Every mile costs/ ideas to better the milage

[Tone]

Ya'll continue to slay me! How many threads are going to be created on this pipe dream with all sorts of gonna do this and gonna do that and a whole lot of nothing being done because it can't? The vehicle has been out for over 11yrs and those who got it first would have corrected this by now. It will never win any MPG awards without changing the facts.

Fact: It's heavy @ 3955 pounds
Fact: It's underpowered for that weight @ 215 HP
It's power to weight ratio = 0.0543615676359 (larger, whole numbers are better for efficiency)
AND it's four wheel drive (do away with the 4WD and it becomes very difficult to control, even with the stock engine)

So, aside from running full air pressure in the tires, flowing more air in and out of the engine (w/o over doing it - no 3"+ pipes), driving properly, and correcting your mistaken calculations for non-oem tire sizes, it's gonna be what it is.

You bought the wrong vehicle for MPG and performance w/ one of a kind styling. If you spend $4500 to put in a bigger and more efficient motor AND drivetrain, it 'll take you four+ YEARS to realize the savings IF you can gain even a 10mpg increase doing so.

And since most of the chatter is from those who bought into this vehicle at WELL below sticker unlike the rest of us, I don't see ANY ONE putting 50%+ of their purchase price BACK into an 8+ yr old high mileage vehicle. But then again they sell a LOT of Tornados and Fuel Magnets.....

You're on the planet for a finite time: either enjoy what you drive or drive a Prius and STFU! "The real question is, when you turn your car on, does it return the favor?" Or it just a generic device to get you from point A to B?

[Solitude]

AMEN.. well said

[circmand]

Frankly if it hadnt been along time member I would have said this guy was full of it but since it was I asked for proof. If the people who run this site were inclined to eliminate these types of BS posts I would not have a problem. Salute to Tone for calling out this BS artist

[Solitude]

I did see a kit like that on ebay for just over a grand.. someone musta hit the buy it now button

[MoonRaker]

Hmm, interesting. I wounder what they found fraudulent about his work. If it was a fraud why did NASA hire him? Why did he sign a defense contract a week before he died?
Ok heres some more food for thought. Water is a compound of the elements oxygen and hydrogen. H2O, how do you split a compound, you excite the elements enough to split with somthing like electricty. Check this out, its guys taking it to the next level.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9NvboKL43Q

Still a critic, hears another test, I thought at first it was a fuel like alcahol but I notice water running down the plug and that woulda burst the whole place into flames.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs-Uk511S_I&NR=1

So I see now why he ended up in court for fraud, he mostlikly had a pissed off investor who got a couple of scientests to say its impossible. Its funny what scientists say is impossible, like atomic explosions before the first atom bomb was set off. If you get the rite jurry you can be convicted of anything or nuthing, especialy if they belive the other guy. Just ask OJ.

[MoonRaker]

Im not here trying to sell you guys anything, im just informing you of what im working on at the moment and what ive learned. I just thought you might have some intrest. Im the kinda of person that dosnt belive until I see it. Yeh, I had a pipe dream of running Baja and it was just that, not enough support and a bad econamy effects everyone. Im just looking at options to better the planet and us buy alternatives to fossil fuel. Im a chill guy so I dont like to argue, just kick back and see what happens, you never now, you might be surprised.

[Ldub]

Here's an article on the topic that may be of interest to those involved in this discussion...

http://www.sema.org/main/semaorghome...82708&id=59703

[MoonRaker]

What kind of volume would you guys think youd need to totaly run your car on hydrogen with a preasure system. Ive seen some systems that have a 10,000 psi holding tank that gets on average of 300 miles to a fill but thats on a compact. Id say the tank looks like a 10 gallon. Its highway leagal and impact safe with a switch that shuts the tank off, probly hooks up to the same system as the airbags. The only drawback of burning hydrogen is water after burn and whats needed to be done to purge the engine before shutdown. With what im using I just shut the hydrogen off for a minute. Im thinking of trying a system like that on my mazda after it gets out of the body shop. I figure after the initial cost alls you need to do is plug it in when you get home and not go more then the gas range. Check these out

http://www.qtww.com/products/afsch/injectors.php

[circmand]

I would think just like gas hydrogen mpg or whatever they call would be different based on hte vehicle as well. I have been checking my miles per tank and frankly I am getting 300+/- with regular gas per tank. This is what the starter of this post stated he was getting after he installed the equipment. I wonder if this is a case of paying more attention to driving habits and not hydrogen?

[Ascinder]

All I know is that everyone I've talked to that has had a device similar to this installed has reported positive results that even taken conservatively show promise. Bottom line is that internal combustion engines are so far from efficient it's ridiculous. I think instead of immediately storming this thread with naysayer posts, how about something constructive and supported. Yes this vehicle does tip two tons on the scales, but when a 550 HP V-8 beats us in mileage, it means our engine just aint doing something right. Everyone I mention our mileage to seems to think it doesn't sound right. So if injecting hydrogen and oxygen into the air charge makes for more complete and even combustion, then that makes sense to me. Look at nitrous oxide. It sounds unreasonable that throwing some "special gas" in the air charge could increase horsepower 50-150%, but it does. It's really not that unrealistic to say that changing what the engine breathes changes how well it works. How well does your metabolism work when you eat junk food vs. eat healthy-same with engines folks.

[MoonRaker]

Well, today I was looking for volume buy filling a 10 gallon tank. It seems im looking at 1 psi every 10 minutes, give or take. Keep in mind its only 1 hydrogen generator pulling 2 amps at 12 volts. Ive also mixed in a little bakingsoda to give a little extra electrolight to the distilled water. The volume output isnt as high as id like, my goal is 1 psi a minute on a max of 10 amps for a 10 gallon container. If I can get it even better thats great. Any ideas??? It seems that surface area of stainless is a key also. I tryed another test to see what effects the hydrogen has on other gases buy placing a propane torch over a open cell [no preassure or enclosier] and it deffinatly makes the gas burn faster. It would cut the lenth of flame in half showing a quiker burn.

[MoonRaker]

Ive never seen more then 260 miles out of a tank without the hydrogen so I guess you drive like granny lol.

[nfpgasmask]

My whole thing is this:

The VX is a gas guzzler. That is what it is. Like Tone said, if you want a fuel efficient vehicle, you should sell your VX and get something else. I have toyed with the idea of buying another vehicle that gets better mileage, keeping the VX for weekends, wheeling, camping, etc. But then I have another vehicle to insure and maintain, and another car payment. So I might as well just save that money and buy gas for my VX and try to baby it as much as I can. Investing a boat load of money to save money on gas is counter-productive.

Now, Moonraker, if you are saying only an inexpensive mod can save you all this money on gas, maybe there is something, but wouldn't everyone be doing it?? If there is REALLY something to this, why aren't shops across America equipping vehicles with this simple "fix" for poor efficiency? I'm not saying the whole process is a load of crap, but I do not understand why everyone wouldn't do it if it was a simple and worked as good as you say.

Also, if you ARE indeed saving money on gas, maybe you could kick in $20 of that extra cash you should now have so you can upload some photos!

Bart

[Techy-D]

Hey MoonRaker, I think that's cool!

I love to tinker with ideas and try to gain an understand why things do or don't work. Sounds like that's what you are going for. I rarely find the time for those little pet projects, so I applaud your effort and descriptions of anything you learn about this subject.
My guess is that you won't learn or achieve exactly what you intended, but as many have in the past you will learn something else that surprizes you even more! (and have a blast doing it)

It looks like this device isn't seperating the Hydrogen from the Oxygen, so it's a new concept to me. If burning it as you make it, this should be fine. If storing it, you would want to just store the Hydrogen, cuz theres lots of Oxygen to be had from the air as you need it.

Also, I'm not sure that you can't upload photos if not a member. I think you are just limited in storage space???

Keep working on your dreams, stick with the facts, share with those who are interested, oh and most importantly be SAFE.

My 2.499999999 cents worth

[MoonRaker]

My whole thing is this:

The VX is a gas guzzler. That is what it is. Like Tone said, if you want a fuel efficient vehicle, you should sell your VX and get something else. I have toyed with the idea of buying another vehicle that gets better mileage, keeping the VX for weekends, wheeling, camping, etc. But then I have another vehicle to insure and maintain, and another car payment. So I might as well just save that money and buy gas for my VX and try to baby it as much as I can. Investing a boat load of money to save money on gas is counter-productive.

Now, Moonraker, if you are saying only an inexpensive mod can save you all this money on gas, maybe there is something, but wouldn't everyone be doing it?? If there is REALLY something to this, why aren't shops across America equipping vehicles with this simple "fix" for poor efficiency? I'm not saying the whole process is a load of crap, but I do not understand why everyone wouldn't do it if it was a simple and worked as good as you say.

Also, if you ARE indeed saving money on gas, maybe you could kick in $20 of that extra cash you should now have so you can upload some photos!

Bart

That sounds kinda like the last used car salesman I spoke to when I bought my VX. Ive sent out a few pics of the model Ive built. They can be posted buy others but the other work is classified info. Ill drop the ball soon enough. $20 bucks buys almost 4.5 gallons of gas and 20 gallons of water.