Dead Battery

[kpaske]

OK, I've been doing a bit of work on my VX and suddenly, my battery doesn't seem to be holding a charge - since yesterday it's been having trouble starting, and this morning I needed to jump start it. The only thing I've done with the wiring is replace the battery terminals, and the connection seems fairly secure (and I jumped it with the cables clamped to the terminals and it fired right up). I had the radio on for a little while the other day, but it didn't have any trouble starting up immediately afterwards. I believe I replaced the battery about two years ago. Is this a normal lifespan for a battery? Is it just coincidence that it died after I installed the new terminals?

[Moncha]

Did you use the clamp on style terminals? Why did you replace them in the first place?

With clamp on styles, the copper tends to oxidize and then you gradually loose electrical contact. Pre-made or solder on type are the best. You can have a good auto electrical shop do this, it should be reasonable in price and will help prevent problems in the future.

Another VERY common failure in a battery is a shorted cell.. As the lead reacts to the acid, particulate falls to the bottom of the cell within the battery and causes a short between the plates.

One other is a detached cell. When the battery is subjected to vibration it causes the the plates within the battery to separate.

The tricky part of these failures is when most people test the battery it will show a 12v output just fine. The secret to testing a battery is to test it under load, you will see the voltage and amperage drop off dramatically. With the above failures the battery will go from a 12v out put to a 9-10v output and have very low amperage depending on the battery make up. This usually will not start a newer vehicle but will look like the battery is fine. Only because when the load is taken off (ie. the starter), the battery will go back to a 12v low amperage state and act just fine.

We used to see a lot of people that would be wanting to replace their alternator because they had the battery tested (Usually by the "Chain" parts stores) but, not under load and they would be advised that the battery was just fine and it was the alternator that needed replaced... Not!

I guess the moral to this drivel is.. Make sure that you have the battery tested UNDER LOAD.

Not that this has much to help with your problem kpaske, but thought it somewhat educational.

[andy454]

You may want to check the system for a voltage drain. Start the vehicle and let idle for a few minutes. Turn it off and hook a jumper wire from the neg terminal to the terminal end on the cable (this will keep all systems alive when you remove the cable). Disconnect the cable form the battery and attach an amp meter inline to the battery. Remove the jumper and monitor the amps. 30ma is a good number. If you see like 1 amp there is something causing a drain. You can begin to pull fuses until the drain is gone. Be careful not to start the vehicle or turn on the head lights as this will damage your meter. Just something to try if all else fails.

[kpaske]

Moncha - Thanks for all the info. It was indeed educational . I changed the terminals because I'm working on a high-end audio install and needed to upgrade them to accomodate a 1/0 ga power wire. I haven't installed any additional wires yet though - just the 4 and 8 ga factory installed wires.

SPAZZ - I might look into an Optima. I think they're a bit expensive, but it might be worth it for the audio system I'm installing.

andy454 - If my battery doesn't turn out to be failing, that will be my next step. I'm not sure why you suggest running the jumper though - can't I just pull the negative clamp off and run the meter between the clamp and the battery terminal?

[Joe_Black]

You can't go wrong with an Optima! No more corroded terminals, no fluid checks, mounts in any position. Awesome batteries! I've got a yellow-top in the VX and just got a red-top to replace the failed OEM battery in my fiancee's Trooper. Love 'em, love 'em, love 'em!!!

[psychos2]

we have a battery tester at work that tests cold cranking amps, voltage and bad cells.it works great. shawn

[AlaskaVX]

Originally posted by Joe_Black
You can't go wrong with an Optima! No more corroded terminals, no fluid checks,

No more jumping freinds, or recieve a jump yourself! (the reason I haven't got one)

[kpaske]

Well, I wound up purchasing an Optima Blue Top today (but not the deep cycle one, just the regular 800 CCA blue top). It certainly fixed the problem I was having.

AlaskaVX - Why can't you jump start with an Optima?

[andy454]

Kpaske
The reason for the jumper is to keep all computer systems and systems that run off of internal timers from turning off. Once you pull the cable you can't start the vehicle to turn them back on. GM has a handy little tool that connects inline to the cable and post. It has a knob that you can turn once the meter is installed. A jumper wire works just as well. Hope that helps.

[AlaskaVX]

I have been told that since they are a more powerful battery that they will fry the other battery that is not as powerful. I was told this by a Jeep buddy that I like to mob with. I believe him, but I am not 100% sure.

[Tone]

Blue top is a Marine battery and comes in Deep Cycle and normal starting - not sure what the benefit is of using it in a vehicle. I really like the red top and the extra set of side terminals are great to easily connect add ons such as alarm, lights, and other misc items. I replaced my stock battery with an Optima as soon as I got it and the stock battery still lives in my garage for a booster / tester battery over 4yrs later. Optima (or other larger CCA battery) turns the VX over a lot quicker and makes for easier starts IMHO not to mention allowing more accessories to be used before running out of juice. Red Tops have double the warranty of the other Optimas.

Jump starting is not an issue with this or any 12 battery. I have jumped and been jumped (left DVD on too long) and nary a problem.

[AlaskaVX]

Thanks for the info Tone, I think I might need that red top now with the SC, since it now takes a couple seconds to start, maybe with the high cranking battery it will start right up. How much do these batteries run? $120?

[Joe_Black]

If you've got a buddy who's an Interstate retailer they might be able to get you a deal. My yellow-top was purchased that way for about $110, normally around $170. The red-top we just got for the Trooper was $140 at AutoZone since we needed it and couldn't wait. I've seen some good pricing online as well but you've got to figure in shipping.

These things are great for jumping others as we found out at the last meet where three VX's lost their alternators. -x-'s red-top pretty much kept VX1 alive with several jumps to the parts store. I originally got my yellow to be used in my Trooper RS for lighting, winch and audio before moving it to the VX. In my Merkur I used a red-top in an interior relocation (for weight distribution) since it can't spill or leak. Still used a battery box for cosmetic reasons.

[TucsonVX]

My 2001 V-Cross had been in the garage for 10 days while I was on vaction. When I tried to start it the starter motor would not even click. I charged the battery up, and then it started and ran fine, the next day I did not use the VX. The following day the car would not start off the Battery, Now my VX was bought in Oct of 2001, so less than 2 years it's bad. The shop said it was typical for a factory battery to last 2 or 3 years, This must have something to do with taking VX's offroad. I have had other cars that got 5 to 6 years on the factory battery. So Off road my cause the symptoms that Moncha talked about.

[johnnyapollo]

MY stock battery died yesterday... 3 years and 33k miles. One of the cells went bad. Went to Costco and bought a Red Top Optima for $99 (no exchange). If you have access to one, that seems to be the place to buy them. I also priced them at Advance Auto Supply at $110 with exchange.

Funny how the battery thread started on the other list and a few days later mine dies.

Not to be a butt, but I laughed when it was mentioned above:

"I have been told that since they are a more powerful battery that they will fry the other battery that is not as powerful. I was told this by a Jeep buddy that I like to mob with. I believe him, but I am not 100% sure."

- I thought, if it was that strong, what does it do to the vehicle it's installed in? - it also seems ironic that it came from a Jeep owner (don't ask my why - it just does).

-- John