The first post in this thread is just the dialog from another thread that got us to this point. Ascinder (Beau) likes to drop bombs... military guy, don't ya know... the latest bomb he deuced is that of swapping 1-ton GM drivetrain bits into his IronMan VX...
Ascinder - I'm currently stuffing a 6.0L 364 in mine
Zeus - The GM 6.0?! That is one fantastic motor!!! What trans and t-case you hookin to, Beau?
Ascinder - NV4500 and an Np205. No doubler at this time, but eventually I'll swap the 205 with an Atlas II and that will be that. The best part was I got the earlier NV4500 which has a 6.34:1 first gear. I was originally going with an SM420 with the 7.0:1 first gear which I still have, but the extra gear up top will make cruising a lot better. Plus parts availability is nice too.
The 6.0 has now got all corvette front end accessories making it a bit shorter lengthwise which allows me to run a larger radiator. I also did this mod which gives a godawful 550 horsepower, the only difference being that I kept the fuel injection instead of going to a crabed setup!!! The torque for that motor is off the charts too. At 3,000 rpm it's putting out beyond the VX's maximum horspower. I ran the corvette batwing oil pan too which greatly increases the clearance so I can position the motor down lower which also drops the center of gravity. I also swapped the timing chain to a double row to handle the increased power. I also picked up some ceramic coated edelbrock headers instead of the cast stockers to help offset the weight penalty with the iron block. Also most of the critical fasteners have been replaced with ARP bolts which really ought to be called "just take out a second mortgage bolts". The tranny gets a new oversized 12" centerforce clutch, pressure plate, throwout bearing, master and slave cylinders and a wilwood pedal setup. To round everything out, I also have 16 of these:
They are for the dual four links that are hooking up a D60 up front with full hydraulic steering and the 14 bolt rear. I'm going with some heat treated chromoly links which turned out to be suprisingly cheap. Likely I'll be going over to FOA coilovers all around. There's still a helluva lot to do, and I'll throw out tidbits as the project continues, but let's just say this isn't something for the faint of heart or shallow of wallet
Triathlete - Ascinder...Build thread with lots of progress pics!!!!
VXorado - Thats exactly what I was thinking...If you have time, a build thread would awesome
Jolly Roger - If you build it........they will come.......
Can't wait to see the finished product so I can brag to my friends/family about the V8VX!
Ascinder - I will get started on a build thread I guess, but it's going to be slow. I take my time and really stew over my decisions, so don't hold your breath.
Triathlete - We aren't going anywhere any time soon!
Don't know the difference in cost...but, for links you might check THESE out!
Ascinder - Yeah, I looked those when I was doing my link research. Aluminum links are somewhat lighter than steel, and are basically more flexible than steel, meaning they will deflect and spring back undamaged. The vast majority of links people use are DOM tubing. While relatively cheap and plentiful, it can be somewhat heavy when compared with aluminum. The best compromise I've found is heat treated chromoly steel. It is almost as light as aluminum, and way stronger than either aluminum or DOM. It is actually comparatively cheap too. Another advantage is that if I get it from these guys, it is just a trip over the hill for me, so I don't have to pay shipping. He's a forum guy over at pirate4x4, here's a thread about these links:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=836035
As you can read in that thread, the chromo links are substantially harder, have almost twice the tensile strength and are a little cheaper($800 vs. $1168 plus shipping) The aluminum has the advantage in the corrosion department, but for those of in the arid southwest that isn't a deal breaker. Aluminum does look way cooler too though
Triathlete - Out of curiosity is full hydro legal on the road up there? I know most states it is not.
Zeus - Wow, Beau! Hmm... let me get all this out if you don't mind... by all means, question Zeus...
How much distance are you going to have for a rear drive shaft with that combo? A 92" wheelbase doesn't lend itself very well to 1-ton hardware. I would give up on the dblr right now - you don't have the wheelbase for it. You won't need a dblr with the NV4500 anyway. Consider the Stak or LoMax if you haven't already - those are the two on my list. The 4500 trans is what I have in my diesel... er, the newest diesel... the stock '94 with the 6.34. It creeps brilliantly... in low range, the brakes strain to keep the truck still. I know builders have always struggled squeezing the 4500 into any rig shorter than the Wrangler... 94" wheelbase. Your D60 is a high-pinion isn't it? The 14-bolt has a long nose on it so I assume you could and may have to tilt the drivetrain to angle the rear yoke toward the 14-bolt and use a CV-driveshaft. The D60 high-pinion should allow for that... however... as I am sure you already know... everything will be extremely tight! The 14-bolt may even run into the fuel tank and the down travel will be very limited because of the short slip spline...
I know how in-depth you can be so I hate to think you haven't already realized these issues... that's what makes me think you are planning to stretch the wheelbase and use a fuel cell. I'm also thinking this will not be seen on the streets since it will be highly illegal. Full hydraulic steering is not DOT approved, fuel cells are not either, in case you are planning a wheelbase stretch and didn't know that...
I'm not saying you can't do any of this but you are a braver man than I so I'll just have to live vicariously thru you! You have one Hell of a puzzle to figure out and I wish you the best with it... you nailed it when you said progress will be slow.Good luck and keep us posted!!!
Ascinder -
Quote from Triathlete: "Out of curiosity is full hydro legal on the road up there? I know most states it is not."
There have many here who have asked the same question a great many times. From what I have read and talked to people about, it's a bit of a grey area, yet there isn't anything specifically prohibiting you from running it, DOT legal or not. The guys here running it that have been pulled over have yet to get a ticket for it, and usually the police are more interested in checking out their rigs than writing them up. A great many officers wouldn't even know the difference between that and the steering on the lifted fullsize trucks with three steering dampers on them anyways, plus, I have a trick up my sleeve called out of sight, out of mind. I plan on running the steering reversed of how you typically set up a hydro system. My D60 is actually a drivers side drop(ford style), but the weird thing is unlike the ford style D60's most are familiar with, it's actually a low pinion setup which lets me sit the ram up above the pinion and behind the differential out of site. It will also be shrouded by the front four link brackets, rod ends, and links, not to mention the tires. Pretty slick if I do say so myself.
Quote From Zeus: "How much distance are you going to have for a rear drive shaft with that combo? A 92" wheelbase doesn't lend itself very well to 1-ton hardware. I would give up on the dblr right now - you don't have the wheelbase for it. You won't need a dblr with the NV4500 anyway. Consider the Stak or LoMax if you haven't already - those are the two on my list."
Well, seeing as how the NV4500 and the NP205 are a full 5" shorter than the VX's transmission and transfer case I'm in good shape for the driveshaft. I was planning on a high angle unit anyways, since I may get ballsy and hack out the firewall like this guy did-freakin awesome!! It would push the engine and tranny's CGs back between the wheels for awesome weight distribution and balance. I was also toying with extending the wheelbase when I link it, but as Bart and I have had many discussions about, that kind of thing must be done with a gentle touch so you don't end up making the beautiful VX into a hillbilly bumpkin mobile that looks like a pepsi can got thrown in a blender. In other words, preserving the overall look of the VX is a big consideration when deciding to hack up cladding and body panels for the sake of wheelbase.
The doubler was goin to be more of a future addon since it would be considerable additional expense. I haven't looked really hard into the STAK or lowmax that much, but that's mostly because I had found pretty much what I wanted in the Atlas II. Any reason that unit didn't make your list? I've heard they are supposed to be pretty good. The atlas would occupy the same space as the NP 205, so I'd still be looking good driveline wise.
As for the 14 bolt hitting the gas tank, that thing is getting ripped out so I have the travel you mentioned. I was thinking about a fuel cell initially, but I am going to start looking for alternatives. That was actually one of the things I have been mulling over lately. I may look into small car or truck tanks and play with alternative shapes. The VX is a great vehicle to mod specifically because no one really knows what they look like from the factory which gives a lot of leeway with the law, so if you make it look stock, who's to say it's not?(law enforcement forum members, forget you heard the last sentence)
So, as mentioned earlier in this post, the D60 being a low pinion unit will be a bit of a PITA, but it's something I'll have to work around since I got it for $200 instead of nearly $1200. Since the 60 and the 14 are both low pinion, I will likely end up with CV shafts on both. Which means more of a flat transfer case mounting setup rather than angled.
The steering was also addressed earlier in the post, and due to the nature of the drastic level of mods going on in the engine compartment, I thought it best to loose the stock steering setup. Being a four link front also brings the added issues of bumpsteer running a stock style or longarm steering setup. Full hydro makes steering nice, clean, powerful, and easy to run. Plus you can't run a panhard bar with a four link because it binds, so that's totally out of the question.
As for driving on the streets, hell yes I plan to. There really isn't anything making this rig dangerous that I can see. When the steering valve is properly set up, there's no reason to worry about hydro steering. It's every bit as safe as manual or power steering, if not more so due to the oversize components being used. One of the big hurdles I do have to jump is the engine swap. Nevada requires it to have all stock emissions equipment from the donor vehicle and the recipient vehicle, so that will be fun. Also its first SMOG check must be done at the state facility where they also inspect the engine installation. I talked to the guys there and they seem pretty savvy, but fair, and generally good natured in helping you, so I'll have to hope for the best.
Also, I really do appreciate the replys. They help give me a sounding board for all my whackjob ideas and help me consider other options or ideas I may have overlooked.
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Originally Posted by Triathlete
I would be lying if I said I hadn't looked into some pretty out there alternatives like portal axles and such. The problem with those, at least the military ones I've seen is that you have to find a way to run everything backwards.
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2010 is shaping up to be a fun year! 
I'm still cleaning stuff up - the shadow sucks! I need to find some hubs and lugs to throw in there too. Beau, is there anything specific you would like to see on this? Anything you don't like or want me to fix?
