Update on Morgan-tec S/C kit development

[morgan-tec]

Well i thought i would update you guys on the kit progress. I am almost done with all the machining, just need to cut the belt pattern in the crank pulley extension. Should be spinning a belt tomarrow and then i will start on the intake tubing, hoping to be blowing and tunning by next week sometime. Here are some pics of the prototype mounting bracket and pulley setup.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/195531/100_1102.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/195531/100_1097.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/195531/100_1095.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/195531/100_1100.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/195531/100_1101.jpg

[VehiX]

Very nice, I can't wait to see the final results. Are you planning on selling these and if so what would a ball park guesstimate be for the cost?

Keep up the good work man!!!

[Maugan_VX]

also, side-by-side performance comparisons to the Alpine would be nice as well.

[volume311]

Finally you put some photos up, I thought you forgot all about this project.
Seems like changing the serpentine belt would be a royal pain and you would need to remove the SC bracket. Also, I see that you got rid off the mechanical fan assembly and went to electric?

[WormGod]

Awesome! Keep it up. Makes me want to get crackin' on my VX now. I have been lazy and need to get the ball rollin'. :(

[Ruflyf]

Finally you put some photos up, I thought you forgot all about this project.
Seems like changing the serpentine belt would be a royal pain and you would need to remove the SC bracket. Also, I see that you got rid off the mechanical fan assembly and went to electric?


The serpentine belt on the Alpine s/c is the same way Volume311, the bracket still has to be removed to change it.

[mbeach]

Looking good!
This is a nice alternative, these SCs can be picked up on EBay and parts are more readily available.
Also, there looks to be the potential for intercooling here.

[Maugan_VX]

whats the price/performance ratio of these types of setups as compared to the alpine?

[mbeach]

I'd guess that the hp/dollar factor is going to be nearly identical.

Each type has its own pros though.
The Alpine is definately a slick, OEM style install.
The Centrifugal unit is upgradeable.
The Alpine is quieter.
The Centrifugal sounds cooler.

I suppose that it's just a matter of preference.

[skunkworks]

The Alpine is CARB certified
________
buy mflb (http://www.vaporshop.com/mflb-vaporizer.html)

[volume311]

Bah, Carb shmarb, I'm in florida :p

[morgan-tec]

Okay lets see if i can answer some of these ?s.

1. I am planning on selling these but i need to fit it up on a local VX first. As for cost i am not sure yet, it all depends on if i can get dealer status with Powerdyne, plus i am still figuring mfg. cost on all the machine parts.

2. You would need to remove the main bracket to change the engine serp belt but, this is part of the beauty of this kit, four bolts and the entire thing comes off the engine. Less than 10min.

3. I chose the use the powerdyne BD-11a blower for a few reasons. First is that it is completly self contained, no engine oil, gear oil, or coolant needed. It is a silent drive unit which means it has its own serp belt inside it so you do not get the loud whine typical of Paxtons, vortecs or prochargers. It also uses a very agressive vein design that gives the best low rpm torque and power of any Centrifugal blower out there, this also means that the power comes on at lower rpms that typical for Centrifugal type designs. It will develop power later in the rpm range than the alpine but untill i get it done and on the dyno i will not be sure of the exact data.

4. It will not be CARB certified since i am using an HKS SSQV blow off valve that vents to atmosphere.

5. Intercooling could be possible but it is already tight so i am not sure if it would be realistic to try. Also since this blower has no internal or external lubrication the air discharge temps will not be much higher than naturaly aspriated.

6. It will be required to swich to an electric fan assembly to make room for the bracket, belt, and pulley. I did this swap over a year ago and am very happy, my temp is more consistant and lower than with my OEM mechanical fan. Plus the loss of the fans parasitic loss will help to offset the blower units.

I think i got them all, i will keep you guys posted, i am planning on having it running in the next week or two. Thanks for the comments and please feel free to keep asking ?s I am hoping that you guys come up with some i have not though of yet.

[mbeach]

2. You would need to remove the main bracket to change the engine serp belt but, this is part of the beauty of this kit, four bolts and the entire thing comes off the engine. Less than 10min.
It almost looks as if you could take the intake/exhaust hoses off of the s-charger and wiggle the serp belt past it without removing the bracket or the supercharger. You'd have to disconnect it's drive belt, but that's the easy part. Still very slick...



4. It will not be CARB certified since i am using an HKS SSQV blow off valve that vents to atmosphere.
Even if you used a recirculating valve (as in all OEM turbo apps), and returned the vented air to the SC intake, you'd still not have CARB approval. It doesn't matter to many of us though. I only have to visit the sticker guy every 2 years...



5. Intercooling could be possible but it is already tight so i am not sure if it would be realistic to try. Also since this blower has no internal or external lubrication the air discharge temps will not be much higher than naturaly aspriated.
If the air's getting compressed, it's getting heated. If that exhaust port on the compressor side of the charger can be "clocked" around to the 3 o' clock position, it'd be a simple matter of plumbing the piping down the driver's side, across the IC in front and up the passenger side (may have to move the battery) to the throttle body. Either way, it'd be an option, and not a requirement.
I'm more wondering how your going to plumb the intake for the SC -it looks tight to the power steering fluid resevoir.



6. It will be required to swich to an electric fan assembly to make room for the bracket, belt, and pulley. I did this swap over a year ago and am very happy, my temp is more consistant and lower than with my OEM mechanical fan. Plus the loss of the fans parasitic loss will help to offset the blower units.
Very cool, part numbers please?



I think i got them all, i will keep you guys posted, i am planning on having it running in the next week or two. Thanks for the comments and please feel free to keep asking ?s I am hoping that you guys come up with some i have not though of yet.
Thanks for your work, I need to get hopping on my VX community service project as well.
Oh, can you fab up a dual in/ dual out muffler?

[morgan-tec]

If you wanted to go with a front mount intercooler then yes it could be done, and it would not really be that hard. As for the S/C intake the tube has to make a pretty tight 180 to come back forward and then the MAF and filter go right next to the stock air intake hole in the fender well. There is a spacer and bolt that would stop you from slipping the serp belt off the way you describe but the bracket is really easy to remove. My guess is that even with the fan swap the entire install should take less then 4 hours with a somewhat skilled wrench. As for the CARB, since this is so easy to put on it is just as easy to take off if you had to to go get the sticker.

AS for the muffler, pm me with the specs and i will get you a quote, i need tubing size and choice of stainless or steel.

[morgan-tec]

Okay belt is on and i had it spinning tonight. Much louder than i was expecting but not crazy like prochargers. Intake tubes next week and then we hit the dyno for some tuning.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/195531/100_1176.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/195531/100_1179.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/195531/100_1178.jpg

[Andrey]

Very nice ! Do you expect significant increase in fuel consumption ? Interesting if in the future it will be possible to have a model with "on demand" feature - like A/C compressor - it just sits there and waits for you to push that A/C button :)

[Hotsauce]

Thats the way all superchargers are. no boost at cruise, instant boost at WOT. The clutched in SC you saw on Mad Max is a falicy.

John C.

[Knigh7s]

I can't stop drueling! Can't wait to see the dyno results. Put me down for one when you have a production model ready!! =P

[Nazrat]

Thats the way all superchargers are. no boost at cruise, instant boost at WOT. The clutched in SC you saw on Mad Max is a falicy.

John C.

Not entirely true. Mercedes uses a clutch on the front of their superchargers, for the sake of fuel economy.

Some brief info at:
http://www.sae.org/automag/techbriefs/07-2001/techb3.htm

-Tad

[volume311]

Hope MTdoesn't mind, discovered this by accident
http://s66.photobucket.com/albums/h266/morgan-tec/?action=view&current=100_1180.flv

[morgan-tec]

No worries man i was just about to post that video here. The motor is still running off the intake so it looks a little wierd but it served the purpose i was wanting. Belt is stable all the way to red line. Here it is again
:

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h266/morgan-tec/th_100_1180.jpg (http://s66.photobucket.com/albums/h266/morgan-tec/?action=view&current=100_1180.flv)

[morgan-tec]

I rerouted the belt and added another idler pulley to control belt flap, here is the video:

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h266/morgan-tec/th_3a42559c.jpg (http://s66.photobucket.com/albums/h266/morgan-tec/?action=view&current=3a42559c.flv)

[mbeach]

You have an interesting opportunity before you.

Take the Ax to a dyno now -run it with and without the SC belt attached. I'm wondering how much horsepower is lost just spinning that belt.

[morgan-tec]

I am planning a dyno day that i will be doing a bunch of runs:

1. Stock airbox with just my exhaust
2. Morgan-tec intake and exhaust
3. Morgan-tec intake and exhaust with S/C belt on
4. Supercharger kit on and morgan-tec exhaust

I will get electronic files of all of them so i can show ya'll, thanls for the suggestion

[morgan-tec]

well i am getting closer, here are some pics of the final tube fitup, all i need to do is weld them up and get the right pulley on the blower and i should be makin power.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/195531/100_1299.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/195531/100_1302.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/195531/100_1307.jpg

[WormGod]

The space available pretty much forces you to find an air induction alternative. What ideas do you have for that?

Looking great.

[Maugan_VX]

powerdyne BD-11A on ebay right now:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Powerdyne-BD-11A-Centrifugal-Supercharger_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33741QQite mZ8074531504QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

If I wasn't buying a house.....

[kpaske]

I can't wait to see how this project turns out. Do you have a better estimation now of when these kits might be for sale?

[morgan-tec]

Well i got it all done and am starting the testing phase, please excuse the too wide pulley and the rag under the intake tube. I am very pleased with the results. I am still dialing in the the correct pulley size, for now i am running a 3.33" that gives me 5psi here at my elevation. I was suprised that the power comes on so quick, you dont really see boost untill about 4k rpm but even from idle to 4k it is a noticable amount stronger. And once you hit boost it really takes off. It is pretty quiet, you do hear it a little at idle and it gets a little louder at boost but nothing crazy like a procharger but louder than the alpine. The blow off valve setup works perfectly, blowing the second you let off the gas. I am planning a dyno day to get a bunch of data and i plan on road testing it for at least a few months of heavy abuse. Here are a bunch of pics, let me know what you guys think.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/195531/100_1329.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/195531/100_1335.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/195531/100_1330.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/195531/100_1336.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/195531/100_1332.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/195531/100_1331.jpg

[morgan-tec]

The space available pretty much forces you to find an air induction alternative. What ideas do you have for that?

Looking great.

I had to switch to a Greddy style air filter, this one is a cheap knock off but i was just going for clearance at this point in time. I will be upgrading to a real Greddy soon since i know it fits.

[Hotsauce]

Make a baffle from the drivers side radiator shroud to keep from drawing in hot air from the radiator. HUGE difference on the Alpine kit to get cooler air.

John C.

[Maugan_VX]

would there be a way of pulling in air from the wheel well like the stock setup?

I just cringe thinking about driving through monsoons and big puddles with an intake like that.

[morgan-tec]

The filter protrudes into the stock hole in the fender a little and about a 1/4 of the filter draws directly from the hole. As for the water concern, it is not much different than my intake kits and i have never had a problem with them.

[Maugan_VX]

how many mud holes have you driven through in your axiom? :)

[mbeach]

Looks nice, you do good work and should be proud.

[morgan-tec]

how many mud holes have you driven through in your axiom? :)

Okay i deserved that one, and to answer that... 1 and it was the week i bought it...........You could put a water bypass in the intake tube to be safe.

[Maugan_VX]

Cool deal.

I'm interested to see what this turns out to cost.

[morgan-tec]

Here is a video of the finished product in action, as for the cost i am not sure yet but the best price i can get on the blowers is $1500, so i may offer just the kit and let people get their own blowers from where ever they want.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h266/morgan-tec/th_dac7c405.jpg (http://s66.photobucket.com/albums/h266/morgan-tec/?action=view&current=dac7c405.flv)

[Maugan_VX]

yeah how much for the kit, and what would it include?
bracket obviously...
intake? pipes? clamps? Belts? Pulleys?

[morgan-tec]

It would include everyting except the blower head and maybe the electric fan, but as i said above i am not sure yet.

[kpaske]

If I were to bite on this one I would prefer a complete kit, including the turbo and electric fan. Getting everything from one place simplifies the purchase and ensures that you are getting compatible and complete parts sets.

[volume311]

Sweeeeeeeeet. Love that S/C whine. That doesnt sound like a bad idea on selling a kit w/ out the powerhead. If I had more money than a broke college student that's what I would go for.

MT just would have to list the part #'s for us.

[volume311]

So I was sittin in class today playin gold on my cellphone when I had a thought, who woulda thunk?

How about relocating the battery to the trunk mounting two of those puppy's under the hood. I think that would be :flame: if the tranny holds up and someone figures out how to tune the ecu.