No. 1 Rod Bearing Spinning on Crank Shaft

[jagusmc]

Does anyone know where I can find out information on how often this occurs? Mine happend at 78,000 miles, it is techincally covered under my extended warranty, the dealership said this is a common problem and has 4 Rodeos in the shop for the same exact thing.

My problem is my extended warranty company does not want to pay for a new engine and is trying to say that they wont pay cause its my fault for driving it and classifing it under "Continued Operation" what BS! The dealership is backing me up but looks like I might end up in court fighting this and I want to find and print out information that shows this is a consistent problem with a few of the VX's and other vehicles with same engine. Need some serious help here people.

I have a 01 Ironman that I'm going thru withdrawls not driving and so far have spent $1300 on rental while the warranty company drags their feet!

[mbeach]

You are on the wrong track with trying to link your engine failure with some un-issued recall. You'll end up fighting Isuzu and your warranty company.

It does happen, more often on the 99s, but there have been a few (dare I say many) documented cases of no.1 bearing failure. But don't expect some Isuzu engineer to fall from the sky and admit to a corporate coverup of the defect though.

Your problem is with your warranty company -assuming that you work in/around JAG, I expect that you've seen your fair share of companies trying to weasel out of contracts. Treat it like an insurance claim and keep beating them up with paperwork.

[Tone]

Wow, sorry to hear that. Strange that they would push back with continued operation - are they saying you drove it without oil?


I still believe that a majority of these are caused by low oil level or extended change intervals and not a design flaw - 99 and 01s have the same engine numbers cast in them. I drove to MO to pick up a block that suffered this fate and can find no difference between cylinder one in terms of passageways, oil holes, etc and it IS closest to the oil pump. There have been several posts regarding clunking, 2 qts low and then driving it to the oil change place or dealer and them complaining that repairs are not covered. I hope this is not your issue. Engines fail for all manufactures and Isuzu has always been known for long life engines.

[jagusmc]

Well yes I am familiar with insurance companies universally denying claims. The service tech told me they have 4 Rodeos sitting in their lot with the same exact problem. Paperwork doesn't do much good unless you have written documentation of proof, to show a track record, to prove its not an isolated event which is what the warranty company wants to assume. If I can show proof by way of other posts, complaints, experiences of the same engine failure i.e., rod bearing spinning in crankshaft then I can prove it's not me "continuously operating" my vehicle which caused this which is what the warranty company is trying to say the cause is, despite the fact the dealership is saying "No, this happens, it would have happened regardless, its not from cojntinuously driving the vehicle, it's a known and common defect/problem with this engine." The dealership service tech is the one who told me to do a search online for No. 1 rod bearing spinning in crankshaft and said I'd see tons of information to support the fact, however, I have only seen it mentioned here but thought maybe someone could point me in the right direction to find more information to support it.

[Maugan_VX]

I was under the impression that it was the #6 rod bearing that always blew in cases of engine failure.

Sorry to hear about your misfortunte though.

[jagusmc]

I know my problem is witht he warranty company but that doesn't change the fact the engine needs to be repalced at 78,000 miles thru no fault of my own. Mine is the No. 1 rod bearing spinning. Oil changes were done on a VERY religious/regular basis no more than 4200 miles in between and always used Mobil 1 and never any idication of oil burn. This literally came out of nowhere with no warning, no sign or lack of performance. I'm not against Izusu, I just think it sucks all the way around that the engine went bad.

I kept my service and maintenance records but they lacked the Vin number so at first the warranty company was trying to say they were invalid (what a joke) then they approved tear down and when the dealership found the casue and said it needed a new engine they said well just replace the parts that are affected, well that was $8187 compared to a new engine at $7952. Well once they found that out and sent their inspectors out, the inspector/adjuster agreed it needed a new engine, then the warranty company said well if you drove it to the dealership cause it was making this noise then you continuously operated it. they fail to realize this is a problem that happens, continuous operation has nothing to do with it but under that clause they can get away with not paying for the engine, however they are willing to pay for half, roughly $4100 and that includes the new cd player and drivers side window motor. The dealership says this is VERY common with the 3.5 engines and is not any fault of the owners, it would have happened regardless. Yet apparently the warranty company feels it knows more about vehicles specifically the VehiCross of which I've had to educate them on cause they had no clue what it was. I've faxed them several posts of people stating their sameengines failed with Troopers and VX's and the warranty company doesn't care lol, apparently they just dont want to pay for a new engine. I'm hoping it will get resolved BUT if not, I'm renting a car for the next 3 months and sueing the **** out of them

However I just had the oil changed that morning with no noise and was at the dealership inquiring bout how to change my headlight bulb and finding out I had to take the whole front end off, so I got back in VX andstarted it and noticed the noise. Went back in and got service tech. Now the warranty company wants a statement written from service tech that I came in for a headlight bulb issue and then noticed the noise when I was trying to leave, instead of having hte noise and then driving to dealership for it. They are assuming thats what happened despite records of engine failures with other vehicles. They claim each vehicle is treated individually yet they claim given their experience this is why my engine failed was continuous operation yet the dealership says no this is not the case. It could possibly go to court, my attorny is standing by on the ready, were waiting to hear back now that the head service tech faxed them a statement saying I came in for a headlight not a engine failing. Easy Care is the name of the warranty company, a bunch of slime balls. 67 complaints against them with the BBB within a 36 month period yet that is considered satisfactory by their standards and we all know the BBB is worthless they serve the companies not the consumers, the ratings mean nothing in all reality.

[mbeach]

Search "oil pumping phenomena." This will background one of the oil loss theories. I also have a post regarding the sudden loss of large quantities of oil, search again.

There are differences between the oil scraper rings and ring grooves from 99 to 00. There is a bulletin out there, which I have a copy of, dated 4/02. It addresses a change, to AFFECTED vehicles. However, I do not know what "affected" means, and I have no other documentation.
The fact is, there was a problem, and it's been corrected, or at least addressed. Don't expect Isuzu to own up to it though.

Interesting .pdfs:

[psychos2]

mbeach, the rings they are refering to are compression rings. the #1 ring meaning the top compression ring and the #2 ring meaning the second compression ring.the change in procedure is more than likely to be from a change in there supplier.and neither one of these is an oil control ring.

and the continued operation just means that after hearing the noise you did more damage by not shutting off the engine.you did nothing to prevent further damage.if it was me i would more likely prove to them that it did not matter that you drove back to the dealer because once the bearing spins the damage is done the crank is toast.they have a similar clause for boats that have sunk.if you do not do anything to prevent further damage they will not pay.an example is not removing water from the engine thus damaging it further. shawn

[mbeach]

There is a .002" difference in the oil control ring gap from the 99s to 00s.
Look at the "ringgap" file.
Why?

Also, a simple "change in supplier" would not cause a vehicle to be "affected" by anything -in fact, it would go unnoticed at the service level unless a problem or defect had been identified.

[psychos2]

mbeach, they changed there specs from .006-.016 to .006-.018 which really does nothing.if anything it would let more oil by if you where at the .018 mark.you would want to be closer to the .006 gap anyway.and as far as affected vehicles the rings they refer to are the "compression rings" not the oil rings. the " oil control " rings are on the bottom.they are not the #1 or #2 ring. mabye the "affected vehicles " have a compression problem. shawn

[mbeach]

I am aware of how the rings are arranged on a piston. Thanks for the refresher anyhow.

The point is, there is a difference from the 99s -WHY?? .002 isn't much, but it's a difference none the less. From an engineer's perspective, why change what works fine to begin with?

Also, if in fact "AFFECTED" applies to vehicles that have suffered compression problems (or maybe oil blow-by), why are we not aware of this?

This document is significant in terms of the fact that it is the FIRST time that I have ever seen Isuzu acknowledge a failure/defect/replacement procedure for the piston rings on these engines. The same piston rings that have been suspected of allowing drastic drops in oil level in numerous cases.

Notice:
When these bearing failures occur, there is almost always a sudden loss of oil (as read on the dipstick). Where'd it go? I'll bet a dollar to a dogturd that it went out the tailpipe. Combine faulty rings with dirty oil and a clogged "lube hole" in a bearing and BAM you need a new engine.

I check the oil level in both VXs at least once a week. It's a bother, but I like the smell of oil and I deal with it. Despite my preventative measures, I can still loose a motor in an instant (as has nearly happened, search "valve cover gasket"). My solution is to keep 1 engine's worth of $$ in the bank at all times, solely for the purpose of replacement. When I get some space, I'll just buy a motor and keep it in storage until the time comes. This solution may not work for everyone, but it easier than fighting some crappy warranty company and being without my truck for weeks waiting on parts.

This issue has been beat to death. I've already decided that going after Isuzu is a lost cause, hence the "motor fund."
The point for JagUSMC is, deal with your warranty company, not Isuzu.