Unlimited Mileage" warranty against defects in materials and workmanship (unless otherwise specified). Any omission or addition of parts, deviation or modification to our kit from its original intent, design, and installation instructions, or any additional modifications that may affect the performance and reliability of our kit as intended, will void this warranty.

Here's the best part, and a "first" for this type of automotive aftermarket product. S.A. Alpine Developments Inc. is offering a "3-Year / 36,000-Mile Power Train Warranty" on all of the "CARB" approved applications backed by Dell Financial Services (largest underwriter of extended automotive warranties in the world). This supersedes_the factory power train warranty!_A Dell Financial representative_or an "Authorized Alpine Developments Installation Facility" will be the only ones who can sign off on this. This_will include and cover "official" performance upgrades from Alpine Developments. These kits can also easily be installed by most home mechanics and would need to be inspected by an authorized installer to qualify.

Even more good news...we will be offering an optional_"extended warranty" on the basic kit (no modifications at all). The consumer will have up to the full 3-years or 36,000-miles to decide if they wish to purchase this extended power train warranty, that will match, or "mirror" the remaining factory power train warranty (up to an additional 8-years) as long as the vehicle has less than 50,000 miles on it! (The price for this will vary depending on the length of the factory warranty being matched, but don't anticipate it being more than an extra $200-to-$500.) The details of this are not all set yet, but as with the other warranty, will have to be "signed off" by a Dell Financial representative, or "Authorized Alpine Developments Installation Facility". We should have all this in place by the_end of February, and_should be available to existing owners! Unfortunately, any upgrades (even our own "official" upgrades) will not be covered by this extended warranty package.