R1 Concepts Brakes and Rotors

[snowtrooper1966]

Well, you could hang about the "good sized bump" for a week (but only if there are lots of "gapers"-tourists that don't know the area, and left on road courtesy @ home-), activate your supercharger and stress your brakes as much as possible, to similate daily mountain resort driving
Best,

[Kenny]

Dub, my $0.02: Go with the nickel plated set - saves a bit of painting to keep corrosion down - assuming the plating is decent quality and lasts...

They'll look cool with your 20" rapper rims.

Since we're still sort of on the topic of my ebay shopping excursion...

These Magnum, drilled only rotors have been enticing me for a while now...
$178.00 for all four, to my door is VERRY tempting...




http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Magnu...QQcmdZViewItem



Does anyone have any experience with/feedback on this vendor.
Some of his feedback comments are NOT good, but still almost 97%.

[Ldub]

Dub, my $0.02: Go with the nickel plated set - saves a bit of painting to keep corrosion down - assuming the plating is decent quality and lasts...

They'll look cool with your 20" rapper rims.

Dems gangsta rims Dog.........

I was thinking of plated or silver painted, still not sure I'll even get them.

[Gussie2000]

That's one opinion on drilled only vs drilled/slotted...
For another, read further down in the link I posted...

Hey buddy if you decide to install drilled, slotted rotors go for the R1 concepts.

They are better & their customer services is excelent,you can pay over the phone,ask questions, etc.

I purchased R1 concepts rotors & so far the have hold up very good.
The pads you shall go in person & get them at auto store.Just get the very best you can afford to.

[Ldub]

since I already have a new set of OEM pads in inventory...

The pads you shall go in person & get them at auto store.Just get the very best you can afford to.

...

[taylorRichie]

Are the R1s a good alternative to Stock Rotors, Or are they an improvement. With my new Wheels/Tires I'm in need of an upgrade... My brakes were replaced about 5K ago (previous owner) Both Rotors and Pads (pads are a ceramic dust free I believe) And Rotors I'm fairly certain are OE. (I'll have to check the receipts).

Is there any "big brake" kit that's compatible with our vehicles? Are our stock calipers plenty good?

Just tryin' to be safe here

[Ldub]

Are the R1s a good alternative to Stock Rotors, Or are they an improvement. With my new Wheels/Tires I'm in need of an upgrade... My brakes were replaced about 5K ago (previous owner) Both Rotors and Pads (pads are a ceramic dust free I believe) And Rotors I'm fairly certain are OE. (I'll have to check the receipts).

Is there any "big brake" kit that's compatible with our vehicles? Are our stock calipers plenty good?

Just tryin' to be safe here

About the biggest bang for your buck is the stainless steel brake lines.

I've never seen "big brake" or multi piston calipers offered for our application.

[MSHardeman]

Dub,

I know that they are a little more expensive than the R1 rotors, but I have been extremely happy with my drilled and slotted SP Performance rotors. They grab like a son-of-a-wench and look great doing it. The holes have a radiused edge so they won't wear out the brake pads too fast and the coating that they came with still looks good so far (no rust).

The guy I ordered from was in Georgia and called me on a Saturday after I had bought the rotors to make sure that they where exactly what I was looking for. Nice guy.

That's my two cents.

[Ldub]

Dub,

I know that they are a little more expensive than the R1 rotors, but I have been extremely happy with my drilled and slotted SP Performance rotors. They grab like a son-of-a-wench and look great doing it. The holes have a radiused edge so they won't wear out the brake pads too fast and the coating that they came with still looks good so far (no rust).

The guy I ordered from was in Georgia and called me on a Saturday after I had bought the rotors to make sure that they where exactly what I was looking for. Nice guy.

That's my two cents.

Thanks Mark,

I had forgotten about the SP rotors, I'll be sure to give them a look before making any final decision. IIRC, they had the option of drilled only.

[Ldub]

Mark,

Just got an email quote from SP...$420.00.
More than twice the cost of the Magnums & they won't do drilled only.
I'm not sure if that price includes shipping, but they want another $70.00 for the nickel plating on all four.

I'm sure their quality is higher, but man...I don't think I can afford that much quality.

[MSHardeman]

Totally understandable. I don't know if their quality is twice that of the R1 rotors. I liked the look of them, and Uncle Sam had just paid me back for over paying him, so that was how I was able to afford them when I got them. I haven't heard anything bad about the R1 rotors so I would go with them; plus you can get them in fashionable party colors.

I'm surprised that SP doesn't do just drilled rotors. I wonder why? They DO do (heh, dodo) a diamond impression type thing on their rotors that they claim keeps the rotors stronger than drilled rotors and it's kind of a unique look.

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

http://store.r1concepts.com/Items/It...20Brake%20Pads

http://store.r1concepts.com/Items/It...20Brake%20Pads

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/sho...ighlight=Axxis

I just installed a full set of the Frozen Rotors on the IronMan along with Axxis Ultimate pads and am very satisfied with the results. The rotors were obtained from TireRack and are the same fitment as Trooper/Rodeo.

I chose the Axxis pads based on what a lot of the Subie crowd was running at the rallycross events and rallysprints, plus there are a couple of VX'ers who have had great results with them.

I'm running R1 Concepts with PBR/AXXIS Ultimate Pads with Independent 4X4 S.S. brake lines and flushed the braking system before refilling with Valvoline Synthetic dot 3 & 4 brake fluid (still glycol based).

I spiked the brakes at about 50mph after they were broke in and it stopped on a dime & gave me 9 cents of change back! I just hope it stays that way!

I did alot of reading on the internet about drilled, slotted rotors to understand it myself. As mentioned in earlier posts....cross-drilled rotors help to vent/shed heat away. Slotted rotors help to "scrape" or "freshen" the pad surface to keep your pads at optimum levels of performance. Drilled & Slotted rotors supposedly offer both features in one package.

Reading this I would expect more amounts of brake dust from slotted rotors as they are scraping the pads. I have noticed more brake dust on my wheels but simply clean them periodically with wheel cleaner when washing the VX.

[twistedsymphony]

TR... I'm also looking for improved calipers... I'm wondering if the brake mounts are the same as the Trooper..

When I test drove my VX the brakes were VERY squishy, the pedal was nearly to the floor before they started to grip and the feedback was horrible, they worked through, and I could even slam them hard enough for the ABS to kick in.

As part of the purchase agreement he replaced the rear rotors and pads, and greased the sliders on the front calipers... the results where much improved braking feedback. Still not as good as it could be though.

Under hard braking I can feel the front end "pulse" a bit which I'm assuming is a result of carbon build up on the rotor, or maybe some slight warping.

The calipers look horrible too they're all rusty and dirty...

If there is one thing I've learned about brakes it's that you can fit pretty much any caliper to any car so long as the mounting points are the same or you're willing to make an adapter. I know a lot of people in the 240 crowd have started adapting the 4 piston STi Brembos to their cars, all it requires is a little hunk of metal with some holes in it to adapt the STi mounting pattern to the Nissan mounting pattern. I've personally got a set of 4 piston 300ZX calipers on my car... Nissan used the same bolt pattern so they fit right up, and make an awesome and cheap upgrade.

I think it would be worth looking to see if there are direct fit replacement calipers for the VX from another vehicle... a good place to start might be looking at what trooper people have done... I'm definitly going to look into SS braided lines, and at least new rotors and pad... if the calipers aren't too bad and there are no good direct replacement options I'll probably have them sand blasted, painted and rebuilt.


As for the best rotors to use
here are some basic concepts about the different features of brake rotors (I seem to be writing a lot of these lately )
-rotors with no slots or holes will have the best stopping performance because stopping performance is all about the surface area of the pad in contact with the rotor... holes and slots reduce that contact area.

-drilled rotors add holes that act as gas expansion chambers, depending on the pad material (typically only older organic based racing pads) the friction on the pad will cause it to releases gasses under lots of hard braking a thin layer of gas between the pad and rotor will obviously reduce braking performance... that is why holes have been provided so the gas has some place to escape to since the reduction of the gas layer more than makes up for the loss of contact area in racing applications. This is not something you'd have a problem with in normal street driving, nor with OEM or similar pads.

-slotted rotors the idea of a slotted rotor is that it wipes the pad clean to ensure that the contact area of the pad is even. The reason a pad might not be even is once again the result of hard braking in racing applications. In a race environment the brakes are going from nothing to full clamp back to nothing back to full clamp and the constant cycling of heating and cooling can cause unevenness on the pad surface. The slots actually remove a thin layer of the brake pad to "clean" them. As a result you'll actually dramatically reduce the lifespan of the pad since you're removing a substantial amount more of the pad material with each pass of a slot. Not an issue in racing where the pads get replaced every race, but for street driving meh. If you track your car on the weekends or do something where you're doing a lot of heavy braking then some rotors with a light amount of slotting might be good (maybe 3-4 slots across the entire rotor). Leave the crazy slotting to the race cars.

-Vented Rotors are essentially rotors with a hollow center. The rotor looks like 2 plates with spokes between the two to add structure. These rotors are really good no matter what your application. They wick away heat from the rotor very well which improves braking performance no matter what your application.

--Picking the Right Rotor--
if you're buying drilled/slotted rotors you can calculate the reduction in clamping force based on how many holes and slots are available, knowing the area of the pad simply subtract the area of each hole and slot that is over the pad at any given time (if the rotor is designed properly then the number of slots and holes under the pad should be constant at all times).

--Dangers of buying cheap drilled/slotted rotors--
Depending on the process used to manufacture the rotors having holes in the rotors could go from being something unnecessary to something quite dangerous. Higher quality name brands such as Brembo actually build the holes and slots in the original cast, these are, of course, cleaned up in the final machining, cheaper brands build a plain rotor and drill the holes and mill the slots after the fact... the problem with the latter is that the drilling/milling process causes uneven heat stress at certain spots in the rotor, at a microscopic level the rotor is no long even and it can lead to cracking of the rotor, around the holes and slots... which is never a good thing.

In short:
-for street driving get vented rotors with no holes or slots for the best performance
-for light track or off road use consider a rotor with minimal slots
-if you're building a race only rig... consult your brake tech
-If you're going to buy drilled/slotted rotors for looks, make sure they're manufactured properly less you risk more than just the rotor braking.

a friend of mine wrote up a good overall brake primer that's worth reading if you're interested in more details: http://forums.240sxone.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=89
It has a few 240sx specific references but it's mostly generic brake info, covers pads, calipers, lines, fluid, and bias as well.

[nfpgasmask]

Under hard braking I can feel the front end "pulse" a bit which I'm assuming is a result of carbon build up on the rotor, or maybe some slight warping.

Well, just wait until your ABS craps out like the rest of us and then you won't have to worry about any pulsing any more!

--Dangers of buying cheap drilled/slotted rotors--
Depending on the process used to manufacture the rotors having holes in the rotors could go from being something unnecessary to something quite dangerous. Higher quality name brands such as Brembo actually build the holes and slots in the original cast, these are, of course, cleaned up in the final machining, cheaper brands build a plain rotor and drill the holes and mill the slots after the fact... the problem with the latter is that the drilling/milling process causes uneven heat stress at certain spots in the rotor, at a microscopic level the rotor is no long even and it can lead to cracking of the rotor, around the holes and slots... which is never a good thing.

So what you are saying is that my cheap R1Concepts rotors are probably dangerous? SWEET!

Bart

[twistedsymphony]