Manual Locking Hubs

[Solitude]

I believe that even a 2 mpg gain on a standard US TOD would be worth the cost. I am still curious if there are down sides besides lack of AWD get up and go. I don't think the back lash would be an issue since there is no forward or back up pressure on the freewheelin front parts. --at least thats how my head sorts out what I have read so far..

The only time I see more then standard power applied to the front tires on the display on the dash is when I FLOOR the throttle.. and I rarely do that any more.. There is enough OOMPH in the regular driving to avoid situations I get Myself into on the road..

OffRoading I would think that you would engage the hubs even when you thought about going that direction since the system is designed to run that way anyways.

I really wasnt looking to install a new TOD 2HI/4HI/4LO. Just add the hubs

Thank you for the replys so far.. we have been keeping on track fairly well..

Thanks GM for your input.. (I never really thought about the JDM side of this issue and your insight has benefited this thread immensley.

So far I have learned that the hubs will help out if I lost CV.. and that there is a cost for isolating the fronts out of the system.. Albeit good or bad..

I reread this thread often as I can to see if I missed anything..

Thank you again (so far) for the time you take to enlighten Me.

Peace
Jeff

[Solitude]

well i have a 2wd-4wd swtich, the gain i get on MPG is only 1 extra Mile, not to much, power i can't tell. But my main reason why i have the TOD of all the time unless offroading is cuz sence i got the lift it makes this weird noise, and many here have had it or have it when you go higher then 50mph, but when i have the TOD off the noise goes away. I don't know if there is a bigger problem here then i think, but thats what i do.

Coastie.. If you are still reading this.. and your 2WD-4WD switch really works..
I think you would be a prime candidate for manual hubs..

I am not sure what the weird noise you have is.. but would like to hear what it WAS if you ever have it diagnosed and fixed

Jeff

[Ldub]

I really wasnt looking to install a new TOD 2HI/4HI/4LO. Just add the hubs

Thank you for the replys so far.. we have been keeping on track fairly well..


Peace
Jeff

Agreed, nobody has mentioned a dog, cat, rat, fish, turtle, aardvark, wombat, snake or lizard...yet.

But the idea of having the Trooper TOD system, with selectable hubs, has been rollin' around in my noodle for a while now.
The increase in mileage would be a huge plus, as would the diminished wear & tear on the CVs, CV boots etc.

[JHarris1385]

A 2mpg increase would be GREAT, that would put me right at about 20 mpg. Which is crazy given I am lifted and a year ago was getting near 11mpg.

[BigSwede]

From what most 98+ Trooper guys have said, they get about 1 mpg additional after conversion to hubs. Of course this is a rough number, 2 mpg isn't out of the realm of possibility...and a VX is a little more aerodynamic than a Trooper , might be able to take advantage better.

[kpaske]

Here's some food for thought... let's say you do get a 2 MPG increase by switching to manual hubs, and you normally average about 16 MPG with your VX, and you drive 10,000 miles per year, and gas prices average $4.25 per gallon..... that's a savings of about $295 in just one year (so the hubs pay for themselves in about 4 months).

I just got mine installed a couple of weekends ago and personally I really like them. The handling really isn't much different and the acceleration feels a little less restricted, so if I get a 2 MPG savings to boot, I have no complaints.

[nater]

Guys, I am fairly certain that the TOD system has one pin grounded for TOD on, and another for true 4wd. It is my understanding that this second pin is empty on the Trooper and VX and that the first one is switched on the Trooper, but hard wired on the VX. If we figure out what pin it is, we can put Trooper switches in the VXs, add the manual hubs, and you're done. The whole project would likely be under $100 from a junkyard.

I've got the wiring diagram for the Trooper. Anybody got a wiring diagram for the VX's TOD module? FYI, it is likely safe to short each of the empty pins on the TOD module to ground as long as you have a handful of fuses. Frankly, good automotive engineers know that shorting to ground should be tolerated on all pins as a temporary condition. That is to say that once the short is removed, the module should still function normally, rather than get fried. Of course, there's some risk that the module wasn't designed properly as well. Perhaps the next VX to get totaled could have this experiment run by the owner to find the full 4wd pin (all lights on the indicator should light up).

Nate

[BigSwede]

AFAIK the mpg savings on a Trooper comes from not having the drag of the front drivetrain turning all the time...so I'm not sure you are going to see much if any improvement from manual hubs on a VX unless you come up with a way for 2WD on your t-case...

[Daver]

I've had manual locking hubs on mine for several years now. Combined with a TOD disconnect switch, it's great.

The VX is noticeably quicker in RWD only, and a lot more fun as well. Noticeably better mpg too, when not observing the "noticeably quicker" bit. The only "AWD get up and go" I've ever noticed is having to stand on the brakes at a stoplight to counter the AWD trying to drag me into the intersection. Can't say as I miss that at all...

The point of reversing to unlock hubs is to unload the torque from the hub gear's mating surface with the axle so the hub is free to move away from the axle and unlock. Think of hubs as just another gear engagement that binds up after miles and miles of being pushed by the axle to move the wheels. Reversing to unlock applies equally to both auto-locking and manual locking hubs.

Stock, the VX comes with a flange. It's a solid metal gear that connects the axle full-time. It's not something that can be unlocked without being modified or replaced.

-Daver

[taylorRichie]

Thanks for the info...

Once I get the TOD controller done and installed I will also install Manual hubs. I'm quite certain my wheel centercaps will even accommodate them without removal which is cool.

[VehiGAZ]

Okie-doke... here's a nebulous but maybe encouraging idea...

Up until now, my primary interest in mods to the ToD system has been to achieve a true 4WD-high mode (50%-50% lockup in high range) for short-of-treacherous winter driving. But with the current price of gas and the potential for a substantial improvement in mileage if the front axle could be uncoupled at the transfer case and installation of unlocking hubs, my interest in modding the ToD is expanding...

So - earlier this year, I had a problem with my ToD system - some of the wires running along the underside of the VX had come loose and were resting on the cat convertor. This naturally melted their insulation and shorted them out. The short blew out the ToD fuse, and I got the "check" light on the ToD display. At that point, I think the VX was running in rear-wheel-only (2WD-high) mode because it seemed that only the rears were working on our snow-covered ski house driveway in VT (I was able to engage 4WD-low to get full lock-up, even with the ToD off). Of course, this observation would have to be verified by putting the VX on jack stands, pulling the ToD fuse, and putting it in gear to see if the fronts turn at all when the ToD is de-powered.

But if it's true, here's the potential mod to get just true 2WD-high mode: a simply switch in the wire that supplies power to the ToD (or it's ground - automotive electricians, please advise) providing the necessary decoupling, if you don't mind a "check" light on the ToD display (I sure wouldn't!).

If we could do that with a selectable torque split which includes full-decoupling, that would of course be the best solution.

[taylorRichie]

What I'm working on with my brother is a module where you Dial your split.

Anywhere from 0-100% to the front, This isn't a ratio, it's available power. So 100% = 50/50 split.


The issues with running at 0 to the front is the clutch that disengages the front wheels. With TOD if there is any slip in the rear the clutch is disengaged so the power can flow to the front. If you have something that prevents that, the clutch is going to be working REALLY hard, anytime you're experiencing slip in the rear. This is the main difference between our TOD and our JDM friends. They can just mechanically disconnect the front. We can't.

My understanding is that if we control the front wheels to zero, and then unlock our hubs, then the clutch won't have to work as hard because it won't have to fight the rotational mass of the wheels.

If you look for the TOD controller thread, MBEACH has a write up (I posted it one of the last posts) on how our transfer case works.

[VehiGAZ]

Then maybe include a ToD kill switch along with the controller to disengage the front axle, and the clutch won't be trying to do anything at all.

[CrnCnn]

I really didnt read all the replies to this so forgive me if I repeat a question or something that has already been stated throuhout.

So I think I would like to get manual hubs. Mostly because right now I have a bum CV and would like to put it back in for the winter in case I need 4wheel.

Now if I put on the hubs the axles will continue to turn right? They will not be under regular stress because of the hubs disengaged. Correct?

If I install the TOD selector switch then they will not turn at all?

So if I do both then things maybe better when wear is concerned.

Any thoughts????

[kodiak]

I have manuals on mine. The CV will still spin; they just won’t turn the wheels. If you can setup a good TOD selector switch let us know. The JDM VXs can go into 2 wheel only, but no one has reverse engineered it and posted it on the site yet. The Axiom TOD has a nice setup for that, but that hasn’t been reverse engineered ether.