oil pump removal

[Tobert]

Is it possible to get the oil pump off without pulling the oil pan?

I'm sure the leak is at the oil pump somewhere now.

Which is easier? Pull the engine or drop the front axle?

My other truck sold today so this just got moved way up in priority ;)

Pictures of the oil pump:

http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/7685/dscf31213xi.th.jpg (http://img55.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf31213xi.jpg)
http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/8044/dscf31208zx.th.jpg (http://img236.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf31208zx.jpg)
http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/6674/dscf31192vc.th.jpg (http://img236.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf31192vc.jpg)

Thanks!
-Tobert

[WyldWeasel]

I just got back from Missouri, where I purchased a Proton for the hunny. I bought it at a small dealership and since the inspector I paid to check the car out pre-purchase noted alot of seepage around the oil pan and tranny pan, I immediately took it over to Jack Miller Isuzu in Kansas City, MO.

Andy, the Isuzu mechanic there, said that what tends to leak the most on these cars if it's not the oil pan is the seals. So you might want to look at the rear seal being your culprit. Not that I'm all that mechanically inclined but when he walked me around under the VX giving me a tour of what was right and what was wrong with my purchase, he mentioned that if there was still leakage after the oil cap gasket and the other leaks were fixed, that it's more than likely the seal.

[psychos2]

What exactly is your problem ? Oil leak in the front of the motor ? The oil pump is in the oil pan . The pic is of the place were the oil filter adapter bolts to the front of the motor. shawn

[psychos2]

Found your previous post. So you have an oil leak in the front. If the oil was coming from where you unbolted the adapter I would start by replacing the gasket,o-rings or whatever seals that up. Could be the adapter itself . It could be the seal on the crankshaft. Where on the front of the motor did you notice the oil ? If the oil pump was leaking it would not be leaking where you could see it. shawn

[Tobert]

Found your previous post. So you have an oil leak in the front. If the oil was coming from where you unbolted the adapter I would start by replacing the gasket,o-rings or whatever seals that up. Could be the adapter itself . It could be the seal on the crankshaft. Where on the front of the motor did you notice the oil ? If the oil pump was leaking it would not be leaking where you could see it. shawn

I cleaned up around the pan and found the oil was coming out near the A/C unit not far above the oil pan. I decided to pull it apart and replace the front seal and all gaskets in that area. Now that it's apart, it doesn't appear to be the front seal but I'm gonna replace it anyways. It's either a faulty silicone job or one of those O-rings.

I still need to know if the front seal housing (the shop manual labels it as the oil pump) requires the oil pan to be pulled to replace it. I'm probably gonna bite the bullet tomorrow and pull the front axle & oil pan to be sure before I bust any more ears off that thing. It won't budge.

[Tobert]

Got the front transaxle out today. Pulled the sump pan ... eww. There are brass _flakes_ in there. It looks like the engine was recently reassembled, so I'm hoping it's break-in debris. I got all the bolts out of the oil pan (what a pain), but the pan won't come off. I guess it's not the source of the leak ;)

Either way it's going to come off somehow ... if I break it, I guess I'll have to find one. It's getting tempting to just order a crate engine at this point, though. I still haven't found any obvious sources of the oil leak and have found plenty of other things that make me nervous.

Would that new 3.5 people have been talking about bolt in directly? I can handle the wiring without too much trouble but don't want to have to fab too much in the way of exhaust and brackets.

I'll update with some pics of the pan crud later when my wife relinquishes the laptop...

Looks like I do have to pull the pan ... was searching for parts and found this:
http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/9082/oilpump1hy.th.jpg (http://img54.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oilpump1hy.jpg)

[Tobert]

I got the rest of the oil pan off. Sometimes you just have to listen to dad ... I was trying to pry it off and generally avoid beating on it with a hammer. My dad said, "get a 2x4 and thump it until it comes free." Works like a charm and I didn't even damage the pan!

Anyways, good news (or maybe bad). Judging by color differences, somebody rebuilt the engine recently since the crank, rods, and pistons look brand new while the rest of the engine is severely tarnished. I would have thought they would at least clean that up, but whatever.

Here is the picture of the junk I found in the sump pan:
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3156/medium/pan-flakes-800x600-DSCF3129.JPG

My current guess is that's break-in junk. I hope. Second opinions?

Here are some pictures of the bottom end of the engine. I now know why the pan has to come off the replace the oil pump. I'm not sure why the previous person working on it didn't do that step - I always replace oil pumps when replacing bearings. I don't think they replaced the seals around the pump either, which is probably where my oil leak came from.

Behold:
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3156/medium/DSCF3139.JPG
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/3156/medium/DSCF3143.JPG

I hope this isn't a hackjob where the bearings will go again soon if they had spun in the block. Maybe they started knocking and the owner fixed it right away, but there's no evidence of any of the rods being new (all have what appear to be scars for being knocked off with a hammer).

[Tobert]

I got my VX all put back together and drove it around today. Damn thing still leaks. I'm going to take it to a local garage and have them use their UV light to find the true source of the leak. I'm fearing it's a head gasket now. There is no sign of it being the valve covers.

I'm still glad I replaced the oil pump. I got to see the bottom end of my engine and clean up inside the pan. I also found a bunch of things installed wrong and took care of most of them. The only remaining big bummer is that I cracked an A/C line by accident. Oh well. We'll see if the JB weld holds when it gets hot.

Anybody ever get oil leaking via the head gaskets? It looks like they've been on and off.

[steelzeus]

do a compression check because if the head gasket is leaking oil you've probably got a blown head gasket. you may be thinking the valve cover is where the head gasket is and those do leak if there tightened to tight.

[Tobert]

http://vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=2960&highlight=intake+gasket

Only found one other post like what I've found.

There is oil pooled in the intake valley.

I took the VX in to a local shop to have dye put in the oil and have them trace the leak. Their result (at $55) was a big "idunno." I cleaned the sides of the block more and started tracing on my own some more. I ended up looking at the top of the engine for some reason and noticed the oil in the valley. It definitely has dye in it.

How could the PCV possibly get that much oil in there? Shouldn't the oil pulled by the PCV get burned up?

Where the heck is this coming from?

Anyways, I'm gonna pull the intake this weekend and see what I can see.

[Tone]

If there is oil in the valley UNDERNEATH the intake manifold, then it is probably the head gasket(s). Email me if you need a pic of the raw block with the heads off. I also have a perfect set of heads if you end up needing them. DI 3.5 will NOT be a drop in replacement.

[IndianaVX]

Just wanted to add this.... I had a leak that was darn near impossible to track. It was leaking drop around the AC compressor like the original poster mentioned. As it turned out, the "mechanic" that worked on my driver side head, had the whole head apart, and replaced the front cam seal with a generic seal instead of a proper OEM seal! So what happened was the generic seal was ever so slightly undersized and popped out of the channel it is supposed to fit into. This allowed oil to leak out where the cam exits out the front of the head. This is of course covered by the timing belt cover. So the oil leaked from the cam, behind the cover, down the front of the block, and pooled at the bottom inside of the timing belt cover, and then " leaked" by the "AC compressor" making me think it was the oil pan. Just something I hope helps others when looking for a mysterious leak that can't be found.