Would you pay $2K for a projector HID headlight system?

[WyrreJ]

Anyone ever look into getting a custom-designed bi-level, projector HID system for their headlights?

I noticed that HIDS4less will design and build custom HID systems. I am looking for a HID stystem done right, not one of those H4 replacement bulbs that won't do high beams and who knows what kind of other quirks. Since they are just down the road in Pawtuckett, I am thinking about getting in contact with them about building a set for my VX.

But, I am curious both if anyone has talked to them or another light-shop for a similar project and what level of interest there is here for a group purchase. I have no idea what it would cost at this point, but I figure $2K is probably in the ballpark, maybe a bit on the high-side, and probably depends on how many orders they can amortize their development costs over.

[gruven]

I was on a big HID kick a short time ago and was looking at the Bellof or Catz systems available http://www.sigmaautomotive.com/lighting/main.html.

Since both of these H4 kits are HiLo, I am curious as to what they have to offer for the extra $. I personally would be more tempted to put $750 down on the Bellof's and put the other $1250 towards other mods...

Interested to see what you learn.

-gruven

[Joe_Black]

I really like the look of some of those custom jobs. The way our headlight housing is designed makes it an excellent platform for that type of customization. I've always liked the look of the projectors inside the streamlined housing, which gives you both high and low beam options. I would certainly be interested in seeing what these folks could do for our VXs.

[paultvx]

The Catz system is virtually identical to the Bellof which leads me to believe they share the same supplier. The difference between the two is themake of the ballasts. Bellof uses Philips while Catz has their own... not sure who makes it. I'm guessing Panasonic, but that's just a guess.

Bellof systems are considered to be the measuring stick in the industry. Very high quality stuff. I think the high cost is because of the reputation. As mentioned the bulbs in the Catz kit appears to be identical to the ones in the Bellof kit. If you look hard enough, you can find the Catz kit online for $450 and up. I'm sitting on a set... haven't gotten around to installing them because it's necessary to free up some space (airbox) for the ideal installation.

As for making custom head lights... This was to be a project I was hoping to tackle eventually when the financial picture gets better... but what the hell, I'll share. If you know how to mold plastic and have access to CAD/CAM equiptment, it is possible to mold a new inner housing that works with the stock clear lens (horn lights and all) to make a quad lamp projector system. Hella makes a set 75mm (I think that's what they are) projector lamps in high and low beams. These are the same ones used in the Saleen S7 supercar. Projector lamps are much better with HID conversions since the cutoffs are much sharper and controlled. Single beam HID conversions are also a lot cheaper. The quad beam look would be very nice I think. See www.rallylights.com about these projector lamps. There may even be an HID version for the low beam... I don't remember.

[TDAWG]

Hey WyrreJ,
I live here in pawtucket where that company seem to be bases out of if you want I can look into it for you. Since this is the 1st time I ever even heard of the company I 'll look into it and get back to you ASAP. I'll post up any findings.

[WyrreJ]

Thanks for the offer Tony. I haven't even had a chance to call them yet, too busy at the office during regular hours (and then some). If you could drop by and maybe let them take a look at your lights in person so they can get idea right away and then report back to us all, that would be very cool of you.

[TDAWG]

Hey Peeps,
I just got off the phone with the people from HIDS4Less and this is the prices they gave me. A stage 1 system is $499 and a stage 2 system is $699. If you have them install them then add a $100 for install. So I am off to go look at them up close and see if maybe we could get some kind of group discount. I'll keep you informed as soon as I get back with some info.

[TDAWG]

OK, I just got back and here is a pic of the system. They use all phillips products and comes from Germany. The only draw back I saw is that you lose your high beams. The stage 2 blub has that blue tint to it like the super white. Stage 2 blubs are way more brighter than the stage 1 blubs. When you think about it most of us have already installed extra driving lights or even off-road lgihts. so I don't think losing the high beams are that bad. After checking out the stage 2 lights I remember the commercial about the 2 bugs and the bug zapper when 1 looks at the other and says "DON"T LOOK INTO THE LIGHT" oops my bad. I did.
So I'll be getting them once I sweet talk the wife alittle. Ok alot. She thinks I aready spend too much on pampering it.

[Hotsauce]

OK, I think I may be the only one here with HID installed, so I'll put my 2 cents in here.

HID works soo well, that you don't need high beams, unless someone wants to bust chops on an inspection.

I do have hi/low finction though, its just that high is only marginally higher than low.

I have a system very similat to the last picture, except the mask is controled with a solenoid to give high or low pattern. I'd shoot some pics if it wasn't such a pain to remove it.

Light color: you want no more than 5000°K, any more and it starts getting blue. coatings of any color on the bulb will only reduce available light, even though the blue seems a little brighter, it really doesn't provide as much light in the spectrum that you need..

Do make sure that whatever you buy gives a really sharp flat low beam cutoff, not easy with our reflector pattern. I tried a few kits that threw tons of orange and yellow light above the cutoff line.

A sharp cutoff lets you raise the beam alignment without blinding other drivers.

John C.

[gruven]

Some subjects have been touched on that I have been wondering about...

From what I have been able to observe, low beams look adequate for my needs- but I am confused on the two types of HiLo offered. One type uses moving shield and the other a moving bulb. Of course with a moving bulb 3-4" (if I remember correctly) are what is needed behind the enclosure for the mechanism to move. Doubt we have that luxury.... Is one practice more preferable than the other?

The shield placement sure seems to be the key- is there anything to look for that might hint of a kits 'cutoff' or shield's ability- or is this learned through trial and error by trying different brands?

Also ran across something talking about European codes mandating an auto-leveling system. Something to keep you from blinding people when cresting a hill from what I gather. Is this a feature that needs to be looked for?

-gruven

[paultvx]

Originally posted by gruven
Some subjects have been touched on that I have been wondering about...

From what I have been able to observe, low beams look adequate for my needs- but I am confused on the two types of HiLo offered. One type uses moving shield and the other a moving bulb. Of course with a moving bulb 3-4" (if I remember correctly) are what is needed behind the enclosure for the mechanism to move. Doubt we have that luxury.... Is one practice more preferable than the other?

I have the moving bulb type (Catz)... even though I haven't had the chance to install them, I can tell you that there should be enough room behind the headlights to clear the longer bulb assembly. You might have to remove the intake elbow to make room on the driver side. I think with the moving shield type (HID Plus brand) one potential problem is that the bulb hood (the conical cap that covers the tip of the bulb) that comes with the HID kit may not be compatible with the existing hood in the stock housing.

I am not completely sure which is the better method. I just figured that since Bellof uses the moving bulb method, it must be the way to go.
From what I've read on this board and on vmag, low beam alone is sufficient in most cases since our headlight reflectors weren't designed with HID in mind so there's a lot of light flooding beyond the cutoffs. This is why HID can appear to have more glare to other drivers (screw them... better they are made more aware of the road than day dreaming in la-la-land and causing accidents).

The shield placement sure seems to be the key- is there anything to look for that might hint of a kits 'cutoff' or shield's ability- or is this learned through trial and error by trying different brands?

I don't think there is a way to know until you actually try it. There are too many variables involved with retrofit kits. That's why the NHTSA has been looking into the matter in hopes of putting regulations in place. Our tax dollars at work... pay someone to tell us what we can't do with our money.
Anyway, buying HID kits is pretty risky. There are lots of kits out there with vast differences in pricing, and quality. There are even kits out there that claim to have Philips components but are really unauthorized substandard copies. You really have to be careful of who and where you buy it from.

Also ran across something talking about European codes mandating an auto-leveling system. Something to keep you from blinding people when cresting a hill from what I gather. Is this a feature that needs to be looked for?

Not only do they mandate auto-leveling... they also call for headlamp washer jets. Dust and grime on the headlight lens can disperse light and increase glare. The auto-leveling feature is not available with retrofit kits. They are only available if.... say you have an Audi A4 and you swap the US spec headlights for European spec HID headlights (not just bulb and ballast... the real McCoy).

Retrofits are generally brighter than Halogen, but still not like the real deal... just half way there. Which is why I mentioned my idea of designing a new set of headlights based on the factory units... one that would use 4 round Hella projectors (same ones used on the Saleen S7). Development would cost a lot of $ though.

[WyrreJ]

Is that 4 hellas per assembly, or just 2 per assembly and two assemblies per car? I am very interested in the real mccoy and will call hids4less about it when I get a chance.

[paultvx]

That's two lamps per headlight. Dedicated low and high beams.

I was wrong before... they're 90mm in diameter. The high beam would remain halogen... HIDs are better suited to low beam use and the projectors are perfect for retrofitting since the cutoff is much sharper than reflector.

The image is from www.rallylights.com. Good prices and great service. I've bought stuff from them for almost 6 years now.



And as used in the Saleen S7, picture from Roadandtrack.com

[Dallas4u]

Yup, love rallylights! I have been purchasing bulbs and fogs (My Hella 500's came from them) for years as well. I was purchasing the Hella Optilux H4 bulbs from them a while back before they stopped selling (manufacturing?) them. Good service and prices.

Paul, it would definitely be interesting if you could perform some magic and create a new headlight assembly for HID lamps. That would be too sweet!

[Navigator]

I've given the ide a lot of thought and have discussed it with a few friends and have come to the conclusion I can't afford that much DOH :homer: