no more EGR ??

[orion]

Can our 3.5s live happily without the EGR and the holes capped off? i know all about the emissions concerns, but we don't get tested here. i had an AMC eagle with idle problems, removed and capped the EGR and she ran great for years. with it being a problem spot for us, i thought just remove it. or maybe i'm just crazy? please help.

[Hotsauce]

try it unplugged and see.

John C.

[Tobert]

For one thing, your check engine light will always be on, so it won't be able to alert you to any new problems that may arise.

There is also the potential that not having EGR for a long period of time could put your engine outside of the operating parameters it was designed for. This could be something as simple as running lean on the freeway for a couple hours and burning a valve. It could do nothing. For this engine, which was designed with EGR in mind, I would leave it on there. That's coming from a guy who is also in a non-emissions state and have run vehicles without catalytic converters or emissions pumps.

[mbeach]

I'd have to check to be sure, but the addition of the exhaust gas to the intake tract also helps to keep cylinder temperatures lower. This could be a matter of keeping the miture from becoming too lean, or it could be something else.

I say keep your nuts tight and leave the EGR valve in place.

[Joe_Black]

I would be hesitant to remove it because, as mentioned above, our engine was deveolped to have an EGR system from the outset rather than added on to meet some Federal mandate. Even in other nations with different emission requirements the 6VE1 still has the EGR system, which IIRC complements the variable-length intake runner design.

Of course we're always interested in the results if you're willing to become the guinea pig. :p

[orion]

Thanks you guys for the feedback. i think I'll be a good boy and leave it alone.

[mbeach]

The EGR valve is closed during idle and full throttle operation -so I could see where you'd want to remove it to improve performance. However, its benefits would be outweighed by all of the problems that would arise during its absence.

[bulldog]

So could my EGR be bad then? its giving me a reading of too lean and my check engine light is on and its running rough and sometimes even stalling,,I have no idea how to fix that

[mbeach]

Clean it out and see...
There's a dozen reasons why you could be running lean -a stuck (open) EGR would only be one of them. How's it run at cruising speed?


It looks like you are looking for some (musical) gigs -what do you play? I used to be a (fairly) well-respected bouncer at the Frog, Bear and Wild Boar Bar -maybe I could call the guys and put in a word for you..?

[thedutchguy]

don't forget that the egr is there for reducing nox in your exhaust gasses by reducing your combustion temperature!

[bulldog]

that would be awesome if i could play there,,ive already played at Kafe Kerouac and Thirsty Ear here in columbus,,i used to play all over Dayton and other places,, just trying to break into the market here,,thanks mbeach I would appreciate that,,,if you can give me an email address that would be even better and then i can forward my electronic press kit to them www.sonicbids.com/darrenjones

at cruising speed it runs fine thats why i cant figure it out and ive already cleaned the egr

[mbeach]

The FBWB's GM is now part owner of the Skyy Bar (his name is Dave Allsbrooks). I don't know who took over his position, but it's likely to be someone who's been there for awhile. There are 3 owners, but they have little to do with talent selection. They are all good people. If you get in with that crowd, all of Columbus is open to you...
The bar hired a new marketing guy (despite the fact that two of their employees/bartenders have marketing degrees) -he's a tool, and responsible for bringing B. Honest into the club on my last night (a year ago). They (B. Honest) honestly sucked. He might've been let go since then...
Go to frogbearbar.com for instructions on how to submit a demo tape. They might be able to slot you in a solo night (maybe a Wednesday) on the patio.
Find out who will be reviewing your tape and let me know who it is. I've been meaning to call those guys (and girls mmmmm.... the girls....) and say hello.
Either way, tell anyone/everyone that I (Marlon Beach) recommended you -tell them how you know me, and how to get in touch with me. It's a good place to work, and there's surprisingly little turnover considering the business. Someone is bound to remember me.
They get literally hundreds of submissions a month -you have to stand out or know someone to get in.

As for your EGR, I'm stumped.

[-x-]

my egr either went bad or got stuck and threw a code. after a healthy tune up i realized that the egr was the main cause of my horrific idleing, seeing as to how i didnt have 150-180 buck laying around but i did have a metal plate i decided to block off the egr = ) man does it run smooth. I AM NOT SAYING IT IS GOOD FOR THE ENGINE but it does get up to speed VERY smoothly more so than before i have been planning to unblock it again and see if it was jus stuck but yea that the long and short of it its been about a month now still running strong yes the code stays on no i have checked to veify its only the egr code throwing the check engin light, hmmm maybe something to do this weekend on top of the other 500 things to do on my limited time off ; )

[mbeach]

So from your description, it sounds like your EGR was stuck open -it was recirculating exhaust gasses at idle (bad).

Does someone sell and EGR rebuild kit if your EGR valve is too far gone to simply clean?

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

correct me if I'm wrong; but, couldn't one if one so desired block off the egr where the inlet pipe bolts up to the engine (exhaust). Also, one could use the egr gasket as a template and make a tin blocking plate to be placed directly under the egr itself.

this would not only block the egr from functioning, but also leave it in place for show (where visual inspection dictates a egr to be seen) and leave the electrical harness connected so that a check engine light wouldn't be on for a disconnected harness?

****not condoning this act nor have I tried it myself...just bored and doing waaaaay to much devious thinking.

****also not sure what effect higher cylinder temps would have on oil usage for your particular engine!

The thoughts of a Supercharged engine w/cold air intake providing a completely fresh air/fuel mixture to the cylinders devoid of reburnt exhaust sounds yummie!
:flame2::flame::evil::flame::flame2:

[Spyder]

Two bolts take the egr off.
You can take it off clean it and have it back on in about 30 min.
My egr gave me trouble, I cleaned it and it fixed the problem.
But...It started doing the same thing a few months later and I ended up just replacing it.

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

correct me if I'm wrong; but, couldn't one if one so desired block off the egr where the inlet pipe bolts up to the engine (exhaust). Also, one could use the egr gasket as a template and make a tin blocking plate to be placed directly under the egr itself.

this would not only block the egr from functioning, but also leave it in place for show (where visual inspection dictates a egr to be seen) and leave the electrical harness connected so that a check engine light wouldn't be on for a disconnected harness?

****not condoning this act nor have I tried it myself...just bored and doing waaaaay to much devious thinking.

****also not sure what effect higher cylinder temps would have on oil usage for your particular engine!

The thoughts of a Supercharged engine w/cold air intake providing a completely fresh air/fuel mixture to the cylinders devoid of reburnt exhaust sounds yummie!
:flame2::flame::evil::flame::flame2:

Was 300 miles away from doing the usual remove EGR & clean carbon when I got the ole check engine light for the EGR. Removed..cleaned it out with Sea Foam....and said what the heck...made a blocking plate out of a wall cover switch plate from Lowe's for $1.69 and voila...runs like a rape date! No more exhaust smothering these Supercharged cylinders!

[VehiGAZ]

Pictures of what to block off, please???

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

Pictures of what to block off, please???


I had a spare EGR gasket and just used it as a template on a wall switch cover plate using a sharpie black marker....cut out with tin snips..used a dremel to deburr...center punched & drilled out the two bolt holes and voila. I left the EGR gasket stuck to the base of the EGR and reinserted the two bolts..then slid the blocking plate over the bolts & put the extra EGR gasket (came with Supercharger IIRC) under plate and then set entire assembly back on mounting face...tightened bolts. Easy job and completely reversible if need be.

The only thing I'm concerned with is keeping an eye on the oil usage as in theory the cylinder temps should be higher since you are now burning (exclusively) air/fuel without reburnt exhaust entering the picture. Took it for a test drive & no check engine lights as EGR is still connected to plug.

I'll take a quick pic and post.

[VehiGAZ]

I had a spare EGR gasket and just used it as a template on a wall switch cover plate using a sharpie black marker....cut out with tin snips..used a dremel to deburr...center punched & drilled out the two bolt holes and voila. I left the EGR gasket stuck to the base of the EGR and reinserted the two bolts..then slid the blocking plate over the bolts & put the extra EGR gasket (came with Supercharger IIRC) under plate and then set entire assembly back on mounting face...tightened bolts. Easy job and completely reversible if need be.

I guess that will make sense if I have my EGR in my hand...

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/medium/My_VX_0011.jpg

The blocking plate is that thin metal plate you see down at the bottom of the EGR where the gasket would be...it is a metal plate "shaped" like a gasket but has no holes in it to "breath"..just the two holes for the EGR mounting bolts to pass through like a gasket has. Hope this helps.

[nater]

Guys, EGR's main purpose is to reduce the combustion chamber temperature. If you block off a working EGR, you will actually LOSE power, as the combustion chamber will be that much hotter when you step on the throttle. If blocking the EGR appears to have improved the engine, that's because there was something wrong with your EGR system in the first place.

Nate

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

Guys, EGR's main purpose is to reduce the combustion chamber temperature. If you block off a working EGR, you will actually LOSE power, as the combustion chamber will be that much hotter when you step on the throttle. If blocking the EGR appears to have improved the engine, that's because there was something wrong with your EGR system in the first place.

Nate

I agree to disagree. The EGR's main purpose is emission control by "reburning" the exhaust gasses entering the EGR pipe on the passenger side of the engine block. It achieves this by sending exhaust gasses to your EGR valve which sends them into your intake to be sucked back into your cylinders for re-burning. The result is lower cylinder temperatures because the cylinders are not burning at high efficiency due to the "smothering" going on. Eliminate the exhaust going in during the intake stroke and you have only fuel & air going in. I've done this mod on my '82 Trans Am, '88 Fiero, '79 Bronco all with improved hp as felt by my butt dyno. I don't care if nobody here does it...I'm doing it. I'm only concerned with my PCV functioning which in my opinion could lead to oil burn-off if the EGR is blocked & the PCV ceases to function. THis already has happened in the past...that's why I have a breather cap installed so I can SEE when this happens...plus pull the little dipstik thingie to check the oil level.

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

uh oh. I got a P0401 code thrown on my way to work tonight. "EGR Insufficient flow rate detected". I guess not...with a fricken block-off plate installed! Now I got to decide if how good she runs now is worth either ignoring the light (on most of the time anyways for EVAP fault over last few years!) or removing the bulb :eek:

I didn't anticipate flow rate detection as on previous vehicles the EGR had no way to detect this.

I think I'm gonna pull the bulb as I tried once to fix the EVAP problem (broken wire discovered when we dropped my fuel tank to mount my rear baja style tire carrier...there is a T.S.B. out from ISUZU concerning this broken wire too...fixed wire...EVAP still fails! Figure it most likely is the purge valve.)
Figure if I pull the bulb I'll do periodic code reads (what I do now anyway since light is almost always on!)


On a final note...I swear my gas mileage today was better than normal as I usually can't get more than 40-50 and rarely 60 miles on the first quarter tank...today I've got 45 and its showing 1/8 tank consumed.

[Joe_Black]

I agree to disagree. The EGR's main purpose is emission control by "reburning" the exhaust gasses entering the EGR pipe on the passenger side of the engine block. It achieves this by sending exhaust gasses to your EGR valve which sends them into your intake to be sucked back into your cylinders for re-burning. The result is lower cylinder temperatures because the cylinders are not burning at high efficiency due to the "smothering" going on. Eliminate the exhaust going in during the intake stroke and you have only fuel & air going in. I've done this mod on my '82 Trans Am, '88 Fiero, '79 Bronco all with improved hp as felt by my butt dyno. I don't care if nobody here does it...I'm doing it. I'm only concerned with my PCV functioning which in my opinion could lead to oil burn-off if the EGR is blocked & the PCV ceases to function. THis already has happened in the past...that's why I have a breather cap installed so I can SEE when this happens...plus pull the little dipstik thingie to check the oil level.
JollyRoger you're right on as to the function of the EGR as it's an emissions-control technique and has no benefit to the function or performance of the engine. I too ditch the system wherever and whenever I can, but haven't on our VX's as it hasn't faulted yet. If it ain't broke! You shouldn't be concerned about PCV failure related to the EGR block-off as the two are not related functionally. The PCV operated from engine vacuum tapped at the intake to provide "Positive Crankcase Ventilation". The "Positive" is a bit misleading as it doesn't impy positive pressure on the crankcase side but rather an authorative ventilation method as provided by engine vacuum. Replace your PCV grommet every couple years and change the PCV itself every other oil-change and you'll have no problems unless you get a defective new PCV, but that's why you should check your oil regularly too! Otherwise you could retrofit a crankcase breather to the valve cover in lieu of the PCV.

For those using an EGR block-off we just need to determine what signal the ECU is looking for from the EGR so it can be "fooled" into thinking it's operating normally.

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

JollyRoger you're right on as to the function of the EGR as it's an emissions-control technique and has no benefit to the function or performance of the engine. I too ditch the system wherever and whenever I can, but haven't on our VX's as it hasn't faulted yet. If it ain't broke! You shouldn't be concerned about PCV failure related to the EGR block-off as the two are not related functionally. The PCV operated from engine vacuum tapped at the intake to provide "Positive Crankcase Ventilation". The "Positive" is a bit misleading as it doesn't impy positive pressure on the crankcase side but rather an authorative ventilation method as provided by engine vacuum. Replace your PCV grommet every couple years and change the PCV itself every other oil-change and you'll have no problems unless you get a defective new PCV, but that's why you should check your oil regularly too! Otherwise you could retrofit a crankcase breather to the valve cover in lieu of the PCV.

For those using an EGR block-off we just need to determine what signal the ECU is looking for from the EGR so it can be "fooled" into thinking it's operating normally.


Thanks Joe! I went the blocking route because @ 87,700 miles and the EGR acting up, my VX really could use a new one if the EGR is to remain operable.

My experience is that EGR's degrade over time (internal spring tension fades...pintle starts sticking...etc.). When the spring starts weakening you get valve "flutter" when the valve is supposed to be closed and that's when the vehicle starts things like hesitation, bogginess, lower mpg...etc. I've had good luck in the past just blocking them off when they needed replacement (saving like $150) plus, so far they do no emissions testing where I live.

I've lived with a faulty EVAP system (also doesn't affect how vehicle runs...emissions related only) for about 2 years now and the check engine light comes on for that...goes back out after like 25 starts...comes back on when it fails that particular test again!

I'm getting much better gas mileage today although I believe it is a combination of things...nicer (warmer) weather, summer blend gas, EGR was not operating as it should (now blocked off it is essentially @ the very least "closed" when it supposed to be :p).

2nd day driving with EGR blocked and she feels like she got a tune-up!

Oh yeah...I've gotten stung twice with defective new PCV's..first was a Autozone popular brand starts with "D" and sounds french...lol...benefits of early alzheimers...& second one was a Purolator while in Moab. I noticed when the oil level dropped drastically between fill-ups & my breather cap (filter) was spitting/foaming oil out (normally sucks air in) due to crankcase pressure building up and venting out the wrong end!


P.S.----wasn't going to sleep today if I didn't use the "search" button and fill my alzheimer ridden skull with the name of that PCV sold @ Autozone....(and now it doesn't sound so french) survey say's:

DEUTSCH PCV VALVE for a 2000 ISUZU TRUCK VEHICROSS 4WD

Unit Price: $3.49
Part No.: PCV193
Weight: 0.05 lbs.
Availability: Online: Ships within 2 business days
Store: Normally Stocked

[Ldub]

On a final note...I swear my gas mileage today was better than normal as I usually can't get more than 40-50 and rarely 60 miles on the first quarter tank...today I've got 45 and its showing 1/8 tank consumed.

That sounds about right. My mileage is starting to come up too, as the cold weather subsides...almost identical to yours.

I'm gonna re-set the ECU before I head out Moab way, to see if I can pick up a few mpg.